Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 133: Easy D's Democratic Dalliance

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Corrik
09/16/17 9:21:11 PM
#127:


Kenri posted...
weird because the ones "affecting someone else" in this scenario are the people making the shitty anti-trans laws but you don't seem to have an issue with them

*thinking emoji*

The rules are already established. It is transgender people questioning those rules which leads to laws to cement them to clear up any confusion. Not the other way around.
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FFDragon
09/16/17 9:26:08 PM
#128:


Jakyl25 posted...
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/909161469828313088

Holy shit Violent J, that's deep


Shaggy 2 Dope delivers a plea for total inclusion: "If a ninja has a soul, then a ninja matters immensely." Then he mentions buttholes.

How is this thing not top headlines everywhere?
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FFDragon
09/16/17 9:28:06 PM
#129:


Corrik posted...
The rules are already established. It is transgender people questioning those rules which leads to laws to cement them to clear up any confusion. Not the other way around.


FFDragon posted...
I am also not an authority on trans issues, but I know (in Maryland at least) that they can get updated birth certificates reflecting their new gender.

Which... at that point, shouldn't the laws and rules they follow be the one on their birth certificate?


Are you saying that these people shouldn't follow the laws for what is on their birth certificates?
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Corrik
09/16/17 9:32:04 PM
#130:


FFDragon posted...
Corrik posted...
The rules are already established. It is transgender people questioning those rules which leads to laws to cement them to clear up any confusion. Not the other way around.


FFDragon posted...
I am also not an authority on trans issues, but I know (in Maryland at least) that they can get updated birth certificates reflecting their new gender.

Which... at that point, shouldn't the laws and rules they follow be the one on their birth certificate?


Are you saying that these people shouldn't follow the laws for what is on their birth certificates?

He is mentioning a liberal state which as you would say is "moving the goalposts".

That said, if the state populace believes that enough that they have put it into law then it should be abided by as long as the populace supports it (if not they should work to have it changed). Society shapes laws over time.

Do I agree with the law or policy or such? No. You have incontrovertible proof otherwise. But, that state has the right to do things as its society wishes.
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FFDragon
09/16/17 9:34:02 PM
#131:


he is me

and it isn't moving the goalposts to talk about the only state I have knowledge about >_>
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Kenri
09/16/17 9:35:03 PM
#132:


Corrik posted...
The rules are already established.

They were established about what people did in the bedroom as of pretty recently too?? what point are you even trying to make here
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Corrik
09/16/17 9:35:30 PM
#133:


FFDragon posted...
he is me

and it isn't moving the goalposts to talk about the only state I have knowledge about >_>

I said the state itself is moving the goalposts.
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FFDragon
09/16/17 9:36:54 PM
#134:


Oh. Well Pennsylvania allows it too, and I don't think that's a liberal state.
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Corrik
09/16/17 9:38:32 PM
#135:


Kenri posted...
Corrik posted...
The rules are already established.

They were established about what people did in the bedroom as of pretty recently too?? what point are you even trying to make here

You can't dictate what you do sexually orientationwise in the bedroom like that. I highly doubt you can pull something up that says otherwise. Most stuff is in regards to public things regarding it.
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Corrik
09/16/17 9:39:32 PM
#136:


FFDragon posted...
Oh. Well Pennsylvania allows it too, and I don't think that's a liberal state.

More liberal than not though I find that super surprising.
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ChaosTonyV4
09/16/17 9:39:53 PM
#137:


Corrik can I ask what your actual complaint is?

Are you just against the changing "established rules"?
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Kenri
09/16/17 9:41:26 PM
#138:


Corrik posted...
You can't dictate what you do sexually orientationwise in the bedroom like that.

???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States

this shit was only struck down in 2003 and it still pops up in different forms now and again
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FFDragon
09/16/17 9:46:13 PM
#139:


Corrik posted...
More liberal than not though I find that super surprising.


It is a recent-ish change apparently. Laws slowly catching up.

Pennsylvania Birth Certificate Laws

As of August 8, 2016, Pennsylvania Department of Health policy allows individuals to update the gender marker on their birth certificate with a letter from a physician stating that they have had appropriate clinical treatment for gender transition.

To apply for an amended birth certificate, applicants over the age of 18 should submit:

The birth certificate with the requested changes on the reverse side, or if you don't have the birth certificate complete a Correction Form with the requested changes listed;
An Application for Certified Copy of Birth Record;
A copy of your government-issued photo ID that verifies legal name and mailing address (listed gender does not matter), or two other forms of identification;
A check or money order for $20;
A physician's statement on office letterhead saying that the applicant has had appropriate clinical treatment for gender transition. You can use our Sample Physician Statement;

To apply for an amended birth certificate for individuals under the age of 18 a parent must complete the application, and no medical documentation is required. The parent must indicate which sex should appear on the birth certificate and sign in the presence of a notary - see the policy for specific instructions.

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Corrik
09/16/17 9:47:47 PM
#140:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
Corrik can I ask what your actual complaint is?

Are you just against the changing "established rules"?

What do you mean?
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ChaosTonyV4
09/16/17 9:50:59 PM
#141:


Corrik posted...
ChaosTonyV4 posted...
Corrik can I ask what your actual complaint is?

Are you just against the changing "established rules"?

What do you mean?


Specifically, why are you against allowing transwomen into women's restrooms and transmen into men's?
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FFDragon
09/16/17 9:51:27 PM
#142:


Oh hey I found a handy map -- Only four states do not allow you to change your birth certificate: Idaho, Kansas, Ohio, and Tennessee.
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Corrik
09/16/17 9:51:47 PM
#143:


FFDragon posted...
Corrik posted...
More liberal than not though I find that super surprising.


It is a recent-ish change apparently. Laws slowly catching up.

Pennsylvania Birth Certificate Laws

As of August 8, 2016, Pennsylvania Department of Health policy allows individuals to update the gender marker on their birth certificate with a letter from a physician stating that they have had appropriate clinical treatment for gender transition.

To apply for an amended birth certificate, applicants over the age of 18 should submit:

The birth certificate with the requested changes on the reverse side, or if you don't have the birth certificate complete a Correction Form with the requested changes listed;
An Application for Certified Copy of Birth Record;
A copy of your government-issued photo ID that verifies legal name and mailing address (listed gender does not matter), or two other forms of identification;
A check or money order for $20;
A physician's statement on office letterhead saying that the applicant has had appropriate clinical treatment for gender transition. You can use our Sample Physician Statement;

To apply for an amended birth certificate for individuals under the age of 18 a parent must complete the application, and no medical documentation is required. The parent must indicate which sex should appear on the birth certificate and sign in the presence of a notary - see the policy for specific instructions.

I think that is a stupid law and will argue against it whenever I can, but the law is the law. You can't make that law and then argue a transgender person can't use the opposite sex locker room or compete in their sports then. Very short sighted law and silly law.

Might as well have men going to the Women's Olympics now and decimating all those records and shit. Nothing is going to be safe with naive laws such as those.

Whatever. Society will have to just realize this over time and slowly phase it out. (I fear for a society that continues to shift in that direction over time).
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Corrik
09/16/17 9:54:37 PM
#144:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
Corrik posted...
ChaosTonyV4 posted...
Corrik can I ask what your actual complaint is?

Are you just against the changing "established rules"?

What do you mean?


Specifically, why are you against allowing transwomen into women's restrooms and transmen into men's?

You must not be reading if you got that. I said I could care less if the law states they can. I said they shouldn't be allowed to as they should have to use the bathroom for their dictated sex. Just like you shouldn't be allowed to change your birth certificate. It is so revisionist as fuck that its mind blowing.

Now, if a man looks so much like a woman that they can go into the restroom and no one know the difference then I mean how would someone even know unless they were flaunting their shit around? Which even if you were flaunting your shit around in the correct restroom, you are just as likely to offend someone as otherwise.
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ChaosTonyV4
09/16/17 9:56:28 PM
#145:


No dude, you must not be reading because I didn't ask you anything about the law.

I asked specifically why are you against it.
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Paratroopa1
09/16/17 9:57:43 PM
#146:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
No dude, you must not be reading because I didn't ask you anything about the law.

I asked specifically why are you against it.

I don't think you understand corrik
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FFDragon
09/16/17 9:58:01 PM
#147:


Well in 46/50 states (well 45 since while it is legal in Texas they apparently make it a real hassle) they can get their dictated sex to match their identity and therefore comply with laws.
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Kenri
09/16/17 9:58:58 PM
#148:


idk if it's just me but the phrase "dictated sex" just sounds authoritarian as all fuck

some real nightmare shit
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FFDragon
09/16/17 9:59:52 PM
#149:


I'm assuming he's using that interchangeably with 'legally recognized sex.' Which is what birth certificates reflect.
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Corrik
09/16/17 10:00:44 PM
#150:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
No dude, you must not be reading because I didn't ask you anything about the law.

I asked specifically why are you against it.

For the 4th time. I could care less personally. If the law allows them to, then so be it. They shouldn't be based upon biological nature which is clearly, incontrovertibly shown at birth and the fact that bathrooms clearly dictate which sex they are to be used by. But, I am not going to be upset it they are allowed to.

The simplest solution is to have a men's room, a women's room, and a family/unisex room.
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Not_an_Owl
09/16/17 11:15:54 PM
#151:


Corrik posted...
I think that is a stupid law and will argue against it whenever I can, but the law is the law. You can't make that law and then argue a transgender person can't use the opposite sex locker room or compete in their sports then. Very short sighted law and silly law.

Might as well have men going to the Women's Olympics now and decimating all those records and shit. Nothing is going to be safe with naive laws such as those.

Whatever. Society will have to just realize this over time and slowly phase it out. (I fear for a society that continues to shift in that direction over time).

holy shit

you guys

we found the one issue upon which corrik's default stance is not "fuck you, obey the law"
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TheRock1525
09/16/17 11:22:18 PM
#152:


I'd like to point out a transgender woman actually competes in UFC and lost once. They had rules and regulations on what she had to do before she could compete.
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TheRock1525
09/17/17 12:28:05 AM
#153:


So first amendment and boobs guy is a complete piece of shit.

Wrote a great book with some excerpts like:

"Libraries and hospitals are the two hardest places to pick up chicks. This is because women are usually sober and/or dying. At a library, wait in the self-help aisle until a hot chick walks by and then cry while you read some book called What She Really Means: Understanding Women and Their Mangled Vaginas. At a hospital, go straight for the rape victims and offer your protection. Cha-ching."

"Age of consent is only an issue if you actually have sex. Looking is no crime."

"If you remember nothing else from this book, make this phrase your credo: All women are sluts, some just don’t know it yet."

"A woman’s self-esteem is like a roller coaster: the faster it drops, the more fun you have."

Of course he claims it's "satire" so I guess that makes it ok. Good job screening this guy, CNN.
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Kenri
09/17/17 12:38:24 AM
#154:


TheRock1525 posted...
"Age of consent is only an issue if you actually have sex. Looking is no crime."

pro-boob guy being a pedophile is the most shocking plot twist of the year
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MoogleKupo141
09/17/17 1:37:10 AM
#155:


wait

are there even laws enforcing bathroom divides? I thought North Carolina had to specifically introduce a bill to keep trans people out of the other bathroom. That would suggest it was legal for trans people to use the bathroom they wanted to use before that bill.

Corrik should be pro-trans people in whatever bathroom in that case.
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trdl23
09/17/17 1:51:30 AM
#156:


Kenri posted...
TheRock1525 posted...
"Age of consent is only an issue if you actually have sex. Looking is no crime."

pro-boob guy being a pedophile is the most shocking plot twist of the year

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or highlighting the irony.
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Kenri
09/17/17 1:54:59 AM
#157:


trdl23 posted...
Kenri posted...
TheRock1525 posted...
"Age of consent is only an issue if you actually have sex. Looking is no crime."

pro-boob guy being a pedophile is the most shocking plot twist of the year

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or highlighting the irony.

The latter though honestly it was a tough call on my end too.
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MoogleKupo141
09/17/17 1:56:53 AM
#158:


who is this boobs man we're discussing
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Eddv
09/17/17 3:06:00 AM
#159:


MoogleKupo141 posted...
wait

are there even laws enforcing bathroom divides? I thought North Carolina had to specifically introduce a bill to keep trans people out of the other bathroom. That would suggest it was legal for trans people to use the bathroom they wanted to use before that bill.

Corrik should be pro-trans people in whatever bathroom in that case.


Its an unwritten rule - though a male barging into a women's restroom might be charged with sexual harassment under the right circumstances (i e hes being a peeping tom or something)

North Carolina found itself in this position because the City of Charlotte passed an ordinance affirming that transgender people could not be discriminated against, arrested, or harassed for using the bathroom of their choice in public buildings.

The state then said that it was now state law that whatever your BIOLOGICAL sex was determined whuch restroom you could use. It also barred any city in the state from passing an ordinance that would effect local employment laws to blanket ban any sort of workaround measure.
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UltiXX
09/17/17 8:14:59 AM
#160:


You guys will never believe this, but there are NYT authors hating on a kid mowing lawns.

It's almost like I've been right the entire time or something.
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UltiXX
09/17/17 8:17:08 AM
#161:


trdl23 posted...
Kenri posted...
TheRock1525 posted...
"Age of consent is only an issue if you actually have sex. Looking is no crime."

pro-boob guy being a pedophile is the most shocking plot twist of the year

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or highlighting the irony.

Are democrats still pretending to be offended over that interview? These are the same people who marched by the millions wearing vag outfits and proving to the world why no one else takes them seriously.

Liberals do not care what gets said, only who says it.
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LapisLazuli
09/17/17 9:25:53 AM
#162:


You having fun?
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UltiXX
09/17/17 9:44:05 AM
#163:


https://twitter.com/greenhousenyt/status/908685719178301440

I did chores as a child. They included yardwork and mowing lawns for myself and neighbors, and I eventually bought a Super Nintendo with the money I made.

I thought I was learning work ethic and the value of money but APPARENTLY NOT SOMEONE ARREST MY FAMILY OH THE HORROR
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UltiXX
09/17/17 10:00:39 AM
#164:


Guys, you might get hurt at some point so you should never do anything.
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kevwaffles
09/17/17 10:12:57 AM
#165:


UltiXX posted...
You guys will never believe this

You pretty much didn't need to write anything after this.
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Shaduln
09/17/17 11:47:10 AM
#166:


Corrik posted...
ChaosTonyV4 posted...
No dude, you must not be reading because I didn't ask you anything about the law.

I asked specifically why are you against it.

For the 4th time. I could care less personally. If the law allows them to, then so be it. They shouldn't be based upon biological nature which is clearly, incontrovertibly shown at birth and the fact that bathrooms clearly dictate which sex they are to be used by. But, I am not going to be upset it they are allowed to.

The simplest solution is to have a men's room, a women's room, and a family/unisex room.

So you care some about it if you could care less.
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Corrik
09/17/17 12:06:48 PM
#167:


Shaduln posted...
Corrik posted...
ChaosTonyV4 posted...
No dude, you must not be reading because I didn't ask you anything about the law.

I asked specifically why are you against it.

For the 4th time. I could care less personally. If the law allows them to, then so be it. They shouldn't be based upon biological nature which is clearly, incontrovertibly shown at birth and the fact that bathrooms clearly dictate which sex they are to be used by. But, I am not going to be upset it they are allowed to.

The simplest solution is to have a men's room, a women's room, and a family/unisex room.

So you care some about it if you could care less.

... lol
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trdl23
09/17/17 12:13:07 PM
#168:


Corrik posted...
Shaduln posted...
Corrik posted...
ChaosTonyV4 posted...
No dude, you must not be reading because I didn't ask you anything about the law.

I asked specifically why are you against it.

For the 4th time. I could care less personally. If the law allows them to, then so be it. They shouldn't be based upon biological nature which is clearly, incontrovertibly shown at birth and the fact that bathrooms clearly dictate which sex they are to be used by. But, I am not going to be upset it they are allowed to.

The simplest solution is to have a men's room, a women's room, and a family/unisex room.

So you care some about it if you could care less.

... lol

For once the "lol" response from Corrik is 100% warranted.
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charmander6000
09/17/17 12:16:38 PM
#169:


Seems like you guys had quite a discussion yesterday.

I can also confirm that outside of maybe a few recent changes in some places that in the US there is no gender/sex requirement of using a specific washroom. It's why no woman using the men's washroom has ever been arrested despite the trope of them using it over a crowded women's washroom.
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Kinglicious
09/17/17 12:24:50 PM
#170:


The general social rule has been women can use the men's room sometimes but unless it's a major emergency or maybe something like a father with a scared daughter the women's room is off limits.

That's also why you'll see a large number of women who oppose trans bathrooms - most of them are male to female and it's a lot harder for a guy to pass as a girl over a girl passing as a guy.
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MoogleKupo141
09/17/17 12:27:02 PM
#171:


Donald Trump went on a retweet spree

here's a gif that makes it look like he's knocking Hillary out with a golf ball

https://twitter.com/fuctupmind/status/908163011793358848
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Corrik
09/17/17 12:31:39 PM
#172:


charmander6000 posted...
Seems like you guys had quite a discussion yesterday.

I can also confirm that outside of maybe a few recent changes in some places that in the US there is no gender/sex requirement of using a specific washroom. It's why no woman using the men's washroom has ever been arrested despite the trope of them using it over a crowded women's washroom.

This is relatively untrue.

If your little boy/older boy goes into the girls restroom at school, it is likely your son is getting suspended.

There are times where someone breaks the rule and uses the opposing restroom because it is an emergency / mostly because little kids who can't go alone (which is why the family restrooms have popped up much more frequently lately in addition to men and women rooms).

If you are a man and you go into the womens restroom with a bunch of women in it and with no viable reason for not using the mens room, you are likely getting tossed from the establishment or worse.
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charmander6000
09/17/17 12:34:41 PM
#173:


What you said are not laws, Corrik, just social convention.
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Corrik
09/17/17 12:41:58 PM
#174:


charmander6000 posted...
What you said are not laws, Corrik, just social convention.

Where did I say it was a law? It is an understood thing that people didn't think were necessary to be laws because it was pretty common sense.

You said it's all hunky dorry to walk into any bathroom you want. I provided examples of how it is not and consequences that can result from it.
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StealThisSheen
09/17/17 12:48:34 PM
#175:


Corrik posted...
charmander6000 posted...
What you said are not laws, Corrik, just social convention.

Where did I say it was a law? It is an understood thing that people didn't think were necessary to be laws because it was pretty common sense.

You said it's all hunky dorry to walk into any bathroom you want. I provided examples of how it is not and consequences that can result from it.


For somebody who has had their entire argument for months be "Well, if it's the law, it's the law," you sure don't seem to care that there aren't any laws suddenly.
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UltiXX
09/17/17 12:49:47 PM
#176:


I have never understood caring about where someone pees.
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