Board 8 > Survivor HHH Discussion Topic 1: IT'S TIME TO PLAY THE GAME! (Also, BB19/TAR30)

(+) Yeah! (+)

http://ew.com/tv/2017/09/21/big-brother-finale-julie-chen-paul-josh/

This just came up in my phone sidebar, so I assume something interesting happened in the finale.
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The guy who controlled the entire game lost because of bad jury management.

Ironically, the same thing happened in Survivor 19.
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Paul's post regarding the internet hate: https://www.instagram.com/p/BZUQq8nHpAI

In some fairness to him, people absolutely blew the "black face" thing out of proportions.
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10000 comments. Some people need more things to do.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

10000 comments. Some people need more things to do.

Yeah like posting comments on GameFAQs instead.
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I mean we're having a conversation as a group. As opposed to those people commenting on Paul's status either belittling him or attempting to praise him. Or begging him for a follow.
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Just watched it. I Goddamn cheered holy hell I didn't expect that. Also Cody's reaction to winning fan favorite might just be the most Cody thing ever.

Josh really nailed those jury questions. I was expecting a Paul/Josh final 2 since like week 4, but much in the same way that I was expecting a Rob/Phillip final 2 since like episode 4, except that Paul got beat by his own fucking goat.


Also, Paul is definitely the Russell of Big Brother as opposed to the Amanda. Not only was Paul's role much closer to Russell's, but the jury's reaction was much closer to Russell's as well.

The anomaly though is Paul's loss in 18, where the jury wasn't actively disgusted at Paul. Nicole just had a bigger web of friends and frankly the fact that she ONLY won by one vote surprised me.

eaedwards6400 posted...

10000 comments. Some people need more things to do.

...it's not like it's the same person.

judgmental eaed not the best look
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I just never got that commenting on someone's post thing. They aren't going to respond to you
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mnkboy907 posted...

Paul's post regarding the internet hate: https://www.instagram.com/p/BZUQq8nHpAI

In some fairness to him, people absolutely blew the "black face" thing out of proportions.

read this and watched Paul's Rob Cesternino interview....

I really don't think Paul is going to understand why he lost and what he did wrong

He genuinely doesn't believe he was in any way involved in "bullying". I'm not sure he's capable of reflecting that way
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haha the koolaid clip

eaedwards6400 posted...

10000 comments. Some people need more things to do.

to be fair, some of us just watched a season of paul which lasted far longer than the time it takes to make a comment
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The reason people are comparing Paul more to Amanda is because Amanda lost at the FTC both times. That said, her Micronesia FTC isn't as bad as some people say it was. It's fresh in my head so I can evidence that... while she completely flubbed Cirie's question (should have said "You deserved to sit here more than Parvati. That's why I voted you out."), she did a good job with Erik (that is the ONLY time you say "I'm sorry" to a juror - if a misunderstanding left their feelings hurt) and didn't flub Alexis and Catalie (who both were voting for Parv regardless). Ozzy missed a big opportunity to do the Half-Murphy for his girlfriend, though. I think his speech hurt her more than helped with swing votes Jason and Eliza.

Paul's FTC was awful in that he outright lied to jurors that knew the truth - a stark contrast to Amanda's unselfish honesty (you need selfish honesty at the FTC, stated while sucking the jury's kneecaps) - and that he thought of it as his coronation party. Hantz was much the same way. He declared himself a god at the Samoa FTC and somehow expected that to earn the jury's respect. They instead laughed at him.

Paul was more like Hantz in that he played a brilliant strategic game but forgot that the social game comes first. The jury is comprised of human beings with human emotion. The last thing a jury wants is to be treated with disrespect. Both Paul and Hantz did not respect their juries and treated them like they were stupid and inferior. Outright lying in your goodbye messages is disrespectful to the jury's intelligence. It's no different than Hantz saying "I'm better than you, and you know it."

Hantz still lacks the self-awareness as to why he lost twice, even after he's had over seven years to reflect. Paul will suffer a similar fate, even if he is told time and time again that lying to the jury is not going to earn their votes. Paul played a masterful strategic game but could not own up to it. His goodbye messages left the jury shaking their heads. Lying that you were loyal to them only makes them feel even more betrayed. This makes him more like Hantz in that he lacks understanding of the human social psyche, a contrast to Amanda's inability to sell herself to a jury. All three lack understanding of what a jury wants to hear, but one is too honest/sobby and two are too narcissistic.
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Yeah. Regardless of how played or what you had to do to get to the end, jury time is when you lay it all out on the table, and the best person wins. If you won't even give the jury the respect of explaining your process, you're not the best person. This is something that in some cases requires experience. Considering filming dates relative to finales when it comes to china/Micronesia and samoa/hvv, Paul is arguably worse than Amanda and Russell because he had a year to evaluate himself and the experience of last year's finale. They didn't have that. In order to truly be a veteran, there are lessons one must learn in the process. The lesson of jury management requires one to reach the end. Paul was primed to learn this lesson and he failed.
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I feel like at the very least these last two seasons should dissuade future newbies (or at least next year's newbies) from trying to play like Paul.
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Amanda at least learned between China and Micronesia. Her Micronesia performance was leagues better than the disastrous finish she had in China, although it was nothing spectacular. What was reminiscent of her China disaster was the sob story she spun at the F3; had she shown confidence there and answered Cirie's FTC question correctly, she could have (and probably would have) won the game. Instead, she discredited herself to the jury and made it hard for them to take her seriously the next night. There's also this notable tidbit: After HvV, Amanda said something pretty important, in that serving on a jury first would have helped her present herself way better at the FTC.

Hantz and Paul would not have learned that even if serving on a jury. Ego is the issue. Their superiority complex makes them think they deserve the win unquestionably, which increases the bitterness level of a jury substantially. A jury will NOT give a large sum of money to someone who treats them like yesterday's garbage. How can you expect a jury to respect you if you don't respect them? Amanda lacked awareness of how the jury would perceive her emotions. Hantz and Paul both lacked respect for their fellow players and still do not understand that to get respect, you have to give it first. Amanda could win Survivor if she were to return. Hatntz and Paul will never win their respective games without changing who they are as a person.
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Yeah, that is a fair assessment. Amanda also didn't do anything within the game that I can recall that I would consider disrespectful of other players. No dumping out water, no sock burning, no making pointless f3 deals and then blindsiding them, no getting buddies to bully and antagonize others with pots and pans and whatever else lol
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mnkboy907 posted...

I feel like at the very least these last two seasons should dissuade future newbies (or at least next year's newbies) from trying to play like Paul.

alternatively, they play like paul because they saw how he soaked up all the airtime
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Rob was so facetious when he interviewed Raven. It was almost cruel. Got a good amount of chuckles though.
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Tag.
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Australian Survivor Episode 19

Not sure that was a smart vote out by Luke/Jericho/Sarah, as it could have easily gone wrong if Ziggy had voted for Sarah and tied it up, instead of her voting for Lochie. It also pissed Michelle off by leaving her out, as she no longer trusts the other 3 that were in her alliance (based on the preview), and there's enough people left for that choice to really screw them over. Guess we will see if it was the right move or not in the next few episodes. Sad to see Tessa go, as I liked her, but she was never likely to win anyway.

I had forgotten about Luke's "Spy Shack" - good to see it return this episode. Thought he was going to get busted, as there was obviously a cameraman filming him while the others were talking, but he didn't.

I love the challenge they chose to use on a really windy day too. Guess they didn't want it to be drawn out too long. Still lasted longer than I thought it would have.
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Though I didn't keep a full edgic chart for BB19 (that takes some dedication given the number of episodes), these would be my final ratings for everybody:

Josh - CPN
Paul - CPN
Christmas - CPP
Kevin - MORM
Alex - CPN
Raven - MORM
Jason - CPM
Matt - MOR
Mark - CPP
Elena - MORN
Cody - OTTN
Jessica - CPM
Ramses - UTR
Dominique - MORN
Jillian - UTR
Megan - OTTM
Cameron - MORN

Is that considering live feeds or just the episodes?
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Squirrelgate posted...

Is that considering live feeds or just the episodes?

Episodes

I'd change Josh and Alex to CPM, Matt and Raven to MORN, and Mark and Elena to MORP then. Otherwise it looks pretty good.
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I don't know letter standings for Big Brother edgic
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eaedwards6400 posted...

I don't know letter standings for Big Brother edgic

Same as Survivor.
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Australian Survivor Episode 19
Another crazy Tribal! That said, I too question the move Luke and Jericho made. Luke did use the information that Tessa was feeding Ziggy, that Jericho should go next... but he took it too seriously. Chances are Tessa was lying to Ziggy to save face, just like she lied to Locky that she'd vote Sarah. Locky also did something dumb there in telling Tessa who to vote for. Locky, you're in the minority. If you try to call the shots for the vote you're trying to flip over, they will NEVER EVER flip to your side! If he'd asked Tessa who she'd like to see gone, he might've been able to convince her.

Sarah also should have told Michelle at Tribal Council to vote for Tessa. "Luke, Jericho, and myself decided that just 15 minutes before leaving. Trust me." She does that, she doesn't infuriate her ally while ensuring that she survives that vote.

Sucks to see Tessa go, since she was a delightful scrappy underdog who was so easy to root for. If I had to guess, Michelle will rally everyone else to take out Luke or Jericho in the next episode... but then everyone will distrust her in the episode following and get rid of her. Current boot order prediction is Luke, Michelle, Ziggy (too big a threat), Locky (threat), Pete (too many friends), with a final three of Sarah, Jericho, and goat Tara.

But... is it a final two with, as Nick Iadanza suggested on Know-It-Oz, the horrible "vote off a juror" twist? There are eight people and seven episodes left. It could be the next five are boot episodes, then a final three twist, then a finale like last year's (with the same final immunity challenge, because that worked so brilliantly last year).

I'll watch tomorrow's tomorrow!
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http://robhasawebsite.com/rhap-bb-survivor-35-preseason-podcast/

This podcast was great, I usually don't listen to the main RHAP unless it has a guest I really like but I'll definitely be tuning into this every week.
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Haven't listened but I like both Mike Bloom and Liana so I will definitely follow
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

Australian Survivor Episode 19
But... is it a final two with, as Nick Iadanza suggested on Know-It-Oz, the horrible "vote off a juror" twist? There are eight people and seven episodes left. It could be the next five are boot episodes, then a final three twist, then a finale like last year's (with the same final immunity challenge, because that worked so brilliantly last year).

They will probably just have another extended two part episode where there's no TC in the first one, like they did when there were 6 or 7 left last series. Hope not, as that kinda sucked, but I still think it will be a final 3. I believe it has been mentioned a couple of times by various tribe members about taking someone to the final 3 - guess they must be told some basic stuff that will happen like that.
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How much of the latest Survivor AUS spoils the previous season?

I've heard the latest season is really good.
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Ringworm posted...

They will probably just have another extended two part episode where there's no TC in the first one, like they did when there were 6 or 7 left last series. Hope not, as that kinda sucked, but I still think it will be a final 3. I believe it has been mentioned a couple of times by various tribe members about taking someone to the final 3 - guess they must be told some basic stuff that will happen like that.

I really hated that last year, too. (Spoilers are for last year) What a waste of a non-elimination. If you're going to be forced to have such episodes per Australian TV standards, at least make them entertaining! Only the "Oh sorry guys, I forgot, you weren't voting people out of the game tonight. You were voting them to join the other tribe." thing was any good last year. The kidnapping was stupid and anti-climactic, ending an episode in the middle of a scene was too bewildering, and that spa day reward was pointless. Now, this year they've done a much better job, with the mutiny being more dramatic - though the Tribal at which it occurred was INSANE - and the Super Idol being an interesting climax that was kind of refreshing, in a way. Only the "surprise non-elimination swap vote-out" was a dud, because it came without warning and wasn't exactly good for the integrity of the game... plus it kept Tara around, who SUCKS >_>

Peridiam posted...

How much of the latest Survivor AUS spoils the previous season?

Aside from the first minute spoiling the winner, there's been nothing to my knowledge. Keep in mind I went into the last year's season knowing the winner and I do think that affected my ultimate enjoyment of it.
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Underleveled posted...

Cody - OTTN

*snorts out water*

EDIT: Read 'N' as 'Neutral' not 'Negative'
Not as fun when read correctly.
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

Ringworm posted...

They will probably just have another extended two part episode where there's no TC in the first one, like they did when there were 6 or 7 left last series. Hope not, as that kinda sucked, but I still think it will be a final 3. I believe it has been mentioned a couple of times by various tribe members about taking someone to the final 3 - guess they must be told some basic stuff that will happen like that.

I really hated that last year, too. (Spoilers are for last year) What a waste of a non-elimination. If you're going to be forced to have such episodes per Australian TV standards, at least make them entertaining! Only the "Oh sorry guys, I forgot, you weren't voting people out of the game tonight. You were voting them to join the other tribe." thing was any good last year. The kidnapping was stupid and anti-climactic, ending an episode in the middle of a scene was too bewildering, and that spa day reward was pointless. Now, this year they've done a much better job, with the mutiny being more dramatic - though the Tribal at which it occurred was INSANE - and the Super Idol being an interesting climax that was kind of refreshing, in a way. Only the "surprise non-elimination swap vote-out" was a dud, because it came without warning and wasn't exactly good for the integrity of the game... plus it kept Tara around, who SUCKS >_>

Peridiam posted...

How much of the latest Survivor AUS spoils the previous season?

Aside from the first minute spoiling the winner, there's been nothing to my knowledge. Keep in mind I went into the last year's season knowing the winner and I do think that affected my ultimate enjoyment of it.

but in fairness the tara staying twist gave us the all time great moment of I'M SORRY ANNELIESE

but yes tara staying
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Australian Survivor Episode 20.

No need to talk about that elimination - obvious as anything who was going. As for Ziggy though - what was she thinking? Least she didn't go home with her idol I guess...

Animal charades was a great challenge idea - highlight of the episode for sure. Some of those attempts were pathetic - looking at you in particular Tara.

This is another 3 episode week for those trying to keep up, so still one more to go. Also, it looks like there won't be a Sunday night episode as usual next week, I think as it would clash with a rugby grand final here in Australia.
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Ringworm posted...

Australian Survivor Episode 20.

No need to talk about that elimination - obvious as anything who was going. As for Ziggy though - what was she thinking? Least she didn't go home with her idol I guess...

Animal charades was a great challenge idea - highlight of the episode for sure. Some of those attempts were pathetic - looking at you in particular Tara.

This is another 3 episode week for those trying to keep up, so still one more to go. Also, it looks like there won't be a Sunday night episode as usual next week, I think as it would clash with a rugby grand final here in Australia.

Charades was top 3 for best reward challenge ever, I swear, lol.

As for the rest of the episode? Yeah, still fuck you, Michelle. I thought I'd finally had the luxury of seeing her get off my screen, but sadly no such luck.

I'm watching the BB finale for the hell of it. At the jury session...where the hell did over the top troll Matt come from?
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Matt lost his shit at Jason when he got left on thr block during Jason Hoh and then Matt and Raven became really hostile with Mark in the jury house when everyone said they were all being played by Paul, because Matt and Raven were still super loyal to Paul and genuinely believed they were his real alliance.

Basically he got very confrontational for some reason after realizing he'd be evicted.

I'd highly recommend those two moments as highlights to go watch.
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Alternatively don't watch them because he's soooo obnoxious. It's a miracle he stayed out of all the fighting until then.
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Jason in exit press "that was my biggest regret? I could care less about that!!"
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Matt was one of the worst casting choices in a long while. Truly a worthless houseguest in just about every way.
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so bad that we lost alex kidwell
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GTM posted...

so bad that we lost alex kidwell

What did happen to Alex Kidwell?
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some fiasco at a reality event

i think he was accused of groping someone or being... weird to a few girls. overly weird.

apparently it was bad enough that rob decided to let him go/he quit. i suspect something did happen otherwise he probably wouldn't be out.
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yikes
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ahhh theres a full throttle topic on the bootlist
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even though i wouldn't look, he's never right.
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so whos everyones favourites for this survivor. i listened to like 30 seconds of everybodys' RHAP preseason interview and these are my extremely shallow impressions based on just a brief moment of hearing them talk. top 5 go.


1. Cole
2. Simone with an S
...
3. Desi
...
...
...
4. Rourk
...
5. that weasel guy


also i've never watched survivor before
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top 5 favorites

5. Joe
Simone
Chrissy
Roark
1. Desi

I talk about them
Joe is the only guy I like from the preseason. I know it will change once the season starts and some guys get some more attention, and also Joe's getting voted out early anyways cause he looks, walks, and talks like Tony.

Simone sounds like she'll be fun TV and a total fake bitch, and I will love it. She was throwing shade at fan favorite Sierra Dawn Thomas! I dont think she wins cause she can't hold back what she says though.

Chrissy sounded like Denise to me and she sounded like she knows her stuff, so I think she has upside (Katrina said she was most like Denise in her bio but from the interviews, she felt Debbie-ish to me).

Roark is Sophie, who I like decently enough on her season and loved her afterwards, and Courtney, who I love for her snarkiness. Also RHAP and all that. I want to like Ryan but he seems very... poor man's Cochran? to me.

Desi my #1, shes the total package. Also, GTM falling in love, etc. sorry Alina. I don't have strong faith in her winning though
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why are we spoilering names for players when the season starts tomorrow
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