Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 408: Broken Roman Reigns

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jakyl25 posted...

Linda...came up with the name of Titan Sports, and World Wrestling Federation. She came up with almost every business idea, and it was her idea to replace Bob Backlund as champion with Hogan.

This is the part that will be changed in Vince's version.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Not to go Cornette on you but this is exactly what's wrong with WWE today. They don't sweat ANY details. They lean on the fact that they can get away with not making it seem real to excuse themselves from presenting a well-written show

I mean on this point I agree entirely. I'd rather a show full of cheating heels where they at least gave a justification for why I should take it seriously despite all that.

Lopen posted...

Even real sports have their weirdnesses though. Like in Soccer and Baseball dudes act like drama queens to try and sell they were hit by the ball when they weren't. Football has stupid strategies like trying to draw guys offsides with weird snap counts. Etc, etc. I don't mind "cheating is only cheating if you get caught" as just one of those weird wrestling eccentricities.

It's when the guy in the ring isn't the one cheating or setting up the cheating. That's when there's a problem.

Funny, I was thinking about that a bit myself, using the NHL as an example in my mind. Guys use as much leeway as they can...but they also get in trouble if they go too far. Obvious diving gets fined, penalties get called past a certain point (ie you can illegally grab McDavid a bit and be fine, but if you just tackle him and sit on him you're going to the penalty box), and if a dude jumps off the bench to get involved in the play he gets suspended for a while. I think WWE definitely leaves the "I can run the goalie if I make it look like I got pushed" territory and goes into "I'll hop off the bench and slash guys in the head seventeen times" territory on this one though.

To go back to the justification thing above, it's not entirely related but I did like it in 2009 when Orton and Triple H feuded and Stephanie McMahon basically said that they wouldn't fire Orton even though he deserved it for attacking Vince because they'd rather keep him employed so Triple H and Shane can legally beat the shit out of him.
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Is SummerSlam 2002 the best non WM PPV in history?

What else is even there? GAB 89
SvS 2002
Canadian Stampede?
Money in the Bank 11?

You asked this question in January!!!!
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While I can't speak for ppvs outside WWE, you're probably right on SummerSlam 2002 and Money in the Bank 11.

Another one I gotta give serious props to is the 2001 Royal Rumble, where only Ivory vs. Chyna was the only bad match on the card. Otherwise you have the following...

- A good opener to get the crowd fired up with Edge/Christian vs. Dudleys
- Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit in one of the best ladder matches AND best IC title matches of all time
- HHH vs. Kurt Angle which fulfilled its purpose of making Angle once more the escaping heel while HHH and Austin continue their feud
- And of course the 2001 Rumble where Kane simply turns face by cleaning house and we have an all star cast featuring him, Taker, Rock, heel Rikishi, and Austin, all major favorites in said Rumble.
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I recently watched Unforgiven 2002 and thought that was pretty good, granted its literally the show after Summerslam 2002.

Totally forgot that was when Flair first aligned with HHH. The card was fairly solid too!
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Having just watched every Royal Rumble card in full I scoff at that even being in contention. Below average Rumble card imo.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

You asked this question in January!!!!

One, Did I?
And two.... How the fuck do you even know that if I did?
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Actually I think *I* was the one who asked about this a couple months back!
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Lopen posted...

Having just watched every Royal Rumble card in full I scoff at that even being in contention. Below average Rumble card imo.

I would almost says 2003 RR ppv should be, but Trips had one of the worst TItle matches in history that night.
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EmDubyaSee posted...

I would almost says 2003 RR ppv should be, but Trips had one of the worst TItle matches in history that night.

Best part is, replace Scott Steiner with Brock Lesnar and it's "OMG SUPLEX CITY"

When Steiner and Trips had the rematch at No Way Out a month later, it was almost worse than their Royal Rumble match; Steiner was so awful that Trips (WWE's top heel, let alone Raw's) got a face reaction that night. Steiner wasn't just sent back down the totem pole after this match, he was reduced to appearing on Heat and missing the next two ppvs before engaging in his hilariously bad angle with Test.
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Steiner was slow, unathletic and lacked Lesnar's buzz or presence. You need to be someone like Lesnar to pull off the suplex thing. It's not a double standard, he's just a far better production than Scott Steiner was at any stage in his career.
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Also Backlash 2000

Which I owned on video when I was a kid but didn't appreciate the excellence of until later.
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XIII_rocks posted...

Also Backlash 2000

Which I owned on video when I was a kid but didn't appreciate the excellence of until later.

What else is there besides the ME that was that good?

Forget stuff like buzz, presence, and athletics. Lesnar was built and followed through better is the main thing.

Steiner despite beating Triple H's ass for a year he didn't win. If Lesnar takes a guy to suplex city and doesn't win people think it sucks too.
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XIII_rocks posted...

Steiner was slow, athletic and lacked Lesnar's buzz or presence. You need to be someone like Lesnar to pull off the suplex thing. It's not a double standard, he's just a far better production than Scott Steiner was at any stage in his career.

No. the first part is true. The last part certainly isn't. Steiner from 92-97/8 might be the biggest freak in Wrestlibg history. The screw driver should kill you. No exaggeration here. That move should kill the person taking it. The reason it doesn't is because Steiner is a freak of nature like few men who somehow during that move with his unreal strength stated in complete inteol.

Wrestle Kingdom 7 was a p snazzy show PPV show.

So was WK 9 tbh, I guess WK10 was kinda cool too, WK11 in a way, might have had the best match in history so it was at the very minimum decent.

@NBIceman not even promoting the events that happened today on Dragon Gate, what a disappointment. He's not even hyped for what could become the best feud since Junction Three vs Blood Warriors.
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Also I will say if Steiner just wins against Triple H in that 2003 match like he should have given how the match went we'd probably have looked at his second WWE career and that match a lot more fondly.

All Triple H's fault
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2002-2004 HHH was so insufferable I don't think I'll ever get over it.
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So with a little free time, I looked up and counted the number of ppv main event matches won by each wrestler to win a WWE ppv event (From WrestleMania I to Payback 2017). The following are taken into consideration...

- If a main event is a tag match, all competitors on the winning team got a win added to their count. Same applies for Survivor Series elimination main events
- If a main event ends in a no contest, no points were added

Annnnnnd I got the following...

1) John Cena - 37
2) Triple H - 31
3) Undertaker - 24
4) Steve Austin - 20
5) Hulk Hogan - 18
5) Shawn Michaels - 18
7) The Rock - 16
8) Randy Orton - 15
9) Brock Lesnar - 13
10) Batista - 12
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Bhaas1107 posted...

XIII_rocks posted...

Also Backlash 2000

Which I owned on video when I was a kid but didn't appreciate the excellence of until later.

What else is there besides the ME that was that good?

Malenko vs Scotty is the best WWE Light Heavyweight Title match ever

For whatever that means
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They mentiond Jeff is at 225 on Raw,I was wondering if in time they will drop him to 205 live
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ScareChan posted...

They mentiond Jeff is at 225 on Raw,I was wondering if in time they will drop him to 205 live

But not Finn?
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Which do you think would spike network views and viewers more?

My money is on Jeff. I feel the group that would tune in for Finn already have the network. People tuning in for Jeff could have more new subs out there
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Putting Jeff on 205 Live honestly is a good idea

Not NOW obviously but down the line
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you know who they should put on 205 live?

braun
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You know who they should put on 205 Live?

The Rock
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voltch posted...

Wrestle Kingdom 7 was a p snazzy show PPV show.

So was WK 9 tbh, I guess WK10 was kinda cool too, WK11 in a way, might have had the best match in history so it was at the very minimum decent.

@NBIceman not even promoting the events that happened today on Dragon Gate, what a disappointment. He's not even hyped for what could become the best feud since Junction Three vs Blood Warriors.

I haven't been home to watch it all day but this sounds fun.

I generally don't promote anything Japan in this topic anymore. Everyone that would care already watches.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Putting Jeff on 205 Live honestly is a good idea

Not NOW obviously but down the line

Yeah I figure down the line. And he can still be on raw when on 205 live. So it's not like he is missing tv time
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Jeff is not even close to the current weight limit though.
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_SecretSquirrel posted...

Jeff is not even close to the current weight limit though.

The whole sport is a work dude...

Bhaas1107 posted...

_SecretSquirrel posted...

Jeff is not even close to the current weight limit though.

The whole sport is a work dude...

I know when they brought the division in, they were very much adhering to the 205 weight limit, especially during the CWC.

I don't know if they've relaxed this at all, but remember when The Ascension were in the ring with the APA and the nWo and fucking X-Pac looked like a giant next to them? Jeff would do the same thing to everyone on that show and it would be really awkward.
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_SecretSquirrel posted...

Bhaas1107 posted...

_SecretSquirrel posted...

Jeff is not even close to the current weight limit though.

The whole sport is a work dude...

I know when they brought the division in, they were very much adhering to the 205 weight limit, especially during the CWC.

I don't know if they've relaxed this at all, but remember when The Ascension were in the ring with the APA and the nWo and fucking X-Pac looked like a giant next to them? Jeff would do the same thing to everyone on that show and it would be really awkward.

I just don't think it right we live in a world where Matt has been Cruiserweight Champion, and Jeff hasn't.

Just watched this.

How did that Raw Triple Threat get 4 1/4*

Like yeah good match but I can't abide anything at 4* with that finish. So bad. Everything wrong with WWE booking today right there.
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Well down the line I figure they will be Lax on it or Jeff could even cut weight.

And that's okay, at that point they could build someone credible to fight Jeff or even give him a year long reign of he carries it to new subs
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Jeff vs Aries was a BFG main event and Aries didn't come across like a dwarf
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Bhaas1107 posted...

I just don't think it's right we live in a world where Matt has been Cruiserweight Champion, and Jeff hasn't.

If anything else, at least Jeff held the Light Heavyweight Championship, which was almost the same thing, except no one cared and the belt was the Universal title before the Universal title existed.
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ZeroSignal620 posted...

Bhaas1107 posted...

I just don't think it's right we live in a world where Matt has been Cruiserweight Champion, and Jeff hasn't.

If anything else, at least Jeff held the Light Heavyweight Championship, which was almost the same thing, except no one cared and the belt was the Universal title before the Universal title existed.

To give an idea how true this statement is.....

I forgot that Jeff was. I remembered Christian winning it, not at all Jeff Hardy though.
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EmDubyaSee posted...

To give an idea how true this statement is.....

I forgot that Jeff was. I remembered Christian winning it, not at all Jeff Hardy though.

Yep. Held it for 3 weeks before dropping the belt to X-Pac.

After WWF got the belt from NJPW, the Light Heavyweight title would proceed to be the most irrelevant title possibly in the company's entire history (or at least the last 20 years). Seriously, this is all the people who held the title starting in 1997 when WWF had a tournament to determine its first champion...

Taka Michinoku
Christian
Gillberg
Essa Rios
Dean Malenko (twice)
Scotty 2 Hotty
Crash Holly
Jerry Lynn
Jeff Hardy
X-Pac (twice)
Tajiri

A whopping 11 people in a span of less than 4 years. When it was time to merge the belts at Survivor Series 2001, X-Pac and Tajiri were supposed to face off to merge the Light Heavyweight and Cruiserweight titles, but X-Pac's injury cut that short. Shortly after, Tajiri was named the WWF Cruiserweight Champion. That's right, the Light Heavyweight title was so irrelevant that the WWF kept it's direct competitor's title instead of their own when it was time to unify the belts.
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On another note, looking at some of the Royal Rumbles of the past, it's unreal how some of the most recent ones have competitors who are either no longer active in the ring or unemployed with WWE (and both in some cases). You don't start noticing it until 2012 really. (Note that I'm not counting injuries as ones being inactive, like Ryder)

2012's Rumble
Gone: Cody, Gabriel, Riley, Rodriguez, Santino, Zeke, Khali, Duggan, Kharma, Swagger, Barrett
Employed, but doesn't wrestle: Foley, Lawler, Booker, Cole, Road Dogg, David Otunga
Grand total: 17/30

2011
Gone: Punk, Gabriel, Ted Jr, Morrison, Tatsu, Chavo, JTG, Masters, Reks, Kozlov, Khali, Mason, Hornswoggle, Swagger, Mysterio, Barrett, Riley, Zeke, Santino, Del Rio
Employed but inactive: Bryan, Regal, Otunga, Booker, Nash, Kidd (there's speculations that he'll probably never wrestle again), Kane (unless he loses his election >_>)
Total: 27/40

2010
Gone: Bourne, Punk, JTG, Khali, Phoenix, Ted Jr, Morrison, Cody, MVP, Carlito, Shelton, Tatsu, Masters, Swagger, Batista
Employed/signed, but inactive: HHH*, Kane, HBK, Edge
Total: 19/30
(* = Until he returns just in time for WrestleMania 34! >_>)
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Cruiserweight sounds better than Light Heavyweight anyway.

ya'll remember WCW's Cruiserweight Tag Team Championship? They created it months before the company folded, for some goddamn reason. I think there were only 2 teams that ever held it.
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At the time of said titles being created, WCW's staff had no clue what was gonna happen to the company, until Jamie Kellner took over for TWC.

But yeah, I recall the WCW CW Tag Titles having only 2 different champions
- Elix Skipper and Kid Romeo
- Kidman and Rey Mysterio

I think Kidman and Rey just got to keep the belts, because fuck it, why not?
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I feel like that's inaccurate because I swear I remember 3 Count and the Yung Dragons fighting for the CW Tag Titles.
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They both made it to the semifinals of the initial title tournament, but lost to Kidman/Rey and Skipper/Romeo.

You probably got it confused with 3 Count and Jung Dragons fighting for everything else, such as record contracts and #1 contendership to the singles Cruiserweight title in that sick 3-way ladder match at Starrcade.
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I probably am. I just remembered that being a featured feud before WCW got axed.
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Im watching New Blood Rising (2000) and the opening match is literally 3 Count vs. the Jung Dragons

With contracts/record deals on the line no less. lmao
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ffmasterjose posted...

Im watching New Blood Rising (2000) and the opening match is literally 3 Count vs. the Jung Dragons

lolz.

And that's the only good match on the card, it's all downhill from there.
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Oh jesus, yeah I may need to abort mission on this one.
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Oh god, I didn't realize THAT was the PPV with Jody Bagwell on a Pole. Nope, not even gonna finish it.
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XD

Yep. Along with the Judy Bagwell on a Forklift match, New Blood Rising also gave us the following...

- The Great Muta jobbing to The Cat (Note, I do like The Cat, but he is not above Muta)
- A fatal four way tag team title match with three special guest referees. The match ends when Chavo Guerrero steals one of the ref shirts and administers a 3 count in favor of KroniK, despite the fact that Chavo's own partners, the Misfits in Action, were also in the match.
- A mud wrestling match between Major Gunns and Stacy Keibler. At least it's eye candy
- A 52 second match between Sting and the KISS Demon
- A US title match between Storm and Awesome where the rules changed 3-4 times
- The infamous triple threat match where not only does Goldberg show up late, but also refuses to take Nash's powerbomb and walks out on the match
- An impromptu tag title match between KroniK and Vampiro/Muta
- A decent main event in Jarrett vs. Booker T, but not enough to save this mess of a show

So you have Dragons vs. 3 Count and Jarrett vs. Booker T. The rest is hilariously bad. That being said, it's somehow only the second worst ppv WCW had in 2000.
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