Board 8 > Game of Thrones Season 7 - Says here 'Ragger' had 'Anal'... (SPOILERS)

(+) Yeah! (+)

as usual, no leaked spoilers
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Tag.
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Revisiting the scene from the topic title.

While it's understandable that no one actually bothered to read the book that had the whole (Okay I'm tagging this because it's technically still conjecture because Gilly was cut off but come on now) "Jon is a trueborn Targaryen" given that Gilly points out the guy wrote down literally everything and who wants to deal with that.

but why didn't the maester tell anyone

seems like a big deal

or did he and the citadel is just keeping it to themselves for laughs
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I couldn't help but notice they were trying harder to explain that lots of time has passed between events. Like Sam saying Bran survived past the wall for years.
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Rhaegar and Lyanna getting married does not mean there was a birth certificate for "Jon Targaryen". Remember, only Howland and Ned (and Bran) know Jon is Lyanna's son.

How angry would people be if Sandor made a pitstop at Winterfell when bringing back the wight, gets killed by Arya and then Cleganebowl happens as AryaSandor?
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RyoCaliente posted...

Rhaegar and Lyanna getting married does not mean there was a birth certificate for "Jon Targaryen". Remember, only Howland and Ned (and Bran) know Jon is Lyanna's son.

I didn't forget. Still, the annulment and remarriage of the Crown Prince of Westeros to the woman who was essentially the cause of the Rebellion seems like a notable event nonetheless. Even without knowing about Jon and the implications of that, the marriage itself feels like the kind of thing worth mentioning!
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It's probably unknown by the maesters given that it's in a historical record of stair counting and poops. Maybe Sam's mentor knew and was slow-rolling him on it by making him transcribe it all, but it seems unlikely.
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The Citadel is explicitly apolitical. Why would they bring this up to anyone?
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That's why I said it's understandable that they didn't get it from the book.

but the guy himself

why would he not tell anyone

if he wanted to keep it secret why would he have even written it down at all

unless he wanted to keep it secret but was DRIVEN by the DUTY OF THE MAESTER to record it so he elaborately constructed a bunch of nonsense information to dissuade anyone from actually reading his records so he could both technically record it but have no one learn it
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SeabassDebeste posted...

The Citadel is explicitly apolitical. Why would they bring this up to anyone?

Because it's a matter of historical fact.

I'm not saying they go whisper to the Starks or Martells that this went down to stir something up. Simply accept and state it as a matter of fact.
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Who are they supposed to state this to? The Citadel doesn't exactly publish information. AFAIK, they didn't even say anything about Joffrey and Margaery's marriage. The only time they seem to make announcements is to name the changing of the seasons.

The record of the annulment is right there for anyone who wants to read it, but the Citadel isn't going to send a raven to let anyone know...
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Hmm, thinking some more, I guess he could have recorded it in his book, but then died shortly after and the book was sent to the Citadel.

It feels kinda convenient, but I could buy it.
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RyoCaliente posted...

Rhaegar and Lyanna getting married does not mean there was a birth certificate for "Jon Targaryen". Remember, only Howland and Ned (and Bran) know Jon is Lyanna's son.

How angry would people be if Sandor made a pitstop at Winterfell when bringing back the wight, gets killed by Arya and then Cleganebowl happens as AryaSandor?

If the show (or books for that matter) want it to be public knowledge that Jon is legitimate, they will find a way.
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No, but they also seem to keep records of family lines and such and these books are made available (See: The book Ned requests and learns about Joffrey and co not being Baratheons)

They may not announce it, but I would think they'd just incorporate this into their work, so like... the next time some requests a family tree/they publish a family tree book thing it's just sitting right there for anyone to see.
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Agreed, but the Targaryen Dynasty ended shortly afterward. Who's going to request the Targaryen family tree, especially when that change produces no known heirs?

(Also, it occurs to me that a High Septon wrote that book and that they've got a *lot* of records - certainly possible no maester had ever read that entry.)
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SeabassDebeste posted...

Who's going to request the Targaryen family tree, especially when that change produces no known heirs?

The Martell or Stark ones would raise flags. The Stark one in particular would give it away!

And oh, was it a High Septon who wrote the book? My mistake.
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But it's the Targaryen family tree, and without any more of them in Westeros, who would've been interested enough to look into Rhaegar's marriage records or whatever to discover something was weird?
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4 people arrested in India for leaking GoT episode. Good.

mnkboy907 posted...

But it's the Targaryen family tree, and without any more of them in Westeros, who would've been interested enough to look into Rhaegar's marriage records or whatever to discover something was weird?

Again, it would show up in the Stark one attached to Lyanna. Also, the Martell one would (probably?) show the annulment of the marriage on Elia's end, which would raise the question of "wtf" to everyone else.
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Yes, I was tying that up while those other two posts were made. But as was said, that tidbit by itself still wouldn't matter much as there would be no record of a baby being produced. If like Ned had come across that info, he'd obviously know what it meant, but he just had to go and get himself killed so oops.
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Yeah, I think that being a septon explains how all the data in there was about King's Landing.

We can all become slavering, murderous imbeciles in thrall to evil incarnate as long as we can have access to the full records of High Septon Maynard's 15,782 shits!
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SeabassDebeste posted...

Yeah, I think that being a septon explains how all the data in there was about King's Landing.

We can all become slavering, murderous imbeciles in thrall to evil incarnate as long as we can have access to the full records of High Septon Maynard's 15,782 shits!

Steps.

Bless Gilly.
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Gilly was a huge bro this episode.
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There would be no reason for the Maester to be sworn to secrecy because Rhaegar assumed he would win the war I imagine. If he's still the crown prince of Westeros there is no need for subterfuge.

We can probably assume the Maester just died.
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Gilly finished second in episode MVP voting to Davos.
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xp1337 posted...

Gilly finished second in episode MVP voting to Davos.

Has Davos been back-to-back MVP?
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SeabassDebeste posted...

xp1337 posted...

Gilly finished second in episode MVP voting to Davos.

Has Davos been back-to-back MVP?

I was thinking about that but can't be bothered to remember.

Probably. I mean, he's at the least a strong contender every week.
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I legitimately yelled at the TV when Sam cut off Gilly

Haven't been that frustrated with a character in a long time
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Anyway, I think I've been pretty critical of this episode, but I loved this quiet moment from Beric, and don't think it's been brought up yet:

"Here we all are, at the edge of the world, at the same moment, heading in the same direction, for the same reason."

And of course, the Hound interrupting him: "For fuck's sake, will you shut your hole?"

Trailer spoilers: He's also got the most fantastic trailer voiceover... Dude's got Jorah-tier delivery.
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Gilly's pretty likable when she's not being a bitch to Sam.
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Beric has low-key been one of my favorite members of the cast. Though I think I touched on that in Episode 1 (or 2, whenever the Brotherhood showed up earlier.)

And yeah, the trailer part you mentioned was great.
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tag
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I love both incarnations of Beric. Show Beric is one of my favorite show changes.
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I have nowhere else to complain about this, but Gendry getting praised for crushing two unsavory but harmless Gold Cloaks' skulls was awful. That's exactly the type of violence that isn't as unambiguous and fist-pumping as the show loves to portray. Hated it. And hated Tyrion for forcing Gendry's hand by walking right in front of them in open daylight, after having the jump on those guards.
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Yeah, Tyrion should've spotted the guards way before getting that close.
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they just wanted to show how strong gendry had gotten after rowing for 4 years straight
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My personal least favorite part of the episode (and this is probably a book gripe) is how quick the northerners were to abandon Jon.

"KINGINDANORF KINGINDANORF KINGINDA...hey pretty lady, you want to be queenindanorf?"

Something the northerners were always known for was their loyalty in the books, and I loved the whole northern conspiracy in book 5. Now they seem kinda like fickle morons that can't even keep it in their pants when the dude they just got done proclaiming king (who is trying to fight an enemy they all seem to believe in btw) is gone for a couple weeks.

Also Arya is getting mad at Sansa for all the things Jon would've done or wanted.
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Why specifically did they cut it to 7 episodes again? We could've definitely used more time on some of these scenes or relationships.

Tyrion/Jamie
Jon/Gendry
Jon/Jorah
Jorah/Dany
The tensions up north
The tensions in the Citadel

I feel like if they weren't rushing I would've liked all these storylines much, much better.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

And hated Tyrion for forcing Gendry's hand by walking right in front of them in open daylight, after having the jump on those guards.

Tyrion:
[1. Return to Red Keep]
[2. (Stealth) This shore provides a fair amount of cover to hide. It's a risk, but could work. (Stealth Skill: 11)]
[3. (Attack) I haven't been detected yet, which means I can get the drop on them. (Unarmed Skill: 7) (Surprise Attack grants 1 free round and +4 to attack rolls)]
[4. (Charisma) I'm just gonna stroll right on by them. I own this place, gotta walk the walk. (Charisma: 16)]

(Tyrion rolls: 4)
Charisma Modifiers:
Scarred: -1
Wanted: -8
Being in the middle of nowhere where no normal person would be: -10

16+4-1-8-10 = 1 <Action Failed>
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What are the odds that Arya attacks Littlefinger, only to find that he's a secret badass swordmaster and has been training his whole life? And he let Brandon Stark cut him open so that people will underestimate him. And he's a faceless man. And he can warg into people.
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

What are the odds that Arya attacks Littlefinger, only to find that he's a secret badass swordmaster and has been training his whole life? And he let Brandon Stark cut him open so that people will underestimate him. And he's a faceless man. And he can warg into people.

He's Jaqen.

arya didn't think the faceless men were gonna let her off that easily did she
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

What are the odds that Arya attacks Littlefinger, only to find that he's a secret badass swordmaster and has been training his whole life? And he let Brandon Stark cut him open so that people will underestimate him. And he's a faceless man. And he can warg into people.

stop giving d&d ideas wtf
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I'd prefer that to Littlefinger walking headlong into a sword, which is where we're headed.
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He should at least pull off something of a power play in 7x06 or 7x07. This was an awesome move he pulled on Arya - the perfect thing to do to pit sister against sister... and he did it without opening his uber-villainous mouth.
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To switch back to serious for a second, this is in strong contention for the dumbest thing Littlefinger has done.

Forget setting Arya up against Sansa (how could he possibly expect Sansa to win that) he's knowingly letting Arya think he's in on this! He's making himself a target for Arya too!
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Littlefinger knows Arya can fight, but he probably underestimates her intelligence (though he shouldn't given her being alive at all, let alone making it back to Winterfell on her own, means she's clearly quite clever).
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If Arya actually falls for this he hasn't underestimated her intelligence!

he will however have failed to account for the fact that she's a magic assassin dropout

I really hope Arya hasn't actually fallen for it though. She can't be that dumb... can she? I'm 50/35/15 on She really is/She knows it's a trap/It's a trap, but it's one Arya and Sansa set in advance and it's Littlefinger who's caught
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What if when Arya walked out of the room, she went back in the same direction she came in? I would have loved to see Littlefinger quickly scamper away.
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Littlefinger knows there is zero chance he gets on Arya's good side. He doesn't even try, after his moves on Sansa and Bran. So if Arya thinks that he and Sansa are intertwined, the split between Sansa and Arya could work to his advantage. As we see, Arya doesn't tend to think the best of Sansa. That conversation serves no purpose without LF eavesdropping. She's not stupid, but she is paranoid, and I think that's where LF sees weakness.

Trailer: That said, Sansa's clearly not going to let the split become real... It's her voice that comments, 'The long wolf dies, but the pack survives.' But it'll work initially on Arya for sure.
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long wolf is long
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