Board 8 > Ciel nosurge (in English) - A watchthrough topic *Spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

You've probably noticed, but you can check if you're finished all the synthesis shop events you have available by exiting/entering the shop to see if a new scene triggers.
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...There are different conversations if I craft things using Team Cass or Team Ion. RIP any further meaningful progress for the next little while, I'm currently crafting all of Sarly's items again with Ion
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*thumbs up*
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lol

I was going to tell you that but figured you'd discover that for yourself.
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Apologies once again for the delayed Ar nosurge update, but updating at this time of day is easier for me

I did progress the plot a little yesterday. Cass and Delta explored a new area alongside other members of PLASMA. This excursion didn't work out for those no-names because Prim showed up and sung a surprisingly unsettling song that fused them all into another 8th dimensional being. Cass and Delta beat it up, then rushed back to Felion to find that the city had been attacked. Undou went off to see Sarly and together they hoped to come up with a plan, but Cass and Delta didn't wait around. They rushed to the Flask Sea, hoping to put an end to this.

Meanwhile. Ion went back to Felion and found that the city had been attacked in her absence, leaving only a few survivors guarded by Nay. She also found Nelo and Prim, who helpfully informed her that their plan was nearing completion and Ion should come to the Flask Sea. Hoping to rescue the captured humans, she did so, and that meant running into Undou along the way. He'd been injured and couldn't carry out the plan he'd made with Sarly, so he handed it off to Ion.

These separate plotlines collided in the quasar storage room, where Zill was still going on about becoming the most powerful soul in order to guide humanity. I hate Zill so much, she should at least get a new evil plan. Anyway, this involved fusing all the humans as well as Ion/Nelo into her body as an 8th dimensional super-being, all backed up by the unsettling song sung by Prim. Ion couldn't stop them, but Cass/Delta showed up in time to be given Undou's song and go to work. This led to a boss fight against transformed Zill as the two songs clashed. This boss fight also took a decently long time, I'm probably due for some grinding again.

Regardless, they won. I'm not a hundred percent clear what happened at the end there, though. Zill was still transformed, but I guess she's probably powerless since they managed to rescue Ion, Prim, and Nelo in addition to sealing her inside. Undou was saddened that he couldn't stop his former lover, leaving me to wonder how anyone could ever love Zill.

A lot of neat things happened in the aftermath, too. Everyone talked to everyone, starting with Undou revealing who he really was (sorry bro, Sarly's genometrics beat you to it). There was also a strange scene with Nelo talking to Ion and Earthes, saying cryptic things meant for me (the player) specifically. When I switched back to Delta, I used that information to win a game of hide and seek. This... is actually pretty frightening. Until now I hadn't even considered the implications of Delta/Earthes controlling so similarly, but now things are starting to blur between them. I'm even getting to pick dialogue options with Delta, which seems to be making him really uncomfortable. Nelo phrased it almost like I was the bad guy in this scenario, but I don't feel like a bad guy. I'd free Delta if I had the power, especially since that'd mean I could play alongside Ion more!

I feel like I still haven't fully realized the implications of this revelation, especially since I then promptly spent the rest of the session crafting Nay/Sarly items with Ion, but I will say that this is a neat twist. Ar nosurge has been a lot of fun so far but this feels like the moment where the plot is starting to get serious.

The other thing I want to talk about is Prim. I get that she was an innocent child, and then there was a two year timeskip where Zill and Nelo could brainwash her. I also realize that Delta is a terrible father (my child is scared of my when I turn into a 'demon', I know, I'll slap her!) but still. She honestly seems to think she's doing the right thing, but... it should be super obvious that cooperating with Zill is never the right thing. I hope Prim manages to break free and go back to being a cute genom again.
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Robazoid posted...

Prim showed up and sung a surprisingly unsettling song that fused them all into another 8th dimensional being.

You should actually recognize the song. It's the one Zill sung in Chapter 12 of Ciel. Well, part of it.

Robazoid posted...

Ion couldn't stop them, but Cass/Delta showed up in time to be given Undou's song and go to work. This led to a boss fight against transformed Zill as the two songs clashed.

ya go my Class::EXPAJA both songs great here

Robazoid posted...

There was also a strange scene with Nelo talking to Ion and Earthes, saying cryptic things meant for me (the player) specifically. When I switched back to Delta, I used that information to win a game of hide and seek. This... is actually pretty frightening. Until now I hadn't even considered the implications of Delta/Earthes controlling so similarly, but now things are starting to blur between them. I'm even getting to pick dialogue options with Delta, which seems to be making him really uncomfortable.

yesssssssssss

Nelo abruptly breaking off her conversation to look directly at the screen and talk with you is a top-tier moment. I think it's a bit different depending on the order you do things. But for me, she did it when I was controlling Delta which makes it even more shocking because wait Delta?

Robazoid posted...

I feel like I still haven't fully realized the implications of this revelation, especially since I then promptly spent the rest of the session crafting Nay/Sarly items with Ion, but I will say that this is a neat twist. Ar nosurge has been a lot of fun so far but this feels like the moment where the plot is starting to get serious.

A+ twist/development imo.
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xp1337 posted...

But for me, she did it when I was controlling Delta which makes it even more shocking because wait Delta?

Oh man, that would've been even more freaky.

I still think Zill is responsible for whatever happened to Delta (after all, she's responsible for all human suffering) but I'm no longer sure it was for something as meager as having Delta open the barrier at Felion. I'm super interested to start piecing together the whole story
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Yeah, IIRC, Delta starts asking her wtf she's talking about and she says something like, "I'm not talking to you" then turns so she's facing the screen/you/the player and goes, "But you understand, right?."

i was legit shook
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Agreed that that scene with Nero is absolutely fantastic. This is the point when the plot starts kicking into high gear~

I'm pretty sure I got it with Delta, too? Not 100% sure.
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Today's Ar nosurge update won't have much plot progression

The Soreil is in danger now because Zill switched their power source to life energy, which is steadily running out. Ion is heading to the surface in search of an airport with a spacecraft that can take her to the control panel to switch things back but I didn't play as her yet. Instead I followed Delta, Cass, and Undou as they went to Zill to try and understand her suicidal scheme. Well, Zill is still transformed, and that means she doesn't need the Soreil to survive. She kept begging Undou to join with her, once again completely failing to realize that not everyone wants to lose their individuality (especially when someone as vile as Zill would be the only personality remaining). Even Undou was disgusted and everyone left Zill behind. My one hope for this game is that they never try to redeem this monstrous person in any way. Zill doesn't deserve it. Oh, Cass partially fused with Zill and unlocked her genometrics again? Yeah, I'll get right on that (okay yes I will do this eventually but I'll refuse to enjoy it!)

Now they were stuck with the question of how to conserve power until Ion fixed things, and their best bet was to team up with Prim/Nelo (yay Prim is back to being cute) and go see Cosal so that they can stop generating some unneeded surface areas. However, getting in to see Cosal won't be easy because there's some tournament going on and he's refusing to see anyone who isn't a participant. Excellent governing skills, Cosal! With no other ideas, Delta and Cass wandered the surface and met up with Kanon and Tattoria. I think it's neat that an Ion/Tattoria event from awhile ago about transforming people into sharls will apparently be the answer to this sharl tournament conundrum, but finding these two also unlocked their shops and you can probably imagine what I spent the rest of my night doing.

Gathering a few scarce ingredients and completely finishing the Team Cass events with Kanon/Tattoria took quite awhile, but I enjoyed it a lot. I have a deep appreciation for all of these characters and I love just how many opportunities there have been to watch them interact. Even simple things like Kanon guilting Delta into performing the purification ceremony with her have been great.

Tomorrow I'm going to do a quick check to make sure I don't have any crafting or talk events that I missed, and then I'll do a big push forward with the plot.
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Glancing at an FAQ I feel like there are some dives that either you're missing somehow (which is weird because I don't think they're missable) or you just haven't had the DP for it so haven't mentioned them yet.
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I've definitely ignored a few. Off the top of my head there's a Nelico one with Ion, and with Cass there's Zill and Nelo. It bugged me in a few of the earlier ones when there was a 10k dp option I couldn't afford, so I figure saving those until later might be best since dp will naturally build up.

Still, maybe I should do a few of them now.
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You can always go back and re-do events if you want to see the high cost DP options!

biased opinion: do the nelico dive
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Ar nosurge update time. Remember how I was going to focus on progressing the plot today? Instead I just did a bunch of dives so let's talk about that.

I did Kanon's second dive with Ion first and it was pretty good. She needed to learn to believe in herself, not just what the Chimon taught her... but she can still rely on Ion too. Aww.

After that I did the Nelico dive, and this was the best one so far. It was basically an homage to Ciel nosurge. They explored the world and even went on a virtual date. There was some great info from Nelico too, she clarified a lot of lingering questions I had about the logic of her plan during Ciel. Of course, the real highlight was when I officially learned Ion was from Earth. She tried to bury those memories because she's afraid she might come to hate me because I am on Earth, but I was able to coax her out of this depression by promising to help her find the way home. Aww. I hope I can keep that promise and didn't just lie to her.

I also did Nelo's dive with Cass and it was great too. It's nice to see that her fun day with Cass still means a lot to Nelo. Delta also had his own version of breaking through his love's fears. They're not as great as Ion/me, but Cass/Delta are still a heartwarming couple. I liked that it was a callback to their promise in Chapter Five in Ciel (right down to the same words). It was especially awesome because Delta doesn't have his memories so he wasn't trying to repeat it. His feelings were genuine, and unchanged even after all this time and everything that happened, so he just happened to say the same thing. Awwww.

Lastly, I didn't do Zill's dive because screw Zill. I did appreciate that even Nelo's subconscious acknowledged Zill as an irredeemable ogre of a person.

Maybe tomorrow I'll finally continue the plot >_>
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Nelico's dive is indeed excellent for the reasons you mention. One of the best in the game (and series.)

Zill's dive isn't what I think you're fearing or even expecting so I'd recommend getting to it eventually. If for no reason other than I expect that you probably have to do it eventually to get to later ones for Cass, though admittedly I'm not sure of that.

Another pro-tip: If I have the order/what you've done so far right, Ion's next dive is god-tier so I'd recommend doing that when it comes up. Really all of Ion's remaining dives are excellent and on or above the level of Nelico's dive. it's crazy.

But yeah, lol, it's very easy to get lost in doing the dives and crafting. For what it's worth, I consider the dives to essentially be core material even if strictly speaking they're optional for the most part.

Anyways, hype for main plot regardless! Ar nosurge excellent all-around tbqh.
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xp1337 posted...

Zill's dive isn't what I think you're fearing or even expecting so I'd recommend getting to it eventually

The real reason I didn't do it was because I ran out of time but I couldn't resist insulting Zill

xp1337 posted...

But yeah, lol, it's very easy to get lost in doing the dives and crafting. For what it's worth, I consider the dives to essentially be core material even if strictly speaking they're optional for the most part.

The amount of time I've spent on crafting and hunting down talk moments shows I'd do them even if they were 100% optional! In fact, I did more than dives yesterday. It turned out I had a bunch of talk moments saved up so I had to run around to all the purification sites to do that. The best ones were about Delta learning Kanon destroyed all the cielnotrons on Dream Sphere. He imagined her as a delinquent going around taking things from people and breaking them, so he asked Nay about it and she trolled him super hard by confirming it. This is an excellent example of a small sequence that was greatly enhanced by having knowledge of Ciel nosurge!
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I finished Phase Two of Ar nosurge last time I played. I don't have much time before work and it's a long update so I apologize for any typos.

Delta and Cass wandered with Nelo and Prim, getting medicine to turn Cass into a sharl so they could join the sharl tournament. The competition there was hilariously weak and they were given the opportunity to go fight Cosal and receive one wish. That was a sweet deal that would solve their predicament but, sadly, Cosal recognized them. He's being really unreasonable, refusing to listen and saying humans would sacrifice themselves in the Flask Sea if they really wanted redemption. That's only a temporary solution, Cosal! And you aren't doing anything to fix the root problem so it would only delay things! I guess all that time hating humans as a disembodied soul in a quasar messed him up but Cosal isn't a very good leader.

Regardless, they were interrupted by another disaster as more land disappeared, stranding some sharls. Delta wanted to save them and even managed to convince Nay to help, which was nice. However, I want to mention how effectively this game is using the narrative device of me controlling Delta. Cass happily said that he'd changed since he no longer hated the sharls... and then a dialogue choice popped up and immediately I realize that this isn't Delta at all. This is me controlling him and now I feel like a jerk. Even worse, Prim appears to be going crazy or... something. She seemed convinced humans could be good, but then she exploded the room and ran off with Nelo to help Zill. Even Nelo seemed confused so I'm hopeful they'll explain this later.

Anyway, I switched to Team Ion after that. She went to the airport, hooked Earthes up to the Soreil to unlock a spaceship, then flew to the control platform. She tried to switch the power source but couldn't do that until someone switched off the power, so I went back to Team Cass. They took a spaceship up to the Star Singer's Platform where the Ar nosurge tube is. They also found an alternate dimension Nelo at a random purification site, ready to do the ceremony. I hadn't expected this and it feels kind of random, but that's okay because talking with a friendly Nelo has been fun so far!

With everyone in place, it was time for the big finale. First, Delta finally admitted what was going on with him to Cass in a nice scene. Then they approached the Ar nosurge tube with renewed purpose and switched off the power. That allowed Ion to start her song, but Prim and Nelo showed up to try and stop her. Earthes defended Ion while Cass/Delta held back Zill (with some help from a grateful Cosal, since Nay helped the sharls). Everything seemed to be going well until Prim destroyed Earthes in a sad cutscene, leaving Ion to tearfully collapse. Cass/Delta also ran into some trouble when he entered the Ar nosurge tube to try and get his body back. I picked the nice dialogue options, trying to say I didn't choose any of this but I'm trying to help, but he struggled for freedom. Then Cass destroyed the whole tube, which... seems like a bad idea? I thought the Soreil needed that for something more than 7th dimensional control, and wouldn't Earthes be using this too?

Well, apparently not, because Phase Three began with Ion rebuilding his body and rescuing him from Nelico's world again. Earthes looks like a Geth now, that's kind of sweet! I haven't progressed the plot much past this point, I just ran around looking for new recipes. There was a sad event in Tattoria's shop where it was confirmed that Vio's human partner died in the Flask Sea. I also met up with Delta and was happy to see that they were mad at Nay and Sarly for being dishonest about his situation to Cass, rather than being angry at me. Now that I think about it, I wonder if they even know Earthes was the one controlling Delta. Anyway, I assume I'll regain control soon because Delta still has a lot of talk events to unlock, but I'll play more later.
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My final comment today is that Nay thinks Shirotaka and Renall are dead. Shirotaka I know is alive because Sarly is talking to him and he's been in nearly every genometrics... but now I'm worried about Renall. I haven't seen a hint of her in genometrics, so maybe she really is dead? I was halfway hoping I'd get to do the purification ceremony with her like I have every single other female character, so this sucks. Renall is great.
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End of Phase 2 so hype.

The Cass/Delta conversations about what Delta is going through are really emotional. Ion's side is great. XIO_PROCEED (Ion's song) is amazing. And that Earthes getting destroyed cutscene and Ion's reaction. =(

Robazoid posted...

However, I want to mention how effectively this game is using the narrative device of me controlling Delta. Cass happily said that he'd changed since he no longer hated the sharls... and then a dialogue choice popped up and immediately I realize that this isn't Delta at all.

Yeah, it's a really awkward feeling and utilized very well.

Robazoid posted...

They also found an alternate dimension Nelo at a random purification site, ready to do the ceremony. I hadn't expected this and it feels kind of random, but that's okay because talking with a friendly Nelo has been fun so far!

Hahaha, it is pretty random. Nelo as a purification partner is one of the additions made in the Plus version compared to the original where that just isn't a thing. You may have mentioned this earlier and you've probably realized it regardless, but like with crafting you know that Earthes has his own talk topics with the various purification partners and vice versa, right?

Robazoid posted...

Cass/Delta also ran into some trouble when he entered the Ar nosurge tube to try and get his body back. I picked the nice dialogue options, trying to say I didn't choose any of this but I'm trying to help, but he struggled for freedom.

Another change in Plus (I... think, I'm not totally sure what the various options are in all situations) is that you even have nice options. In the PS3 version, if you're in a game not linked to Ciel (which is every localized version of course) you only have jerk options with the nicer ones locked to a linked game. I think the localized Plus changes that. But I'm not 100% sure.

Robazoid posted...

Then Cass destroyed the whole tube, which... seems like a bad idea? I thought the Soreil needed that for something more than 7th dimensional control, and wouldn't Earthes be using this too?

Yeah, this is something where I wish my memory is more solid because this seems like a valid point but I just don't remember enough detail to explain what exactly was going on there to help try to clear things up. Sorry!
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xp1337 posted...

Yeah, this is something where I wish my memory is more solid because this seems like a valid point but I just don't remember enough detail to explain what exactly was going on there to help try to clear things up. Sorry!

Don't worry, that's mostly just me thinking out loud to piece together what happened. Unless it feels like a major plot hole stuff like that doesn't bother me much.

Also, I do know about the purification partners (except for Cass and Ion) being available for both. It'd be nice if they angled Earthes' camera down for those! Nay, Sarly, and Nelo are all barely peeking over the text box from that first-person perspective >_>

As for dialogue options, I'm glad they unlocked the nice ones in this version because I felt like enough of a jerk to Delta already in that scene. I wonder if dialogue choices impact anything though, because it seems possible to play Earthes as an evil pervert and it's hard to imagine how that wouldn't change things. I'm almost tempted to replay the game just to see the reaction to stuff like "I want to eat Ion' and 'Cass belongs to me'
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xp1337 posted...

XIO_PROCEED

Such a great song, yeah. One of my favorite lines in it goes "The touch of your cold hands / against my skin / is the softest I've ever felt," which is just so <3

I think you're right about there only being jerk options at that point without a link? I can't remember. I certainly remember feeling like a jerk at that part of the plot, but of course I did >_>
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dowolf posted...

Such a great song, yeah. One of my favorite lines in it goes "The touch of your cold hands / against my skin / is the softest I've ever felt," which is just so <3

Aww, those are great lyrics.

Also, to answer my earlier confusion, I think I figured out what happened regarding the destroyed Ar nosurge tube. The history section that outlines game events said something like 'Delta struggled to cut his connection to the Ar nosurge tube, so Cass intervened and destroyed it'. I think they meant she destroyed the connection specifically, somehow, because they went back there later and the tube was fine. I just misunderstood that line from the history section.

Anyway, here's an update of what I've done of Phase Three of Ar nosurge so far.

The heroes needed to find Prim/Nelo before the used Earthes' old head to control the Soreil, and visiting Sarly told them they were in the same place as Doctor Leolm. However, he refused to tell them where that was, so it was time to get creative. I'm not sure why the game keeps saying 'Delta and Cass side is now available' when it really means 'Channel two is available' but whatever, I switched over to the viewpoint of Earthes' old head after Nelo turned it on. I'm not sure why Nelo is quietly helping the heroes, but oh well, I got to hear their evil plan! They were heading off to the Hymmnesphere, so the next step was to figure out where that was.

I liked the twist that came next when they realized the Soreil literally hasn't moved at all during these thousands of years, so the Hymmnesphere is nearby. Team Ion rushed over and found Prim and Nelo talking to a brainwashed Renall (yay Renall is alive! Also, boo Nelo for scrambling Renall's mind). Shirotaka finally came back too when he almost destroyed the Hymmnesphere, even after driving Prim and Nelo off. It's also been revealed that Prim has been subjected to Interdimend as well, which is freaky considering what that might do to such an innocent person. Whoever is controlling her is an actual jerk, which makes me feel better about how I've been interacting with the characters at least!

Ion wanted to fix Renall's mind but dire situations got in the way of that for awhile. The Flask Sea rose, trapping Delta, Cass, and Undou. Ion jumped down from above in time to rescue them, but Undou had already merged with Zill to try and quell her idiotic desires from within (Undou is great). After escaping, it was time for Delta to face facts. As much as it sucked having me control his body, I was pretty damn good at controlling it. After some soul-searching and a discussion with Cass, he decided the situation demanded a temporary connection back to Interdimend.

I appreciated their date on the way up to the Ar nosurge tube. These characters have been dancing around each other for like a hundred hours now (despite several love confessions along the way) so seeing them finally, officially trying to be together is nice. Then at the end, I figured Cass would say something like 'I want you to kiss me' but nope, time for some implied off-screen sex! Good for them.

Once Delta fell asleep, Cass went to Earthes' old head that they'd been carrying around all day and had a conversation with me specifically. This was another top-tier moment in a game filled with top-tier moments. She hopes I'm a good guy and asks that I end this quickly, for Delta's sake, because she doesn't want to lose him. I honestly meant it when I thanked her and said I'd do my best.

Other than some miscellaneous crafting, that was where I stopped. Sarly seems to have accepted her feelings for Shirotaka (not sure how he'll feel about dating a girl who still looks thirteen given how uncomfortable he was being in her bedroom in Ciel!) but I hope they work it out too. Next, I think I'm going to switch to Ion and see if I can progress far enough to unscramble Renall because she's the best.
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Robazoid posted...

It's also been revealed that Prim has been subjected to Interdimend as well, which is freaky considering what that might do to such an innocent person. Whoever is controlling her is an actual jerk, which makes me feel better about how I've been interacting with the characters at least!

Oh man. "Player Two" the worst. the dark side of interdimend right there.

Robazoid posted...

Once Delta fell asleep, Cass went to Earthes' old head that they'd been carrying around all day and had a conversation with me specifically. This was another top-tier moment in a game filled with top-tier moments.

It really is. That's such a good moment. Might be my favorite from the Cass/Delta side. <3 that conversation with Cass.
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I played a bit more of Phase Three in Ar nosurge

I had to progress Team Cass a bit before I could help Renall because her memory was filled with traps left by Nelo. They didn't get very far, they just jumped back down to fight Zill without a plan and Nelo was there to call them out on it. Prim showed up as well (I like the idea of her being controlled by Player Two, I'm going to use that!) and made sure Nelo was absorbed by Zill too since she'd been screwing with her plans. Delta and Cass had to flee, but at least they got valuable information about how Ion could fix Renall's memories.

So, that's what I did next. Sharls from Nelico's world returned Renall's memories. Ion was happy... but continuing with Renall's genometrics revealed another side of her. Obviously I love Ion as a character, but the one thing I always felt she was missing was anger. Not to the extent of Zill or even Nelo, but... she was too much of a saint. Ion was incapable of being angry, even for a moment, even with people who truly deserved it. I feel like I'm not being clear here so let me say, that wasn't a mark against her. It just felt like a missed opportunity for an additional layer of characterization.

Well, Renall's genometrics addressed this problem! It was a shared soulscape, half consisting of Renall's guilt and the other half ruled by Ion's anger. Renall may have been one of the kinder Tenmon operatives, but she was still partly responsible for the torment I remember from those chilling Ciel nosurge audio CDs. And Ion was pissed, going so far as to murder Renall over and over again. She even turned her back on me, forcing me to take an unfair quiz over and over until I passed and then mocking me for needing more than one try. It was a scary side to her, and I was glad to dispel it and help her and Renall make up... but I also loved seeing Ion like this. There was anger, lurking deep in her heart, and it improves her character a lot now that I know that.

Which brings me to Ion's next genometrics! I have a feeling this is the final one from her because it wrapped everything up. She met with Nay, Kanon, and Renall, overcoming all of the things about herself that she never thought she'd be able to get past. There was also a callback to that book she wrote, Filament Star, as she made one final connection with Earthes.

So, yeah. That session was Ion-heavy but Ion is a great character!
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Robazoid posted...

Well, Renall's genometrics addressed this problem! It was a shared soulscape, half consisting of Renall's guilt and the other half ruled by Ion's anger. Renall may have been one of the kinder Tenmon operatives, but she was still partly responsible for the torment I remember from those chilling Ciel nosurge audio CDs. And Ion was pissed, going so far as to murder Renall over and over again. She even turned her back on me, forcing me to take an unfair quiz over and over until I passed and then mocking me for needing more than one try. It was a scary side to her, and I was glad to dispel it and help her and Renall make up... but I also loved seeing Ion like this. There was anger, lurking deep in her heart, and it improves her character a lot now that I know that.

Renall's dive is the best. In the game. And in the series as a whole (The Ar tonelico games have diving too although the concept is a bit different.)

When Ion just unleashes on you personally for it all only being a game to you and throws the quiz in your face as proof that you don't really know anything about the real her and all the rest of it. I think that was the most powerful moment in the game for me, especially because it's Ion doing it, who as you mentioned, never showed this side to her ever before. Not that Ion wasn't already up there, but that dive is what cemented her as one of my all time favorite characters, if not the #1 spot. And no, I absolutely get what you mean by Ion not expressing anger in the past. She absolutely benefits as a character from showing this side of her IMO.

Robazoid posted...

Which brings me to Ion's next genometrics! I have a feeling this is the final one from her because it wrapped everything up.

It actually isn't, and I'm only telling you this because I actually meant to comment on this before but I guess I missed my chance!

I feel like it should have been. As in, "I honestly wonder/suspect the game screwed up in the order it unlocked the dives." In a way, I can kind of understand why the next dive could/might come after this but still not quite really. Not the way it happens. Like the concept/theme of the dive makes sense as something that could have been intended for after, but not the execution. Just giving you a heads-up because while I have no evidence it was unintentional it definitely did feel weird to me given a whole range of factors.

There's a bit more I could/intend to later say about dives but I think I'll wait until I know for sure you're there.
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xp1337 posted...

There's a bit more I could/intend to later say about dives but I think I'll wait until I know for sure you're there.

I'll do an update tomorrow but I just did a bunch of dives so hopefully what you were going to say wasn't a missable thing or something! I at least hope I can reset Shirotaka's, I missed a picture and there was a 90k dp option I didn't choose yet. Other than that and any others left to be unlocked, I've done all the diving I could
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Nah, nothing like that. Nothing in dives (or crafting for that matter) is missable AFAIK. Only a few Talk Topics. What I was going to say was basically an info-dump about Shirotaka's. I just didn't know if you knew yet that a Shirotaka dive was even a thing. And since you clearly do now, here we go:

-Trivia: Shirotaka's Dive was DLC for the original release. Plus has it by default.
-For Cass's version, there's eventually a point where you need to have done Cass's 2nd Dive (I think) to proceed. Don't recall Ion's version having that kind of requirement.
-At the very end of both you get like a survey question. It's a leftover from the Japanese version's link system... which the localization doesn't have. So it's meaningless. But still there so just answer it. >_>

Mobilezoid posted...

I at least hope I can reset Shirotaka's

Yeah, you can. Once you finish it you get the ability to do so for like 500 or 1000 DP or something. I may have more to say depending on what your update says, but I think I know roughly where you are there.
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xp1337 posted...

Nothing in dives (or crafting for that matter) is missable AFAIK.

there is exactly one missable crystal IIRC.

but you get a gazillion of them anyways, so it's not a big deal.
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Ohhhhhhh right.

IIRC, it's on Cass's side in Sarly's 2nd Dive. You have to pick "Can I transform too?" in the intro. It's missable because you can't repeat intro events typically.
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I got lucky picking that transform option then. It was too much of a Delta thing to say!

Anyway, here's my update for what I played Phase Three of Ar nosurge.

I progressed the plot a bit. Renall has song magic to warp them back to the planet at the end of Ciel nosurge. The plan is to send Delta and Cass so that they can hopefully set something else up on the other side because they don't have the energy for everyone. They briefly mentioned getting help from friends on the other side, though, and I have no idea what that means. Do they think Tele-kun is still alive? I mean, that'd be amazing but I doubt it! I got to the warp point with Delta/Cass but I haven't done Ion's side yet so that was where plot progression stopped.

As for dives, I did Sarly's first as a final 'screw Zill' to Zill. Sarly cloned herself into logical/emotional halves, but they were able to reconcile and both married Shirotaka (weddings in genometrics are a bit of a running theme, it seems). Zill's genometrics came next, and I didn't hate it like I though I would! It didn't try to redeem Zill and it had a neat concept by becoming quasi-Battle Royale. In the end, it turned out all this backstabbing and distrust was due to Cass' lingering resentment over how people treated her in the aftermath of Delta opening the barrier. She chose to trust in Zill, which backfired spectacularly just like it always does for everyone who trusts Zill. Once they opened Cass' heart it was revealed that she didn't have anything there, so Zill tried to erase her. Prime had to step in for an epic sacrifice, banishing Zill and reviving everyone else.

The final Cass genometrics was similar to the final Ion one, in that it was a nice examination of her overall character and relationships. Cass had been turned into an empty shell so Delta had to go around collecting attribute seeds from Nay, Kanon, Nelo, and Sarly (Ion should've been here instead of Kanon imho). He then planted those in what appeared to be an empty heart, which revealed what Cass truly had there: a heart that could nurture all of these positive attributes. This wasn't quite as good as Ion's final dive but it was still nice! I haven't officially finished it either but I imagine the embrace role will unlock after some story event with Prim given the revelations about Prime. Prime/Prim was born from their memories of Pram (the translation also botched his gender, calling Pram a girl multiple times), which is nice because it means they never forgot about him. I hope they can reconcile with Prim in reality!

Lastly came Shirotaka's, which I did last because Zill's dive confirmed Prime/Pram and I was afraid Shirotaka's might spoil something in Cass' final dive. Since Prime was alive and well at the end of this dive, too, maybe it did spoil something? I dunno, let's talk about the dive. First, Shirotaka allowed me to participate personally, which is good because it would've been awkward guiding Delta through anime harem shenanigans. The first part was a repeating day where I got into romantic situations with Cass, Sarly, Kanon, and Renall. Then, once I'd done them all, a new character showed up to convince Shirotaka that he couldn't hide in this fantasy world. We shut down the virtual reality and found Prime in the 'real' world so that he could have a final conversation with this representation of his brother. Overall, it was a nice look at Shirotaka's character, giving him a lot of depth without sacrificing his love for cute things.

The last thing I want to talk about is the resolution to Tattoria's crafting story. Earthes gave him his broken head to help make Felie's medicine and she was cured. Vio left to go live with her, which made Tattoria sad, but the whole time I was thinking about how he'd moved like two houses away. Sure enough the resolution is that Vio will still visit. I haven't finished all of the crafting here yet (too many recipes require ????) so maybe there's more, but so far this was a nice subplot with fun characters.
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Robazoid posted...

Zill's genometrics came next, and I didn't hate it like I though I would!

I told you!

Also "huh." I thought Cass 2 had to be completed to unlock the tail end of Shirotaka's dive (you can get like halfway down the "true" route, but it stops before you can find Prime.) I... guess not? It definitely locks for something because it did for me, but I guess maybe it's either Zill or just partway through Cass 2.
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I definitely finished Shirotaka's and I'm 80% sure I haven't completely finished Cass so I not sure what's going on with that.

Anyway, I'm at 55 hours played right now. How Long to Beat is usually eerily accurate when it comes to play times and it says 56 hours would be a completionist run. I'm definitely not going to make that time, but still, I must be near the end! I'll update tomorrow before I go to work
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I progressed quite a bit through Phase Three of Ar nosurge but let's see if I can't get through it without my usual wall of text! (EDIT: I couldn't, I'm sorry)

After guiding everyone to the former center of Ra Ciela, it was time to teleport Cass/Delta to the planet they originally tried to migrate to. This succeeded, and they arrived in some sort of amplification tower run by a little girl called Shurelia. She guided them outside where they were met by another guy called Ayatane. He recognized their claim of being from another world as similar to the myth of their people and confirmed it when Cass understood some song magic language.

With that, he led them to where they could speak with the planet's gods, and someone finally explained who these people are. It honestly hadn't occurred to me that the scouting party at the end of Ciel might've survived (they sent, what, fifty people? That isn't enough genetic diversity to create a stable gene pool!) but I guess they did. Sadly, the will of the planet doesn't want people from the Soriel to migrate here again because it would create disharmony. I hadn't expected Ar nosurge to have such a blatant anti-refugee political stance! Also at this point I'm pretty sure there are only a thousand people alive on the Soreil, they couldn't cause too much trouble

Regardless, I had to switch back to Team Ion at that point. Her story followed Nay as she tried to regain the respect of the people as Empress, but they refused to listen. Disheartened, she left with Ion on a journey to go see Kanon. The theory was that, since Kanon previously sung a song to pull souls from the quasar, maybe she could do the same thing with all the people Zill absorbed. Not sure where they're going to find bodies for all those souls but oh well! Kanon agreed, but she needed Cosal's power. They went off to see him, and I appreciate that he seems to have mellowed out. He still didn't want to team up with Kanon but he at least accepted that the blame was partially on him.

Not that it mattered much since they were interrupted by Zill and Prim, out hunting for Ion. Cosal held them off and allowed the others to escape, which forced Kanon to harmonize with Nay to sing the song instead. They needed power, though, and that led to another appeal to the people. They still refused to listen... and that was when Renall enacted her plan. She acted like she was still working for Zill and appeared to betray Felion. I'm embarrassed to say that I completely bought this when it was happening because I hate Zill so much that ruining Renall seemed like something she would do. Luckily it was all a plot to get Nay to stand up to her and win back the people. Renall wasn't ruined, she actually confirmed all the things that make her awesome!

The song was sung with the help of the people, Zill's power decayed (suck it Player Two, I may have taken a half hour break to craft things with Kanon but this game moves at my pace!) and everything worked out. Cosal even gave them the former heart of Ra Ciela as thanks. Then I switched back to Team Cass and the will of the other planet was surprised to see that they had the will of another planet. So... that interdimensional bag will be a plot point after all? That's neat but now I'm just hoping they explain how it works!

I stopped there but I should also mention that I finished Kanon's crafting story. She worked way too hard while trying to atone for past misdeeds (she also said she agreed with the plan to destroy Ra Ciela but... no Kanon, you didn't. You were dead when they decided that). Unable to accept anything but perfection, she eventually worked herself into exhaustion. It took Ion and some cute sharls to convince her that she was doing just fine, and Kanon was able to find joy in running a shop again. What a nice story.

My main objective for next time: creating a stable wormhole between worlds so that I can hopefully finish the other crafting storylines!
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Robazoid posted...

This succeeded, and they arrived in some sort of amplification tower run by a little girl called Shurelia.

As a side note: That tower is the setting of Ar tonelico 1 and Shurelia is a major character there with the planet itself being the setting for the Ar tonelico series. There's a bunch of nostalgia there for people who played AT1 in particular. Remixed songs and such, among other things. Though AT1 takes place several hundred years after Ar nosurge. This is the clearest way in which the two are linked. IIRC at the time of Ciel it was stated that it took place in the same universe of Ar tonelico, but it wasn't until Ar nosurge and that sequence in particular that showed they were far more closely connected.

Robazoid posted...

Sadly, the will of the planet doesn't want people from the Soriel to migrate here again because it would create disharmony.

disharmony being their term for "continuity errors" tbqh >_>

Mobilezoid posted...

Anyway, I'm at 55 hours played right now. How Long to Beat is usually eerily accurate when it comes to play times and it says 56 hours would be a completionist run. I'm definitely not going to make that time, but still, I must be near the end!

I was actually debating the idea with myself yesterday over whether or not I should give you a brief ending guide (i.e. how many endings, what steps to take to get them, etc.) No plot details of course. I think you're still like 1.5ish updates away from this becoming too relevant but I've been wrong in the past! So uh... yeah, if you want to know anything about that, let me know.
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xp1337 posted...

As a side note: That tower is the setting of Ar tonelico 1 and Shurelia is a major character there

Oh, cool! That setting did seem weirdly fleshed out for a place introduced near (I assume) the end of the game.

xp1337 posted...

I was actually debating the idea with myself yesterday over whether or not I should give you a brief ending guide (i.e. how many endings, what steps to take to get them, etc.)

Can you tell me how many endings there are and how different they are? I'm not too concerned about minor variations that only really matter for achievements but if there's significant content differences I'd prefer to see them all.

Still, you don't need to put in a lot of work typing something out! I could probably find a guide myself if you can tell me a plot moment where I should stop and look things up but I guess I'm not sure how feasible that would be. I'm also not too concerned about minor spoilers if you need to give something away to explain the endings
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It's not much work at all. >_>

even if it was you've seen how much i can type out on stuff!

There are 5 endings. A Bad/Joke Ending, and then Normal/True Endings for Cass and Ion.

Bad/Joke ending - In the course of the story there's an option that will cause it if you take it. You will very likely know it when you see it.

As for the other 4, there's Normal and True Ends for both Cass and Ion:

Once you start the final boss sequence/pass the point of no return you're given a choice which team to use for the first part of the final boss sequence. Whoever you pick is the ending you'll get. Normal/True hinges on having crafted (and presumably holding on to) a particular item (the very last one you can craft. It's crafted at Sarly's shop and is called ?A Miracle? before you craft it to see the real name.) If you have it, you get the True Ends, if you don't, Normal End.

tl;dr:

Bad/Joke Ending: Pick a dialogue option that should be fairly obvious as leading to a bad/joke option when it comes in the story. More detail: It's a conversation between Delta and Shurelia
Cass Normal End: Choose to start the final boss sequence with Team Cass and don't craft the ?A Miracle? item.
Cass True End: Choose to start the final boss sequence with Team Cass and have crafted ?A Miracle? beforehand
Ion Normal End: Choose to start the final boss sequence with Team Ion and don't craft ?A Miracle?
Ion True End: Choose to start the final boss sequence with Team Ion and craft ?A Miracle? And then there's one more choice you have to make but you should know it when you see it. If you don't pick it you functionally get Ion's Normal End albeit slightly altered.

The bad ending is missable because the choice is part of a story conversation so if you don't pick the option that leads to it the story marches on. I've always thought of the Normal Ends as "missable" but I never tested just tossing the ?A Miracle? item and seeing if that puts you back on them. Not even sure if you can or if that would work.

As for content differences... I'd say they're worth seeing, well the Bad/Joke ending will make you feel like a jerk so maybe you won't want to bring yourself to do that one. You do have to run the final boss sequence for each of the "real" endings, but you can work your way to the very end of the game and save before walking into the final boss with ?A miracle? uncrafted. Then run it twice for the Normal Ends, then craft ?A miracle? and you're set for the True Ends.

I'd save Ion's True End for last (or only if you only feel like doing one.)
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So as long as I avoid crafting that one thing and keep on top of my saves I'll eventually stumble onto a normal ending and then I can reload and do it three more times. That sounds feasible, thanks!

I'll try for the joke ending too but I won't worry too much if I miss it. I already accidentally saved over my file from when I was supposed to turn Ion down for that trophy so a platinum is out of the question this playthrough regardless!
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Mobilezoid posted...

So as long as I avoid crafting that one thing and keep on top of my saves I'll eventually stumble onto a normal ending and then I can reload and do it three more times.

Yep. Just remember to actually craft it after the 2nd time!
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I'll update later again but I think I'm finally finishing off the side content! All talk topics are done with Cass, I'm done with genometrics unless a new one unlocks, I'm mostly done with crafting (except for Nay who is angering me with a recipe that still demands ???? augh I don't know what you want I've been everywhere) and I've run back through most places looking for additional talk topics.

Hopefully I can finish the game tomorrow because I also really need to beat Ys Origin before the end of the month and I haven't started it yet >_>
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Alright, here's the update of Phase Three of Ar nosurge. I wonder if my inefficient hunting for purification chat topics and ingredients is why this game is taking so long! There really should be a guide for these things somewhere on the internet but I haven't found it.

First, the actual plot. Using the magic item-transferring bag that no one has acknowledged yet, I was able to set up a stable connection between the two worlds. This allowed Ion to take Kanon and Cosal over to the will of the other planet so they could purify their souls enough to become a will of their own, resulting in a boss fight as they struggled against their true nature. Meanwhile, Cass and Delta are giving Shurelia a tour of the Soriel even though he's starting to collapse due to interdimend sickness and probably doesn't have the time for such frivolous things. I stopped here, when Cosal told Ion to gather the seven pillars, because it felt like a prelude to the end.

I also finished the dives! I returned to the final Cass one to finish it, and yay, Prime is back! Then I went to Ion's and did the second Nay one. It was... weird. I understand the symbolism of the codependent relationship Ion/Nay/Kanon had formed, but it was still odd to watch Nay licking Ion's feet while a half-naked Kanon watched. I can't help but think there might've been a more subtle way to approach this >_>

However, finishing that one unlocked Ion's version of Shirotaka's dive, and it was great! It was basically a fictional story of Yuuki Nei's life, where she built a robot and tried to succeed at her dreams even though no one approved. Mostly she struggled to swim fifty meters, and in the finale her robot friend wound up sacrificing itself to ensure she succeeded. Overall it was a nice story, and easily my favorite of the two Shirotaka ones.

Lastly, I finished the main plots of the other two crafting stores. Delta had a cooking competition with Nay that he allowed her to win because he recognized that she enjoyed the restaurant more than he ever did. Sarly also came to terms with her feelings for Shirotaka, with Cass convincing her not to look for reasons why it wouldn't work out as an excuse not to try. These were nice subplots too!

As for crafting progress, I looked up how many recipes there are and apparently each shop has 48, with the final ones of each shop unlocking near the end of the story. Kanon and Tattoria have 47 recipes done each so that's fine, and Sarly has 46 but I'm hopeful she'll have that miracle item in addition to the final one. Nay is only at 43 or something, though, and I don't even know what ingredient I need to craft the thing that I assume will unlock other recipes. I'm already done her subplot but still, I want to see more crafting dances!

Also, I apologize for this, but I'm not sure how much progress I'll make in this over the next few days. I really need to start Ys Origin to ensure I finish it for Game of the Month. Still, I'll be bringing my vita to work and playing during breaks so there should be at least some progress.
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Robazoid posted...

I understand the symbolism of the codependent relationship Ion/Nay/Kanon had formed, but it was still odd to watch Nay licking Ion's feet while a half-naked Kanon watched. I can't help but think there might've been a more subtle way to approach this >_>

subconsciousies are very definitely not subtle things in EXA_PICO >_>
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Mobilezoid posted...

I'm mostly done with crafting (except for Nay who is angering me with a recipe that still demands ???? augh I don't know what you want I've been everywhere)

Hmm... assuming it's a late game one, maybe something on the Center of Ra Ciela or Ar Ciel? Wish I could be more help.

Robazoid posted...

Then I went to Ion's and did the second Nay one. It was... weird. I understand the symbolism of the codependent relationship Ion/Nay/Kanon had formed, but

Yeah. Nay 2 was the dive I was talking about when I said it was weird to me to have after Ion 2. Exploring the relationship of Ion/Nay/Kanon is a concept that I think could be done after that... but the way it was executed makes me feel like... it should have been before. As for...

Robazoid posted...

I can't help but think there might've been a more subtle way to approach this >_>

this. what dowolf said. >_>

Robazoid posted...

However, finishing that one unlocked Ion's version of Shirotaka's dive, and it was great!

Yeah, it's a pretty great dive!
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dowolf posted...

subconsciousies are very definitely not subtle things in EXA_PICO >_>

Well, they aren't usually that blatant!

Anyway, I didn't play much today, but I did get roughly halfway through Ys Origin so hopefully I can get back to Ar nosurge soon.

I apologize again for this lame delay when I'm so close to the end of the game. The month is ending and I need to beat Ys for Game of the Month! Still, playing Ar nosurge during breaks at work has its upsides. I'm running back through all the areas with Team Cass right now, fighting one battle in each spot. I'm hoping I'll find that elusive Nay ingredient while also grinding for levels and watching for any remaining talk topics. After that I'll move back through with Team Ion and do the same, so this is all busywork for a little while. Once I start it back up in earnest I'll hopefully be done with all this so I can focus on the plot all the way to the end!
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I'll do a real update later but I progressed the plot a little to see if there were any final areas that might have that Nay ingredient. So far there hasn't been but I got some new recipes so maybe they'll open stuff up

While doing that, I wound up seeing the Shurelia ending. It was alright as far as bonus endings go but I hope the real endings are more substantial!

I also felt like a jerk for basically ruining Delta's life by forcing him to do that just because I wanted to see what happened. Maybe Ion was right about me only treating their world as a video game
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Mobilezoid posted...

I'll do a real update later but I progressed the plot a little to see if there were any final areas that might have that Nay ingredient. So far there hasn't been but I got some new recipes so maybe they'll open stuff up

I'm looking at an FAQ (not the first time, but before I was hoping for an ingredient list and came up empty) and if I'm reading this right, if the one you're stuck on is ?The greatest gift? it does seem like it's gated behind a later Nay recipe. It sounds like it can be made after you get ?Sharl brainwasher? and ?Felion RNA?

Mobilezoid posted...

While doing that, I wound up seeing the Shurelia ending. It was alright as far as bonus endings go but I hope the real endings are more substantial!

They are!

Mobilezoid posted...

I also felt like a jerk for basically ruining Delta's life by forcing him to do that just because I wanted to see what happened. Maybe Ion was right about me only treating their world as a video game

Yeah. After I posted my endings post it kind of hit me, "You know, I really probably shouldn't characterize this as a joke ending. I mean, maybe as player expectation it's a joke but actually the implications of that ending are pretty horrifying. You use Interdimend to ruin Delta's relationship with Cass and abandon Ra Ciela."
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xp1337 posted...

I'm looking at an FAQ (not the first time, but before I was hoping for an ingredient list and came up empty) and if I'm reading this right, if the one you're stuck on is ?The greatest gift? it does seem like it's gated behind a later Nay recipe. It sounds like it can be made after you get ?Sharl brainwasher? and ?Felion RNA?

This turned out to be the case, as I'll go over in this Ar nosurge update!

Here's the plot stuff. Ion gathered the Seven and they all sung a song to turn Cosal into the will of a planet. Now they need to head to the singing platform to sing the final song, and that's such a 'final boss' hint that I held off from going there to do side-content.

As for that, I think I'm nearly done! I've seen all the Cass talk events, and Delta is also finished with Nay and Sarly. Earthes is finished with Kanon, and I assume I'll finish Nay and Sarly once I do their last crafting things. Delta is missing three with Kanon and a bit of research on my part shows these talk topics are actually missable and I missed them, so that sucks. They're both missing a few with Shurelia and Nelo but I don't want to run around everywhere again to find what I missed, I'll probably just accept this and move on.

As for crafting, Delta is done with everything except the miracle item. Team Ion has a few left with Nay and Sarly but I don't imagine that will take very long and after that they're done.

Lastly, and most importantly, I've beaten Ys Origin! That means I'll be refocusing on Ar nosurge again and will likely finish it in the next day (unless each ending is two hours long or something >_>) so this crazy journey is nearly complete.
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Slightly relevant: https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/620272-playstation-vita/75174352

I would buy Musou Stars in half a second if Ion and Earthes were in it (and if it ever got localized)
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Wow. Gust dominated that poll. I'm impressed.
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I've beaten Ar nosurge Plus! Well, technically I beat it four times.

I have a lot to say so I'll try to summarize the plot quickly. Everyone gathered at the Singing Hill to create a planet, but things started going wrong almost immediately when Prim intervened and turned the Soriel into a giant mecha. Player Two was being a real jerk about this too, legitimately treating this like a video game and actually seeking out 100% completion. How rude! Only I can do that, making these characters relive this traumatic battle four times because I want to see the endings. I'm the good guy! Also, Prim mentioned that the heroes had killed Zill, which surprised me. I thought they just removed all the souls she stole, in theory she should be fine. My reaction to this was half 'yay, screw Zill' and half 'wait I killed Zill and I didn't even realize it at the time, which meant I couldn't enjoy it. Screw you, Zill, for trolling me one final time from beyond the grave'

Anyway, they desroyed Mecha Soreil once, then again while Ion sung the song that birthed the new world (this was a beautiful song that I didn't mind listening to four times. Mecha Soreil's thirty second beam attack that it spammed every time I fought it can go to hell, though). This fatally injured Prim, but she was at least happy that they could create a new world. Everyone moved there, sung a song to naturalize Nelo and Ion's souls, and then they lived happily ever after. Except for Nay, who now has to live a lifetime of paperwork as the Empress. The end... of at least one version of reality!

There wasn't much variation between the first three endings. In one, Cass/Delta thanked me for helping and said goodbye. In the next, Ion gave a heartfelt farewell. In the third, Prim was revived by the miracle item and got to be cute again but otherwise it was the same. The fourth ending though, that one was different! Instead of naturalizing their spirits, Prim told Ion/Nelo about a place they could go where they could go back to their own worlds. They just have to go to the center of the universe (not even the center of the galaxy, but the actual universe) so I figured that journey would take a few trillion years. I was pleasantly surprised when the post-credits scene here showed that they'd arrived already somehow! An energy spike cut off Ion's goodbye here and Nelo was there too so it couldn't be as heartfelt, but I'm still happy that I could keep my promise to get her home in at least one reality. The goodbyes with everyone were sweet as well.

Still, my ending ranking goes something like: Normal Ion > True Cass > True Ion > Normal Cass. Normal Ion reminded me the most of the heartbreaking Ciel nosurge ending so it got bonus points. They were all great, though, and well worth going through the finale three times!

Anyway, that's the end of Ar nosurge Plus: Ode to an Unborn Star. I'm going to post this now but I'm also going to start writing another post with final thoughts for this odyssey as a whole, so check back soon-ish!
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Trivia~!

EXSPHERE_NOSURGE (the song you've previously described as unsettling) that makes a return in the final boss sequence in a longer form is amazing. Especially when you look at the lyrics and see that it's basically Player Two and Prim fighting for control with the former trying to destroy everything and the latter trying to protect everything. That's why it's so chaotic, the song is basically alternating between the two extremes depending on whose voice is getting through at the moment.

Also, not sure if this was one of the talk topics you missed with Alternate Nelo, but one of the last ones she has she basically all but states she's from the Normal Cass ending and basically tries to hint as strongly as she can about you finding a way to save Prim in this world.
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