Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Luca Blight, Id and Grigori vs. Shanoa, D.va, Mega Man, Sorey, Zeratul

(+) Yeah! (+)

Id, Grigori and Luca Blight have challenged Shanoa, D.va, Mega Man, Sorey, Edna and Zeratul to a fight! Location of the fight: Robot Museum - Though the mechanical relics once stored here are now removed, the large glass chambers remain as plentiful but destructible cover in this not especially large, but especially dark, complex. Attackers will start at the courtyard, while defenders will start in the boss room, as seen in Mega Man 7.. Which side will win?


Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

-Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
-You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
-Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
-If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
-This match will end in 24 hours.
-The following conventions are in use for match topics: www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427


Luca Blight is as he appears in his boss fight(s). He has access to all of his attacks, but not the Beast Rune, which he never used because the damn thing was sitting in his castle.

Id is as he appears in Xenogears, with access to all of Fei's deathblows and chi. His other personalities cannot surface or influence him, and he cannot summon any Gears. His right leg has been removed, suffering no other ill effects (blood loss, etc.).

Grigori is as he appears in Dragon's Dogma, with access to all his moves except possession. A fighter does not have to be an Arisen to deal the final blow to him. Zeratul has used Void Prison on Grigori, keeping them in stasis for the first 15 seconds of combat, immune to damage and unable to act.
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~VS~

D.Va is as seen in Overwatch and its official cinematics.

Shanoa is as she appears at the end of Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia, equipped with the Robe Decollete and has all of her relics and glyphs except for Arma Machina and ones that summon familiars, as well as being unable to use Dominus Union. She also has her moveset from Judgment.

Mega Man is as seen in Mega Man Series. He has access to his Mega Buster, his Magnet Beam, all of his weapons from the mainline Mega Man series (1-10) aside from the Time Stopper, Flash Stopper, Gravity Hold, Centaur Flash and Astro Crush and his moveset from Marvel vs Capcom 2, but may only use his hypers if he has enough meter and the necessary robots are present. He also has a variety of weapons based on his defeated foes, allowing him to use Diablo's Red Lightning Hose. He has brought Beat, Eddie and Rush with him.

Eddie is as he appears in the mainline Mega Man series. He is carrying one E-Tank, and will attempt to remain hidden until Mega Man is low on health, at which point he will attempt to give him the E-Tank.

Rush is as he appears in the mainline Mega Man series. He cannot attack unless Mega Man is piloting him in Marine mode, but may freely switch between his Coil, Jet, and Marine capabilities.

Beat is as he appears in the mainline Mega Man series. He can carry Mega Man for short distances and use his melee attacks..

Zeratul is as he appears in the Starcraft series and Heroes of the Storm, with all of his skills other than Void Prison. His cloaking works as it does in HotS, invisible until either he attacks or is damaged, at which point it takes a few seconds of non-action to reactivate. All of his weapons have been enchanted with divine power.

Sorey is as he appears in Tales of Zestiria, with all orbs and talismans (though they buff only himself and his seraphim) and an endgame skill build. He enters the battle with 5 Blast Gauges and may armatize freely with his seraphim and Zeratul during the course of the battle, but armatization cannot be used to revive anyone. He does not have access to Siegfried.

Edna is accompanying Sorey into battle. She is as she appears in Tales of Zestiria, with an endgame skill build. She will enter battle with 5 Blast Gauges.

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In the darkness of the modern age, one of these teams shall meet its end...FIGHT!
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@Eddv
@Mewtwo59

The floor's yours.
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Opening argument

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yZEEK5z0P8
This is the whole terrain.

I have the enemy team in a box more or less. This terrain is tiny and so early on this is 5 on 2 - though since Zeratul has precise knowledge of when the void prison is going to break and perfect stealth I think he and Sorey/Edna can be Armatized together as one of the ideal dragon ganking forces in mercs history.

Display of Sorey/Edna fighting style (tossing around 4 elephants like they're nothing)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PvhE7Jn2RQ

Dragon that Sorey/Edna defeat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7cpt9EajD0
@5:00

Sorey defeats 3 Dragons - Eizen, Tiamat and Hedalf/Maotelus

He's also able to be Armatized with Zeratul today who has some really impressive showings with his warp blades.

Aside from operation-gank on grigori Zeratul should be instrumental in taking down Id as well. Id js going to have problems taking advantage of his strength and powers missing a leg anyway but Zeratul can mess up his day further. In addition to his incredible prowess in battle he has highly developrd psionic powers which he could probably use to mess with Id, who is after all a being consumed and even powered by trauma. Even if you don't generally give Zeratul the MOST credit on this front, Id is sort of a special case where its hard to argue he would have anything but very loud surface thoughts and probably susceptible to attack on that front. Between this and the fact that dude is missing a leg that pretty effectively neutralizes all but Luca who still has to deal with a pair of wrecking balls in mega man - red lightning hose wielding mega man at that, with an E tank and dedicated supports - and Shanoa who probably on her own is a pretty good match for Luca.

Shanoa has glyphs for all weapon types and styles but maybe most importantly has some great ones for a terrain like this like Vol Luminatio which is a magic homing ball of light and Vol Grando which calls forth pillars of ice. It mostly turnels into an unholy hell of beam and orb spam with her.A Between her and Mega Man theres going to be no way to avoid getting overwhelmed.

This us everything she can do. The impressive ones start about 5 minutes in - ill call special attention to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXVSlYtCIS4

And if for some reason this battle lasts really any time at all D Va in the MEKA cone out and add gatling fire missiles and just incredible facetankinh that even if it goes poorly ends with D Va exploding all over the enemy
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One legged man in an ass kicking contest.

I feel like this is kinda stompy for Team Mega Man

Also shouldn't it be specified that "His cloaking works as it does in HotS, invisible until either he attacks or is damaged, at which point it takes a few seconds of non-action to reactivate." with respect to Zeratul
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Lopen posted...

One legged man in an ass kicking contest.

more like one legged man in a platforming contest, which is somehow worse
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Lopen posted...

One legged man in an ass kicking contest.

I feel like this is kinda stompy for Team Mega Man

Also shouldn't it be specified that "His cloaking works as it does in HotS, invisible until either he attacks or is damaged, at which point it takes a few seconds of non-action to reactivate." with respect to Zeratul

Correct and fixed. Was so focused on not giving him the post upgrade version that I forgot to provide the basic one, 'whoops'
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Eddv posted...

I have the enemy team in a box more or less. This terrain is tiny and so early on this is 5 on 2 - though since Zeratul has precise knowledge of when the void prison is going to break and perfect stealth I think he and Sorey/Edna can be Armatized together as one of the ideal dragon ganking forces in mercs history.

true the terrain is very tiny, but it still takes Mega Man like ~11-13 seconds to get from the courtyard to the boss room

Mega doesn't seem to be hustling that hard, but still feel like the opportunity to press the 5 on 2 advantage will only be for a few seconds

think the legless Id is the more significant disadvantage team dragon is facing
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I think the Red Lightning Hose on Mega Man is devastating here. Id has no mobility and Grigori is huge. I'd imagine it does immense damage to both, moreso than you'd expect for typical opponents because they're going to eat the entire brunt of it.

Warp Blade too hits really hard, and yeah Id's fighting style isn't one that takes well to missing a leg I see him being close to worthless.

Can basically consider this a spiritual vote for Team Mega Man here.
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I kinda feel like Id isn't too hampered with a lost leg considering he can fly. Losing an arm is potentially worse off considering most of his Deathblows are punches really.

So how big IS the terrain? Ed says it's the boss room but the terrain write up says otherwise. What's the deal here? Is this going to be another match where the terrain's size is unidentified or what.
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So it takes about 15 seconds for Mega Man to get from the courtyard to the boss room, so by the time the other team gets to the courtyard, the void prison should be running off. The fight is taking place in the courtyard, because Grigori isn't going to fit in the building.

Id can fly, so he doesn't really care that he's missing a leg. He can just hover off the ground and move around that way. He also punches out gears, so D.Va is pretty much out of her league here. He also has a strong AoE attack in Big Bang, which can help in taking out the weaker members of the enemy team and even up the numbers.

Grigori is going to be the star here. He's got a bunch of AoE attacks that the other team won't be able to dodge in a small arena like this. He's got this spell (https://youtu.be/XXuZF-fF2-g?t=22m22s), which deals major damage to anyone within its area of effect, and the courtyard is too small to dodge it. He also has his fire breath, which does major damage to anyone it hits, as seen here: https://youtu.be/X1pOgMmZN50?t=7m26s. The weaker people on the other team aren't going to like that very much. He also takes forever to kill, with most fights against him on youtube taking 15-20 minutes once you get to the actual fight.

Now Eddv is arguing that Sorey killed dragons, but he did that with Rose's help. Mega Man is the only person here who comes close to Rose's strength, and he's going to have his hands full dealing with Id. He beat Heldalf with Siegfried, so that doesn't help him here. He needed the help of two armies to beat Tiamat. Also, he's only ever been able to armatize with one person at a time, so Edna is going to have to fight unarmatized.

Basically, Grigori and Id's AoE take out the weaker members of the other team, and then they don't have enough support to outlast Grigori and Id. Grigori is by far the tankiest guy here, and fighting him in a small arena where there's nowhere to dodge isn't good for anyone.
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Oh I guess that video confirms it's like a really small terrain.

okay then
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Wait does Id actually have full flight. I thought it was "leaps so damn crazy it might as well be flight" I'm blanking on moments where he actually levitates before jumping off the ground first
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https://youtu.be/RAw0v3hwEn0?t=30
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i also seem to recall him doing something during the solaris portion of XG but im blanking on actually finding a clip
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Yeah, he hovers here: https://youtu.be/cirQD3cIWa8?t=4m41s
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Fei also can at least levitate (in a Deathblow): https://youtu.be/62d2ZDTvhEY?t=64
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He is standing on crossbeams on the bridge in both of those <_<
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And yeah stuff like Fei's Deathblow is stuff I remember Id actually doing as far as "flight" goes-- but I still don't see that functioning without a leg
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He's hovering in front of Weltall Id in this picture: http://xenosaga.wikia.com/wiki/Id?file=Weltall-id2.jpg
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I lean towards Id being able to fly but it's still a serious nerf. Like half of Fei's attacks are kicks - bases AND deathblows. Dude can fly but is still restricted in what he's gonna be able to do because he's lost part of his attacking arsenal tbqh.
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Besides, he still has all of Fei's chi. So he still has his attack buff and AoE in Big Bang. Id punches out gears without any buffs. Who on the other team is more durable than a gear? He's weaker, but he's still a lot for the other team to handle.
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(In case there's any doubts about it being a serious nerf BTW: Senretsu, Hagan, Hoten, Tenbu, Kakei, Kokei. Six out of thirteen deathblows require kicks. It's not an inconsequential number.)
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Mewtwo59 posted...

Besides, he still has all of Fei's chi. So he still has his attack buff and AoE in Big Bang. Id punches out gears without any buffs. Who on the other team is more durable than a gear? He's weaker, but he's still a lot for the other team to handle.

This is true. What's also true though is that he has to deal with the teleporting monster that's Soreytul tho. Boosted warp blades are no joke.
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My point with grigori is that he cant be buffed or prepare is under the effect of an immediate gank.

As for one legged id, i have a hard time seeing how on one leg hes gonna handle the positive barrage of beam, bullet, plasma, red lightning hose, plus with homing light balls coming from shanoa hes definitely getting hit which will make it easier for the rest of that to hit
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And that means that seven out of thirteen deathblows don't require kicks. He's still got quite an arsenal without kicks. And how many of those six require kicks with both legs? If he's flying, he can still kick with his one remaining leg.
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i dont think flying kicks in the first place are really good at all sorry divekick fanatics
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Eddv posted...

My point with grigori is that he cant be buffed or prepare is under the effect of an immediate gank.

As for one legged id, i have a hard time seeing how on one leg hes gonna handle the positive barrage of beam, bullet, plasma, red lightning hose, plus with homing light balls coming from shanoa hes definitely getting hit which will make it easier for the rest of that to hit

Grigori isn't dying to one hit from anyone here. In fact, everyone, including my team, could hit Grigori at the same time and he'd survive. Hits not directly to his weak point do very little damage to him. And without an arisen here, his weak point won't be glowing like it is in the game, so your team won't even be able to take advantage of it.

And how is your team going to survive Grigori's AoE? According to this page on the Dragon's Dogma wiki (http://dragonsdogma.wikia.com/wiki/Arisen), the Arisen eventually becomes resistant to all but the strongest attacks, yet Grigori still does a huge chunk of damage to them. You pretty much have to focus Grigori's weak point to stop it, and since your team doesn't even know about his weak point, they won't know how to stop it until your team has lost 2 or 3 people.
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anyway i dont think id solos but im unsure what luca can really do and grigori seems bad on this terrain just in terms of not being able to actually fit in the terrain, so hes gonna be split up

sorey in a box w/ edna + cloaked zeratul + megaman / dva / lol shanoa seems pretty damn stacked against a dude without a leg.

now this all being said, i think id's strongest deathblows don't require his legs, and he does have moderate range. its just not so great compared to mega man's range (which i actually dont have great respect on his range) or even d.va's

so consider it a spiritual vote for team sorey & pals -- but again i'd actually like to know what luca does.
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i also seem to recall grigori being on that stupid woglinde terrain

sometimes size is a deterrent. if you can't cooperate with your team because you're TOO BIG a la ridley in small terrains it's kind of a handicap. fight compositions change when its 5v2 then remainders of the 5 vs 1 (grigori) imo
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Hes not just going to have perfect balance while suddenly missing a leg no matter how good he is. Plus hes just going to be overwhelmed, There is a lot of different powerful, capable of killing him attacks coming from a lot of different sources. Warp Blades. Red Lightning Hose. Black Hole Bombs from Mega Man if he really is somehow dodgey, A different kind of beam spam for every element from Shanoa, including two that home. And then of course fucking rockets and gatling fire from D Va.

And the point is grigori is going to have pressure on him. Hes not AoEing anyone since the wind up to do so is going to involve him getting his ass kicked.

plus its not like HIS team would be immune to that either so hes eating his own guys with these too if he goes for them.
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Why would they split up from Grigori? My team isn't stupid. Besides, if they hide in the building, Grigori can just breathe fire down the hallway and hit everyone. Or he could just destroy the building with everyone in it. He's also got all his magic that can hit inside the building. Id doesn't need to solo because he's got Grigori here.

As for what Luca can do, it takes 3 different parties to beat him. And that's after he's been shot with a couple arrows that kill the rest of his squad. He can definitely check either D.Va or Shanoa. The other team isn't taking him down quickly.
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And Grigori can take it. What, do you think that the arisen and his pawns are just standing there letting Grigori cast the spell? No, they're trying to stop it, and they fail. If 4 people stronger than the 5 you have here can't stop it, what chance does your team have? Plus I have Id and Luca here to distract your guys. So it's really 2 or 3 guys trying to stop it.

Id can fly. He doesn't need balance when he can fly. And if everyone is focusing Id, nobody's checking Grigori. Which means that he's free to do whatever he wants.
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Hes going to die like by accident to Mega Man lightning hosing Id.

Again Grigori is never going to have the chance to like think and pick the best option.

Zeratul s warp blade are psionic in nature not purely physical no one in Dragons Dogma has anything like it and i am really skeptical that a master assassin type like Zeratul WOULDNT quickly find the weak point.
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worth keeping in mind that Zeratul can read minds and attack on the front, but the reading of mind is important ESPECIALLY in regards to Grigori with his arrogant personality. He'll be like "I AM INVINCIBLE BECAUSE THEY DONT KNOW WHERE MY WEAK POINT IS" which would you know kinda tip off Zeratul that there is one and even where it is.
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something something zeratul gets punked by kerrigan in a cutscene
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Look at a Grigori boss fight. The player is attacking the weak point and it's still a 15-20 minute fight. Zeratul's warp blades may be better, but he's not one shotting Grigori. He's not dying to a random lightning hose targetting Id, either. You're really selling Grigori's durability short. He is by far the tankiest guy here.

And here's a list of Grigori's quotes: http://dragonsdogma.wikia.com/wiki/Grigori#Quotes. Tell me which quote points to him saying "I AM INVINCIBLE BECAUSE THEY DONT KNOW WHERE MY WEAK POINT IS".
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He doesn't need to say it, just think it.

Like come on dudes a giant douche bag in like most of those quotes.

and Luca is the one dying by accident.
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Without being arsed to go look it up, I remember Id flies up to his Weltall during the kills Ramses and his entire team scene
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So you're saying Grigori can't AoE because he'll hit his own guys, but you keep arguing that your team can throw projectiles out like nothing. The terrain isn't very big, especially with a giant dragon in the way. If Mega Man is in the back, he likely has Sorey and Zeratul in front of him, and they'll get hit by the Red Lightning Hose in addition to Id. Shanoa's stuff is going to be hitting your team in addition to my team. D.Va doesn't even have rockets, and her plasma cannons have so much spread that they aren't very useful unless she's right up against the target. I don't know where this magic place your team is standing where they won't get hit by all the stuff flying around is.
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Here's that scene DC is talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzWoih7cm4w

It also shows him beating up multiple gears, and he one shots the first and third ones.
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They can fan out around and whoever is fighting grigori can literally get to the opposite side of grigori.

Frankly i dont think your team survives very long aside fron grigori anyway but i think his first action being to breath fire right in front of him toasting his own team is less likely especially since hes immediately suffering gank from Zeratul and i think hes going to have problems of the "being ragdolled by Sorey/Edna" variety if not the "teleporting warp blade Sorey/Zeratul" variety where he just not going to have the breathing room necessary to do his big AoEs.

A wide sprwad cannon sounds kinda useful against a big dragon and some guy who is trying to dodge!

Early on D Va only has her light gun which has mkre randged usefulness
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Its still not id at full power and even with flight hes gonna have problems with balance, power and just frankly not having anywhere to go.
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Mewtwo59 posted...

If he's flying, he can still kick with his one remaining leg.

lol
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Plus even as this fight goes, this isnt mega man so much as Mega man with two lives and with 3 dedicated supporters setting him up and EVEN THEN Sorey Armatized to Zeratul is arguably even more scary dangerous with the fact that hes got the superhuman strength and the teleporting and all of that with NONE OF THE DRAWBACKS that Id is suffering
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Wait, D.Va doesn't even start in her MEKA? If that's true, she's useless here.

You seem to be arguing that Sorey and Zeratul deal with Id and Grigori at the same time. If they're dealing with Grigori, that means that your back line has to deal with Id, a guy strong enough to destroy giant mechs bare-handed. Mega Man isn't more durable than the mechs Id destroyed in that cutscene. D.Va's MEKA certainly isn't, if she even has it. Shanoa definitely isn't. Plus he's got Luca helping him out. How do Mega Man, D.Va, and Shanoa last longer than the gears seen in that video I posted?

So your team can spread around Grigori, but mine can't stay out of his way while he breathes fire? EIther the terrain is too small for either team to avoid friendly fire, or it isn't and Grigori can breathe fire without hurting my team.

Grigori also yanks the Arisen off of him when the arisen tries attacking his weak point. Even if Zeratul is invisible, Grigori does this without actually being able to see the Arisen. If Zeratul tries to go for the weak point, he's getting ripped off and slammed into the ground.
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Or you know he's teleporting away and dodging when he goes for it because he can read the dudes mind.

And yeah she doesn't start in the MEKA, she gets it after like 20 seconds or so though and so youre in a lot of ways arguing against yourself with the timer thing.

Either the fight with Id is over or D Va has the MEKA.

The reality is probably both. Shes got the MEKA in time to help overwhelm Grigori
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If I know ANYTHING from mercs 4, is that if someone has a robot, and they start outside of the robot, AND they and the robot are inside they are never EVER EVER getting in it. Period. So yeah, D.Va is useless here.
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And no, examples of D.Va using her robot inside a building don't matter
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GANON1025 posted...

If I know ANYTHING from mercs 4, is that if someone has a robot, and they start outside of the robot, AND they and the robot are inside they are never EVER EVER getting in it. Period. So yeah, D.Va is useless here.

once I get her upgrade she does EXPLICITLY start in the robot

Now it works exactly like it does in Overwatch where she has to wait out the cooldown, which is like 20 secs e.
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