Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 400: The Ultimate Shill Ride

(+) Yeah! (+)

There are hundreds of jerks on Twitter that will take any opportunity they can to be negative about literally anything.

The question is whether those people represent the majority or not.
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Well I guess I choose empathy with a woman having stuff stolen from her instead of feeling the need to criticize and saying she deserves to be made fun of over it. Not that there isn't other criticisms to be levied here (once again, bad move trying to pass the blame on Maddox) but I don't have any desire to dog pile for the sake of "cause she did other bad stuff too!"
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Lopen posted...

There are hundreds of jerks on Twitter that will take any opportunity they can to be negative about literally anything.

The question is whether those people represent the majority or not.

right

to say that she was "cyber bullied" over this implies some level of repeated/targeted personal attacks above and beyond the normal everyday twitter mob of negativity, does it not?
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Lopen posted...

There are hundreds of jerks on Twitter that will take any opportunity they can to be negative about literally anything.

The question is whether those people represent the majority or not.

Considering one online bully is enough to convince someone to kill themselves in some instances, whether or not it's the majority is irrelevant.
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I think what they're referring to is the people replying to Paige when she made said statement with pictures of Xavier and Maddox, posting memes calling her a whore, etc. When I was looking at the responses last night, it was about 80% that, 20% support.
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SmartMuffin posted...

Lopen posted...

There are hundreds of jerks on Twitter that will take any opportunity they can to be negative about literally anything.

The question is whether those people represent the majority or not.

right

to say that she was "cyber bullied" over this implies some level of repeated/targeted personal attacks above and beyond the normal everyday twitter mob of negativity, does it not?

Considering the fact that she was trending on twitter, I'd have to assume it went well above and beyond the normal mob of negativity.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Well I guess I choose empathy with a woman having stuff stolen from her instead of feeling the need to criticize and saying she deserves to be made fun of over it. Not that there isn't other criticisms to be levied here (once again, bad move trying to pass the blame on Maddox) but I don't have any desire to dog pile for the sake of "cause she did other bad stuff too!"

Bro. You seriously keep misrepresenting what I am saying. I am saying she was asking for it with the way she's been acting. I don't condone it, I'm not saying she deserves a lot of what happened, but I'm not going to pretend like she did absolutely nothing to warrant the abuse she got over it. Does it balance the bad will that she's garnered? Probably not. But if you keep being a total ass, then eventually it's going to come back around on you.
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If someone kills themselves over one online bully that's natural selection at work. Yeah it sucks and I wouldn't blame the victim there, but I wouldn't exactly blame the bully either anymore than I'd blame a shooter who hits someone with a stray bullet on a firing range as they were wandering near targets during target practice.

Basically what I'm saying is if you're that fragile you should probably just not use Twitter in any sort of invested fashion. You're actively putting yourself at risk by doing so, because it should be plainly obvious these people exist reading anything anywhere on it. And the risk of that is much greater if you yourself are jackassing it up.

And anything related trending on Twitter just means it was a big internet event moreso than there was a lynch mob. I've seen #TagTeamTitleMatch trend enough on Raw to know it doesn't mean all that much.

Anyway I'm distracting from the point here and don't want to misrepresent myself-- I just feel she could've handled things a lot more gracefully there and that there are plenty of things to make fun of her for that are within reasonable bounds, how she handled the situation being chief among them, and that causes me to lose respect for her. I'm not trying to say anyone who slutshamed was justified or anything like that, but I do feel like that among people who should matter to a stable person on Twitter (ie non Twitter-trolls), it was a minority who actually did any of that and that it speaks to her character that she's playing up being the victim as much as she is rather than owning any of it.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Well I guess I choose empathy with a woman having stuff stolen from her instead of feeling the need to criticize and saying she deserves to be made fun of over it. Not that there isn't other criticisms to be levied here (once again, bad move trying to pass the blame on Maddox) but I don't have any desire to dog pile for the sake of "cause she did other bad stuff too!"

Bro. You seriously keep misrepresenting what I am saying. I am saying she was asking for it with the way she's been acting. I don't condone it, I'm not saying she deserves a lot of what happened, but I'm not going to pretend like she did absolutely nothing to warrant the abuse she got over it. Does it balance the bad will that she's garnered? Probably not. But if you keep being a total ass, then eventually it's going to come back around on you.

But that's kind of the issue: there's are two absolutely mutually exclusive things. Her erratic behavior shouldn't give people carte blanche to then use it as an excuse to mock and bully her when she actually is a victim.

You keep wanting to come back to "I don't condone it buuuuuuuuuuuuut..." when it should be just "I don't condone it and it was wrong. I don't like Paige, I think her behavior is irresponsible and she's going to have problems going forward, but what happened to her is wrong and we should be above using it as an excuse to criticize her."

I feel like that's the only response to this. Don't criticize but allow caveats to justify awful behavior from people.
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I'm also confused as to what she should be "owning" about this.

She should not try to throw Maddox under the bus? Absolutely. But what is there to own about topless pics and sex tapes being stolen? "I'm sorry Maddox's computer had to go in for repairs and someone took a video of it. That one's on me. My bad."
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SmartMuffin posted...

Lopen posted...

There are hundreds of jerks on Twitter that will take any opportunity they can to be negative about literally anything.

The question is whether those people represent the majority or not.

right

to say that she was "cyber bullied" over this implies some level of repeated/targeted personal attacks above and beyond the normal everyday twitter mob of negativity, does it not?

This is a bit of a strange stance IMO

If you are harassed on the playground by the same person every day, is it not bullying because it's the norm?
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I agree she was bullied and don't really think she should have been. It's one thing to talk ABOUT it, it's another thing to actually go start harassing her for it.

That said, I lose a good bit of sympathy when she just tries to blame Maddox
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If you are harassed on the playground by the same person every day, is it not bullying because it's the norm?

If everyone is bullied at all times, is anyone really bullied? Does the word even mean anything if it only describes the ever-present noise that simply exists when a ton of anonymous people are given the right to shout at celebrities?
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Owning it just means you own it. Owning something doesn't have negative connotations it just means you accept your role in whatever went down and represent it accurately. "We were consenting adults who were together at the time and we probably shouldn't have saved videos of any of it but what can you do" would be completely fine with me.

Obviously that wouldn't actually be her response since she clearly has some shame about the videos existing, but a more reserved "We were together and I was immature at the time, and if given another chance I wouldn't have put any of it on video, but none of that was intended to be seen by anyone but us. The hackers are the bad guys here and I'm thankful for all the support I've received in this awkward time." would do too.

I just don't like how she says "I will always take responsibility-- BUT BRAD TOOK ADVANTAGE OF ME." It's just a scummy thing to do particularly when Brad Maddox is the guy who had s*** stolen.
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SmartMuffin posted...

If everyone is bullied at all times, is anyone really bullied?

Uh, yes? Why is bullying considered an amount now?
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The point is being lost here. There's a difference between making jokes and being bullied, and we're acting like there's a massive Leslie Jones-level amount of harassment here. Any harassment is definitely bad, but let's not pretend that the vast, vast, vast majority of commentary weren't comments like "Xavier and Brad were on the same Paige." Which is, you know, a joke.
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SmartMuffin posted...

to say that she was "cyber bullied" over this implies some level of repeated/targeted personal attacks

well bear in mind, most responses don't even target her in the first place. it's very common for people to talk about someone without @'ing on twitter or whatever else. this is always the vast, vast majority and by default is never bullying since it's literally not targeted at them. if we're talking twitter, i'd expect 80%+ of tweets to fall under this category. and of course this doesn't count 4chan, 8chan, reddit, tumblr, etc, none of which would apply anyway.

beyond that you've got commentary, jokes, etc and only the smallest subset would be people saying offensive things to her.

wish we had topsy still these days, it'd make neat charts explaining all this. the biggest discrepancy with people going "i'm cyber bullied!" is that they'll count the stuff not targeting them directly, then get upset when you point out that's not bullying, that's just them going out of their way to see things said.
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Naomi's in at Mania. That's good. Injuries suck.
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Breezy'd be in, too, if he had just remembered the wristbands
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Can't stop laughing.
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RaidenZeroX posted...

Can't stop laughing.

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This is the best of things
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Lopen posted...

Owning it just means you own it. Owning something doesn't have negative connotations it just means you accept your role in whatever went down and represent it accurately. "We were consenting adults who were together at the time and we probably shouldn't have saved videos of any of it but what can you do" would be completely fine with me.

Obviously that wouldn't actually be her response since she clearly has some shame about the videos existing, but a more reserved "We were together and I was immature at the time, and if given another chance I wouldn't have put any of it on video, but none of that was intended to be seen by anyone but us. The hackers are the bad guys here and I'm thankful for all the support I've received in this awkward time." would do too.

I just don't like how she says "I will always take responsibility-- BUT BRAD TOOK ADVANTAGE OF ME." It's just a scummy thing to do particularly when Brad Maddox is the guy who had s*** stolen.

This, basically.

And Rock, I'm realistic. Like others have said, no matter what, people on the internet in the public eye are going to get teased and insulted. This is inevitable. And no matter what diva it was that this happened to, they would have been trashed.

However, there's a key difference between Paige and other people in WWE. Because Paige has publicly trashed her employer, lied about them, and made a damn comedy show out of her relationship with Del Rio. Outside of that, it's well known that she's also destroyed all of her friendships in WWE. She has destroyed a lot of her good will with people, and if you are going to be smug and arrogant enough to trash your boss and try to lie and play the victim constantly, then when you actually are a victim looking for sympathy, people are going to be much less willing to give it to you.

So when I say "She probably had it coming", it's her attitude and taking advantage of people's good will. I think trolling and harassing people is dumb and a waste of time, and I don't waste my time. What happened to her is wrong, but she opened herself up to this with her decisions, and even despite all of this, I was feeling bad for her. But then she does this backhanded speech saying she's taking responsibility for what happened and then blaming Brad Maddox. And then she wants to champion this anti-bullying thing. It just makes her seem disingenuous. Because Brad Maddox is also the victim of bullying. He literally had to close his Twitter account so his family wouldn't keep getting harassed, and instead somebody took it over and covered it in his porno pictures. But Paige doesn't want me to feel bad for that guy too, just her, because she feels like this is all his fault and she wasn't at fault at all. So no, if that's your attitude you probably have a lot of bad karma coming your way.

And that's my point. If you continually be a s***ty person, expect people to treat you like a s***ty person. And if you can't handle that, take a second to think about yourself and realize "Man, people really don't like me. Why is that? Maybe I should change that?" Because there are a lot of people who get harassed every day who are celebrities that have done a lot less to lose their good will with people, and I think those people are worth defending a hell of a lot more than someone like Paige.
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My reaction to Naomi coming back.

"Oh hey! Naomi is back, good for-OH MY GOD SHE JUST SPIKED NATALYA'S HEAD WITH A SIMPLE HEADSCISSORS ONTO THE RAMP!"
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

My reaction to Naomi coming back.

"Oh hey! Naomi is back, good for-OH MY GOD SHE JUST SPIKED NATALYA'S HEAD WITH A SIMPLE HEADSCISSORS ONTO THE RAMP!"

Natalya kinda spiked her own head, there. That one's not really fair to blame Naomi. >_>
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They really should have kept the mic away from Nikki.
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I'd need to see a replay, but I just usually assume Naomi is to blame for botches anymore. Do you blame me?
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Oh, it's perfectly fair to assume Naomi on most botches

But headscissor takedowns/ranas/stuff like that tend to be 90% the other person, which is why you sometimes get those hilarious instances of the person flipping a second too late
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https://twitter.com/mknhnr/status/846871835048394753
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I am reading a lot of "she doesnt deserve it but she was asking for it" whereas I feel the 2 halves of the sentences should be flipped to "she was asking for it, but she doesnt deserve it"

bullying is bullying, dont normalize it please by saying it's normal and okay if it's expected

also yay naomi
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The Hulu version of this week's Raw was bad. It was mostly them hyping up the 'Mania card. I'm almost certain there were only like 3 actual matches included.
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Managed to catch the Breeze/Fandango segment. That was really funny, good job those two.

We also enjoyed Miz's version of Total Bellas.
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muddersmilk posted...

Managed to catch the Breeze/Fandango segment. That was really funny, good job those two.

We also enjoyed Miz's version of Total Bellas.

As someone who hasn't been watching, I am shocked that those two are still employed.
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They have embraced the comedy jobber role. Those tend to always have a place.
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Breeze deserves more imo. They squandered him pretty much as soon as he got called up from NXT
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To the surprise of pretty much nobody.
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I don't know if Breeze ever had a chance on the main roster with that gimmick.
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Breeze is the #1 example of a totally wasted/botched call up, and Fandango is the #1 example of destroying a character's long term viability in the chase of a dumb viral fad. They belong together I guess.
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SmartMuffin posted...

Breeze is the #1 example of a totally wasted/botched call up, and Fandango is the #1 example of destroying a character's long term viability in the chase of a dumb viral fad. They belong together I guess.

What.

They literally, one week after Fandangoing went nuts, had him come out and say you all suck don't do this. They should have totally embraced it and made him face.
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As a heel! With the stated implication being "keep doing it because it makes him mad"!

But even if they made him face it still would have failed because it was just a dumb fad with a shelf life of like two weeks, but they acted like it was the next Hulkamania or something. You ridiculous people here in this topic were already penciling him into the WM main event because of how over you expected it to be, LOL
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Fandango vs. Sandow vs. Maddox


Sounds like a Biscuit Mania Main Event
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Listen man.

With enough booking, it could be a draw. And obviously have Summer in Fandango's corner for that match.
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So Orton went off to the Wyatt compound again to wreak some more havoc.

You'd think Bray would learn to lock the door or something.
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Panthera posted...

So Orton went off to the Wyatt compound again to wreak some more havoc.

You'd think Bray would learn to lock the door or something.

It burnt down... What door?
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If it isn't still standing to some extent, how have they both had super dimly lit segments in there without the sunlight ruining their whole cheap horror movie thing?
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Fandangoing would've had a much longer shelf life if Fandango embraced it, and not only that doubled down and started doing the stupid Fandangoing dance rather than his actual dance.

He could've been the next Disco Inferno. And you say "well that's not very impressive" but compared to Fandango's career? It definitely is. Lovable midcarders will always have a place.
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Lopen posted...

Fandangoing would've had a much longer shelf life if Fandango embraced it, and not only that doubled down and started doing the stupid Fandangoing dance rather than his actual dance.

isn't that what they did? I remember they acknowledged it and that killed it (and him) off in record time
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Pretty sure Fandango only ever acknowledged it in a "stop doing this!" context. I certainly don't remember him doing that dance ala Disco Inferno. And if they did it was well after he'd already been milking the "stop doing this!" angle that it probably came off as forced to have him go along with it.
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Oh right I remember what happened.

Fandango acknowledged it in that he started talking about the CROWD doing it. Never actually did it himself, but started saying like... "ahhhh... this section is Fandangoing... this section... is Fandangoing..."

Yeah that's stupid. His approval needed to be more subtle than that-- aka just do the damn dance and act like a babyface. Don't outright acknowledge the fad and encourage it. Rather integrate the fad into your character. Then the audience is doing the same thing the wrestler is doing and it basically becomes cheering for the guy naturally.
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Errrmm, question.

Is this year's Mania Weekend Takeover going to be seen as a show of the year candidate like Takerover:Dallas was?

It feels like there's less talk about the card than usual, but if anything they have more talent. I didn't check but when you have Roode, Ohno, Strong, Nakamura and co, you should be having a BoLa Night 2 level card at the drop of a hat.
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