Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 97: Trump World Tour 2017

(+) Yeah! (+)

The strength issue seems particularly ironic lately, given the way Trump essentially slowly sludges from point A to point B and the reported schedule shenanigans to give him as much rest time as they can manage on this trip.
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What it comes down to is that Trump is a snake oil salesmen and Hillary was absolutely not the one to convince people otherwise.
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-FFDragon- posted...

What it comes down to is that Trump is a snake oil salesmen and Hillary was absolutely not the one to convince people otherwise.

She seemed to convince plenty of people otherwise, though.

Just not in the right states.
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My take on the strength issue


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Jakyl25 posted...

I can't imagine this is true among people with any life experience. Maybe I'm overestimating

you absolutely are.
like even the recent poll on words associated with trump that included calling him an idiot at the top had "Strength" as #7. and that's from this month. on the trail? that would've been up higher along with "Great" and "Powerful."

like he successfully did that against a candidate who, thanks to concerns of her health, came off as weak. despite being unquestionably politically more powerful.
you want to pit him against a man who openly left his own rally to hecklers? who bends over backwards on various answers?
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Wanglicious posted...

like even the recent poll on words associated with trump that included calling him an idiot at the top had "Strength" as #7. and that's from this month. on the trail? that would've been up higher along with "Great" and "Powerful."

My favorite top answer to this poll was "trying"
i.e. the response of people who voted for Trump and deep down have realized that he's a massive fuckup, but can't quite admit it to themselves yet
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Trump literally skipped a debate out of cowardice

I'm not saying you're wrong that he successfully convinced people, I just don't get how. He's the most insecure person ever
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BowserCuffs posted...

She seemed to convince plenty of people otherwise, though.

Just not in the right states

Which is the entire point of a campaign, yes. I'd go so far as to say the most important part of one.
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I will note that another problem is that I interject different views and I have been accused in this topic of 1) being republican and now 2) a douchebag. I am just grateful not everyone decides to be so quick to attack me personally.

I voted for Hillary so obviously I wanted her to win, but that was mostly for the Supreme Court pick. That's really the most lasting harm Trump can do especially since he is spiraling out of power rather nicely and should be gone sooner rather than later. Do we spend time lamenting Trump every day or taking the opportunity his lunacy has presented us to become stronger? A lot of people I have seen, unfortunately, just chew on the meat that is Trump's horrible presidency without asking what can be done about it.

Bernie campaigned very well in key states that Hillary lost to Trump in (PA, WI, MI) and I just wonder... why didn't she campaign there? We need to examine this stuff and come up with better answers. I just see so much bashing of Trump, and why not he's horrible, and not enough holding the people who are supposed to represent us accountable. The Republican voters did a great job with this when they voted for Donald Trump in their primary. Talk about a fuck you to the Republican party. Of course we hate it, Trump is horrible, but they did something with it. What are we going to do? Are we going to go for another candidate in 2020 who is bought off by big donors who is a moderate who won't really shake up the system? Who won't fight to get money out of politics so we can actually be represented in a real way? Let's go for better than "Well, we're not Trump." I want us to be inspired to be more than simply better than the worst option.

And I'm going to be very blunt: If you want to talk about people who drove away the other side, let's talk about Bernie bros. These people treated Hillary like she was fucking Satan, attacking other Democrats who voted for her, and when the people eventually chose Hillary over them, they pitched a fit and voted for Trump.

This is a hilarious case of very, very, very....very very very vocal minority somehow really getting a narrative. I think I read somewhere that 90% of Bernie voters voted for Hillary in the primary election or so, when you consider independents in that I find that to be reasonable cross section. I'll need to source the exact %, but I remember it being reasonably high.

Also as someone who followed the primary closely the main steam media spin against Bernie Sanders and the literal collusion on behalf of the DNC and some of the members of the media in favor of Hillary certainly played a part in why he got less votes. Also he won quite a few states that Hillary lost in the general election. I mean hey if she is the nominee she's the nominee, no real grudge there but she could have at least tried to campaign in the midwest.

I think a problem is... the republicans attacked other republicans a lot following the 2008 election of Obama.

Then they cleaned the Democrats' clock.

Fighting among yourselves to try to find the soul of your party isn't a bad thing.
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yeah but nobody really remembered it as "trump skipped out," it was known as "the time trump ran his own event and raised millions for the military in a season with already too many debates."

that got spun as he doesn't need the debate. if he wants to reach out to the people to know the kind of man he is, they can just look at what he did instead. and know what? it worked. for good reason too because those debates were shit shows looking for the one liners, not places of actual argument. you literally can't have a debate with that many people, it just collapses onto itself and leaves you with politicians starring in a reality TV program.
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Wanglicious posted...

yeah but nobody really remembered it as "trump skipped out," it was known as "the time trump ran his own event and raised millions for the military in a season with already too many debates."

that got spun as he doesn't need the debate. if he wants to reach out to the people to know the kind of man he is, they can just look at what he did instead. and know what? it worked. for good reason too because those debates were shit shows looking for the one liners, not places of actual argument. you literally can't have a debate with that many people, it just collapses onto itself and leaves you with politicians starring in a reality TV program.

... no, a lot of people remembered it as Trump Skipped out. They just didn't care.
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Peace___Frog posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

you've come across as a pseudo-intellectual douchebag just trying to feel superior to other people because he "figured it out and is waiting for everyone else to as well".

Ah, i see you've met Chris

I do enjoy how I am trying to contribute to a discussion and interject my perspective on things and you choose to come in and try to snipe at me and I'm the douchebag in this scenario.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I will note that another problem is that I interject different views and I have been accused in this topic of 1) being republican and now 2) a douchebag. I am just grateful not everyone decides to be so quick to attack me personally.

Hey now, don't blame everything but yourself here.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I think a problem is... the republicans attacked other republicans a lot following the 2008 election of Obama.

Then they cleaned the Democrats' clock.

Fighting among yourselves to try to find the soul of your party isn't a bad thing.

And this produced Trump, so clearly it's not necessarily a good thing either.

Not to mention that's a correlation. I've yet to see any causation.
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Yeah Trump lost a bit of steam after skipping the debate, it's a reason why he went to all of the other ones except the last scheduled one despite being a relatively weak debater.
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No, I think I'm going to hold the person who voted for someone who had a slogan of 'When they go low, we go high' for calling me a douchebag when up until that point I've just discussed political issues with you.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

No, I think I'm going to hold the person who voted for someone who had a slogan of 'When they go low, we go high' for calling me a douchebag when up until that point I've just discussed political issues with you.

You literally have no idea how your tone sounds to other people, do you?
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Bernie campaigned very well in key states that Hillary lost to Trump in (PA, WI, MI) and I just wonder... why didn't she campaign there?

She indeed should have campaigned in MI and WI instead of trying to run up the score in places like AZ and GA, but the campaign focused heavily on PA. Not sure how much more she could have done there and with just MI and WI she still loses. (Also Hillary beat Bernie in the PA primary by like 12%, so I'm far from convinced he would have taken the state).
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I think a problem is... the republicans attacked other republicans a lot following the 2008 election of Obama.

Then they cleaned the Democrats' clock.

Fighting among yourselves to try to find the soul of your party isn't a bad thing.

The funny thing is that they found the soul of their party, only to find out that most of their supporters actually only cared about beating liberals
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SupremeZero posted...

In other news. Uh. This happened.

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/

The Donald is now invite only. I think they exploded.

"We are temporarily private in a show of strength..."


bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

you've come across as a pseudo-intellectual douchebag just trying to feel superior to other people because he "figured it out and is waiting for everyone else to as well".

Ah, i see you've met Chris

I do enjoy how I am trying to contribute to a discussion and interject my perspective on things and you choose to come in and try to snipe at me and I'm the douchebag in this scenario.

I am not in denial, nor are our personality traits mutually exclusive. We can both be douchebags. Forgive me for holding it against you that the last time you came in you were similarly pretentious and dismissive.
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GuessMyUserName posted...

"We are temporarily private in a show of strength..."


bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Well, point conceded to Wang
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lmao they're literally a safe space right now
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I think my tone often sounds exactly what people want it to sound like. There are plenty of people in this very topic who I've been talking with about these issues who I am sure very much disagree with me or who don't think my perspective is right (SupremeZero and I had a discussion about a health care bill) but neither one of us insulted the other.

Now if you think me being judgmental about some political things that I feel strongly about, that I have passion about, gives you the right to insult me in a way unrelated to the issue then I guess that's up to you. But I'll note everything I've said is about political stances and discussion.
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Jakyl25 posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I think a problem is... the republicans attacked other republicans a lot following the 2008 election of Obama.

Then they cleaned the Democrats' clock.

Fighting among yourselves to try to find the soul of your party isn't a bad thing.

The funny thing is that they found the soul of their party, only to find out that most of their supporters actually only cared about beating liberals

Yes.

I edited my post earlier to make a response but I'll reiterate my point anyways:

The "soul of the Republican party" produced Trump. That doesn't necessarily make it a good thing. If anything, it sounds like it's more likely to produce extremists and, if anything, the last thing we need is the actual extremist left and the extremist right clashing.
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Peace___Frog posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

you've come across as a pseudo-intellectual douchebag just trying to feel superior to other people because he "figured it out and is waiting for everyone else to as well".

Ah, i see you've met Chris

I do enjoy how I am trying to contribute to a discussion and interject my perspective on things and you choose to come in and try to snipe at me and I'm the douchebag in this scenario.

I am not in denial, nor are our personality traits mutually exclusive. We can both be douchebags. Forgive me for holding it against you that the last time you came in you were similarly pretentious and dismissive.

That's fair. Pretentious I can grant you but if I was being dismissive I just wouldn't post at all, don't you think? I wanted to discuss some issues so I am!
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GuessMyUserName posted...

SupremeZero posted...

In other news. Uh. This happened.

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/

The Donald is now invite only. I think they exploded.

"We are temporarily private in a show of strength..."


bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

r/socialism also has some drama surrounding it right now
https://twitter.com/Wokieleaksalt/status/865740991264849920
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https://twitter.com/rogerjstonejr/status/865734952746438656

What is Stone's angle here?
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I think my tone often sounds exactly what people want it to sound like.

This suspiciously sounds like blaming everything but yourself.

I think your tone sounds exactly like the way you portray it. And, well, you're the common denominator.

See, the thing is, I do this too sometimes. And I try my best to own up to it because I'm responsible for the words I put out.

If multiple, unaffiliated people find issue with the words you present, sometimes you must deal with the common denominator - yourself. Either change how you present yourself, or stick to how you present yourself but be honest about it.

Mariowario64 posted...

GuessMyUserName posted...

SupremeZero posted...

In other news. Uh. This happened.

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/

The Donald is now invite only. I think they exploded.

"We are temporarily private in a show of strength..."


bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

r/socialism also has some drama surrounding it right now
https://twitter.com/Wokieleaksalt/status/865740991264849920

What the actual fuck
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I believe that some positive things will come out of Trump's presidency. I am very skeptical that the positive things will outweigh the negative.

It's still not a guarantee that he gets impeached or that the current GOP agenda gets stopped at all.
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Well I did vote for Hillary...!

But I mean text is one of those things where there doesn't tend to be a natural tone to it. Because it's text and such. So often times if the text is something that's really disagreeable it takes on a different tone in someone's head than if what I was saying was super agreeable. That's not a you or a me thing, there's been studies about hostility in text that follows that train of thought. I mean I am for sure being super disagreeable because, well, we're super disagreeable on this subject but if it came off as if I was thinking less of you or insulting you than I am sorry, because I didn't have that on my mind in this discussion.

Also when I insult people I just insult them very rudely and with lots of capital letters, Peaf has played mafia with me he should remember this.
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There's nothing wrong with Chris tbqh

You just sound eager to rage against people ideologically opposed to you,.
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FFD is my guiding star on board 8, if FFD thinks I am being a bastard then I know I have for sure gone too far. Keep me in line, Kris~
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Well I did vote for Hillary...!

To be fair, in like 5 or 10 years 99% of the country will claim they voted for Hillary, probably.

"No, no, I didn't vote for Trump, what kind of moron would do that? Must've been my neighbor. Fuck that guy."
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Well I'm also more versed in Chrisese, so it helps.

There's just a lot of itchy trigger fingers these days.
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Chris is exactly right. And people like me and Ulti, that is, genuine swing voters who have actually voted for candidates from both sides in the past, are exactly the people you need to win over to win an election. If you can convince one person to vote who would have stayed home, that's a swing of one vote. If you convince somehow who would have voted for the other guy to change his vote, that's a 2 vote swing. If someone who was always gonna votes for you is happy, that's a 0 vote swing.

Yes, Bernie supporters said they would not vote for Hillary. A fair number of them meant it, and did what they said they'd do. Probably enough to swing the election. Is the Democratic Party so entitled that it feels it should get votes from people who expressly stated that they would NOT vote for Hillary? They called the bluff, except it wasn't a bluff.

This conversation would not happen in the Republican Party. Because the Republicans, when faced with a large group of swing voters who promise to vote for them if they do one thing, but not otherwise, will give them whatever they ask for. Republicans understand that swing voters are important, and power is important, which is why they are so good at falling in line.

The GOP lost the national popular vote. And won the Presidency, both houses of Congress, the Supreme Court, and 75% of the state governments. This speaks volumes about the gap in the political skill of the parties at the present time.
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KamikazePotato posted...

I believe that some positive things will come out of Trump's presidency. I am very skeptical that the positive things will outweigh the negative.

It's still not a guarantee that he gets impeached or that the current GOP agenda gets stopped at all.

Yeah this is pretty much where I am.

Like, I love that the Republican party is self-destructing despite winning, and I'm hoping that this proves to the pendulum that is public opinion that this was a very bad mistake and that electing people based on memes is the worst thing you can possible do as a voter.

But on the other hand, if they can actually get away with this shit, then my hope for this country drops down to almost nothing. A Democratic president with decades of political experience can't even pass a fucking job bill without Republicans going "Nope! We aren't going to let you do ANYTHING and we're going to make sure you take the blame for that", but a fucking CEO with no political experience makes a fool of himself, covers up something that may not have happened like he doesn't know that the mere act of covering up can damn him, commits blatant nepotism, constantly contradicts himself, and seems to favor an unallied country over our own country, let alone our allies and gets away with it, or worse, gets a second term?

The entire country, Republican AND Democrat, is screwed if that happens. It would take decades to fix the damage and then it'd all be undone by the time we got close to it, just like Trump is undoing the fixes for the damage that's been done up until this point.
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FFD I think my frustration sometimes with people is they call me a douchebag for discussions like this when you've seen what happens when I am actually being a douchebag. I need sensitivity lessons.
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Chris you basically told Bowser he was too stupid to discuss this with on the last page.

Or do you not realize that that's what that post looks like?
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Chris, you are a welcome argument.
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LapisLazuli posted...

Chris you basically told Bowser he was too stupid to discuss this with on the last page.

Or do you not realize that that's what that post looks like?

I think when people strip all nuance from words they can sound like this.

And let's follow the play by play:

I say he is a short term thinker.

Bowser says I don't know his measure

I go 'You're right, let's discuss further.'

And that's kind of the end of it. I made an assertion, he said it wasn't true, and I readily agreed I could be mistaken.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

And that's kind of the end of it. I made an assertion, he said it wasn't true, and I readily agreed I could be mistaken.

And I agreed that my perception of you as a pseudo-intellectual douchebag could be mistaken, too.

And then you proceeded to ignore that part, so you didn't exactly do a good job convincing me otherwise.
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BowserCuffs posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

And that's kind of the end of it. I made an assertion, he said it wasn't true, and I readily agreed I could be mistaken.

And I agreed that my perception of you as a pseudo-intellectual douchebag could be mistaken, too.

And then you proceeded to ignore that part, so you didn't exactly do a good job convincing me otherwise.

I feel like discussing someone's thinking process on a subject is different than calling them a douchebag but maybe nuance is suitably dead.
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An unfortunate casualty of the election.

Who's thinking short term now, without nuance we are truly dead as a civilization.
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I will see you in the other topic!
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Play Half-Life 2.
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Play Dragon Quest V
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