Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 137: America Derserves Better

(+) Yeah! (+)

Dancedreamer posted...

Antia if replacing George Soros as the right's boogeyman.

Not really. He's still the one "funding them".
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Natural gerrymandering due to the kinds of people who choose to live in cities is a thing that can happen yeah. I'm also fine with it; maybe Dems need to do more to appeal to rural voters.

Just like I'd really like to see the voter surpression laws struck down as unconstitutional. Repubs seem to think they can't win without restrictive voting laws. They can, they would just need to adjust their platform.

I'm sounding like a libertarian now, and I'm ok with that. Adapt to the free market of unrestricted ungerrymandered voting, motherfuckers.
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Metal_DK posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

Metal_DK posted...

538

They gave him a far higher chance than any other mainstream news source. Just because you don't understand mathematics doesn't mean that their methods were improper.

I know they did, i just mentioned some random places that were popular during the election tbh. They didnt give him a great chance still, but yes they did give him a better one than almost everywhere else.

Nitpick something really poorly? I have a masters degree in Statistics btw. I have a few times in these topics had to explain how sample sizes work (mostly to Corrik when he mentioned something stupid about a poll involving Republicans supporting/not supporting Nazis or something i forget)

Seriously that was the shittiest "gotcha" attempt ive ever seen in these politics topics

I apologize for the attack, then. I'm personally just sick of lazy hand waving regarding "538 was wrong 111!!!" junk.
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no worries, thanks for acknowledging my post. And sorry if it was written a bit choppy.
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Liberal elite bubbles aren't the real world and never will be, and the left getting so angry every time someone mentions this means they know it's true :)

UltiXX posted...

Liberal elite bubbles aren't the real world and never will be, and the left getting so angry every time someone mentions this means they know it's true :)

Liberal elite bubbles aren't the snowflakes virtue-signaling how offended they are on behalf of our veterans over NFL players kneeling :)
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Did Antifa even bother to show up to Milo's fake free speech conference?
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https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/913791901286981632

Trump: "Ultimately the government of Puerto Rico will have to work with us" to determine how the recovery "will be funded."

Fuck this
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maybe they shouldn't have built their island isn't the middle of big water
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The Mana Sword posted...

maybe they shouldn't have built their island isn't the middle of big water

https://twitter.com/PeterAlexander/status/913791879640174593

NOW: Trump addressing challenges posed by Puerto Rico being an island: "This is an island surrounded by water. Big water. Ocean water."

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVzey3LReUU
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yes I know, that's why I made the joke
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nobody knew water could be so complicated
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Hey Ulti please learn to fucking read and stop lying about what I've said every couple of months, thanks
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so it's easy to keep hating on trump, but: he's waived the Jones Act requirements, so more shipping can happen; and he's drawing more attention to the island.

In other words, while it's late in coming, he's at the very least trying to do what he's supposed to be doing.
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dowolf posted...

charmander6000 posted...

Eddv posted...

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gerrymandering-is-on-trial/?ex_cid=538twitter

Next week political gerrymandering comes up before the Supreme Court.

A quick glance and Wisconsin doesn't look that bad, but I'm not sure what the demographics are. However, is it really that hard to make districts that stay within a county? Honestly outside of counties that require more than one district (Milwaukee in Wisconsin's case) there shouldn't be districts only taking up part of a county.

Here's a map I made for Wisconsin's 8 congressional districts (Milwaukee city and its surrounding area is the 8th one) only using Wikipedia's regions of Wisconsin page... (Each district is +/- 10% of the average population)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_Wisconsin

My map
https://imgur.com/a/AU9Vc

Current map
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin%27s_congressional_districts#/media/File:Wisconsin_Congressional_Districts,_113th_Congress.tif

In addition to what LotM posted, it's important to remember that visual fidelity (i.e. looking pretty) does not a good districting map make. It's pretty easy to draw lots of squares and rectangles that just happen to give one party 60/40 advantages all over the place.

This is something people tend to forget.

People dont live in evenly distributed chunks.

This is actually in general a failing of districting in the modern more centralized world in general.

Cities and their nearest suburbs, where the vast majority of people live, tend to be underrepresented. While exurbs and rural areas tend to be oversampled. And given the political breakdowns of those areas its pretty easy to see the problems forming in terms of Americas institutions being significantly more conservative than the American people.

And that's BEFORE voter suppression efforts
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dowolf posted...

so it's easy to keep hating on trump, but: he's waived the Jones Act requirements, so more shipping can happen; and he's drawing more attention to the island.

In other words, while it's late in coming, he's at the very least trying to do what he's supposed to be doing.

Ehhhh.... He is only doing what there has been political pressure to do.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Hey Ulti please learn to fucking read and stop lying about what I've said every couple of months, thanks

This is rich coming from some of you.
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It's cute that you think that, Corrik.
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Peace___Frog posted...

Metal_DK posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

Metal_DK posted...

538

They gave him a far higher chance than any other mainstream news source. Just because you don't understand mathematics doesn't mean that their methods were improper.

I know they did, i just mentioned some random places that were popular during the election tbh. They didnt give him a great chance still, but yes they did give him a better one than almost everywhere else.

Nitpick something really poorly? I have a masters degree in Statistics btw. I have a few times in these topics had to explain how sample sizes work (mostly to Corrik when he mentioned something stupid about a poll involving Republicans supporting/not supporting Nazis or something i forget)

Seriously that was the shittiest "gotcha" attempt ive ever seen in these politics topics

I apologize for the attack, then. I'm personally just sick of lazy hand waving regarding "538 was wrong 111!!!" junk.

Pretty sure you ultimately agreed the polling method was extremely shaky for reasons other than sample size, and we were on the same page when I said by sample size I was referring to the actual sampling in the sample size. But, hey, who knows. Maybe I misremember.
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Eddv posted...

dowolf posted...

so it's easy to keep hating on trump, but: he's waived the Jones Act requirements, so more shipping can happen; and he's drawing more attention to the island.

In other words, while it's late in coming, he's at the very least trying to do what he's supposed to be doing.

Ehhhh.... He is only doing what there has been political pressure to do.

Yes, but he's doing it. When he does what we want him to do, if we then proceed to find new, lesser reasons to hack at him anyways, it's probably going to discourage him against doing what we want again.

also it's kinda rude.
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Unlikely, but Jones could win in Alabama:
https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/913818165079142402
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2017/09/29/it-was-all-worth-it-for-this-tax-reform/
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dowolf posted...

so it's easy to keep hating on trump, but: he's waived the Jones Act requirements, so more shipping can happen; and he's drawing more attention to the island.

In other words, while it's late in coming, he's at the very least trying to do what he's supposed to be doing.

So we should grade him on a curve?

I don't care if he eventually does the right thing why the fuck did it take him so long.
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My Immortal posted...

dowolf posted...

so it's easy to keep hating on trump, but: he's waived the Jones Act requirements, so more shipping can happen; and he's drawing more attention to the island.

In other words, while it's late in coming, he's at the very least trying to do what he's supposed to be doing.

So we should grade him on a curve?

I don't care if he eventually does the right thing why the fuck did it take him so long.

Yeah. Shoulda just snapped his fingers or something and been done with it.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2017/09/29/it-was-all-worth-it-for-this-tax-reform/

Hey they found a live feed into sephgs head.
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Corrik posted...

My Immortal posted...

dowolf posted...

so it's easy to keep hating on trump, but: he's waived the Jones Act requirements, so more shipping can happen; and he's drawing more attention to the island.

In other words, while it's late in coming, he's at the very least trying to do what he's supposed to be doing.

So we should grade him on a curve?

I don't care if he eventually does the right thing why the fuck did it take him so long.

Yeah. Shoulda just snapped his fingers or something and been done with it.

The Hurricane wasnt a fucking surprise dude.

Red cross, Rockefeller and other charitable organizations have been on the ground ready to help since BEFORE the storm.

Its been NINE DAYS.

In that time Trump has had time to get into a feud with the NFL, have an existential crisis over Luther Strange, help try and fail to pass healthcare reform and roll out a new tax cut that would save he and his family BILLIONS of dollars.

Somewhere in there he could have suspended the Jones Act and sent in the army before today.
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Russia time!

http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/28/media/blacktivist-russia-facebook-twitter/index.html
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Eddv posted...

This is something people tend to forget.

People dont live in evenly distributed chunks.

This is actually in general a failing of districting in the modern more centralized world in general.

Cities and their nearest suburbs, where the vast majority of people live, tend to be underrepresented. While exurbs and rural areas tend to be oversampled. And given the political breakdowns of those areas its pretty easy to see the problems forming in terms of Americas institutions being significantly more conservative than the American people.

And that's BEFORE voter suppression efforts

There really isn't a solution to this issue. Each seat roughly represents the same amount of people. Some of these cities vote so overwhelmingly Democrat that Republicans have no chance to win and whether you win by 50.1% or 90% you still get one seat. You also can't slice up cities to win more districts as that's essentially Gerrymandering.

Changing the electoral system to something more proportional would help things.
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dowolf posted...

Eddv posted...

dowolf posted...

so it's easy to keep hating on trump, but: he's waived the Jones Act requirements, so more shipping can happen; and he's drawing more attention to the island.

In other words, while it's late in coming, he's at the very least trying to do what he's supposed to be doing.

Ehhhh.... He is only doing what there has been political pressure to do.

Yes, but he's doing it. When he does what we want him to do, if we then proceed to find new, lesser reasons to hack at him anyways, it's probably going to discourage him against doing what we want again.

also it's kinda rude.

This is stupid.

I try to refrain from name calling but....this is DISASTER RELIEF.

You should not NEED to apply political pressure to get the President to care about disaster relief. Like what in the actual fuck kind of milquetoast moderatism even is this response.
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Corrik posted...

My Immortal posted...

dowolf posted...

so it's easy to keep hating on trump, but: he's waived the Jones Act requirements, so more shipping can happen; and he's drawing more attention to the island.

In other words, while it's late in coming, he's at the very least trying to do what he's supposed to be doing.

So we should grade him on a curve?

I don't care if he eventually does the right thing why the fuck did it take him so long.

Yeah. Shoulda just snapped his fingers or something and been done with it.

He could have tried being prepared to act earlier.

You know, like all the various organizations, both charities and within his own government, were.
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charmander6000 posted...

Eddv posted...

This is something people tend to forget.

People dont live in evenly distributed chunks.

This is actually in general a failing of districting in the modern more centralized world in general.

Cities and their nearest suburbs, where the vast majority of people live, tend to be underrepresented. While exurbs and rural areas tend to be oversampled. And given the political breakdowns of those areas its pretty easy to see the problems forming in terms of Americas institutions being significantly more conservative than the American people.

And that's BEFORE voter suppression efforts

There really isn't a solution to this issue. Each seat roughly represents the same amount of people. Some of these cities vote so overwhelmingly Democrat that Republicans have no chance to win and whether you win by 50.1% or 90% you still get one seat. You also can't slice up cities to win more districts as that's essentially Gerrymandering.

Changing the electoral system to something more proportional would help things.

Its actually REALLY IMPORTANT for the health of our democracy that as many seats as possiblr be competitive every single cycle so that our representatives feel the need to actually represent the needs of their constituents.

If their seats are safe they dont need to worry about serving the needs of their district and can instead pursue getting rich off of corporate gifts directing what they should and should not do.

The only defense against mass corruption is electoral accountability and our system loses more and more of that with each passing year.
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I am not arguing that we should say that Trump did perfect -- but I do think it is a problem if you aren't willing to acknowledge when he does something good, even if by accident.
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Or else next time he'll be even slower?
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It just assigns a level of benefit of the doubt that the President doesnt deserve at all.

Even now every time he talks about Puerto Ricos debt like he plans to hold them up for what they owe wall street before he REALLY helps.

I dont think anything about this is acceptable - just because hes not ordering to let the island starve doesnt mean hes not being AWFUL.
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I'm okay being openly happy about things like Donald working on DACA with Democrats and easing shipments into Puerto Rico. It doesn't change my criticism of him being too slow and dangling these issues in front of the nation...or many of his other issues, certainly. As polarizing and shitty as I think he's gonna continue to be for our nation though, Donald's gonna land somewhere on the grayscale instead of being 100% purely on the good or bad side of the spectrum.

I agree that I don't want to grade him on a curve, but it's okay to breathe a sigh of relief when he stumbles in the right direction too.

Remember: he's chasing good press anyway.
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I acknowledge he could be doing worse, but that's about it.

He didn't meet the level of an acceptable response, and nothing he does now can change that.

Time is of the utmost essence in disaster relief.
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You know how pesky things like facts might get in the way of passing GOP legislation?

Well fuck it, who needs them!

https://twitter.com/davidckamin/status/913825150080110592
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Jakyl25 posted...

I acknowledge he could be doing worse, but that's about it.

He didn't meet the level of an acceptable response, and nothing he does now can change that.

Time is of the utmost essence in disaster relief.

100% agreed
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Does Donald waiving the Jones Act contradict the reports of that meeting where it became apparent he doesn't care about helping in a timely manner? Or is this more of a "finally" or "save himself from worse press while still not caring" kind of move? I'm not sure how quickly something like that can be waived, though I don't trust him to be necessarily quick about trying either.
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Well he said he initially didn't waive it because shipping companies didn't want him to.

Also here's some incredible gobbledygook that kinda pisses me off
https://twitter.com/salhernandez/status/913852023350718464
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what does that even mean
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Make Death Great Again?
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if you're surprised at this point by Trump's inability to word, where have you been for the past couple years?
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I'm not surprised, just upset that he even tries to spin people's deaths to make him look good
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HaRRicH posted...

Does Donald waiving the Jones Act contradict the reports of that meeting where it became apparent he doesn't care about helping in a timely manner? Or is this more of a "finally" or "save himself from worse press while still not caring" kind of move? I'm not sure how quickly something like that can be waived, though I don't trust him to be necessarily quick about trying either.

It was waived within like a DAY for Miami and Houston, which makes the delay all the more bizarre.
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https://twitter.com/adamparkhomenko/status/913555973503160320

Per Politico, The White House has launched an internal probe of private email accounts. Maybe, just maybe, they shouldn't be overseeing that

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Eddv posted...

HaRRicH posted...

Does Donald waiving the Jones Act contradict the reports of that meeting where it became apparent he doesn't care about helping in a timely manner? Or is this more of a "finally" or "save himself from worse press while still not caring" kind of move? I'm not sure how quickly something like that can be waived, though I don't trust him to be necessarily quick about trying either.

It was waived within like a DAY for Miami and Houston, which makes the delay all the more bizarre.

Would you really be shocked if it came out that he didn't realize PR was a part of the US, and it took a couple days for anyone to realize he didn't know before someone spoke up?
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Tom Price resigned
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But we'll never get the $400k in planes back.
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