Poll of the Day > What's a good first gun?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Use would be mostly for fun on the range, but also for personal defense if needed. budget $600. Must be a handgun
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i find it so strange hearing people talk about guns so casually. must be normal for north americans tho
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FatalAccident posted...

i find it so strange hearing people talk about guns so casually. must be normal for north americans tho

Especially those darn Canadians.
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FatalAccident posted...

i find it so strange hearing people talk about guns so casually. must be normal for north americans tho

walmart has guns and ammo lol
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lol my goodness
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I shot a shotgun once, it was ok, not really crazy about guns though

but on the other hand, Nerf and Super Soakers are always fun to use :D
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Can't go wrong with a Glock 19 but it's not perfect. Do you plan on concealed carry? If not, a full size will be fine. M&P9 (get the 2.0 though), Sig P320 is solid, Walter PPQ, basically anything 9mm.
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Glock 17 seems to be the go-to. Very easy to maintain and uses 9mm rounds.
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You'll probably want to spend more like $1k to get something quality that will last, $600 is going to be fairly basic/unfun.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

You'll probably want to spend more like $1k to get something quality that will last, $600 is going to be fairly basic/unfun.

Kind of like buying a guitar...
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http://www.cabelas.com/product/lantac-8482-raven-8482-tactical-centerfire-rifle/2359174.uts

This is the favorite of my collection.
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If you're cheap tho (that cashier job lmao) I guess you can go with this

Okay fuck you too link
S&W M&P

Kimber is the new big dog in the pistol world, but they are out of your price range.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

You'll probably want to spend more like $1k to get something quality that will last, $600 is going to be fairly basic/unfun.

Not even remotely true

SmokeMassTree posted...

If you're cheap tho (that cashier job lmao) I guess you can go with this

Okay fuck you too link
S&W M&P

Kimber is the new big dog in the pistol world, but they are out of your price range.

Do not buy a Kimber, their QC is shit, same with Taurus and Remington.
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You don't speak about kimber like that!
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The MK23 SOCOM

You can find it inside the the back of the truck near the helipad before you get into the tank hangar
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XlaxJynx007 posted...

Not even remotely true

XlaxJynx007 posted...

Do not buy a Kimber, their QC is shit, same with Taurus and Remington.

Thanks for sharing your garbage opinion again.

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/sp2022-nitron-full-size.html

Just in budget, old, plastic, simple, but it's a sig so at least it'll hold up well.

Personally I'd keep saving and go P227.
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Go with any 9mm you like. Hold them shoot them. Go elsewhere if you don't find anything you are comfortable with.
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SmokeMassTree posted...

You don't speak about kimber like that!

They may have made good stuff 15+ years ago, but they put all of their money in marketing and not quality. Kimber makes $600 dollar guns and charges $1200 for them. Heavy marketing does not mean they make a good product.
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Personally I'd be happy with an M9 that has Hogue wraparound grips.

But that's just me.
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Mead posted...

The MK23 SOCOM

You can find it inside the the back of the truck near the helipad before you get into the tank hangar

They're big money guns now.
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Solid Sonic posted...

Personally I'd be happy with an M9 that has Hogue wraparound grips.

But that's just me.

A big gun with bigger grips? How big is your dong?
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Mead posted...

The MK23 SOCOM

You can find it inside the the back of the truck near the helipad before you get into the tank hangar

They're big money guns now.

That new Smith with interchangeable grips.
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For the range, fun shooting?

Any good 6" barrel.38/.357 revolver, preferably Smith, Colt, Ruger.

Low recoil, accurate, reliable, low maintenance, a huge variety of ammunition from low powered target wadcutters to hot load magnums. Easy and cheap to reload for.

Autoloaders might be better for self-defense, but for fun you can't beat a good wheelgun.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

XlaxJynx007 posted...

Not even remotely true

XlaxJynx007 posted...

Do not buy a Kimber, their QC is shit, same with Taurus and Remington.

Thanks for sharing your garbage opinion again.

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/sp2022-nitron-full-size.html

Just in budget, old, plastic, simple, but it's a sig so at least it'll hold up well.

Personally I'd keep saving and go P227.

Wow and you're calling my opinions garbage. Remingtons quality has gone straight downhill since they got bought out by Freedom Group a decade ago. Go look up the R51 fiasco and the reviews for the RP9. Remington is trash now. Also, the Glocknade thing is a thing of the past and it only applied to their 40 cal, hence why I recommend 9mm. I like how you link to the SP2022 which is a budget gun but still not bad.
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This is what i have

http://para-usa.com/2013/firearms/expert/expert.php

Shoot's great and will do some damage. Just hit someone once and they will go down. If your shooting for fun, it is a excellent gun as well. It's what i learned on and got used to. To me 1911's are the best handguns you can find.
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thecolorgreen posted...

Use would be mostly for fun on the range, but also for personal defense if needed. budget $600. Must be a handgun

I suggest a shotgun if you're concerned about home defense. Can switch to a rifled barrel when you go to the range and shoot for fun. 12 gauge would be great.
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RedPixel posted...

thecolorgreen posted...

Use would be mostly for fun on the range, but also for personal defense if needed. budget $600. Must be a handgun

I suggest a shotgun if you're concerned about home defense. Can switch to a rifled barrel when you go to the range and shoot for fun. 12 gauge would be great.

Lol he said must be a handgun and you suggest a longgun. Nothing wrong with a shotgun but the guy has specifical requirements.
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yutterh posted...

To me 1911's are the best handguns you can find.

Agreed, the mechanics and performance are excellent and it does away with stupid shit designed to stop morons committing darwinism.
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dancer62 wrote:

For the range, fun shooting?

Any good 6" barrel .38/.357 revolver, preferably Smith, Colt, Ruger.

Low recoil, accurate, reliable, low maintenance, a huge variety of ammunition from low powered target wadcutters to hot load magnums. Easy and cheap to reload for.

Autoloaders might be better for self-defense, but for fun you can't beat a good wheelgun.

Sounds great ^.^ Thank you!
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

You'll probably want to spend more like $1k to get something quality that will last, $600 is going to be fairly basic/unfun.

Aren't you british?
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XlaxJynx007 posted...

Can't go wrong with a Glock 19 but it's not perfect. Do you plan on concealed carry? If not, a full size will be fine. M&P9 (get the 2.0 though), Sig P320 is solid, Walter PPQ, basically anything 9mm.

I'd recommend the Glock or M&P as well. I'd also recommend a Springfield XD, which is one of mine.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

You'll probably want to spend more like $1k to get something quality that will last, $600 is going to be fairly basic/unfun.

Spoken like someone with no experience with guns.

XlaxJynx007 posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

XlaxJynx007 posted...

Not even remotely true

XlaxJynx007 posted...

Do not buy a Kimber, their QC is shit, same with Taurus and Remington.

Thanks for sharing your garbage opinion again.

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/sp2022-nitron-full-size.html

Just in budget, old, plastic, simple, but it's a sig so at least it'll hold up well.

Personally I'd keep saving and go P227.

Wow and you're calling my opinions garbage. Remingtons quality has gone straight downhill since they got bought out by Freedom Group a decade ago. Go look up the R51 fiasco and the reviews for the RP9. Remington is trash now. Also, the Glocknade thing is a thing of the past and it only applied to their 40 cal, hence why I recommend 9mm. I like how you link to the SP2022 which is a budget gun but still not bad.

He lives in fuckin England and constantly talks about shit he's uneducated on/has no experience with.

bazooka
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Kimber is garbage for what they cost. As cool and iconic as the 1911 is, belive it ot not there are better pistol designs in the 100+ years since its day.

Taurus is not great brand, but at least they are cheap. there customer service sucks.

Remingons curent handguns are trash, there 700 and 870 (there backbone imo) quality control is in the dumpster. there customer service is good.

sig makes a great gun, but there metal frame stuff built in the us, or half in the us has to many qc issues for the price. customer service is hit or miss.

Glock, Ruger(Revolvers), and smith & wesson all make fantastic handguns priced well with great customer service.

Cz, walther, fnh also make some great decent price handguns but customer service is more lacking.

Hk makes solid guns, with obtuse design decisions and over prices them. They are apple of guns.
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As much as I hate the fact that our gun regulation is a joke, Magnums are really cool. I like the idea of an armor piercing pistol. Why would you use any other kind of pistol?

Today's light armor can only handle the weaker bullets. Anyway, a gun in my house would greatly increase my odds of dying by a gun or one of my relatives using it to blow their brains out. Wouldn't do much to protect like the NRA puts out.

Smarkil posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

You'll probably want to spend more like $1k to get something quality that will last, $600 is going to be fairly basic/unfun.

Aren't you british?

Ya, what's your point?

ultra magnus13 posted...

As cool and iconic as the 1911 is, belive it ot not there are better pistol designs in the 100+ years since its day.

Kind of. 1911 has a long barrel, a solid round, a low sight, high grip and short, crisp trigger. Every other gun does irritating trade-offs like shorter barrels, DA triggers and striker-firing. The only bit I'm on the line about is double-stack magazines as although single stack is more comfortable, the roughly 50% ammo increase is very enticing.
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don't bother arguing with kyuubi.

he once tried to argue that gun shops removed the firing pins from their display guns.

and taurus is fine, if you get one of the guns made on the Berreta machines. so their PT92 series.

if looks don't matter, and you just want pure function, then look up hi-point

they look godawful though.
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But to answer the question.

If its going to be target and home defesne only, a fullsize 9mm is probably your best bet. Go to a gun store and handle the following models, all should be fairly near your budget. Pick the olne that feels best in hand or has the features you like.

Glock 17
Smith & wesson m&p
Cz75
Walther ppq

If your more interested in a revolver take a look at
A Ruger gp100 in 357
Smith makes great revolvers as well, but you will probably have to find a used one to make budget in a fullsize.
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helIy posted...

taurus is fine

And you're questioning my gun knowledge.
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Do yourself a favor and go to a gun shop/show and handle a bunch of guns, so you can find something that's comfortable in your hand. Also, hi point is garbage, don't buy it. I've had no issues with my XD .45, so I'd definitely say to give Springfield Armory XD pistols a chance when looking.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Smarkil posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

You'll probably want to spend more like $1k to get something quality that will last, $600 is going to be fairly basic/unfun.

Aren't you british?

Ya, what's your point?

ultra magnus13 posted...

As cool and iconic as the 1911 is, belive it ot not there are better pistol designs in the 100+ years since its day.

Kind of. 1911 has a long barrel, a solid round, a low sight, high grip and short, crisp trigger. Every other gun does irritating trade-offs like shorter barrels, DA triggers and striker-firing. The only bit I'm on the line about is double-stack magazines as although single stack is more comfortable, the roughly 50% ammo increase is very enticing.

Nope. There are plenty of modern handguns available with 4.5 to ~6in barrels. With modern ammunition 45acp is an inferior round to 9mm for personal protection against human beings, and on top of that there are still modern 45s that will outperform the 1911. Sights all vary by model, and most any gun has interchangeable sights making the point moot. I assume you mean low bore axis, yes it does, but its not the lowest. The only thing close to unique on the 1911 trigger is the stright back insted of hinged trigger. There are modern pistols that have triggers just as good as a 1911, and there is nothing preventing a striker trigger from being that good. Single stack is not a feature unique to the 1911.

They are good guns, they still do there job well, but there are guns on the market that outperform them in every single category(save ergonomics, which are a personal thing) for a fraction of the price.
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ultra magnus13 posted...

With modern ammunition 45acp is an inferior round to 9mm for personal protection against human beings

Uh, what?
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dragon504 posted...

Do yourself a favor and go to a gun shop/show and handle a bunch of guns, so you can find something that's comfortable in your hand. Also, hi point is garbage, don't buy it. I've had no issues with my XD .45, so I'd definitely say to give Springfield Armory XD pistols a chance when looking.

Springfield has made some anti second amendment choices lately. The xd line is fairly functional but has a noticable higher bore axis, shorter service life, and no local armorer support compared to its main competitors in the same market and price range (s&w m&p,sig 320 and glock)
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FatalAccident posted...

i find it so strange hearing people talk about guns so casually. must be normal for north americans tho

Well at least murder was the second thing on his mind, not the first. So better than average I'd say.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Ya, what's your point?

Have you ever even shot a gun?
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dragon504 posted...

ultra magnus13 posted...

With modern ammunition 45acp is an inferior round to 9mm for personal protection against human beings

Uh, what?

Read the fbis report on ballistics and wounding effects of handgun ammunition. But the tldr is.

Handgun ammunition only wounds via crushing, cutting, or tearing what it directly impacts. To incapacitate effectivly you need to hit the head,cns/spine lungs and heart are good but arnt as sure of incapacitating as effectivly. You want a minimum of 12in penetration in calibrated ballistic gel and a maximum of 18in, 16 being ideal. Good modern 9mm ammuniton will meet the 16in ideal and reiably expand. The fbi found across the board there agents had faster times and better accuracy with 9mm than 40 or 45. You get a VERY marginal increase in wound channel size at the cost of capacity, speed and accuracy.
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ultra magnus13 posted...

Nope. There are plenty of modern handguns available with 4.5 to ~6in barrels. With modern ammunition 45acp is an inferior round to 9mm for personal protection against human beings, and on top of that there are still modern 45s that will outperform the 1911. Sights all vary by model, and most any gun has interchangeable sights making the point moot. I assume you mean low bore axis, yes it does, but its not the lowest. The only thing close to unique on the 1911 trigger is the stright back insted of hinged trigger. There are modern pistols that have triggers just as good as a 1911, and there is nothing preventing a striker trigger from being that good. Single stack is not a feature unique to the 1911.

And NONE do all of these things at the same price or less.

Long barrels (5" and longer) are rarer and rarer for concealed carry purposes. Sights are often raised for no fucking reason. For a lower bore strikers are used (which have stupid little quirks and inferiorities). Hinged triggers introduce more opportunities to pull sights to avoid a ribbon spring for that garbage DA capability and not use a clear, functional, solid thumb safety. Even single stack is pretty much reserved for subcompacts and competition guns (which are almost invariably 1911s and 1911-based guns.

Feel free to say different or more modern, but it's pretty hard to say better, particularly like it's obvious.
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Smarkil posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Ya, what's your point?

Have you ever even shot a gun?

Ya, in fact I was at a car show earlier this month and wrecked a couple targets with a semi-auto. 22lr. I also collect airsoft guns where the mechanics are so close things like leaf springs, hammers and struts are interchangeable with real steel.
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ultra magnus13 posted...

Read the fbis report on ballistics and wounding effects of handgun ammunition. But the tldr is.

Handgun ammunition only wounds via crushing, cutting, or tearing what it directly impacts. To incapacitate effectivly you need to hit the head,cns/spine lungs and heart are good but arnt as sure of incapacitating as effectivly. You want a minimum of 12in penetration in calibrated ballistic gel and a maximum of 18in, 16 being ideal. Good modern 9mm ammuniton will meet the 16in ideal and reiably expand. The fbi found across the board there agents had faster times and better accuracy with 9mm than 40 or 45. You get a VERY marginal increase in wound channel size at the cost of capacity, speed and accuracy.

9mm being lower recoil is the only factor you've presented that remotely matters. You should also note that the FBI also had records of shots to kill in real life cases and found that 45 needed 1-2 shots on average but 9mm averaged 3-4.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Smarkil posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Ya, what's your point?

Have you ever even shot a gun?

Ya, in fact I was at a car show earlier this month and wrecked a couple targets with a semi-auto. 22lr. I also collect airsoft guns where the mechanics are so close things like leaf springs, hammers and struts are interchangeable with real steel.

Got it. You're fucking with us. That explains it.