Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 405: We're All Shook Up

(+) Yeah! (+)

It means they'll probably have to move to a subscription style
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Iamdead7 posted...

did anyone catch how bad Cheap Heat was this week


yikes

How is that different from every other week?
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Eddv posted...

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

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I am so unbearably lost. What in the world are they doing with Ember Moon, the crazy badass chick with the glowing eyes? They had her moping around in a hoodie! What the hell!? Why won't you just let her be a vengeful wicked badass? Ember Moon should be the easiest thing to book. Her name is freaking EMBER MOON! Stop killing her mystique!

That struck me as a promo for Liv Morgan.

If they want to put Liv Morgan over Asuka they shoukd just do that

Yeah, why is Ember Moon the one going "This was supposed to be my moment, and it was taken away from me. :(" Why can't we have a cool character with tons of mystique behind her?
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Also, I found a summary of the first 20 minutes of Cheap Heat.

I downloaded Cheap Heat yesterday. Originally this was a Grantland/ESPN podcast with the Masked Man and Peter Rosenberg. It eventually transferred over to ESPN and Rosenberg got hired by WWE. A quick summary of the episode

Peter Rosenberg suggested Meltzer was covering the JBL story out of spite. Says JBL burying the Observer on Rosenberg's network show must have pissed Meltzer off. (I don't know why Meltzer would care, he knows people read it, he knows JBL knows what it is, its been around 30 years, Hulk buried it live on TV in 95).

Suggests that JBL's bullying is really just kayfabe. Not just the Mauro stuff but historical evidence of JBL bullying people backstage off TV is just him...in character? Cites the Miz story as evidence.

Insists that Justin Roberts is only out to sell books. Says Roberts has been angry with WWE since he left. Declines to mention that Roberts was writing this book before the Mauro incident.

Played stupid to any evidence, stories, comments or reporting from others. Declines to mention info coming from MMA friends of Mauro, declines to mention any of the comments from Johnny Nitro or others previously quoted.

Talks about the old days suggests if you get into the WWE you should basically expect/understand the bullying ribbing culture.

Ended the podcast acknowledging that people were going to call him a shill no matter what he does.

I'm actually a little bit surprised on his take. I mean, I didn't expect him to attack JBL but I would have thought he would have just stayed mostly quiet. He came across like a WWE PR attack dog. If you want to listen to it, its basically the first 20 minutes of the show.
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Well I guess that settles it then.

People are just trying to use jbl for their own profit because they are bitter hacks.
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He isn't wrong about that in theory. Profiting from a scandal is right in line with people looking to make easy money. We don't know Justin Roberts at all. How do we know what he says isn't trumped up to sell his book (which is a best seller supposedly). Do you think anyone would care about his book if he wasn't going on ESPN.com shitting over this whole situation? I highly doubt it.could be Roberts just got lucky all this crap came out at a convenient time...but he's still benefiting.

Going after Meltzer and playing dumb sounds like Rosenberg just playing up keeping his stock within the company. If JBL hasn't targeted him outside of on-air BS, fair enough. One case is one case. Still, I doubt his point about "Hey I'm an anonymous ring announcer guy. Buy my book!" It's not impossible.
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Uh, Justin Roberts wrote and published his book before all the Mauro/JBL stuff came out. Sales really only blew up because Meltzer went "I read through it and it tells a lot about the way things are backstage and has stories about how he was tortured by JBL." Roberts has been a very humble dude long before this, and he's been very clear when advertising his book that the JBL thing is only a part of it, and that there was a lot of good he's had.

I actually found the most interesting part of the Justin Roberts interview on Wrestling Observer was where he was talking about trying to get promoted to a producer because he understood how to work a crowd and what works and what doesn't and Triple H instead hired some NBA producers who didn't really get it.

And that whenever you're at a show and the guy comes out to the ring, then they show some commercials, he said that 100% of the time the wrestler is in the ring talking to him and the ref going "This is so awkward."
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Well WWE did benoit Justin Roberts from the Connor campaign and then made fun of him and rubbed it in his face how irrelevant he was. Wonder why Roberts then left.

Though he does say that intrrview that The Creator likes to embarass people. Guess if you're not one of his chosen selfie buddies things won't look rosy for long.

Still tv will supposedly improve once the king of kings is in charge so the ends justify the means.
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Rosenberg said...

Suggests that JBL's bullying is really just kayfabe.

Rosenberg later said...

Talks about the old days suggests if you get into the WWE you should basically expect/understand the bullying ribbing culture.

Hilarious when JBL defense force tries to play this point both ways simultaneously to see which one gets the most traction as a plausible argument
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

http://botchedspot.com/blog/comic/house-of-horrors/

I think this made me laugh the most out of any of those comics. This is great.
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Supposedly the plan for Sasha vs Bayley is to stretch it out even further until Sasha turns on Bayley before SummerSlam.

I cannot fathom how they can possibly stretch this for that long.
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I can fathom how they can stretch it this long.

I just can't fathom why.
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They want to beat the Paige/AJ record of "slowest moving women's feud ever" because only people on good terms with the company can have records.
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Well you see Raw can only focus on 2 women at a time
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They can't only focus on 2 women at a time. They regularly have two women's feuds going on at once. It's just that they kept the one going on forever.

But this is the same stupid thing they do all the time. "Hey, we really want Sasha." So we don't get Sasha winning at Mania. Instead we wait until directly before Summerslam.

And now "Hey, we really want Sasha and Bayley to feud." So we don't get it at Mania. Instead we have to wait until Summerslam.

Blows my mind man.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Supposedly the plan for Sasha vs Bayley is to stretch it out even further until Sasha turns on Bayley before SummerSlam.

I cannot fathom how they can possibly stretch this for that long.

So, Alexa jobs to Bayley the next 4 months??

Like, if they aren't even gonna have Sasha turn heel, and you don't want Nia to job (again) 1 on 1 yet... what the hell.

It was also mentioned that Bayley would feud with Alexa and Nia, yes. So Alexa can get lost in the shuffle and Bayley needs to be able to survive Nia before Sasha's heel turn.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

It was also mentioned that Bayley would feud with Alexa and Nia, yes. So Alexa can get lost in the shuffle and Bayley needs to be able to survive Nia before Sasha's heel turn.

I would like to put an ATB out on the grim reaper.... someone in Stanford CT....

They've slow burned the Sasha heel turn long enough already.
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https://streamable.com/nxajg
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Also, AJPW sold out Korakuen tonight.

Rumors of their demise etc etc
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Supposedly the plan for Sasha vs Bayley is to stretch it out even further until Sasha turns on Bayley before SummerSlam.

I cannot fathom how they can possibly stretch this for that long.

You do remember how long they managed to stretch Charlotte vs Sasha, right? If there's one thing I know the WWE is good at, it's dragging things out until they make you wish you were dead.
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If kidani had a Vince like approach, he would get kento.

That guy is the best ace going now, even above yamato and harashima.

But because he's not making moves, I could see WWE getting him. He would be a huge get once they start making their big push into japan.
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Angle on Reigns

“I love him. The issue with Roman is he was utilized and pushed way too fast. When you skip the U.S. Title, Intercontinental Title, the King of the Ring and go right to the top, fans don’t like that. … Half the fans love him; half the fans hate him. Same with [John] Cena. When Cena came in, Vince pushed the hell out of him and fans were like, ‘Gosh, dang. This guy’s invincible. I hate him!’ … If Vince waits it out a bit, fans will start to accept [Roman Reigns], and if they don’t, then turn him heel.”
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RaidenZeroX posted...

Angle on Reigns

“I love him. The issue with Roman is he was utilized and pushed way too fast. When you skip the U.S. Title, Intercontinental Title, the King of the Ring and go right to the top, fans don’t like that. … Half the fans love him; half the fans hate him. Same with [John] Cena. When Cena came in, Vince pushed the hell out of him and fans were like, ‘Gosh, dang. This guy’s invincible. I hate him!’ … If Vince waits it out a bit, fans will start to accept [Roman Reigns], and if they don’t, then turn him heel.”

Except no. Cena was over as hell, didn't skip the US Title. Even when Cena was HATED, he was still getting crazy pops from women, and children. There is no half the fans that love Reigns. I'm not sure there is even 10% at this time if we're being honest...

He probably had to edit himself to avoid being fired and having Vince rescind his Hall of Fame entry.
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I mean its been well over well over a year so I'd say Vince has done more than wait it out "a bit". Which means Angle agrees it is time to turn him heel.

I mean its not like Cena originally got over as a heel or anything.
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Or the Rock. Or Stone Cold. Or...
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Too bad Vince won't listen to Angle.
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This really depends on how you define "got over."

I'm quite sure that in Vince's mind, Roman "originally got over as a heel" as well (in The Shield)
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I mean he DID

just not over enough for this push
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And The Shield (as a unit) possessed its share of midcard titles and had some significant victories and accomplishments (Taker, Evolution, etc.) that seemingly made it ready for main event status. I really don't agree with the idea that Roman "skipped the midcard."

By that definition, so did Seth, and the fans didn't revolt against HIM as champion (maybe because he lost like 80% of the time, who knows)
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the shield got over.
then they split. rollins, ambrose, both kept it and went further ahead with the crowds. reigns uh... not so much.
and they've had him buddy up with ambrose to try to leech from his popularity too. it worked, temporarily.
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The problem is that Roman didn't stand out enough in SHIELD to benefit coming out of it.

He just seemed like the Muscle, and the muscle usually isn't the guy who gets the big push coming out of a group. That tends to be the most charismatic members, which were Rollins and Ambrose (I'd argue more Ambrose but Rollins got the big moment so that put him over).

Roman needed a Batista "thumbs down" style moment to let him use the momentum from SHIELD. Instead Rollins got the big moment to break up the group and Ambrose is the one who got put as the face opposing him. Roman meanwhile kept the music, the outfit, and just became a singles guy who was still wearing all the trappings of a now dead group which had moved on without him.

Imagine Rock trying to break out from NoD while still dressing like them and using their music for years.
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Man, after typing that I feel like if they had handled it differently Ambrose could have been huge at this point. Let him take out Rollins, go to war (and win) against the Authority, and become the top face.
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He just seemed like the Muscle, and the muscle usually isn't the guy who gets the big push coming out of a group.

No, the muscle usually IS the guy who gets the big push, it just usually fails because it's not the right guy to give the big push to. Doesn't stop Vince though.

Roman needed a Batista "thumbs down" style moment to let him use the momentum from SHIELD.

As much as I hated Tista during that era, this is still one of the best moments in recent WWE history imo.
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Bhaas1107 posted...

RaidenZeroX posted...

Angle on Reigns

“I love him. The issue with Roman is he was utilized and pushed way too fast. When you skip the U.S. Title, Intercontinental Title, the King of the Ring and go right to the top, fans don’t like that. … Half the fans love him; half the fans hate him. Same with [John] Cena. When Cena came in, Vince pushed the hell out of him and fans were like, ‘Gosh, dang. This guy’s invincible. I hate him!’ … If Vince waits it out a bit, fans will start to accept [Roman Reigns], and if they don’t, then turn him heel.”

Except no. Cena was over as hell, didn't skip the US Title. Even when Cena was HATED, he was still getting crazy pops from women, and children. There is no half the fans that love Reigns. I'm not sure there is even 10% at this time if we're being honest...

Someone must like him cause Merch. Unless Vince is buying all of Reigns's merch. Which, now that I am imagining it in my head is hilarious.
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SmartMuffin posted...

No, the muscle usually IS the guy who gets the big push, it just usually fails because it's not the right guy to give the big push to. Doesn't stop Vince though.

I guess I was talking about successful times.
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Well, according to Bruce Pritchard, he said that backstage any time that anyone told Vince somebody wasn't going to get over that Vince thought would get over, Vince would purposefully put as much time and resources into getting that person over, and that they were better off not saying anything and instead letting Vince come to realize it instead.

But I think Roman's issue now is just that he's damaged goods. Die hard fans think his push is pathetic and they just hate his character. Casuals think he's a hilariously pathetic loser who can't get the fans to like him, so there's no reason for them to like him either. They can't fix that without turning him. They just can't. And they've literally done every storyline with him now. He's faced his former stable buddies, he's faced the Giants, he's faced the Authority, he's faced Lesnar, he's faced the freaking Undertaker. What is there left for Roman as a face? He has nothing that can ever interest me. Sure, Braun had an awesome segment with him once, but I actually have no interest in this feud at all.
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I'd love it if tonight on RAW we see Roman give a message in a hospital bed via satelitte and then Braun pulls an Austin and attacks him out of nowhere.
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I dunno, I think they could "fix" Roman pretty much the same way they did Cena. Keep him out of the ME. Leave him in midcard feuds. Let people go over him. Don't put him up against up and coming fan favorites, over-push some other awful person that the crowd starts to hate more, etc.
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SmartMuffin posted...

I dunno, I think they could "fix" Roman pretty much the same way they did Cena. Keep him out of the ME. Leave him in midcard feuds. Let people go over him. Don't put him up against up and coming fan favorites, over-push some other awful person that the crowd starts to hate more, etc.

Cena was never nearly as hated as Roman Reigns. It will not work. Especially since Roman has been in WWE in half the time Cena was at this point of his career.
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Angle did confuse the Cena timeline a bit. while it's true that Cena was being pushed hard at first, Cena didn't just leap to the top. he had a very similar pattern that Bryan or Ambrose had. that's the "promising but we'll keep you in the back pocket" type and it's pretty consistently worked out.

Roman went backwards with it, he was always main event level and it only went up for the longest time. it also doesn't help that Roman went from one year everyone chanting his name in the rumble (because the alternative was Batista) to getting booed the next for winning. Roman can be "fixed" but it needs a heel turn, not because the crowd is booing him per se, but because his style and mannerism ranges from Mr. Cool to just being a fucking heel. it's completely natural. and he can play the same role too, just keep not giving a fuck, give the same promos, come out the same way, and beat up faces.

it's working for BRAAAAAAUUUUN!


but Roman's been working heel 80% of the time while being booked as a face, it's weird. that win over Taker is just "you've got to turn him" written all over but noooo.
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A small part of me still thinks they'll play the standard "I'm turning against the fans because they don't care about me" heel turn with Roman, but realistically that's just wishful thinking. Roman would have to talk to do that, and he's still pretty bad on the mic. They have the perfect chance too, with the fans cheering him getting destroyed by Strowman. They just won't take it and they'll keep trying to push him as the sympathetic face because of it. Isn't going to work like all of Vince's other attempts, but he's going to try it.
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Yeah, regardless of what they do with him, he REALLY needs to shut up. Either make him totally silent, or give him a manager (not Heyman)
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That made me think that if they do actually pull the trigger on the heel turn, they'll pair him with Heyman. The story of Roman being the one to topple the once again invincible Brock pretty much writes itself from there.
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i legit don't know how i'm supposed to boo the man that tipped over an ambulance after yelling I'M NOT DONE YET so he could murder his opponent for the third time.

like it hit comedy and awe at the same time.
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You're supposed to boo him because Roman is the face (in Vince's eyes), and Strowman is the heel (in Vince's eyes). Vince logic!
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Roman seems like he is such a natural heel. I feel like he would be so good as a ME heel at this point, I want to see it.
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RaidenZeroX posted...

That made me think that if they do actually pull the trigger on the heel turn, they'll pair him with Heyman. The story of Roman being the one to topple the once again invincible Brock pretty much writes itself from there.

all this would do is destroy Heyman (but yeah they'll probably do it, hopefully he refuses)
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