Board 8 > Ciel nosurge (in English) - A watchthrough topic Spoilers

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xp1337 03/14/17 7:17:59 AM #151:	Robazoid posted... And why did Nay's voice change when she got the vocal cords even though Ion's didn't? She's ~~just using a different tone. >_>~~ I think you're being a bit unfair to Nay there. She was affected by the trauma she went through and had a completely wrong impression of Ion until Chapter 8, which all those videos occurred before. She thought Ion basically took over her life completely, and lived in luxury at the Imperial Palace. She wasn't aware that she was actually treated as a Tenmon experiment the whole time. As for her switching sides, she was only going to sell Ion out on Four Seasons to rescue Tabou. Otherwise, her starting to like Ion had mostly held her back and caused her to slow the whole plan down. If it wasn't a factor she wouldn't have taken detours and deviations from the plan. Yeah, Zill betraying her caused her to switch for good but I'm pretty sure if she didn't have Tabou as a hostage she wouldn't have done it. It just accelerated her allegiance shift all the way to the end. Clacket though, yeah, he was involved in a lot of dark stuff. But then he was obviously hiding out and waiting for his chance to atone in whatever manner he could for the things he did. The reason he went into hiding was so he wasn't captured by Tenmon and could work on his plan to send Ion back. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:875040398] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>And why did Nay's voice change when she got the vocal cords even though Ion's didn't?</quote> She's just using a different tone. >_> I think you're being a bit unfair to Nay there. She was affected by the trauma she went through and had a completely wrong impression of Ion until Chapter 8, which all those videos occurred before. She thought Ion basically took over her life completely, and lived in luxury at the Imperial Palace. She wasn't aware that she was actually treated as a Tenmon experiment the whole time. As for her switching sides, she was only going to sell Ion out on Four Seasons to rescue Tabou. Otherwise, her starting to like Ion had mostly held her back and caused her to slow the whole plan down. If it wasn't a factor she wouldn't have taken detours and deviations from the plan. Yeah, Zill betraying her caused her to switch for good but I'm pretty sure if she didn't have Tabou as a hostage she wouldn't have done it. It just accelerated her allegiance shift all the way to the end. Clacket though, yeah, he was involved in a lot of dark stuff. But then he was obviously hiding out and waiting for his chance to atone in whatever manner he could for the things he did. The reason he went into hiding was so he wasn't captured by Tenmon and could work on his plan to send Ion back.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
dowolf 03/14/17 10:36:20 AM #152:	xp1337 posted... In the PS3 version using the special move Delay Burst could freeze the game. So I just never used it. >_> Never ran into this in Japanese, though it wouldn't be the first Gust game to add an easily-caught crash bug added to the localization >_> Though I never knew about the TxBios bug; I wonder if that was in Japanese... EDIT: The answer is "yes." Also: I apparently had zero idea how TxBioses worked. So yeah >_> And yeah. There's a lot of karma houdiniing in the game. There's something weird about the fact that, after killing all of those kids, it's bringing someone in from another universe that's the straw that breaks the camel's back. Maybe because doing nothing meant everyone died anyways, while Nei had a life she could've lived in peace? shrug --- Nonsense. "Testing" is for when you're still guessing--and now, I have no need to guess. -- Agatha, Girl Genius <cite>dowolf posted [p:875047836] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>xp1337 posted...</cite> <quote> In the PS3 version using the special move Delay Burst could freeze the game. So I just never used it. >_></quote> Never ran into this in Japanese, though it wouldn't be the first Gust game to add an easily-caught crash bug added to the localization >_> Though I never knew about the TxBios bug; I wonder if that was in Japanese... EDIT: The answer is "yes." Also: I apparently had zero idea how TxBioses worked. So yeah >_> And yeah. There's a lot of karma houdiniing in the game. There's something weird about the fact that, after killing all of those kids, it's bringing someone in from another universe that's the straw that breaks the camel's back. Maybe because doing nothing meant everyone died anyways, while Nei had a life she could've lived in peace? shrug</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/14/17 4:20:59 PM #153:	xp1337 posted... She's just using a different tone. >_> It didn't sound like a different tone! xp1337 posted... I think you're being a bit unfair to Nay there. I guess, but I still don't like this turn her character has taken. Let me put it like this. Her desire to hurt Ion and get her original body back is A, and begrudgingly starting to like Ion is B. Before these recent videos, I thought B slowly grew until eventually it overtook A. I could respect that, how she was willing to abandon her hate and never get back something so important to her solely because she'd realized Ion was a good person. But now I know that wasn't what happened. She was conflicted, sure, but A and B were still more or less in parity. And then Zill revealed that she would never get her original body back and A lost a lot of weight. Nay didn't truly switch sides because of Ion, she switched sides because Zill betrayed her. It's hard not to see her as being deeply selfish every step of the way. As for Clacket... Video progress: 248/252 I watched a few more videos. I appreciated Nay calling Clacket out on his scientist attitude, but then he only showed regret over Ion and I started disliking him even more. What a tool. Science may be driven by curiosity but he still should've realized the broken lives he was leaving in his wake, or at least have the decency to feel bad about more than a single thing now. Still, the rest of that video had some legit information about the robot. I'm starting to get a picture of what Ar nosurge might be like, with the player controlling the robot on some quest to send Ion back home. Given how dire their situation seemed in that last video I watched, though, I have no idea how they're going to even make it there. I guess I'll see when I finish the last four tonight! --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875070076] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>xp1337 posted...</cite> <quote>She's just using a different tone. >_></quote> It didn't sound like a different tone! <cite>xp1337 posted...</cite> <quote>I think you're being a bit unfair to Nay there.</quote> I guess, but I still don't like this turn her character has taken. Let me put it like this. Her desire to hurt Ion and get her original body back is A, and begrudgingly starting to like Ion is B. Before these recent videos, I thought B slowly grew until eventually it overtook A. I could respect that, how she was willing to abandon her hate and never get back something so important to her solely because she'd realized Ion was a good person. But now I know that wasn't what happened. She was conflicted, sure, but A and B were still more or less in parity. And then Zill revealed that she would never get her original body back and A lost a lot of weight. Nay didn't truly switch sides because of Ion, she switched sides because Zill betrayed her. It's hard not to see her as being deeply selfish every step of the way. As for Clacket... Video progress: 248/252 I watched a few more videos. I appreciated Nay calling Clacket out on his scientist attitude, but then he only showed regret over Ion and I started disliking him even more. What a tool. Science may be driven by curiosity but he still should've realized the broken lives he was leaving in his wake, or at least have the decency to feel bad about more than a single thing now. Still, the rest of that video had some legit information about the robot. I'm starting to get a picture of what Ar nosurge might be like, with the player controlling the robot on some quest to send Ion back home. Given how dire their situation seemed in that last video I watched, though, I have no idea how they're going to even make it there. I guess I'll see when I finish the last four tonight!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mobilezoid 03/14/17 5:34:42 PM #154:	I guess I should also say I don't necessarily blame Nay for being selfish. She went through a horrible situation and that isn't easy to overcome, so it's commendable that she did at all. However, she overcame it in a less noble fashion than I originally thought she did and that can't help but hurt my opinion of her. If Zill was still truly willing to help her and Nay turned her down anyway, that would be great. As it is, I'm left with a sinking feeling that I don't know what she would've ultimately chosen had both options remained open. --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D (On mobile) <cite>Mobilezoid posted [p:875075200] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>I guess I should also say I don't necessarily blame Nay for being selfish. She went through a horrible situation and that isn't easy to overcome, so it's commendable that she did at all. However, she overcame it in a less noble fashion than I originally thought she did and that can't help but hurt my opinion of her. If Zill was still truly willing to help her and Nay turned her down anyway, that would be great. As it is, I'm left with a sinking feeling that I don't know what she would've ultimately chosen had both options remained open.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
dowolf 03/14/17 5:41:26 PM #155:	Mobilezoid posted... I guess I should also say I don't necessarily blame Nay for being selfish. She went through a horrible situation and that isn't easy to overcome, so it's commendable that she did at all. However, she overcame it in a less noble fashion than I originally thought she did and that can't help but hurt my opinion of her. If Jill was still truly willing to help her and Nay turned her down anyway, that would be great. As it is, I'm left with a sinking feeling that I don't know what she would've ultimately chosen had both options remained open. This is kind of my opinion of her, except I'm more confident she would've made the right decision in the end. I dunno. --- Nonsense. "Testing" is for when you're still guessing--and now, I have no need to guess. -- Agatha, Girl Genius <cite>dowolf posted [p:875075662] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mobilezoid posted...</cite> <quote>I guess I should also say I don't necessarily blame Nay for being selfish. She went through a horrible situation and that isn't easy to overcome, so it's commendable that she did at all. However, she overcame it in a less noble fashion than I originally thought she did and that can't help but hurt my opinion of her. If Jill was still truly willing to help her and Nay turned her down anyway, that would be great. As it is, I'm left with a sinking feeling that I don't know what she would've ultimately chosen had both options remained open.</quote> This is kind of my opinion of her, except I'm more confident she would've made the right decision in the end. I dunno.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/14/17 6:26:34 PM #156:	In that particular situation, I think Nay would have traded Ion for Tabou, but only because of Tabou. If Zill and Nero hadn't taken Tabou, I think she would have kept being indecisive until she ultimately decided to align with Ion. But I can't prove it obviously. She was obviously getting there almost from the beginning, but it was a slow, hard process. I'd even say Ion was winning that by the time of Four Seasons/that video, but just not totally enough for her to, in her mind, abandon her chance at getting her body/self back. Putting Tabou on the scale titled it enough to barely push her to betraying. She is acting selfishly, but at the same time I feel like your faulting her for not operating off the information we have about Ion. We know Ion is a genuinely good person but Nay (incorrectly) thought she was someone who was living the spoiled life she had before and then sees a completely unprepared and clueless Ion in the Trials which probably just infuriated her more because that's what they replaced her with? She doesn't know about Oversight or Tenmon's actual plans and she's seeing Ion through a distorted lens. She gradually realizes the truth but even then she has issues abandoning her goal of reclaiming her original body because that's been her driving purpose in life in the years since the switch and she has Fractel's death on top of that. But I'll stop arguing Nay's case from here out. character rankings srs buisness >_> --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:875078821] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>In that particular situation, I think Nay would have traded Ion for Tabou, but only because of Tabou. If Zill and Nero hadn't taken Tabou, I think she would have kept being indecisive until she ultimately decided to align with Ion. But I can't prove it obviously. She was obviously getting there almost from the beginning, but it was a slow, hard process. I'd even say Ion was winning that by the time of Four Seasons/that video, but just not totally enough for her to, in her mind, abandon her chance at getting her body/self back. Putting Tabou on the scale titled it enough to barely push her to betraying. She is acting selfishly, but at the same time I feel like your faulting her for not operating off the information we have about Ion. We know Ion is a genuinely good person but Nay (incorrectly) thought she was someone who was living the spoiled life she had before and then sees a completely unprepared and clueless Ion in the Trials which probably just infuriated her more because that's what they replaced her with? She doesn't know about Oversight or Tenmon's actual plans and she's seeing Ion through a distorted lens. She gradually realizes the truth but even then she has issues abandoning her goal of reclaiming her original body because that's been her driving purpose in life in the years since the switch and she has Fractel's death on top of that. But I'll stop arguing Nay's case from here out. character rankings srs buisness >_></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mobilezoid 03/14/17 6:48:49 PM #157:	I will say that Nay is an impressively tragic, complex character, and she definitely didn't have the whole picture yet. If anything, I feel like Zill's betrayal robbed her of the chance to eventually make her own decision, which is a shame because I would've loved to see what it was. I guess I'm more disappointed with the missed opportunity than I am with Nay. Making the decision for her was too easy. Tabou could be considered an excuse in that situation too. She'd feel horrible betraying Ion to get her body back, but doing it to save Tabou would be a good justification. After all, if it were really about saving Tabou she would've still offered the deal even after overhearing Zill --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D (On mobile) <cite>Mobilezoid posted [p:875080456] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>I will say that Nay is an impressively tragic, complex character, and she definitely didn't have the whole picture yet. If anything, I feel like Zill's betrayal robbed her of the chance to eventually make her own decision, which is a shame because I would've loved to see what it was. I guess I'm more disappointed with the missed opportunity than I am with Nay. Making the decision for her was too easy. Tabou could be considered an excuse in that situation too. She'd feel horrible betraying Ion to get her body back, but doing it to save Tabou would be a good justification. After all, if it were really about saving Tabou she would've still offered the deal even after overhearing Zill</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/14/17 10:44:42 PM #158:	Oh, yeah, it was an excuse, but my point was that she even needed to reach for excuses to bring herself to actually go through with it show the scales were in Ion's favor already at that point. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:875097871] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>Oh, yeah, it was an excuse, but my point was that she even needed to reach for excuses to bring herself to actually go through with it show the scales were in Ion's favor already at that point.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mobilezoid 03/14/17 10:59:06 PM #159:	xp1337 posted... Oh, yeah, it was an excuse, but my point was that she even needed to reach for excuses to bring herself to actually go through with it show the scales were in Ion's favor already at that point. That's a fair point. She certainly didn't want to go through with it even as early as dragging Ion to Planetary Maison in 3 instead of Tube Company. I'm just sad I'll never definitively know if she would've done it anyway or not, because that would say a lot about her character. It might be better to not hold this one recent video against her too much, though. I liked it better when I assumed she just slowly came to like Ion and that was it, so I'll go back to that. These videos about filling in story blanks feel almost like bonus DLC content so there's always the chance they didn't mean for them to have any deep character implications anyway --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D (On mobile) <cite>Mobilezoid posted [p:875098827] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>xp1337 posted...</cite> <quote>Oh, yeah, it was an excuse, but my point was that she even needed to reach for excuses to bring herself to actually go through with it show the scales were in Ion's favor already at that point.</quote> That's a fair point. She certainly didn't want to go through with it even as early as dragging Ion to Planetary Maison in 3 instead of Tube Company. I'm just sad I'll never definitively know if she would've done it anyway or not, because that would say a lot about her character. It might be better to not hold this one recent video against her too much, though. I liked it better when I assumed she just slowly came to like Ion and that was it, so I'll go back to that. These videos about filling in story blanks feel almost like bonus DLC content so there's always the chance they didn't mean for them to have any deep character implications anyway</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/14/17 11:03:33 PM #160:	Yeah, tbqh, the Nay and Kanon videos (except the final Nay/Clacket one) felt more like just bonus content on what those two were doing at various times. Though one of the weirdest moments I had in the watchthrough was the final Kanon video where I was watching it and went, "Ohhhhhhh... I know where this is going..." and then it never did what I thought. Which means I either constructed an entire elaborate theory about what was happening there at the time out of nowhere or it's explained in Ar nosurge/other content and I just straight forgot that and thought it was revealed there. >_> which made it really weird because as it was i couldn't quite understand the purpose of the video other than to show that kanon was there when the genomirai panic broke out --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:875099117] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>Yeah, tbqh, the Nay and Kanon videos (except the final Nay/Clacket one) felt more like just bonus content on what those two were doing at various times. Though one of the weirdest moments I had in the watchthrough was the final Kanon video where I was watching it and went, "Ohhhhhhh... I know where this is going..." and then it never did what I thought. Which means I either constructed an entire elaborate theory about what was happening there at the time out of nowhere or it's explained in Ar nosurge/other content and I just straight forgot that and thought it was revealed there. >_> which made it really weird because as it was i couldn't quite understand the purpose of the video other than to show that kanon was there when the genomirai panic broke out</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mobilezoid 03/14/17 11:18:29 PM #161:	Speaking of that video, I thought it was weird how they said the Genomirai Pandemic was a widely known global event when I'm pretty sure no one knows about Genomirai in general, let alone what happened there. I guessed they meant to say Cielnotron Panic (assuming that happened at the same time, I'm actually not sure) --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D (On mobile) <cite>Mobilezoid posted [p:875099991] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>Speaking of that video, I thought it was weird how they said the Genomirai Pandemic was a widely known global event when I'm pretty sure no one knows about Genomirai in general, let alone what happened there. I guessed they meant to say Cielnotron Panic (assuming that happened at the same time, I'm actually not sure)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/14/17 11:20:13 PM #162:	I'm not sure myself, but it would make sense because Nero would be the cause to both so it could easily be the same event, just one referring to the loss of life in Genomirai that was kept secret and the other being the publicly known Cielnotrons-not-working one. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:875100082] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>I'm not sure myself, but it would make sense because Nero would be the cause to both so it could easily be the same event, just one referring to the loss of life in Genomirai that was kept secret and the other being the publicly known Cielnotrons-not-working one.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/15/17 3:22:35 AM #163:	I just started video 250 but before I watch it I just want to say one thing I swear, if Zill screws this up for everyone for no reason yet again she will be at the bottom of my character ranking by about a million greater-than signs. --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875110671] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>I just started video 250 but before I watch it I just want to say one thing I swear, if Zill screws this up for everyone for no reason yet again she will be at the bottom of my character ranking by about a million greater-than signs.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/15/17 3:54:35 AM #164:	Time for some live reactions from video 250 Nay: ih-rey-an!! Zill: Gaaah! Screw it, Nay truly is the best character --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875111448] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>Time for some live reactions from video 250 Nay: ih-rey-an!! Zill: Gaaah! Screw it, Nay truly is the best character</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/15/17 5:14:25 AM #165:	Video progress: 252/252 + six bonus videos Well that was quite a ride, but first I'll go into my thoughts for the final few videos. I apologize for the long posts. First off, screw Zill. We already dealt with your BS in Chapter 8 and the situation was somehow even more dire this time around. If she returns in Ar nosurge I hope it's as the ineffectual reoccuring villain because I want to beat her up a few dozen times without her ever accomplishing anything. Cas picked up that syringe Zill dropped, too, and I swear if she injects herself with such a clear trap I'm going to be very disappointed in her. You know who is great, though? Renall. I mean, she really should've had a dozen guards in the room with orders to shoot Zill but this entire game was rife with 'why don't you just shoot them' moments so it's hard to hold this specific one against her. She kept her cool, organized a necessary coup, and then used the peoples distrust to her advantage to save all their lives. Renall is the best (aside from Ion and Kanon, obviously). I guess they're off on a space journey for five thousand years now, though honestly I was expecting a more conclusive ending than this. I know Ar nosurge will probably pick up right after this game ended, but Shirotaka even had what seemed like a big plot revelation in his final five minutes of screen-time! What's this fake name and secret mission? And what was with Nelico, anyway? All that big talk about intervening if memories kept being awoken and I still don't know what that was all about. Ar nosurge has a lot of plot threads to pick back up, hopefully it doesn't drop any of the important ones! And, speaking of conclusions... that wasn't how I was expecting the non-memory Ion story to end. I figured she'd switch the terminal over to the robot, it'd cut to a different perspective as I look down at her from a new vantage point, then Ion says something cool like 'Alright, let's get started' or 'Now that you have hands, let's go torture Zill', and then roll credits. But, no. For some reason they have to cut the connection entirely. I'd assumed the robot would be the hero of Ar nosurge, backed by all these memories and a love for Ion, but I guess not. Also, for the record, saying goodbye to Ion broke my heart. I can only imagine how much worse it would've been if I was playing and had all those little interactions with her too. Ah well, at least these bonus videos can cheer me up. "I decorated my room with red balls because they represent infinity and I want us to stay together forever!" ...Well, that's a knife to my heart. Merry Christmas to you too, Ion. --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875113163] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>Video progress: 252/252 + six bonus videos Well that was quite a ride, but first I'll go into my thoughts for the final few videos. I apologize for the long posts. First off, screw Zill. We already dealt with your BS in Chapter 8 and the situation was somehow even more dire this time around. If she returns in Ar nosurge I hope it's as the ineffectual reoccuring villain because I want to beat her up a few dozen times without her ever accomplishing anything. Cas picked up that syringe Zill dropped, too, and I swear if she injects herself with such a clear trap I'm going to be very disappointed in her. You know who is great, though? Renall. I mean, she really should've had a dozen guards in the room with orders to shoot Zill but this entire game was rife with 'why don't you just shoot them' moments so it's hard to hold this specific one against her. She kept her cool, organized a necessary coup, and then used the peoples distrust to her advantage to save all their lives. Renall is the best (aside from Ion and Kanon, obviously). I guess they're off on a space journey for five thousand years now, though honestly I was expecting a more conclusive ending than this. I know Ar nosurge will probably pick up right after this game ended, but Shirotaka even had what seemed like a big plot revelation in his final five minutes of screen-time! What's this fake name and secret mission? And what was with Nelico, anyway? All that big talk about intervening if memories kept being awoken and I still don't know what that was all about. Ar nosurge has a lot of plot threads to pick back up, hopefully it doesn't drop any of the important ones! And, speaking of conclusions... that wasn't how I was expecting the non-memory Ion story to end. I figured she'd switch the terminal over to the robot, it'd cut to a different perspective as I look down at her from a new vantage point, then Ion says something cool like 'Alright, let's get started' or 'Now that you have hands, let's go torture Zill', and then roll credits. But, no. For some reason they have to cut the connection entirely. I'd assumed the robot would be the hero of Ar nosurge, backed by all these memories and a love for Ion, but I guess not. Also, for the record, saying goodbye to Ion broke my heart. I can only imagine how much worse it would've been if I was playing and had all those little interactions with her too. Ah well, at least these bonus videos can cheer me up. "I decorated my room with red balls because they represent infinity and I want us to stay together forever!" ...Well, that's a knife to my heart. Merry Christmas to you too, Ion.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/15/17 5:16:13 AM #166:	RANKINGS: For fairness sake, I split 12 up like this: 12a- 12 up to the song and when the memories first ran out 12b- The rest 8 >>> 5 > 12a > 1 > 10 > 6 > 11 > 7 > 12b > 4 > 3 > 9 > 2 Ion > Kanon > Renall >>> Nero > Sarly > Nay > Cas > Undu > Greicoff > Telefunken > Ruray > Shirotaka > Tabou > Revelt > Pram >>>> Neptool >>>>> Clacket >>>>>>>>>> Zill Ion, Kanon, and Renall are all the absolute best in different ways. I sympathize with Nero, she's a good villain even though it's hard to consider her a villain. Sarly is competent and always a lot of fun. Cas had a legit chance to pass Nay but she blew it by picking up that syringe at the end and not realizing that Zill taints everything she touches. Nay never became my favorite, but she does have a lot of complexity and I appreciate that she keeps taking down the terrible characters. I mean, she shot Neptool, called Clacket out on his BS worldview, and owned Zill. How can I not appreciate that? Shirotaka and Tabou also finally came into their own at the end there, enough to pass Revelt. Hopefully that improvement continues if I see them again in Ar nosurge. As for the bottom tier, Clacket is evil and Zill is even worse. My only other comment is... poor Tele-kun. He's doomed on that planet with no idea what happened. Kanon died and I still say Tele-kun had the most depressing ending of them all. Anyway, this topic isn't actually ending because I'm going to start playing Ar nosurge tomorrow (I might even do twenty minutes tonight just to test vocals/subtitles and make sure everything works) but I still want to thank xp for starting me on this crazy road and everyone else who may be following along. It's been a lot of fun so far, and at this point I've been looking forward to Ar nosurge Plus for over a month so I'm super hyped! Just one question for those of you who played Ar nosurge (presumably) awhile ago. I've done a lot of FF playthrough topics where I sort of summarize the plot as I go along in addition to including my thoughts/reactions. Do you guys need that here or do you remember Ar nosurge well enough that I could say 'I just finished this section, screw Zill' or whatever and you'd know what I was talking about? I'm fine with summarizing the plot since, unlike with Ciel, you haven't just experienced it for yourself, but if it isn't needed I won't patronize you. Lastly, in case you check back, thank you to black_raen as well. This translation was an amazing thing and I enjoyed Ciel nosurge immensely. --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875113202] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>RANKINGS: For fairness sake, I split 12 up like this: 12a- 12 up to the song and when the memories first ran out 12b- The rest 8 >>> 5 > 12a > 1 > 10 > 6 > 11 > 7 > 12b > 4 > 3 > 9 > 2 Ion > Kanon > Renall >>> Nero > Sarly > Nay > Cas > Undu > Greicoff > Telefunken > Ruray > Shirotaka > Tabou > Revelt > Pram >>>> Neptool >>>>> Clacket >>>>>>>>>> Zill Ion, Kanon, and Renall are all the absolute best in different ways. I sympathize with Nero, she's a good villain even though it's hard to consider her a villain. Sarly is competent and always a lot of fun. Cas had a legit chance to pass Nay but she blew it by picking up that syringe at the end and not realizing that Zill taints everything she touches. Nay never became my favorite, but she does have a lot of complexity and I appreciate that she keeps taking down the terrible characters. I mean, she shot Neptool, called Clacket out on his BS worldview, and owned Zill. How can I not appreciate that? Shirotaka and Tabou also finally came into their own at the end there, enough to pass Revelt. Hopefully that improvement continues if I see them again in Ar nosurge. As for the bottom tier, Clacket is evil and Zill is even worse. My only other comment is... poor Tele-kun. He's doomed on that planet with no idea what happened. Kanon died and I still say Tele-kun had the most depressing ending of them all. Anyway, this topic isn't actually ending because I'm going to start playing Ar nosurge tomorrow (I might even do twenty minutes tonight just to test vocals/subtitles and make sure everything works) but I still want to thank xp for starting me on this crazy road and everyone else who may be following along. It's been a lot of fun so far, and at this point I've been looking forward to Ar nosurge Plus for over a month so I'm super hyped! Just one question for those of you who played Ar nosurge (presumably) awhile ago. I've done a lot of FF playthrough topics where I sort of summarize the plot as I go along in addition to including my thoughts/reactions. Do you guys need that here or do you remember Ar nosurge well enough that I could say 'I just finished this section, screw Zill' or whatever and you'd know what I was talking about? I'm fine with summarizing the plot since, unlike with Ciel, you haven't just experienced it for yourself, but if it isn't needed I won't patronize you. Lastly, in case you check back, thank you to black_raen as well. This translation was an amazing thing and I enjoyed Ciel nosurge immensely.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/15/17 10:33:00 AM #167:	Robazoid posted... Screw it, Nay truly is the best character redemption Robazoid posted... And, speaking of conclusions... that wasn't how I was expecting the non-memory Ion story to end. I figured she'd switch the terminal over to the robot, it'd cut to a different perspective as I look down at her from a new vantage point, then Ion says something cool like 'Alright, let's get started' or 'Now that you have hands, let's go torture Zill', and then roll credits. But, no. For some reason they have to cut the connection entirely. I'd assumed the robot would be the hero of Ar nosurge, backed by all these memories and a love for Ion, but I guess not. I will revisit this... later. Robazoid posted... Just one question for those of you who played Ar nosurge (presumably) awhile ago. I've done a lot of FF playthrough topics where I sort of summarize the plot as I go along in addition to including my thoughts/reactions. Do you guys need that here or do you remember Ar nosurge well enough that I could say 'I just finished this section, screw Zill' or whatever and you'd know what I was talking about? I'm fine with summarizing the plot since, unlike with Ciel, you haven't just experienced it for yourself, but if it isn't needed I won't patronize you. Honestly, it would be a help to me if you did. My memory on it is a lot more shaky, at least when it comes to what happens when. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:875122862] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>Screw it, Nay truly is the best character</quote> redemption <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>And, speaking of conclusions... that wasn't how I was expecting the non-memory Ion story to end. I figured she'd switch the terminal over to the robot, it'd cut to a different perspective as I look down at her from a new vantage point, then Ion says something cool like 'Alright, let's get started' or 'Now that you have hands, let's go torture Zill', and then roll credits. But, no. For some reason they have to cut the connection entirely. I'd assumed the robot would be the hero of Ar nosurge, backed by all these memories and a love for Ion, but I guess not.</quote> I will revisit this... later. <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>Just one question for those of you who played Ar nosurge (presumably) awhile ago. I've done a lot of FF playthrough topics where I sort of summarize the plot as I go along in addition to including my thoughts/reactions. Do you guys need that here or do you remember Ar nosurge well enough that I could say 'I just finished this section, screw Zill' or whatever and you'd know what I was talking about? I'm fine with summarizing the plot since, unlike with Ciel, you haven't just experienced it for yourself, but if it isn't needed I won't patronize you.</quote> Honestly, it would be a help to me if you did. My memory on it is a lot more shaky, at least when it comes to what happens when.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/15/17 4:00:50 PM #168:	As promised, I played exactly twenty minutes of Ar nosurge Plus last night. Subtitles seem to be working, though one cutscene had a bunch of Japanese text floating around but it didn't look important. The pre-title screen video was pretty good! It looks like the robot will be a part of the story after all. After some consideration, I also think I understand what happened at the end of Ciel. Ion needed the robot but she had to cut the terminal's connection in order to transfer that connection over, and once they did that there was no guarantee the same person would be on the other end. So there will be a robot in Ar but they'll be treated as a stranger, which is still sad because I won't actually be a stranger to her... Along with all that, Cas and Tabou look like they're going to be the main characters. Well, sorry, Cass and Delta (whose encyclopedia entry says he's Cass' childhood friend who used to be nicknamed... Turbo?). Tabou sure grew up into a tough looking dude. They said a little about suspended animation at the end of Ciel and the world seems to have changed an awful lot if it's only been ten or so years, so I'm tentatively guessing Delta and Cass went to sleep for awhile. Not much story so far, other than the opening about sharls attacking people on the Soriel. Delta had an odd dream about Cass and Sarly, but in reality he runs a crummy restaurant and has to help Cass track down Nay. I'm also really confused about the battle system still, that was a lot of mechanics to throw at me at once. Hopefully I get more practice with it soon. Anyway, I'll play more tonight! --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875143689] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>As promised, I played exactly twenty minutes of Ar nosurge Plus last night. Subtitles seem to be working, though one cutscene had a bunch of Japanese text floating around but it didn't look important. The pre-title screen video was pretty good! It looks like the robot will be a part of the story after all. After some consideration, I also think I understand what happened at the end of Ciel. Ion needed the robot but she had to cut the terminal's connection in order to transfer that connection over, and once they did that there was no guarantee the same person would be on the other end. So there will be a robot in Ar but they'll be treated as a stranger, which is still sad because I won't actually be a stranger to her... Along with all that, Cas and Tabou look like they're going to be the main characters. Well, sorry, Cass and Delta (whose encyclopedia entry says he's Cass' childhood friend who used to be nicknamed... Turbo?). Tabou sure grew up into a tough looking dude. They said a little about suspended animation at the end of Ciel and the world seems to have changed an awful lot if it's only been ten or so years, so I'm tentatively guessing Delta and Cass went to sleep for awhile. Not much story so far, other than the opening about sharls attacking people on the Soriel. Delta had an odd dream about Cass and Sarly, but in reality he runs a crummy restaurant and has to help Cass track down Nay. I'm also really confused about the battle system still, that was a lot of mechanics to throw at me at once. Hopefully I get more practice with it soon. Anyway, I'll play more tonight!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
dowolf 03/15/17 5:43:06 PM #169:	xp1337 posted... Though one of the weirdest moments I had in the watchthrough was the final Kanon video where I was watching it and went, "Ohhhhhhh... I know where this is going..." and then it never did what I thought. Which means I either constructed an entire elaborate theory about what was happening there at the time out of nowhere or it's explained in Ar nosurge/other content and I just straight forgot that and thought it was revealed there. >_> If you're thinking of what I'm thinking of, I don't think it was explained in Ar nosurge. I'm not sure if there's any bonus material that really covers that gap, either. Robazoid posted... So there will be a robot in Ar but they'll be treated as a stranger, which is still sad because I won't actually be a stranger to her... There's actually data importation in the Japanese version (rip U.S.). ...And yeah. You have clearly already reached the first instance of the official translation doing weird things. (The nickname in Japanese is unambiguously the "ta" from Delta + "bou," literally "boy.") The battle system is definitely weird, but once you get the hang of it, it's really fun. --- Nonsense. "Testing" is for when you're still guessing--and now, I have no need to guess. -- Agatha, Girl Genius <cite>dowolf posted [p:875151033] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>xp1337 posted...</cite> <quote> Though one of the weirdest moments I had in the watchthrough was the final Kanon video where I was watching it and went, "Ohhhhhhh... I know where this is going..." and then it never did what I thought. Which means I either constructed an entire elaborate theory about what was happening there at the time out of nowhere or it's explained in Ar nosurge/other content and I just straight forgot that and thought it was revealed there. >_></quote> If you're thinking of what I'm thinking of, I don't think it was explained in Ar nosurge. I'm not sure if there's any bonus material that really covers that gap, either. <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote> So there will be a robot in Ar but they'll be treated as a stranger, which is still sad because I won't actually be a stranger to her...</quote> There's actually data importation in the Japanese version (rip U.S.). ...And yeah. You have clearly already reached the first instance of the official translation doing weird things. (The nickname in Japanese is unambiguously the "ta" from Delta + "bou," literally "boy.") The battle system is definitely weird, but once you get the hang of it, it's really fun.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/15/17 8:17:24 PM #170:	Robazoid posted... The pre-title screen video was pretty good! It looks like the robot will be a part of the story after all. After some consideration, I also think I understand what happened at the end of Ciel. Ion needed the robot but she had to cut the terminal's connection in order to transfer that connection over, and once they did that there was no guarantee the same person would be on the other end. So there will be a robot in Ar but they'll be treated as a stranger, which is still sad because I won't actually be a stranger to her... dowolf mentioned it, but since you figured this much out I don't mind saying it now (rather than later.) There was Ciel -> Ar data transfer. It just doesn't exist in the localized version. It was actually more like a link than a transfer really, it worked both ways. You could unlock content in Ciel based on how far you were in Ar. As is though, yeah, since there's no ability to link in the localized version, Ion has lost connection to the Ciel player. and yeah get ready to see the localization make all kinds of weird name choices Nero has become Nelo, for instance. Feel free to ask if you're uncertain if something is the localization being weird or it's actually something new. Battle system is fun once you get a hang of it. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:875161377] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>The pre-title screen video was pretty good! It looks like the robot will be a part of the story after all. After some consideration, I also think I understand what happened at the end of Ciel. Ion needed the robot but she had to cut the terminal's connection in order to transfer that connection over, and once they did that there was no guarantee the same person would be on the other end. So there will be a robot in Ar but they'll be treated as a stranger, which is still sad because I won't actually be a stranger to her...</quote> dowolf mentioned it, but since you figured this much out I don't mind saying it now (rather than later.) There was Ciel -> Ar data transfer. It just doesn't exist in the localized version. It was actually more like a link than a transfer really, it worked both ways. You could unlock content in Ciel based on how far you were in Ar. As is though, yeah, since there's no ability to link in the localized version, Ion has lost connection to the Ciel player. and yeah get ready to see the localization make all kinds of weird name choices Nero has become Nelo, for instance. Feel free to ask if you're uncertain if something is the localization being weird or it's actually something new. Battle system is fun once you get a hang of it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mobilezoid 03/15/17 10:04:47 PM #171:	I wonder how extensive the link between the two games was. I'll have a better idea once Ion and the robot actually enter into the plot I guess but I'm worried that whole 'bonding with Ion' aspect from Ciel will be lost. --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D (On mobile) <cite>Mobilezoid posted [p:875168361] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>I wonder how extensive the link between the two games was. I'll have a better idea once Ion and the robot actually enter into the plot I guess but I'm worried that whole 'bonding with Ion' aspect from Ciel will be lost.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/16/17 2:46:57 AM #172:	Man it feels weird to not watch Ciel nosurge when I get home from work. Oh well, time to play Ar nosurge for four hours. --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875182846] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>Man it feels weird to not watch Ciel nosurge when I get home from work. Oh well, time to play Ar nosurge for four hours.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/16/17 7:18:26 AM #173:	Just a quick mention this topic will now have unmarked Ar nosurge spoilers as well I'm four hours in and I want to say: anyone who says Ciel nosurge isn't necessary for this game is crazy. I'm still kind of lost about a lot of things, but I know all of the characters so I'm able to appreciate their interactions while slowly piecing everything together. If I hadn't watched Ciel nosurge I'd probably be frustrated, but instead I'm having a great time. Here's an overall plot summary as best as I understand it so far. Cass and Delta indeed spent some time in suspended animation and woke up in this new world (I'm less sure if Nay and Sarly did because I think they can live forever as Incarnates, but Sarly grew up at least a little bit somehow so I dunno). Six months ago, Delta went crazy for some reason and nearly destroyed Felion. He also lost his memories, and both of these things have made Cass extremely wary of him. I guess that's going to be the main plot of this game, similar to reviving Ion's memories in Ciel? Anyway, they helped Nay destroy some song magic robots and then went on a mission to another city run by... Zill, the worst person ever. I hope I didn't miss any items on this mission to rescue Sarly because she wound up being behind the first door I checked and then I couldn't go back to that area. Once they rescued her, Sarly took everyone to her hideout and introduced them to Doctor Leolm, who is only a voice over a transmission device. Thanks to my patented Ciel nosurge knowledge I'm pretty sure this is Shirotaka using his secret (real?) name, but Sarly doesn't seem to know that yet. They were driven out of the city before too long and wound up spending the night hiding in an abandoned area of Soreil. There, Cass and Delta got it on (in their heads) and had a genome baby named Prim. Prim is the cutest thing ever so far, I love her... but I'm wondering how she relates to Prime, the genometrics guide who looks exactly the same as Prim (and who was cryptically mentioned by Shirotaka as well at the end of Ciel nosurge). Everyone made it back home after this and, plot-wise, that's where I stopped. Well that was the plot summary but I still have a million things to talk about. This game has a lot going on! I'm liking this whole diving business so far. I did part of Cass' already (I haven't confirmed if there are more sections yet, for all I know I did all of Cass'). The war between Tsun and Dere made me laugh. This isn't quite as deep or interesting as Ion's memories/discussing thing with Ion after each memory, but it's still interesting. It's a fun look into Cass' mind and a unique way to examine her relationship with Delta. I also did part of Sarly's later on (oh hey, there's Ion! And Nelo! And... zombie Undou? Cowboy Shirotaka? I feel like I spoiled myself somehow by diving into Sarly >_>) but I ran out of dive points and couldn't finish it. Speaking of running out of dive points, my only complaint so far is that grinding feels really counter-intuitive. I'm still learning the battle system but my understanding is that each area has exactly one random battle and then I need to leave/return to refresh it. Still, I'm liking the battle system more now. One attack knocks enemies back a row, another attacks everyone in the same row... I can see this getting pretty in-depth later on! I'm not sure how scoring works, though. I've aced numerous battles and done badly on others and I've gotten a B rank every single time. I'm also not sure if there's a downside to using song magic to clear the encounter once it's available but it hasn't seemed to impact my score. The only other thing I want to mention is that all the character interactions have been great so far. Nay stealing Delta's restaurant has been my favorite thing she's ever done, Prim is great, and Cass/Delta actually have a complex dynamic going on. I'm having lots of fun! That said, whenever Ion isn't onscreen, I find myself asking, 'where's Ion?' --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875189939] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>Just a quick mention this topic will now have unmarked Ar nosurge spoilers as well I'm four hours in and I want to say: anyone who says Ciel nosurge isn't necessary for this game is crazy. I'm still kind of lost about a lot of things, but I know all of the characters so I'm able to appreciate their interactions while slowly piecing everything together. If I hadn't watched Ciel nosurge I'd probably be frustrated, but instead I'm having a great time. Here's an overall plot summary as best as I understand it so far. Cass and Delta indeed spent some time in suspended animation and woke up in this new world (I'm less sure if Nay and Sarly did because I think they can live forever as Incarnates, but Sarly grew up at least a little bit somehow so I dunno). Six months ago, Delta went crazy for some reason and nearly destroyed Felion. He also lost his memories, and both of these things have made Cass extremely wary of him. I guess that's going to be the main plot of this game, similar to reviving Ion's memories in Ciel? Anyway, they helped Nay destroy some song magic robots and then went on a mission to another city run by... Zill, the worst person ever. I hope I didn't miss any items on this mission to rescue Sarly because she wound up being behind the first door I checked and then I couldn't go back to that area. Once they rescued her, Sarly took everyone to her hideout and introduced them to Doctor Leolm, who is only a voice over a transmission device. Thanks to my patented Ciel nosurge knowledge I'm pretty sure this is Shirotaka using his secret (real?) name, but Sarly doesn't seem to know that yet. They were driven out of the city before too long and wound up spending the night hiding in an abandoned area of Soreil. There, Cass and Delta got it on (in their heads) and had a genome baby named Prim. Prim is the cutest thing ever so far, I love her... but I'm wondering how she relates to Prime, the genometrics guide who looks exactly the same as Prim (and who was cryptically mentioned by Shirotaka as well at the end of Ciel nosurge). Everyone made it back home after this and, plot-wise, that's where I stopped. Well that was the plot summary but I still have a million things to talk about. This game has a lot going on! I'm liking this whole diving business so far. I did part of Cass' already (I haven't confirmed if there are more sections yet, for all I know I did all of Cass'). The war between Tsun and Dere made me laugh. This isn't quite as deep or interesting as Ion's memories/discussing thing with Ion after each memory, but it's still interesting. It's a fun look into Cass' mind and a unique way to examine her relationship with Delta. I also did part of Sarly's later on (oh hey, there's Ion! And Nelo! And... zombie Undou? Cowboy Shirotaka? I feel like I spoiled myself somehow by diving into Sarly >_>) but I ran out of dive points and couldn't finish it. Speaking of running out of dive points, my only complaint so far is that grinding feels really counter-intuitive. I'm still learning the battle system but my understanding is that each area has exactly one random battle and then I need to leave/return to refresh it. Still, I'm liking the battle system more now. One attack knocks enemies back a row, another attacks everyone in the same row... I can see this getting pretty in-depth later on! I'm not sure how scoring works, though. I've aced numerous battles and done badly on others and I've gotten a B rank every single time. I'm also not sure if there's a downside to using song magic to clear the encounter once it's available but it hasn't seemed to impact my score. The only other thing I want to mention is that all the character interactions have been great so far. Nay stealing Delta's restaurant has been my favorite thing she's ever done, Prim is great, and Cass/Delta actually have a complex dynamic going on. I'm having lots of fun! That said, whenever Ion isn't onscreen, I find myself asking, 'where's Ion?'</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/16/17 12:34:12 PM #174:	Robazoid posted... I hope I didn't miss any items on this mission to rescue Sarly because she wound up being behind the first door I checked and then I couldn't go back to that area. You can return there. There's very few (any?) missable areas... I think. There might be some - though I can't recall any off the top of my head, but generally you'll be able to return to places even if you're blocked off for a while. Robazoid posted... I'm liking this whole diving business so far. I did part of Cass' already (I haven't confirmed if there are more sections yet, for all I know I did all of Cass'). Diving is a huge part of the game (as it was in Ar tonelico before it.) You'll know when you completed a stage/level because the game makes it obvious. You get a new song magic and like a location starts glowing and even the characters comment on it. Think there's even a kind of ending screen. Robazoid posted... (oh hey, there's Ion! And Nelo! And... zombie Undou? Cowboy Shirotaka? I feel like I spoiled myself somehow by diving into Sarly >_>) nah get used to wacky things happening in genometrics. Remember it's all in the character's heads so sometimes silly things happen with the other characters. Robazoid posted... I'm still learning the battle system but my understanding is that each area has exactly one random battle and then I need to leave/return to refresh it. There should be a color bar somewhere on the screen when you're walking around. Think it starts blue, it starts to change color to red as you walk. That indicates the chance of you getting into a battle. Blue is the lowest, red is the highest. When you actually get into battle it has a hard turn limit... think it's 10. It represents all the enemies in the area. If you beat them all in that first battle you've cleared the area of encounters and the bar will be empty. If you don't, either because you run, run out of time, or use song magic but leave some standing you go back to the map and the bar will be reduced, but not emptied and the process begins again, but the waves you cleared before are gone now. Entering/Leaving the area resets the bar. Robazoid posted... I'm not sure how scoring works, though. I've aced numerous battles and done badly on others and I've gotten a B rank every single time. I'm also not sure if there's a downside to using song magic to clear the encounter once it's available but it hasn't seemed to impact my score. Scoring is kinda weird, IIRC. I think I had the same issue until later in the game when I had more abilities/equipment. No downside to song magic either other than it ending the battle when used. (Note this is only true in standard encounters, boss fights have no turn limits and song magic doesn't end the fight, you just select another one after use and keep going) Robazoid posted... Nay stealing Delta's restaurant has been my favorite thing she's ever done yessssssss Robazoid posted... That said, whenever Ion isn't onscreen, I find myself asking, 'where's Ion?' all things in time --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:875204426] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>I hope I didn't miss any items on this mission to rescue Sarly because she wound up being behind the first door I checked and then I couldn't go back to that area.</quote> You can return there. There's very few (any?) missable areas... I think. There might be some - though I can't recall any off the top of my head, but generally you'll be able to return to places even if you're blocked off for a while. <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>I'm liking this whole diving business so far. I did part of Cass' already (I haven't confirmed if there are more sections yet, for all I know I did all of Cass').</quote> Diving is a huge part of the game (as it was in Ar tonelico before it.) You'll know when you completed a stage/level because the game makes it obvious. You get a new song magic and like a location starts glowing and even the characters comment on it. Think there's even a kind of ending screen. <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>(oh hey, there's Ion! And Nelo! And... zombie Undou? Cowboy Shirotaka? I feel like I spoiled myself somehow by diving into Sarly >_>)</quote> nah get used to wacky things happening in genometrics. Remember it's all in the character's heads so sometimes silly things happen with the other characters. <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>I'm still learning the battle system but my understanding is that each area has exactly one random battle and then I need to leave/return to refresh it.</quote> There should be a color bar somewhere on the screen when you're walking around. Think it starts blue, it starts to change color to red as you walk. That indicates the chance of you getting into a battle. Blue is the lowest, red is the highest. When you actually get into battle it has a hard turn limit... think it's 10. It represents all the enemies in the area. If you beat them all in that first battle you've cleared the area of encounters and the bar will be empty. If you don't, either because you run, run out of time, or use song magic but leave some standing you go back to the map and the bar will be reduced, but not emptied and the process begins again, but the waves you cleared before are gone now. Entering/Leaving the area resets the bar. <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>I'm not sure how scoring works, though. I've aced numerous battles and done badly on others and I've gotten a B rank every single time. I'm also not sure if there's a downside to using song magic to clear the encounter once it's available but it hasn't seemed to impact my score.</quote> Scoring is kinda weird, IIRC. I think I had the same issue until later in the game when I had more abilities/equipment. No downside to song magic either other than it ending the battle when used. (Note this is only true in standard encounters, boss fights have no turn limits and song magic doesn't end the fight, you just select another one after use and keep going) <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>Nay stealing Delta's restaurant has been my favorite thing she's ever done</quote> yessssssss <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>That said, whenever Ion isn't onscreen, I find myself asking, 'where's Ion?'</quote> all things in time</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/16/17 4:02:34 PM #175:	xp1337 posted... Diving is a huge part of the game (as it was in Ar tonelico before it.) You'll know when you completed a stage/level because the game makes it obvious. You get a new song magic and like a location starts glowing and even the characters comment on it. Think there's even a kind of ending screen. I definitely got to the end of the first one where she comes to a sort of understanding with Delta and has the first song magic, I just wasn't sure if there was more to Cass than that. Though, now that I think about it, there probably is because they acted like he was going to another floor next. xp1337 posted... get used to wacky things happening in genometrics. Remember it's all in the character's heads so sometimes silly things happen with the other characters. I can handle the silliness. I even appreciate it! This just showed me several returning characters who I assume I won't truly be seeing for awhile. I hadn't even considered Undou coming back until I saw this horrifying zombie person and checked the name at the top of the text box. xp1337 posted... Robazoid posted... Nay stealing Delta's restaurant has been my favorite thing she's ever done yessssssss It's just been so good. Delta suspecting she chose him for the mission solely to steal his restaurant, her putting up a new sign that he'd need to take out an entire wall to remove... I also forgot to mention the fun choreographed dance they do during synthesis. I've only crafted three things so far but I hope I never become so jaded that I start skipping it. --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875218163] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>xp1337 posted...</cite> <quote>Diving is a huge part of the game (as it was in Ar tonelico before it.) You'll know when you completed a stage/level because the game makes it obvious. You get a new song magic and like a location starts glowing and even the characters comment on it. Think there's even a kind of ending screen.</quote> I definitely got to the end of the first one where she comes to a sort of understanding with Delta and has the first song magic, I just wasn't sure if there was more to Cass than that. Though, now that I think about it, there probably is because they acted like he was going to another floor next. <cite>xp1337 posted...</cite> <quote>get used to wacky things happening in genometrics. Remember it's all in the character's heads so sometimes silly things happen with the other characters.</quote> I can handle the silliness. I even appreciate it! This just showed me several returning characters who I assume I won't truly be seeing for awhile. I hadn't even considered Undou coming back until I saw this horrifying zombie person and checked the name at the top of the text box. <cite>xp1337 posted...</cite> <quote>Robazoid posted... Nay stealing Delta's restaurant has been my favorite thing she's ever done yessssssss</quote> It's just been so good. Delta suspecting she chose him for the mission solely to steal his restaurant, her putting up a new sign that he'd need to take out an entire wall to remove... I also forgot to mention the fun choreographed dance they do during synthesis. I've only crafted three things so far but I hope I never become so jaded that I start skipping it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mobilezoid 03/17/17 5:24:21 AM #176:	OMFG Kanon was just shown in the tutorial image for friend skills! I don't even care how this works plotwise I'm so happy she's back --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D (On mobile) <cite>Mobilezoid posted [p:875261658] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>OMFG Kanon was just shown in the tutorial image for friend skills! I don't even care how this works plotwise I'm so happy she's back</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/17/17 7:34:17 AM #177:	Alright, time for another update on Ar nosurge! This game is like 90% random character interactions, and since I already know everyone from Ciel nosurge I'm really loving it. I finished Sarly's genometrics, and while nothing was resolved I guess Sarly's subconscious has things to think about now. I went to Zill's city after that, assuming the plot would continue. Then Sarly introduced her store and suddenly I spent an hour and a half synthesizing new items and watching their hilarious interactions as Cass and Sarly tried to have girl talk. Or when they built a machine to unlock Delta's memories but it was just a bunch of embarassing Cass moments and she kept beating him up. This was just a bunch of little moments but they were all great. Then I figured I'd advance the plot... only to realize I can do the purification ceremony chats with Nay and Sarly! Then I did that, and instead of advancing the plot I also grinded for a few materials, went back to Nay, and finished synthesizing everything I could with her. She made a lot of hilarious foods for that restaurant. My favorite was the ice cream that made Delta randomly pissed off. Finally I continued the plot, which consisted of realizing Delta needed to jump into Zill's genometrics to get a code for a door. This was the one thing I hadn't done already because screw Zill, but I was at least glad when she kicked Delta out right away. He managed to get the code, but Cass had an outburst of distrust at the fact that he could chain with Zill at all (my theory is that she messed with him when he was captured a year ago and that's why he has no memories and randomly tried to destroy Felion. Behavior like that is classic Zill). Still, they proceeded, found Kanon hovering in a room and... barely reacted to it. Delta doesn't have his memories, fine, but Cass was there when Kanon sacrificed herself to save the world. Show some surprise! Or at least let out a few hyped 'omgomgomg' exclamations like I did. Anyway, they got some song magic that could stop the robots, were captured, escaped, used the song magic, then were nearly killed by sharls. Delta protected Cass, earning her trust once again, and Felion was able to take over Zill's city, bringing this conflict to a close. Seriously though, what's the deal with Kanon suddenly being alive. And I've been playing for eight hours now, where's Ion. --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875264651] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>Alright, time for another update on Ar nosurge! This game is like 90% random character interactions, and since I already know everyone from Ciel nosurge I'm really loving it. I finished Sarly's genometrics, and while nothing was resolved I guess Sarly's subconscious has things to think about now. I went to Zill's city after that, assuming the plot would continue. Then Sarly introduced her store and suddenly I spent an hour and a half synthesizing new items and watching their hilarious interactions as Cass and Sarly tried to have girl talk. Or when they built a machine to unlock Delta's memories but it was just a bunch of embarassing Cass moments and she kept beating him up. This was just a bunch of little moments but they were all great. Then I figured I'd advance the plot... only to realize I can do the purification ceremony chats with Nay and Sarly! Then I did that, and instead of advancing the plot I also grinded for a few materials, went back to Nay, and finished synthesizing everything I could with her. She made a lot of hilarious foods for that restaurant. My favorite was the ice cream that made Delta randomly pissed off. Finally I continued the plot, which consisted of realizing Delta needed to jump into Zill's genometrics to get a code for a door. This was the one thing I hadn't done already because screw Zill, but I was at least glad when she kicked Delta out right away. He managed to get the code, but Cass had an outburst of distrust at the fact that he could chain with Zill at all (my theory is that she messed with him when he was captured a year ago and that's why he has no memories and randomly tried to destroy Felion. Behavior like that is classic Zill). Still, they proceeded, found Kanon hovering in a room and... barely reacted to it. Delta doesn't have his memories, fine, but Cass was there when Kanon sacrificed herself to save the world. Show some surprise! Or at least let out a few hyped 'omgomgomg' exclamations like I did. Anyway, they got some song magic that could stop the robots, were captured, escaped, used the song magic, then were nearly killed by sharls. Delta protected Cass, earning her trust once again, and Felion was able to take over Zill's city, bringing this conflict to a close. Seriously though, what's the deal with Kanon suddenly being alive. And I've been playing for eight hours now, where's Ion.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
dowolf 03/17/17 1:14:58 PM #178:	man cowboy shirotaka confused me so much because, having not played ciel nosurge, I had no idea who the guy was or why he mattered. Robazoid posted... I also forgot to mention the fun choreographed dance they do during synthesis. I've only crafted three things so far but I hope I never become so jaded that I start skipping it. yessssssssssssssssssss the lyrics to those songs are amazing, by the way. What's up? It's my little dream What's that? A bit of everything Let's just toss it all together right now: Sundries~ and You can't spell medicine without dice So don't be too harsh if things go bad, kay? Meds are dicey meds are dicey meds are dicey meds -- hoi! Dicey meds and dicey meds and dicey meds they are -- yay! And yeah, screw the plot craft random stuff and do talk topics for days~ Robazoid posted... where's Ion. psst XP ~~we need to make a where's waldo type thing but with ion instead of waldo stat~~ --- Nonsense. "Testing" is for when you're still guessing--and now, I have no need to guess. -- Agatha, Girl Genius <cite>dowolf posted [p:875280475] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>man cowboy shirotaka confused me so much because, having not played ciel nosurge, I had no idea who the guy was or why he mattered. <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>I also forgot to mention the fun choreographed dance they do during synthesis. I've only crafted three things so far but I hope I never become so jaded that I start skipping it.</quote> yessssssssssssssssssss the lyrics to those songs are amazing, by the way. What's up? It's my little dream What's that? A bit of everything Let's just toss it all together right now: Sundries~ and You can't spell medicine without dice So don't be too harsh if things go bad, kay? Meds are dicey meds are dicey meds are dicey meds -- hoi! Dicey meds and dicey meds and dicey meds they are -- yay! And yeah, screw the plot craft random stuff and do talk topics for days~ <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>where's Ion.</quote> psst XP we need to make a where's waldo type thing but with ion instead of waldo stat</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/17/17 2:21:22 PM #179:	Robazoid posted... Seriously though, what's the deal with Kanon suddenly being alive. IIRC the game doesn't do a good job explaining this. I think it's only really answered in the Ciel/Ar link when used in reverse (so linking an Ar save that's far enough and checking Ciel.) That said I might be wrong so I'll wait before answering that. dowolf posted... Robazoid posted... where's Ion. psst XP ~~we need to make a where's waldo type thing but with ion instead of waldo stat~~ lol >_> Yeah, crafting is also another major part of the game for the conversations it provides. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:875284760] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>Seriously though, what's the deal with Kanon suddenly being alive.</quote> IIRC the game doesn't do a good job explaining this. I think it's only really answered in the Ciel/Ar link when used in reverse (so linking an Ar save that's far enough and checking Ciel.) That said I might be wrong so I'll wait before answering that. <cite>dowolf posted...</cite> <quote><quote><cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> where's Ion.</quote> psst XP we need to make a where's waldo type thing but with ion instead of waldo stat</quote> lol >_> Yeah, crafting is also another major part of the game for the conversations it provides.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
black_raen 03/17/17 2:57:40 PM #180:	Robazoid posted... Seriously though, what's the deal with Kanon suddenly being alive. And I've been playing for eight hours now, where's Ion. This is a very common reaction/thought people have after what happened in Ciel. Keep in mind the following points, though, and you can put the pieces together, even without the secret files from Nelico in a reverse Ar->Ciel link: - Despite America's claims that Kanon was gone, Renall made it clear that the Tenmon researchers believed that their souls were intact inside the quasar. Since the quasar only converted mass into energy, any souls contained in the quasar should be intact. - Zill had extensive research into genetics, the creation of artificial vessels for souls. - "Kanon" as you first see her in Ar is non responsive, has a different outward appearance. Almost like that moment is meant more for us than the characters themselves.... One other thing to keep in mind is that you aren't the same "You" from Ciel. The videos are directly inline with this universe as something a different "You" shared, knowing that they would not be able to meet back up with Ion after the terminal was disconnected. So that the one that replaced them would know why Ion need their help, they made showed you Ion's recovered memories. That's why CnSiE included almost no social content and was focused on the story: the CnSiE player kept his personal relationship with Ion largely private, sharing only enough to make it clear why Ion was important and needed help. It is definitely best to view yourself as the replacement. You know what happened, but it wasn't you back in Ciel. But you're there now. <cite>black_raen posted [p:875287204] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote> Seriously though, what's the deal with Kanon suddenly being alive. And I've been playing for eight hours now, where's Ion.</quote> This is a very common reaction/thought people have after what happened in Ciel. Keep in mind the following points, though, and you can put the pieces together, even without the secret files from Nelico in a reverse Ar->Ciel link: - Despite America's claims that Kanon was gone, Renall made it clear that the Tenmon researchers believed that their souls were intact inside the quasar. Since the quasar only converted mass into energy, any souls contained in the quasar should be intact. - Zill had extensive research into genetics, the creation of artificial vessels for souls. - "Kanon" as you first see her in Ar is non responsive, has a different outward appearance. Almost like that moment is meant more for us than the characters themselves.... One other thing to keep in mind is that you aren't the same "You" from Ciel. The videos are directly inline with this universe as something a different "You" shared, knowing that they would not be able to meet back up with Ion after the terminal was disconnected. So that the one that replaced them would know why Ion need their help, they made showed you Ion's recovered memories. That's why CnSiE included almost no social content and was focused on the story: the CnSiE player kept his personal relationship with Ion largely private, sharing only enough to make it clear why Ion was important and needed help. It is definitely best to view yourself as the replacement. You know what happened, but it wasn't you back in Ciel. But you're there now.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/17/17 4:23:49 PM #181:	dowolf posted... the lyrics to those songs are amazing, by the way. Haha, those are amazing. black_raen posted... This is a very common reaction/thought people have after what happened in Ciel. Keep in mind the following points, though, and you can put the pieces together, even without the secret files from Nelico in a reverse Ar->Ciel link: Hey, you're back! Not sure if you've read the entire topic but thanks again for the Ciel nosurge translation. It has improved my enjoyment of Ar nosurge immensely so far. As for those points, I think I'm starting to get it. So Almetica was wrong or lied for some reason and the souls are recoverable. Assuming the quasar returns alongside Ion/Nelo (which I assume will happen soon since that makes sense plot-wise) then Zill could theoretically reclaim Kanon's soul and put it into that body. This actually clears up another thing I was wondering about. Zill has talked a lot about calling down god and I'd assumed she was talking about Nelo returning... but she's a devout Chimon. She's probably talking about Cosal. Huh, that could be really bad because Almetica implied that Cosal grew to hate humanity in his final moments. And even if that doesn't happen I can see Zill being an absolute bonehead and reviving Revelt too for no reason. black_raen posted... It is definitely best to view yourself as the replacement. You know what happened, but it wasn't you back in Ciel. But you're there now. This actually makes me feel better about how Ciel nosurge ended, so thank you! I was afraid interacting with Ion would be weird because she'd act like we were strangers when I know everything about her, but we are strangers and I only know everything because the previous player showed it to me. The Ciel nosurge player cared enough about Ion that they were willing to sacrifice the connection and show me most of what happened so that I could help Ion in their stead. I can put myself into that state of mind... as soon as Ion finally shows up, that is! Thanks again. --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875292975] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>dowolf posted...</cite> <quote>the lyrics to those songs are amazing, by the way. </quote> Haha, those are amazing. <cite>black_raen posted...</cite> <quote>This is a very common reaction/thought people have after what happened in Ciel. Keep in mind the following points, though, and you can put the pieces together, even without the secret files from Nelico in a reverse Ar->Ciel link:</quote> Hey, you're back! Not sure if you've read the entire topic but thanks again for the Ciel nosurge translation. It has improved my enjoyment of Ar nosurge immensely so far. As for those points, I think I'm starting to get it. So Almetica was wrong or lied for some reason and the souls are recoverable. Assuming the quasar returns alongside Ion/Nelo (which I assume will happen soon since that makes sense plot-wise) then Zill could theoretically reclaim Kanon's soul and put it into that body. This actually clears up another thing I was wondering about. Zill has talked a lot about calling down god and I'd assumed she was talking about Nelo returning... but she's a devout Chimon. She's probably talking about Cosal. Huh, that could be really bad because Almetica implied that Cosal grew to hate humanity in his final moments. And even if that doesn't happen I can see Zill being an absolute bonehead and reviving Revelt too for no reason. <cite>black_raen posted...</cite> <quote>It is definitely best to view yourself as the replacement. You know what happened, but it wasn't you back in Ciel. But you're there now.</quote> This actually makes me feel better about how Ciel nosurge ended, so thank you! I was afraid interacting with Ion would be weird because she'd act like we were strangers when I know everything about her, but we are strangers and I only know everything because the previous player showed it to me. The Ciel nosurge player cared enough about Ion that they were willing to sacrifice the connection and show me most of what happened so that I could help Ion in their stead. I can put myself into that state of mind... as soon as Ion finally shows up, that is! Thanks again.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/18/17 2:44:51 AM #182:	Oh, if trophies are something that matter to you you should probably hold onto a save... right about where you are, actually. There's a missable trophy coming up and I'm almost certain you'll miss it. I'm pretty sure you'll pass this point the next time you play. That said I'd rather not describe how to obtain it until I'm sure you've passed that point so I'll wait until I know you've passed it for sure. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:875327461] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>Oh, if trophies are something that matter to you you should probably hold onto a save... right about where you are, actually. There's a missable trophy coming up and I'm almost certain you'll miss it. I'm pretty sure you'll pass this point the next time you play. That said I'd rather not describe how to obtain it until I'm sure you've passed that point so I'll wait until I know you've passed it for sure.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/18/17 2:50:27 AM #183:	I don't especially care about trophies but if this is significant story content at all I'd probably like to see it. I'll hold onto a save, then! Thanks! --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875327614] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>I don't especially care about trophies but if this is significant story content at all I'd probably like to see it. I'll hold onto a save, then! Thanks!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/18/17 2:57:22 AM #184:	Oh, it's not significant at all. It's just to describe what to do I'd have to talk about stuff you've yet to reach. >_> --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:875327837] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>Oh, it's not significant at all. It's just to describe what to do I'd have to talk about stuff you've yet to reach. >_></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/18/17 7:49:13 AM #185:	I'm eleven hours into Ar nosurge now. Delta and Cass headed to the Flask Sea, a place I remembered from Ciel nosurge. It's too bad that Cass didn't seem to remember it. I'm sad this game isn't more connected to Ciel, they seem to be going out of their way to make sure it stands alone. On the one hand that makes sense (English players especially couldn't be expected to know anything about Ciel) but on the other hand it's resulting in a lot of missed opportunities. I'm a bit confused about the timeline now, too. My understanding of the end of Ciel was that Nelo used the quasar to send her and Ion across space and time. Presumably the Soreil used that time to cover the distance in space, and seeing Kanon's lifeless body earlier would seem to imply her soul hadn't been returned to it yet. However, when Cass and Delta find Zill she's already recaptured the quasar (with Cosal speaking through it and... yep, he's pissed). Nelo is also off using a sleeping Ion to birth sharls, and there's every indication she's been doing this for awhile. Anyway, once Cass and Delta were overwhelmed by a sharl swarm, the viewpoint switched to the robot Earthes and the moment I was waiting for arrived.. the glorious return of Ion! I got to see the world outside her house, and then a few fetch quests later we were able to beat up Nelico and escape into the real world. They met a sharl boy named Tattoria there and quickly learned that the outside of the Soreil is a sharl haven. They also found Kanon ruling this surface society as an avatar of Cosal. This was another huge missed opportunity. too. Obviously they couldn't have a big reunion because people who hadn't played Ciel wouldn't get it, but come on. Ion and Kanon barely seemed surprised to see each other. I understand how Kanon came back now but it'd still be nice if the game bothered to explain it. I really hope this is just a weird section of the game that needs to balance old information with new players and that it'll all click together later once it's done reintroducing things. I don't like being negative about this great game, not even a little bit! The important thing about this reunion is that Zill has infected Kanon's mind (a terrible sin that I intend to punish ZIll for with a vengeance) and driven her to hate humanity because of what they did to Ra Ciela and the genom. Ion didn't think to mention that Ra Ciela wanted to be destroyed and the genom chose not to be saved, but that sounds pretty unbelievable so I doubt Kanon would've accepted it anyway. Caught up in her role in ushering in a new age, Kanon chased Ion out. ...Luckily that didn't stop me from accessing her genometrics! I tried Ion's earlier and couldn't make it work but the only roadblock in Kanon's was figuring out the symbolism behind some of the answers. Kanon can't trust humans but Ion quickly broke through that, in true Ion fashion. I hope they can become friends again in the real world soon, too. That was where I stopped, and tomorrow I'll probably switch back to Cass and Delta just to see if it's been a month since I last saw them or something. That would alleviate some of my timeline confusions. --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875333799] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>I'm eleven hours into Ar nosurge now. Delta and Cass headed to the Flask Sea, a place I remembered from Ciel nosurge. It's too bad that Cass didn't seem to remember it. I'm sad this game isn't more connected to Ciel, they seem to be going out of their way to make sure it stands alone. On the one hand that makes sense (English players especially couldn't be expected to know anything about Ciel) but on the other hand it's resulting in a lot of missed opportunities. I'm a bit confused about the timeline now, too. My understanding of the end of Ciel was that Nelo used the quasar to send her and Ion across space and time. Presumably the Soreil used that time to cover the distance in space, and seeing Kanon's lifeless body earlier would seem to imply her soul hadn't been returned to it yet. However, when Cass and Delta find Zill she's already recaptured the quasar (with Cosal speaking through it and... yep, he's pissed). Nelo is also off using a sleeping Ion to birth sharls, and there's every indication she's been doing this for awhile. Anyway, once Cass and Delta were overwhelmed by a sharl swarm, the viewpoint switched to the robot Earthes and the moment I was waiting for arrived.. the glorious return of Ion! I got to see the world outside her house, and then a few fetch quests later we were able to beat up Nelico and escape into the real world. They met a sharl boy named Tattoria there and quickly learned that the outside of the Soreil is a sharl haven. They also found Kanon ruling this surface society as an avatar of Cosal. This was another huge missed opportunity. too. Obviously they couldn't have a big reunion because people who hadn't played Ciel wouldn't get it, but come on. Ion and Kanon barely seemed surprised to see each other. I understand how Kanon came back now but it'd still be nice if the game bothered to explain it. I really hope this is just a weird section of the game that needs to balance old information with new players and that it'll all click together later once it's done reintroducing things. I don't like being negative about this great game, not even a little bit! The important thing about this reunion is that Zill has infected Kanon's mind (a terrible sin that I intend to punish ZIll for with a vengeance) and driven her to hate humanity because of what they did to Ra Ciela and the genom. Ion didn't think to mention that Ra Ciela wanted to be destroyed and the genom chose not to be saved, but that sounds pretty unbelievable so I doubt Kanon would've accepted it anyway. Caught up in her role in ushering in a new age, Kanon chased Ion out. ...Luckily that didn't stop me from accessing her genometrics! I tried Ion's earlier and couldn't make it work but the only roadblock in Kanon's was figuring out the symbolism behind some of the answers. Kanon can't trust humans but Ion quickly broke through that, in true Ion fashion. I hope they can become friends again in the real world soon, too. That was where I stopped, and tomorrow I'll probably switch back to Cass and Delta just to see if it's been a month since I last saw them or something. That would alleviate some of my timeline confusions.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/18/17 2:52:46 PM #186:	Robazoid posted... I'm a bit confused about the timeline now, too. My understanding of the end of Ciel was that Nelo used the quasar to send her and Ion across space and time. Presumably the Soreil used that time to cover the distance in space, and seeing Kanon's lifeless body earlier would seem to imply her soul hadn't been returned to it yet. However, when Cass and Delta find Zill she's already recaptured the quasar (with Cosal speaking through it and... yep, he's pissed). Nelo is also off using a sleeping Ion to birth sharls, and there's every indication she's been doing this for awhile. I forget what is explained when or even if it's told to you and not something you're meant to piece together yourself but: Nelo did send herself, Ion, and the quasar. I think your confusion is because by the time of Ar nosurge they've already "arrived." So Nelo/Ion/quasar are all "back." Additionally, since Ion's mind was broken at the end of Ciel, they used her to mass create sharls. Ciel nosurge (non-memory Ion side) ends like seconds before Ion's side of Ar nosurge began. In fact, this goes back to some of your Nelico questions in Ciel. If you'll recall from Ciel, birthing sharls drained life force and people could only manage like 5 or so. Ion had a specific setup there that had the energy for sharls come from a different dimension rather than Ion's life force allowing for essentially infinite sharl creation. and remember what the ciel player was doing. creating and leveling sharls (the barcode stuff). the energy was coming from the ciel player's world. And since recovering Ion's memories was a key driver in the player creating/levelling sharls, that fit with Nelico's purpose so she was all for it... until they started getting to close to reminding Ion what was really happening. Robazoid posted... the viewpoint switched to the robot Earthes and the moment I was waiting for arrived.. the glorious return of Ion! sorry cass and delta, the star has returned btw, that trophy I was talking about: When Ion asks for your help, you have to deny her. worst trophy. Robazoid posted... I tried Ion's earlier and couldn't make it work Yeah, that stage of Ion's is by far the most complicated (and intentionally so.) You can't complete it at the moment and won't be able to for a bit. I can let you know when I'm pretty sure you can. also ion genometrics hype best genometric stages let's go --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:875352392] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>I'm a bit confused about the timeline now, too. My understanding of the end of Ciel was that Nelo used the quasar to send her and Ion across space and time. Presumably the Soreil used that time to cover the distance in space, and seeing Kanon's lifeless body earlier would seem to imply her soul hadn't been returned to it yet. However, when Cass and Delta find Zill she's already recaptured the quasar (with Cosal speaking through it and... yep, he's pissed). Nelo is also off using a sleeping Ion to birth sharls, and there's every indication she's been doing this for awhile.</quote> I forget what is explained when or even if it's told to you and not something you're meant to piece together yourself but: Nelo did send herself, Ion, and the quasar. I think your confusion is because by the time of Ar nosurge they've already "arrived." So Nelo/Ion/quasar are all "back." Additionally, since Ion's mind was broken at the end of Ciel, they used her to mass create sharls. Ciel nosurge (non-memory Ion side) ends like seconds before Ion's side of Ar nosurge began. In fact, this goes back to some of your Nelico questions in Ciel. If you'll recall from Ciel, birthing sharls drained life force and people could only manage like 5 or so. Ion had a specific setup there that had the energy for sharls come from a different dimension rather than Ion's life force allowing for essentially infinite sharl creation. and remember what the ciel player was doing. creating and leveling sharls (the barcode stuff). the energy was coming from the ciel player's world. And since recovering Ion's memories was a key driver in the player creating/levelling sharls, that fit with Nelico's purpose so she was all for it... until they started getting to close to reminding Ion what was really happening. <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>the viewpoint switched to the robot Earthes and the moment I was waiting for arrived.. the glorious return of Ion!</quote> sorry cass and delta, the star has returned btw, that trophy I was talking about: When Ion asks for your help, you have to deny her. worst trophy. <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>I tried Ion's earlier and couldn't make it work</quote> Yeah, that stage of Ion's is by far the most complicated (and intentionally so.) You can't complete it at the moment and won't be able to for a bit. I can let you know when I'm pretty sure you can. also ion genometrics hype best genometric stages let's go</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/18/17 3:56:26 PM #187:	Oh, I forgot to highlight the main source of my timeline confusion. Nelo/Ion having already returned makes sense, but Cass and Delta stumbled across Kanon's soulless body even though Kanon is apparently on the surface leading the sharl epidemic they've been dealing with. I'm wondering if there are two Kanon bodies or if she just likes heading down to the demon world and hovering motionlessly in a church room. As for the stuff about Nelico, that is a neat explanation for the events of Ciel! It also explains why they allowed Ion to keep the terminal, because it was what was sending in that infinite sharl energy. It doesn't explain where the terminal came from but I suppose it was Ion's mind and she could've created it herself with subconscious oversight. It also doesn't explain why they tied sharl creation to memory reawakening (or why Nelico insisted on reawakening the memories early on) when that goes directly against their plans, but maybe Nelo has her reasons. EDIT: Oh you actually covered the memory thing. That still seems awful risky, especially since Nelico didn't actually seem to have a plan B for if they started reawakening the wrong memories. xp1337 posted... btw, that trophy I was talking about: When Ion asks for your help, you have to deny her. worst trophy. What kind of monster would turn down Ion?!? --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875355946] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>Oh, I forgot to highlight the main source of my timeline confusion. Nelo/Ion having already returned makes sense, but Cass and Delta stumbled across Kanon's soulless body even though Kanon is apparently on the surface leading the sharl epidemic they've been dealing with. I'm wondering if there are two Kanon bodies or if she just likes heading down to the demon world and hovering motionlessly in a church room. As for the stuff about Nelico, that is a neat explanation for the events of Ciel! It also explains why they allowed Ion to keep the terminal, because it was what was sending in that infinite sharl energy. It doesn't explain where the terminal came from but I suppose it was Ion's mind and she could've created it herself with subconscious oversight. It also doesn't explain why they tied sharl creation to memory reawakening (or why Nelico insisted on reawakening the memories early on) when that goes directly against their plans, but maybe Nelo has her reasons. EDIT: Oh you actually covered the memory thing. That still seems awful risky, especially since Nelico didn't actually seem to have a plan B for if they started reawakening the wrong memories. <cite>xp1337 posted...</cite> <quote>btw, that trophy I was talking about: When Ion asks for your help, you have to deny her. worst trophy.</quote> What kind of monster would turn down Ion?!?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/18/17 4:22:05 PM #188:	Ah, my memory on what exactly is going on with Kanon there is a bit hazy. Hopefully it does get explained as you keep going. Sorry. I... want to say it does, but not 100% sure of that. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:875357339] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>Ah, my memory on what exactly is going on with Kanon there is a bit hazy. Hopefully it does get explained as you keep going. Sorry. I... want to say it does, but not 100% sure of that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/18/17 4:51:03 PM #189:	Oh, right, I said I'd mention this but the TxBIOS system is glitched. Everything actually applies one level lower than it's supposed to. So, whatever you put in Slot 2 activates at Harmonics 1, Slot 3 at Harmonics 2, etc. This means Slot 1 is useless. I wouldn't worry about it too much though, I don't recall it being too big a deal in the long run, just letting you know. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:875358904] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>Oh, right, I said I'd mention this but the TxBIOS system is glitched. Everything actually applies one level lower than it's supposed to. So, whatever you put in Slot 2 activates at Harmonics 1, Slot 3 at Harmonics 2, etc. This means Slot 1 is useless. I wouldn't worry about it too much though, I don't recall it being too big a deal in the long run, just letting you know.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
black_raen 03/18/17 5:51:21 PM #190:	Robazoid posted... Cass and Delta stumbled across Kanon's soulless body even though Kanon is apparently on the surface leading the sharl epidemic they've been dealing with. The moment that Class::CIEL_NOSURGE; began to be sung was when the Ciel nosurge story began. Effectively, Cas and Delta were in the Flask Sea for the entire duration of the Ciel nosurge game -- approximately 2-3 years. With the vessel complete, Zill had plenty of time to wrap up her work 'resurrecting' Kanon. <cite>black_raen posted [p:875362404] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>Cass and Delta stumbled across Kanon's soulless body even though Kanon is apparently on the surface leading the sharl epidemic they've been dealing with.</quote> The moment that Class::CIEL_NOSURGE; began to be sung was when the Ciel nosurge story began. Effectively, Cas and Delta were in the Flask Sea for the entire duration of the Ciel nosurge game -- approximately 2-3 years. With the vessel complete, Zill had plenty of time to wrap up her work 'resurrecting' Kanon.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/18/17 5:59:58 PM #191:	Oh, so there has been a time-skip, that clears everything up. Thanks guys! --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875362970] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>Oh, so there has been a time-skip, that clears everything up. Thanks guys!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/18/17 9:47:30 PM #192:	I played a bit more! I'm thirteen hours into Ar nosurge now Robazoid posted... Tomorrow I'll probably switch back to Cass and Delta just to see if it's been a month since I last saw them or something. That would alleviate some of my timeline confusions. This turned out to be correct. I feel bad making you guys explain things that the game also explains literally ten minutes after I stopped. After switching to Cass and Delta, they woke up with Sarly in the Flask Sea. Not sure how they escaped but my money is on a Zill scheme. Regardless, they headed back to Felion and confirmed that it's been two years since they were captured. Luckily, nothing much has changed and Nay is still being awesome in Delta's restaurant. Another big reveal was that Sarly let herself be captured intentionally while installing some sort of program into Ion. I'm guessing that's probably how the terminal got into her world, so thanks, Sarly! Their quest now was to find a master sharl, and to do that I had to position Team Cass and Team Ion on opposite sides of a gate at the same time. I was hoping for them to literally walk past each other but I guess I'm supposed to assume these events happened at different times. Ion is now in the lower levels of the Soreil, but I stuck with Cass for the rest of this session. They were shocked to find an actual planetary surface on the Soreil, and I was glad for that. I didn't say anything about this in the last update because my timeline confusion was lame enough, but I was pretty sure the Soreil hadn't always been a planet. This is clearly a mystery that will be answered in time. They were pretty sure Kanon was the master sharl and that took them further across the surface. I love that Ion and Cass seem to be sharing inventory through a magical bag. Like, most RPGs don't even acknowledge item sharing but Ar nosurge isn't most RPGs! I'm not sure if this will be a real plot point or if it's just a joke, but I love what they've used it for so far. Cass has found random train tickets and Ion threw away Cass' spare underwear. They located the master sharl and were surprised to find that it was Prim, not Kanon. Prim has been thoroughly brainwashed by Nelo (and the fact that she can't understand Cass' anger is just how she shows her love). I'm glad they didn't ignore the previous history of these characters, either. Nelo was hurt that Cass doesn't see her as a friend anymore and Cass feels betrayed by what Nelo did at the end of Ciel nosruge. No missed opportunities here! Just a neat boss fight, and then the game told me to switch back to Ion. I'll do that when I play more later today. --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875376982] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>I played a bit more! I'm thirteen hours into Ar nosurge now <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>Tomorrow I'll probably switch back to Cass and Delta just to see if it's been a month since I last saw them or something. That would alleviate some of my timeline confusions.</quote> This turned out to be correct. I feel bad making you guys explain things that the game also explains literally ten minutes after I stopped. After switching to Cass and Delta, they woke up with Sarly in the Flask Sea. Not sure how they escaped but my money is on a Zill scheme. Regardless, they headed back to Felion and confirmed that it's been two years since they were captured. Luckily, nothing much has changed and Nay is still being awesome in Delta's restaurant. Another big reveal was that Sarly let herself be captured intentionally while installing some sort of program into Ion. I'm guessing that's probably how the terminal got into her world, so thanks, Sarly! Their quest now was to find a master sharl, and to do that I had to position Team Cass and Team Ion on opposite sides of a gate at the same time. I was hoping for them to literally walk past each other but I guess I'm supposed to assume these events happened at different times. Ion is now in the lower levels of the Soreil, but I stuck with Cass for the rest of this session. They were shocked to find an actual planetary surface on the Soreil, and I was glad for that. I didn't say anything about this in the last update because my timeline confusion was lame enough, but I was pretty sure the Soreil hadn't always been a planet. This is clearly a mystery that will be answered in time. They were pretty sure Kanon was the master sharl and that took them further across the surface. I love that Ion and Cass seem to be sharing inventory through a magical bag. Like, most RPGs don't even acknowledge item sharing but Ar nosurge isn't most RPGs! I'm not sure if this will be a real plot point or if it's just a joke, but I love what they've used it for so far. Cass has found random train tickets and Ion threw away Cass' spare underwear. They located the master sharl and were surprised to find that it was Prim, not Kanon. Prim has been thoroughly brainwashed by Nelo (and the fact that she can't understand Cass' anger is just how she shows her love). I'm glad they didn't ignore the previous history of these characters, either. Nelo was hurt that Cass doesn't see her as a friend anymore and Cass feels betrayed by what Nelo did at the end of Ciel nosruge. No missed opportunities here! Just a neat boss fight, and then the game told me to switch back to Ion. I'll do that when I play more later today.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/18/17 9:54:05 PM #193:	Oh, I also did Nay's genometrics with Delta and Cass (it's also super annoying that I never know how many dive points I might need to finish these, I wound up having to leave and grind twice just to complete it and each time I go in costs money). Beyond the symbolism it was clear that Nay still has mixed feelings about Ion, and in addition to that she became somewhat addicted to danger during her years spent on the run. I'm glad she was able to start moving past it all, even if only a little. These genometrics scenes have all been really neat. On the surface they're silly interactions but they've also been saying a lot of important things about the characters under the surface, too. Plus the Spartan Liv song magic that I got from this has the best song magic... uh, song of them all so far. The music that plays when it's used is probably only twenty seconds long but if this is actually cut from a larger song I bet I'd like it. EDIT: It starts about 8:45 in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ5U7hVbz_8 --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875377400] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>Oh, I also did Nay's genometrics with Delta and Cass (it's also super annoying that I never know how many dive points I might need to finish these, I wound up having to leave and grind twice just to complete it and each time I go in costs money). Beyond the symbolism it was clear that Nay still has mixed feelings about Ion, and in addition to that she became somewhat addicted to danger during her years spent on the run. I'm glad she was able to start moving past it all, even if only a little. These genometrics scenes have all been really neat. On the surface they're silly interactions but they've also been saying a lot of important things about the characters under the surface, too. Plus the Spartan Liv song magic that I got from this has the best song magic... uh, song of them all so far. The music that plays when it's used is probably only twenty seconds long but if this is actually cut from a larger song I bet I'd like it. EDIT: It starts about 8:45 in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ5U7hVbz_8</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
dowolf 03/19/17 1:29:07 AM #194:	There are not in fact longer versions of those songs, unfortunately. --- Nonsense. "Testing" is for when you're still guessing--and now, I have no need to guess. -- Agatha, Girl Genius <cite>dowolf posted [p:875389203] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>There are not in fact longer versions of those songs, unfortunately.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/19/17 5:21:20 AM #195:	dowolf posted... There are not in fact longer versions of those songs, unfortunately. Damn, that's too bad. Anyway, I should update again since I finished Phase One of Ar nosurge. Ion's half of the story involved only a brief exploration of the inside of the Soreil to learn about the sharl's plans. Then she returned to the surface and ran into Cass and Delta. They were all shocked to see each other but once Kanon started singing the song to kill all humans the time for small talk was over. Ion tried desperately to convince them to give her a chance to fix things nonviolently but Delta didn't want to hear about it and the two groups fought. I was worried when this started because Team Cass is double the level of Team Ion, but they must've scaled it because it wasn't too bad. Despite winning, Ion was still blasted off a ledge, which allowed Cass to ship Prim back to Felion so that Nay could sing a song to kill the sharls. After that debacle, Ion figured she'd have a better chance heading to Felion and appealing to Nay directly. Unfortunately, Nay has had five thousand years to build back up her resentment and she didn't want to listen. When will people learn that Zill is the source of all suffering in this world and Ion is a literal saint? Whatever, a quick beating was Nay's punishment, but it wasn't enough to stop her from singing. Luckily, it didn't have the intended effect. It just put the sharls to sleep... including Nay, who is a sharl herself (the game treats this like a revelation later but I have Ciel nosurge cheat code knowledge). Meanwhile, Cass and Delta tracked down Kanon and interrupted the end of her song. Instead of killing all humans, all she managed was to resurrect Cosal. When he never showed up during Ciel nosruge I'd assumed Cosal didn't have a physical body. I thought he a force of nature, both everywhere and nowhere. I'm not sure I like this buff lion-man look for him. He's also super angry but I still blame Zill for all of this. Cosal is reasonable and will come around after he talks with Ion, just like everyone always does. Kanon, viewing her task as complete, threw herself off a ledge to atone for humanity's sins, ending Phase One. Phase Two began with Ion talking to Nay in a medical center after she wakes back up. Nay is willing to listen this time, so while she won't wake the sharls she will give Ion a chance to create peace. I also did Nay's genometrics with Ion, and once again it was a fun side story with deep implications. Nay has been crumbling under the pressure of being empress and her lingering resentment of Ion, but she was able to take meaningful steps towards accepting herself and re-accepting Ion. I then switched to Cass/Delta and saw that they'd rescued Kanon. All it took to get her to switch sides was for Cass to point out that she should take a more proactive role in atonement instead of killing herself. That felt a little abrupt but I'm willing to bet Kanon's character development won't stop here. Once again, a pressing situation also forced this to the sidelines. The sharls have woken back up (though, since Nay woke up after awhile too this isn't surprising). They rushed back to Felion in time to see Nelo rescuing Prim. They also had to fight an 8th dimensional prototype, and this was by far the hardest, longest battle in the game so far. I'm probably just underleveled, I'll craft new things and grind next time I play! That was where I stopped, but there is one last thing I want to mention. I saw Undou's name way back during Sarly's genometrics but I only just realized he's the Felion Prime Minister. Good old Undou, standing up to Zill again. You'd think she'd consider why her genius lover is always against her evil schemes, but no. Zill is too terrible to be capable of such self-reflection. --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875396866] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>dowolf posted...</cite> <quote>There are not in fact longer versions of those songs, unfortunately.</quote> Damn, that's too bad. Anyway, I should update again since I finished Phase One of Ar nosurge. Ion's half of the story involved only a brief exploration of the inside of the Soreil to learn about the sharl's plans. Then she returned to the surface and ran into Cass and Delta. They were all shocked to see each other but once Kanon started singing the song to kill all humans the time for small talk was over. Ion tried desperately to convince them to give her a chance to fix things nonviolently but Delta didn't want to hear about it and the two groups fought. I was worried when this started because Team Cass is double the level of Team Ion, but they must've scaled it because it wasn't too bad. Despite winning, Ion was still blasted off a ledge, which allowed Cass to ship Prim back to Felion so that Nay could sing a song to kill the sharls. After that debacle, Ion figured she'd have a better chance heading to Felion and appealing to Nay directly. Unfortunately, Nay has had five thousand years to build back up her resentment and she didn't want to listen. When will people learn that Zill is the source of all suffering in this world and Ion is a literal saint? Whatever, a quick beating was Nay's punishment, but it wasn't enough to stop her from singing. Luckily, it didn't have the intended effect. It just put the sharls to sleep... including Nay, who is a sharl herself (the game treats this like a revelation later but I have Ciel nosurge cheat code knowledge). Meanwhile, Cass and Delta tracked down Kanon and interrupted the end of her song. Instead of killing all humans, all she managed was to resurrect Cosal. When he never showed up during Ciel nosruge I'd assumed Cosal didn't have a physical body. I thought he a force of nature, both everywhere and nowhere. I'm not sure I like this buff lion-man look for him. He's also super angry but I still blame Zill for all of this. Cosal is reasonable and will come around after he talks with Ion, just like everyone always does. Kanon, viewing her task as complete, threw herself off a ledge to atone for humanity's sins, ending Phase One. Phase Two began with Ion talking to Nay in a medical center after she wakes back up. Nay is willing to listen this time, so while she won't wake the sharls she will give Ion a chance to create peace. I also did Nay's genometrics with Ion, and once again it was a fun side story with deep implications. Nay has been crumbling under the pressure of being empress and her lingering resentment of Ion, but she was able to take meaningful steps towards accepting herself and re-accepting Ion. I then switched to Cass/Delta and saw that they'd rescued Kanon. All it took to get her to switch sides was for Cass to point out that she should take a more proactive role in atonement instead of killing herself. That felt a little abrupt but I'm willing to bet Kanon's character development won't stop here. Once again, a pressing situation also forced this to the sidelines. The sharls have woken back up (though, since Nay woke up after awhile too this isn't surprising). They rushed back to Felion in time to see Nelo rescuing Prim. They also had to fight an 8th dimensional prototype, and this was by far the hardest, longest battle in the game so far. I'm probably just underleveled, I'll craft new things and grind next time I play! That was where I stopped, but there is one last thing I want to mention. I saw Undou's name way back during Sarly's genometrics but I only just realized he's the Felion Prime Minister. Good old Undou, standing up to Zill again. You'd think she'd consider why her genius lover is always against her evil schemes, but no. Zill is too terrible to be capable of such self-reflection.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/19/17 3:54:58 PM #196:	Robazoid posted... Phase Two began with Ion talking to Nay in a medical center after she wakes back up. Nay is willing to listen this time, so while she won't wake the sharls she will give Ion a chance to create peace. I also did Nay's genometrics with Ion, and once again it was a fun side story with deep implications. Nay has been crumbling under the pressure of being empress and her lingering resentment of Ion, but she was able to take meaningful steps towards accepting herself and re-accepting Ion. Nay's song/boss battle theme is pretty good. ya go my hidra hetreomycin. You can complete Ion's genometrics now, btw. As a possible warning though, depending on what you did there last time you may have to re-do some events. Since you can re-do genometric events (and in some cases are encouraged because you can get unlockable album images, crystals, etc. from different options) it can mess with the event flags. I believe the event flags reflect whatever you did last in that event, so if you changed around some of your answers in earlier events experimenting with trying to clear it before, you may have to revert them back to the "right" answers for everything to work out. You can't always just skip to the latest event and assume it will all work out. Worst case scenario you'd have to "re-do" the genometrics level by replaying the events in order. This isn't specific to Ion's genometrics, but all of them, it's just here is the first place I typically see people have some issues with this. Robazoid posted... They also had to fight an 8th dimensional prototype, and this was by far the hardest, longest battle in the game so far. I'm probably just underleveled nope the boss is just glitched. Has higher stats than it should. You just have to deal with that, there isn't really a solution other than "win anyway." It's... unfortunate. So your grind/craft idea is a good idea, but you didn't do anything wrong here. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:875421865] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>Phase Two began with Ion talking to Nay in a medical center after she wakes back up. Nay is willing to listen this time, so while she won't wake the sharls she will give Ion a chance to create peace. I also did Nay's genometrics with Ion, and once again it was a fun side story with deep implications. Nay has been crumbling under the pressure of being empress and her lingering resentment of Ion, but she was able to take meaningful steps towards accepting herself and re-accepting Ion.</quote> Nay's song/boss battle theme is pretty good. ya go my hidra hetreomycin. You can complete Ion's genometrics now, btw. As a possible warning though, depending on what you did there last time you may have to re-do some events. Since you can re-do genometric events (and in some cases are encouraged because you can get unlockable album images, crystals, etc. from different options) it can mess with the event flags. I believe the event flags reflect whatever you did last in that event, so if you changed around some of your answers in earlier events experimenting with trying to clear it before, you may have to revert them back to the "right" answers for everything to work out. You can't always just skip to the latest event and assume it will all work out. Worst case scenario you'd have to "re-do" the genometrics level by replaying the events in order. This isn't specific to Ion's genometrics, but all of them, it's just here is the first place I typically see people have some issues with this. <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>They also had to fight an 8th dimensional prototype, and this was by far the hardest, longest battle in the game so far. I'm probably just underleveled</quote> nope the boss is just glitched. Has higher stats than it should. You just have to deal with that, there isn't really a solution other than "win anyway." It's... unfortunate. So your grind/craft idea is a good idea, but you didn't do anything wrong here.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/19/17 4:16:42 PM #197:	xp1337 posted... Nay's song/boss battle theme is pretty good. ya go my hidra hetreomycin. I remember really liking the song Kanon sung too. I should go back over the OST once I finish! Thanks for the genometrics tips, too xp1337 posted... the boss is just glitched. Oh, that was this one that was glitched? I'd wondered after Nay and Kanon both went down so easily (for those wondering I opted not to play on hard because I want to focus on the story). My strategy was to use a Green Supplement every turn, which healed just enough to counteract the inevitable damage from the boss. It took half an hour but I beat it. Speaking of glitches, I'm also wondering about TxBIOS being glitched. If they apply one level below, wouldn't that mean level 1 applies at level 0 rather than being useless? Or is that not how it works? Also, I've played a bit more since that last update but I didn't advance the plot at all. I crafted what I could with Nay and Sarly (a few ingredients are still ????? so I didn't do everything) and then grinded for exp and dive points once I realized the encounters are updated for phase two. Both teams are now at level 35 and, since I get thousands of dive points every encounter I'm sitting at roughly 30k. I'll probably do a few dives next time I play but I'm not sure I'll have time to do as much today as I did yesterday. --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875423207] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>xp1337 posted...</cite> <quote>Nay's song/boss battle theme is pretty good. ya go my hidra hetreomycin.</quote> I remember really liking the song Kanon sung too. I should go back over the OST once I finish! Thanks for the genometrics tips, too <cite>xp1337 posted...</cite> <quote>the boss is just glitched.</quote> Oh, that was this one that was glitched? I'd wondered after Nay and Kanon both went down so easily (for those wondering I opted not to play on hard because I want to focus on the story). My strategy was to use a Green Supplement every turn, which healed just enough to counteract the inevitable damage from the boss. It took half an hour but I beat it. Speaking of glitches, I'm also wondering about TxBIOS being glitched. If they apply one level below, wouldn't that mean level 1 applies at level 0 rather than being useless? Or is that not how it works? Also, I've played a bit more since that last update but I didn't advance the plot at all. I crafted what I could with Nay and Sarly (a few ingredients are still ????? so I didn't do everything) and then grinded for exp and dive points once I realized the encounters are updated for phase two. Both teams are now at level 35 and, since I get thousands of dive points every encounter I'm sitting at roughly 30k. I'll probably do a few dives next time I play but I'm not sure I'll have time to do as much today as I did yesterday.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/19/17 4:46:48 PM #198:	Robazoid posted... I remember really liking the song Kanon sung too. I should go back over the OST once I finish! Kanon's song should have been yal fii-ne noh-iar, IIRC. I actually own the Ar nosurge OSTs. so good. Robazoid posted... Oh, that was this one that was glitched? Yep. Robazoid posted... Speaking of glitches, I'm also wondering about TxBIOS being glitched. If they apply one level below, wouldn't that mean level 1 applies at level 0 rather than being useless? Or is that not how it works? What I read says it's useless and I'm just going by that. Depending on how many/what dives you do, I think you're coming up on one of my favorites. hype~ --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:875424905] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote><cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>I remember really liking the song Kanon sung too. I should go back over the OST once I finish!</quote> Kanon's song should have been yal fii-ne noh-iar, IIRC. I actually own the Ar nosurge OSTs. so good. <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>Oh, that was this one that was glitched?</quote> Yep. <cite>Robazoid posted...</cite> <quote>Speaking of glitches, I'm also wondering about TxBIOS being glitched. If they apply one level below, wouldn't that mean level 1 applies at level 0 rather than being useless? Or is that not how it works?</quote> What I read says it's useless and I'm just going by that. Depending on how many/what dives you do, I think you're coming up on one of my favorites. hype~</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mobilezoid 03/20/17 7:38:57 AM #199:	I only barely advanced the plot today, mostly I just grinded, synthesized, and dived. Now it's late and I'm too tired to type up an update, but I will in the morning! I will say that it doesn't make sense how well Ion dances during synthesis when Ciel nosurge established that she can't even manage the simplest steps without tripping. This is a gigantic plot hole! --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D (On mobile) <cite>Mobilezoid posted [p:875465083] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>I only barely advanced the plot today, mostly I just grinded, synthesized, and dived. Now it's late and I'm too tired to type up an update, but I will in the morning! I will say that it doesn't make sense how well Ion dances during synthesis when Ciel nosurge established that she can't even manage the simplest steps without tripping. This is a gigantic plot hole!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robazoid 03/20/17 4:15:06 PM #200:	Alright, time for an Ar nosurge update. It's amazing how much time things like diving and crafting can take! First I'll go over the little bit of main plot. Ion searched the surface and found Kanon being chastised by Cosal because she decided their anti-human plans were going too far. Ion tried to convince Cosal as well but he's still too angry at humanity to listen. This resulted in a boss fight, and for the god of all genom Cosal didn't put up much of a fight. Afterwards, Ion asked him to help the Seven to weave song magic that might actually fix the world. Cosal said the Seven she chose near the end of Ciel nosurge aren't official because he wasn't around to confirm them. He also says that it won't work because all of them carry too much hatred for the genom... including Ion, apparently. I'm really interested to see where this goes. If it's just Cosal assuming the worst of humanity as a hollow justification I'll be disappointed, but if Ion actually is harboring anger beneath her saintliness then that'll be an interesting layer in her character. Either way, I didn't find out the answer yesterday. Kanon opened up a shop for cute things and that meant synthesis! I also agree with her, that bird mascot Chunpi is way better than Nyuroki. I also crafted a bunch of items in Tattoria's shop (I think I might've done them all because an achievment unlocked at the end but that doesn't make any sense because the subplot about the sick sharl girl hasn't concluded yet). Switching to Cass and Delta, I also finished all the crafting available to Sarly and Nay. The Sarly subplot has been my favorite with wacky attempts at recovering Delta's memories and Cass trying to educate Sarly in things like makeup. I also did a few dives. First Cass/Delta did Kanon's, and this one wasn't my favorite. The symbolism is that Kanon was resisting anything fun because she needed to uphold her duty, and that makes sense. Cass' role in this was what I had trouble accepting because it made it seem like she was the sort of person to blindly follow authority. That... doesn't seem like Cass at all. I remember her resisting just about every authority figure she came across in Ciel nosurge, from her father to Neptool to PLASMA and so on. At least this one had Kanon in a sexy bathing suit. Who knew my strategy of 'pick the most expensive dialogue option' would result in Delta offering to father her babies, with hilarious results. Next, Ion's genometrics were great. This was all about Ion having trouble trusting Earthes no matter how often she said she trusted him completely. He had to pass several tests, including one where I had to switch back to Delta (I had to look this one up in a guide after several failures). In the end, he passed the tests and earned a song magic for his trouble. The end of this song magic has Ion run up to the terminal and kiss it, so I like it! I think I've finally exhausted all the side content available to me right now and I'm out of dive points so next time I'll probably move the plot forward. --- R.O.B.A.Z.O.I.D <cite>Robazoid posted [p:875493957] in Ciel nosur... [t:74938137]...</cite> <quote>Alright, time for an Ar nosurge update. It's amazing how much time things like diving and crafting can take! First I'll go over the little bit of main plot. Ion searched the surface and found Kanon being chastised by Cosal because she decided their anti-human plans were going too far. Ion tried to convince Cosal as well but he's still too angry at humanity to listen. This resulted in a boss fight, and for the god of all genom Cosal didn't put up much of a fight. Afterwards, Ion asked him to help the Seven to weave song magic that might actually fix the world. Cosal said the Seven she chose near the end of Ciel nosurge aren't official because he wasn't around to confirm them. He also says that it won't work because all of them carry too much hatred for the genom... including Ion, apparently. I'm really interested to see where this goes. If it's just Cosal assuming the worst of humanity as a hollow justification I'll be disappointed, but if Ion actually is harboring anger beneath her saintliness then that'll be an interesting layer in her character. Either way, I didn't find out the answer yesterday. Kanon opened up a shop for cute things and that meant synthesis! I also agree with her, that bird mascot Chunpi is way better than Nyuroki. I also crafted a bunch of items in Tattoria's shop (I think I might've done them all because an achievment unlocked at the end but that doesn't make any sense because the subplot about the sick sharl girl hasn't concluded yet). Switching to Cass and Delta, I also finished all the crafting available to Sarly and Nay. The Sarly subplot has been my favorite with wacky attempts at recovering Delta's memories and Cass trying to educate Sarly in things like makeup. I also did a few dives. First Cass/Delta did Kanon's, and this one wasn't my favorite. The symbolism is that Kanon was resisting anything fun because she needed to uphold her duty, and that makes sense. Cass' role in this was what I had trouble accepting because it made it seem like she was the sort of person to blindly follow authority. That... doesn't seem like Cass at all. I remember her resisting just about every authority figure she came across in Ciel nosurge, from her father to Neptool to PLASMA and so on. At least this one had Kanon in a sexy bathing suit. Who knew my strategy of 'pick the most expensive dialogue option' would result in Delta offering to father her babies, with hilarious results. Next, Ion's genometrics were great. This was all about Ion having trouble trusting Earthes no matter how often she said she trusted him completely. He had to pass several tests, including one where I had to switch back to Delta (I had to look this one up in a guide after several failures). In the end, he passed the tests and earned a song magic for his trouble. The end of this song magic has Ion run up to the terminal and kiss it, so I like it! I think I've finally exhausted all the side content available to me right now and I'm out of dive points so next time I'll probably move the plot forward.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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