Board 8 > Spider-Man Homecoming was very good

(+) Yeah! (+)

LapisLazuli posted...

Oh, Agents of Shield, that show everyone always ignores/tries to forget.

Is that still airing.

That's just you, mate. It's gotten sterling reception this past season.
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Jeff Zero posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

Oh, Agents of Shield, that show everyone always ignores/tries to forget.

Is that still airing.

That's just you, mate. It's gotten sterling reception this past season.

This. Show is fantastic and has steadily just ramped up in quality since Turn, Turn, Turn in S1.

LtM is out of the loop!
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I've never seen anyone say anything positive about it outside this board.

Though I should clarify that I have never seen it BROUGHT UP outside this board in.....when did I move...3 years? Not since my roommates old Tumblr shipping obsessed girlfriend gushed about the shows fabrics.

That question about it still airing wasn't sarcastic! Thought it got canned.
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I dunno, LtM. There's a good degree of very positive chatter toward it on GAF and Reddit from where I've seen. Season 4 made some waves. Three arcs, each of them very well-made and very well-paced. It's been renewed for a fifth season, no doubt in part because folks received 4 so well.
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S4 made me a Gabriel Luna fan and I had no idea who he was prior to that.

Really liked his Robbie Reyes and I hope he's back next season, but I've heard they cut the show's budget so his effects might be out of the question.
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I follow comic book stuff pretty heavily even when I'm not participating and I thought it was cancelled 3 year ago. Not going to question the quality, how could I know, but I think the idea that it's a big deal right now in regards to popularity is questionable. What kinds of numbers is it putting out compared to other comic bookshows? I will be shocked if it isn't at or near the bottom.
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I haven't heard anything about it

how could it be popular
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It's putting out mid-line numbers compared to other network comic shows -- below Flash, above Arrow. None of these shows are bonafide hits when it comes to broadcast but they all do well in streaming. (This chart's a little dated, but IIRC the ratio still holds true between the shows. Arrow has tanked a bit more.)

https://tvbtn.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/comic-shows-ratings-graph.jpg?quality=85&strip=all
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And frankly I find your somehow falling into the belief a Marvel show was cancelled in Season 1 a lot stranger than me telling you it has a steady fanbase!
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LeonhartFour posted...

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Wondering what we get for villains in the next movie.

I feel like the mid-credits scene made it obvious!

Maybe not though.

I'm not sure. It felt like a Sinister Six set up, but they need more people to actually form that. Maybe a Doc Ock or something for Homecoming 2 and then a Sinister Six in 3? I'm not sure Mac Gargan alone could carry a movie and they'd need to wholecloth invent three more bad guys to do a Six
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I wasn't sure Vulture could carry a movie either, and he did!

And I guess they don't have to strictly follow the original Sinister Six lineup or anything, but Vulture was a part of it and Scorpion wasn't. But either way, I'm sure they could come up with a side villain, too, like how they had Shocker here.
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Vulture was able to carry a movie because they essentially turned him into Norman Osborn.
Scorpion's just some random criminal guy. Maybe they could follow the comics and link Mac Gargan with an actual primary antagonist J Jonah Jameson?

I want them to do Kraven though. He's the best villain none of the movies have used.
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

Vulture was able to carry a movie because they essentially turned him into Norman Osborn.
Scorpion's just some random criminal guy. Maybe they could follow the comics and link Mac Gargan with an actual primary antagonist J Jonah Jameson?

I want them to do Kraven though. He's the best villain none of the movies have used.

The correct answer is make Gargan into Venom, IMO. Which happened in the comics and has loads of potential.
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LapisLazuli posted...

Oh, Agents of Shield, that show everyone always ignores/tries to forget.

Is that still airing.

That's because the first season came too soon and was hamstrung by Winter Soldier. If it had started, say, in January of that year, that gives you a lot less treading water before the big SHIELD plot kicks in from that movie and people are less burned out on the plots-of-the-week when it hits.
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I thought it was pretty good but wouldn't put it in the top tier of Marvel Studios movies.
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

Vulture was able to carry a movie because they essentially turned him into Norman Osborn.
Scorpion's just some random criminal guy. Maybe they could follow the comics and link Mac Gargan with an actual primary antagonist J Jonah Jameson?

I want them to do Kraven though. He's the best villain none of the movies have used.

The sooner we get J.J. into the MCU, the better.
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

Vulture was able to carry a movie because they essentially turned him into Norman Osborn.

I completely disagree with Vulture being Norman Osborn. Their motivations and general ideas could not have been more different. Norman controls his own giant organization in the hopes of being able to create a super serum that drives him mad. Vulture is a guy who was completely dicked over in life and said that he's going to take things into his own hands and get revenge on them by stealing all the tech to get the payday that he should've had. Personality-wise, Osborn is just a rich, confident business man. Vulture is a gruff family man with motivations beyond just having an amazing company and then going crazy and murdering people. Hell, he doesn't even hold a vendetta against Spider-Man at all. He just goes "Yo Peter, you need to back off or else I'll have to hurt you." And that's all. Simple and to the point. Were it Osborn, he actively would've went out of his way to kill Peter. And even after being thwarted, he has enough respect for Peter saving his life that he refuses to give him up. Not like Osborn in the slightest.
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Lightning Strikes posted...

SupremeZero posted...

Lightning Strikes posted...

The casting in Raimi's films was awful except for the villains.

Like, what was with the ages of Uncle Ben and Aunt May? They were about 20 years too old.

Er, if anything, they were probably too YOUNG. Aunt May's old as fuck, man. This movie's just a huge exception. Even Ultimate May's still pretty old, and that was the youngest they got until now.

They were the 79 and 73 year old aunt and uncle to a 17 year old. That is unusual to say the least. Old aunt and uncle makes sense for an older Peter Parker but for teenage Peter they should be in their 50's. Maybe early 60's.

I called all my great-uncles "uncle" and great-aunts "aunt". I dont know the Parker family tree at all and just assume it's his grandparents siblings.
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I mean, this movie very clearly introduced Scorpion and Shocker is probably still on the loose.


Did MCU get the rights to all of the Spidey villains?
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At least traditionally I think Uncle Ben is Peter's dad's brother.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I mean, this movie very clearly introduced Scorpion and Shocker is probably still on the loose.


Did MCU get the rights to all of the Spidey villains?

Marvel Studios don't really have the rights to anything. The rights are still with Sony, so if Sony wants them to use a character they can.
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The notion that Vulture is basically Norman Osborn is just wrong.
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Jeff Zero posted...

Anagram posted...

Just saw it. I didn't like it except for Michael Keaton. Everything without him was a little by the numbers, but it's nice for a MCU movie to finally have a villain with a little depth besides Loki.

Ultron, Ego, Zemo, all very great MCU villains

They're fine as villains, but they have no real depth. A good villain can be more interesting than the hero. Zemo comes close, though.
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Most of the villains only get one movie to show what they've got while all the Avengers have had multiple movies at this point. Like, Loki wouldn't be as well regarded as he is if he only had the first Thor to his name.

(I also think a one-shot villain doesn't really need "real depth")
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

I mean, this movie very clearly introduced Scorpion and Shocker is probably still on the loose.


Did MCU get the rights to all of the Spidey villains?

We don't know the details of the deal between Sony and MCU unfortunately.
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profDEADPOOL posted...

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I mean, this movie very clearly introduced Scorpion and Shocker is probably still on the loose.


Did MCU get the rights to all of the Spidey villains?

We don't know the details of the deal between Sony and MCU unfortunately.

I mean, unless they somehow sold the rights to Spiderman but not Venom, there was no transfer of rights involved whatsoever.

Meanwhile, unless the Vulture came about because Marvel's only allowed to use shitty villains, Villains aren't a thing either, since Vulture's mostly obscure and wouldn't really be something anyone would think to transfer rights for.

So we know enough, really.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Most of the villains only get one movie to show what they've got while all the Avengers have had multiple movies at this point. Like, Loki wouldn't be as well regarded as he is if he only had the first Thor to his name.

(I also think a one-shot villain doesn't really need "real depth")

You're right in that he doesn't need depth, but the result is that the villains are the most forgettable part of the franchise (Loki excepted). Like does anyone care about Abomination, Whip Guy, Real Mandarin, Malekith, Yellowjacket, Robert Redford, or Ronan from the movies? Some people like Ultron, I guess. When your villain has no depth and barely a motive beyond revenge/greed/insanity, you keep the focus on your hero at the cost of having another character who can be even more interesting and cool. Ego makes up for it by at least having a connection to the hero and being interesting in that regard.

And while Loki wasn't as loved after Thor 1, he at least has something going on in that movie. He's certainly more interesting as a character than Thor.
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SupremeZero posted...

I mean, unless they somehow sold the rights to Spiderman but not Venom, there was no transfer of rights involved whatsoever.

Meanwhile, unless the Vulture came about because Marvel's only allowed to use s***ty villains, Villains aren't a thing either, since Vulture's mostly obscure and wouldn't really be something anyone would think to transfer rights for.

So we know enough, really.

I'm pretty sure we know that Sony has the rights to make Spider character movies other than Spiderman set in the MCU, and that they plan to make a Black Cat and Venom movie.
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Anagram posted...

you keep the focus on your hero

good
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Anagram posted...

Like does anyone care about Abomination, Whip Guy, Real Mandarin, Malekith, Yellowjacket, Robert Redford, or Ronan from the movies?

We haven't even seen Real Mandarin yet, so it would be kind of odd for us to care about him.
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I mean, out of that list I actually did care about the villains well enough. Probably Malekith the least though, admittedly. But the rest of them perform their role well. I don't get why we need to actively care about the villains all the time. They get enough focus to inform us why they are motivated how they are and provide enough personality that when they're on screen, you are intrigued enough.

Like yeah, it's nice if they end up being more interesting, but if they aren't, does that detract from the movie, especially if it focuses on the hero more? These characters all do bad and nasty stuff enough that you still want the heroes to overcome because you see their struggle.
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Better villains make for a better movie?
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Thor 1 was Loki's best movie, he was already a top tier villain after that. Not that he was a slouch in his later appearances.
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It was ok but not as good as everyone is making it out to be. I miss when Spider-Man movies had their own feel, and were big events that you looked forward to all year. This just felt like another chapter of the MCU.

Black Emilia Clarke was hot.
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I miss when Spider-Man movies had their own feel, and were big events that you looked forward to all yea

This was a thing?
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Pram_the_Oracle posted...

I miss when Spider-Man movies had their own feel, and were big events that you looked forward to all yea

This was a thing?

No.
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Anagram posted...

SupremeZero posted...

I mean, unless they somehow sold the rights to Spiderman but not Venom, there was no transfer of rights involved whatsoever.

Meanwhile, unless the Vulture came about because Marvel's only allowed to use s***ty villains, Villains aren't a thing either, since Vulture's mostly obscure and wouldn't really be something anyone would think to transfer rights for.

So we know enough, really.

I'm pretty sure we know that Sony has the rights to make Spider character movies other than Spiderman set in the MCU, and that they plan to make a Black Cat and Venom movie.

It's worth emphasising that Sony is still making all the Spider-Man films, including this one. This is a Sony picture. It just happens to be set in the MCU in accordance with their deal with Marvel. Sony presumably could do things in or out of the MCU as long as Marvel agrees if it's the latter.

Relevant: http://variety.com/2015/film/news/details-spider-man-appear-in-sony-and-marvel-movies-1201429039/

Interestingly, Sony has been trying to do something like this for ages. TASM was supposed to be in the MCU. It makes sense as Sony and Marvel have always had a good relationship to my understanding. Definitely much better than the relationship between Marvel and a certain other studio.
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I wonder what movies would look like today if Marvel hadn't whored themselves out to Sony and Fox early on.

I mean, I guess they were a necessary stepping stone in the beginning but...
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SupremeZero posted...

Pram_the_Oracle posted...

I miss when Spider-Man movies had their own feel, and were big events that you looked forward to all yea

This was a thing?

No.

Oh my bad. The Raimi films were small time movies with no hype.
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wait blade too

who made those?

because it wasn't sony or fox or marvel themselves
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FFDragon posted...

I wonder what movies would look like today if Marvel hadn't whored themselves out to Sony and Fox early on.

I mean, I guess they were a necessary stepping stone in the beginning but...

We'd all be a lot worse off in terms of superhero movies. For starters the MCU probably would have never happened for various reasons. Even if it did emerge, Sony bankrolling this film means that Marvel can make other films with no extra cost, so we would see fewer films and fewer risks. And Marvel never would have done what Fox has so Deadpool, Logan, and the R-Rated big budget superhero film would not exist. I have to imagine that Warner Bros./DC would be running the genre unopposed.

EndOfDiscOne posted...

SupremeZero posted...

Pram_the_Oracle posted...

I miss when Spider-Man movies had their own feel, and were big events that you looked forward to all yea

This was a thing?

No.

Oh my bad. The Raimi films were small time movies with no hype.

They were huge 10 years ago but if they came out today they would not be what they were.
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Lightning Strikes posted...

We'd all be a lot worse off in terms of superhero movies. For starters the MCU probably would have never happened for various reasons. Even if it did emerge, Sony bankrolling this film means that Marvel can make other films with no extra cost, so we would see fewer films and fewer risks. And Marvel never would have done what Fox has so Deadpool, Logan, and the R-Rated big budget superhero film would not exist. I have to imagine that Warner Bros./DC would be running the genre unopposed.

Would they, though? The DCEU is only really a thing because of the MCU. Before that we had the Nolan Batman movies, but those weren't designed to set up any kind of interconnected universe.
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

SupremeZero posted...

Pram_the_Oracle posted...

I miss when Spider-Man movies had their own feel, and were big events that you looked forward to all yea

This was a thing?

No.

Oh my bad. The Raimi films were small time movies with no hype.

The only reason they had any hype whatsoever is that there were basically no other superhero movies at the time.

Anagram posted...

Lightning Strikes posted...

We'd all be a lot worse off in terms of superhero movies. For starters the MCU probably would have never happened for various reasons. Even if it did emerge, Sony bankrolling this film means that Marvel can make other films with no extra cost, so we would see fewer films and fewer risks. And Marvel never would have done what Fox has so Deadpool, Logan, and the R-Rated big budget superhero film would not exist. I have to imagine that Warner Bros./DC would be running the genre unopposed.

Would they, though? The DCEU is only really a thing because of the MCU. Before that we had the Nolan Batman movies, but those weren't designed to set up any kind of interconnected universe.

Given that other than Wonder Woman the DCEU has been incredibly terrible, that'd probably be an upgrade for them.
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I don't disagree that the Raimi movies wouldn't be as hyped today. But I do think they were more "epic" and put Peter through more emotional stress. I think I the current Peter needs to get knocked down a bit more before rising and becoming a badass. I do like how he kind of sucks as a superhero right now due to his age.
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So after I asked my question I went down the google rabbit hole on movie rights and found out something interesting.

Fox wanted nothing more to do with Fantastic Four and were going to let them revert back, but then made that shitty reboot at the last second to retain the rights.

Why?

To retain the rights not to the F4 (which no one seems to want lol), but to Silver Surfer and Galactus which are part of the deal. Fox realized Marvel wanted those two and jumped on keeping them solely to cockblock and/or extort them.
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I guess people don't remember how much hype was behind Spider-Man 3 back in the day

$150 million opening weekend
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Pram_the_Oracle posted...

I miss when Spider-Man movies had their own feel, and were big events that you looked forward to all yea

This was a thing?

They only broke box office records it was nbd

Alright, I saw it...it was very..mediocre
Yeah yeah I know typical Nanis post but bear with me please
I mean, I saw 2 new super heroes movie in the last 2 weeks and while was amazing (Wonder Woman) this one sucked pretty much

A few days ago when the last trailer was shown I made a comment which was mostly a joke comment about not having high hopes for this movie because of how much they liked to show the Tony-Peter moment in the car
It was mostly a joke but oh my god I didn't know just how much this scene would affect it the rest of the movie.
First of, it was a sign of how shallow the humor in this movie is. I really don't get why so many people found this funny.
I mean, there was this scene when Peter enters into his room and then the camera shows his friend behind him surprised to see he is Spiderman and for some reason EVERYONE laughed.
Like, how many times in a movie we have seen something like that? that camera "trick" made it obvious someone is behind him and it ruined the joke. Of course so many people are too stupid to notice it so they were surprised, yawn..

And second, it was a sign to show how much of a douche Tony Stark is
I don't care if you like him from the Iron Man movies but in this one when he isn't the protagonist he was a pain in the ass and I couldn't stand him.

But the worst worst offender? Spider Man himself sucked
He was the ultimate failure, a disgrace to be called a super hero.
What exactly did he do right in the movie?
He couldn't stop the 4 bank robbers, almost got an old man and his cat killed.
He couldn't stop a simple van
He made a Ferry get cut to 2 and almost got everyone on it to drown/get killed by that purple shit. And then what I expected to be a throwback to Spiderman 2 Train scene, Spiderman failed to do that too. And then Iron Man saved the day instead (am I watching a Spiderman movie or Iron Man again?)
He made the plane with all the goodies crash, I assume most stuff got wrecked
He couldn't even stop the Vulture by himself, but rather it was a problem with his power source

He was a complete failure. What exactly did he accomplish? saved the people from Washington Monument? yeah maybe, but that was also his fault to begin with.

And another thing, what the fuck was the Vulture motive? "I am doing this for my family" huh?
A normal family of one wife and one daughter is a good enough reason to make you the boss of an illegal operation?
You don't need so much money to keep them living fine you know
Is it because the academy is expensive? oh my, then I wonder how Aunt May pays the bills for Peter! maybe she is also a mafia boss in disguise?

And some few more minor complaints-
Peter friend sucked so much. He wasn't funny, he is something that should be in Cringechannel
Liz was pretty ugly crush. When Peter first looked at the girls walking and there was the slow motion animation like we are supposed to understand he found the love of his life, I couldn't understand who he was looking at, because the blonde girl is much better looking

Positive-
Although ugly, it was still nice to see Aunt May younger than an old hag
The scene in the car when the Vulture understands Spiderman identity was great
"I am watching uh...porn" was good
The final post credit scene was amazing
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homecoming is a good movie that doesn't totally feel like every other marvel movie. people downplaying the raimi films is such a dumb thing, especially with how gigantic they were.
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But the worst worst offender? Spider Man himself sucked
He was the ultimate failure, a disgrace to be called a super hero.
What exactly did he do right in the movie?
He couldn't stop the 4 bank robbers, almost got an old man and his cat killed.
He couldn't stop a simple van
He made a Ferry get cut to 2 and almost got everyone on it to drown/get killed by that purple shit. And then what I expected to be a throwback to Spiderman 2 Train scene, Spiderman failed to do that too. And then Iron Man saved the day instead (am I watching a Spiderman movie or Iron Man again?)
He made the plane with all the goodies crash, I assume most stuff got wrecked
He couldn't even stop the Vulture by himself, but rather it was a problem with his power source

He was a complete failure. What exactly did he accomplish? saved the people from Washington Monument? yeah maybe, but that was also his fault to begin with.

And another thing, what the fuck was the Vulture motive? "I am doing this for my family" huh?
A normal family of one wife and one daughter is a good enough reason to make you the boss of an illegal operation?
You don't need so much money to keep them living fine you know
Is it because the academy is expensive? oh my, then I wonder how Aunt May pays the bills for Peter! maybe she is also a mafia boss in disguise?

You're terrible at understanding media. The point is Peter is super green. This isn't even his first big adventure, he's meant to be terrible. He's not the Spectacular Spider-Man or the Amazing Spider-Man yet. He's barely your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. Him not being good enough for the big leagues yet is the point. It's why he declined to join the Avengers, he HIMSELF understands he's too bush-league and wants to get some experience under his belt.

As for the Vulture, the point is that Toomes is a man who feels responsible for more than just his family. He's paternal to his men too. He feels like he has to do whatever he can to take care of the people who are his responsibility. Giving them jobs and stability is his duty, which is why he keeps going out with a battlesuit when he's like 50+ or 60. Honest work was not an option for feeding like ten families or so. It's what makes him a nuanced antagonist, that he clearly cares for people he doesn't owe that much to.
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Nanis23 posted...

Is it because the academy is expensive? oh my, then I wonder how Aunt May pays the bills for Peter! maybe she is also a mafia boss in disguise?

Both Civil War and Homecoming establish that Peter and May aren't exactly well off, with Peter having to scavenge for electronics in Civil War. She can probably barely afford the academy. We don't know what she does but you're being ridiculously nitpicky. It's clearly expensive, so Vulture turning to crime after losing his job (and investing into trucks for said job which immediately becomes wasted money) makes a lot of sense.

Vulture was also living in a nice house and clearly wanted to continue with that plus Liz's schooling, on top of taking care of his men as Kanz said.

Also you said Marisa Tomei was ugly which pretty much invalidates everything else.
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