Board 8 > Ciel nosurge (in English) - A watchthrough topic *Spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

dowolf is going to pass me at this pace tbqh >_>

Finished Chapter 8. 140/252.

Major Chapter 8 Spoilers: Yeah, this was it. The reveal about Nay's identity is the best. The whole dive sequence with Nay is incredible. And then at the end of the chapter, Awakened Ion is a complete baller. I also like how the "map" theme here feels out of place with the rest of the songs given that the world itself is out of place given the shift.

Argh, such an amazing chapter. I know there are still some great events ahead but oh man this chapter will be really hard to beat, I think.

Chapter Rankings: 8 > 7 >= 6 > 4 > 5 >> 2 >= 3 >= 1
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Robazoid posted...

I wonder why these aren't just inserted into the playlist at the appropriate spots. I didn't see anything that would spoil future events in there and they expand the world a lot.

The original Ciel nosurge game only came with Chapter 1 and everything else was released later as DLC. This includes the extra scenarios. Extra Scenario Pack Vol. 1 was released between Chapter 4 and Chapter 5, covering ch1-4. The same thing happens with Extra Scenario Pack 2 releasing after Chapter 8.

The entire playlist is ordered in an "as you play" fashion to mirror the actual flow experienced during an original playthrough of the online version of the game, despite what may seem like mistakes or oversights.

Oh wow, I didn't expect you to see this topic!

Thanks so much for the translation/video series, and for the old summary beforehand! It must have been a ton of work, but looking back I can hardly imagine having played Ar nosurge without it. You (and aquagon too) did amazing work here.
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black_raen posted...

Robazoid posted...

I wonder why these aren't just inserted into the playlist at the appropriate spots. I didn't see anything that would spoil future events in there and they expand the world a lot.

The original Ciel nosurge game only came with Chapter 1 and everything else was released later as DLC. This includes the extra scenarios. Extra Scenario Pack Vol. 1 was released between Chapter 4 and Chapter 5, covering ch1-4. The same thing happens with Extra Scenario Pack 2 releasing after Chapter 8.

The entire playlist is ordered in an "as you play" fashion to mirror the actual flow experienced during an original playthrough of the online version of the game, despite what may seem like mistakes or oversights.

Oh cool, I didn't know any of that about the release. I also wasn't trying to criticize, it was just an idle thought! From what xp said I'm assuming you're the one behind this translation so thanks for doing that. I'm enjoying this a lot and I wouldn't have been able to experience it otherwise
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No offense, I just thought I'd share since you seemed curious. ^__^

I kind of assumed that now with the project done and people able to fire-hose the story, some of the timing and delays between episodes would be missing so questions like that might come up.

As a side note, this is not in the official CnSiE playlist, but around Chapter 4 in the original online game, Ion began talking about how Nelico was helping her with a "special surprise" for us (terminal-san), culminating in the release of a book called Filament Star written by Ion (and her 'friend' Iduki Kougyoku). The book had limited release but I have a translation of that up as well with Ion reading along:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a0uLcTfDEY

Suggested as a watch sometime between ch4 and ch7.

I just watched that book video. It was a nice story! It had clear parallels to Ion's relationship with the terminal but not so much that it got in the way, plus the theme was nice and universally applicable. Thanks for letting me know about it

I also watched the Valentine's Day video, which I saw in the 'up next' section on Youtube. It felt appropriate given the day! Good old Ion, making me feel loved.

This was all I had time for tonight because I need to go to sleep early so in terms of the playlist I'm still at 81/252
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Got through the drama CD/Extra Scenario material after Chapter 8. 159/252.

Talk about mood whiplash in this. The videos regarding how the Tenmon treated Ion after her arrival was some of the hardest stuff to listen to. And on the other side of the spectrum, the scene where Nay had her, Cas, and Tabou play house was probably the funniest scene in the entire series so far. I was already cracking up at how she set it up as a soap opera but when Renall came in and she went "Mama!" I just lost it.

Next up is Chapter 9~
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I've finished chapters 6 and 7. Fantastic chapters, best yet, especially since 7 terminates in BEST SONG excess crayons, and if that opinion surprises you I am very confused >_> Glad to see the mediocrity of 5 didn't stick around for long!

Though man, to have to sit around and wait however many months it was for episode 8 to come out after episode 7 must've been awful.

In other news, non-memory Ion's gotten a lot better now that their relationship feels more like a relationship than, uh, than a overly complex Tamagotchi.
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I only got to 84/252 today but that's still an hour further than I was

Chapter Five is good so far, those rankings you guys have putting it near the end or in the middle are undeserved! Ion and Kanon had a great conversation and it seems like they're finally going to start getting to the bottom of things.
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Robazoid posted...

Chapter Five is good so far, those rankings you guys have putting it near the end or in the middle are undeserved!

I had it above every chapter before it except for Chapter 4 and specifically used two >'s after it to show I felt it was a clear step ahead of 1-3! It's in the middle now because 6, 7, and 8 pushed it there by being the best chapters!

Speaking of, Chapter 9 complete. 175/252.

Chapter Rankings: 8 > 7 >= 6 > 4 > 5 > 9 >> 2 >= 3 >= 1

I actually forgot about this sequence of events, though I remembered immediately once I saw Cas and the others in the park. Anyway, weaker than the Collapse Chapters to me, but I love those so that's not a surprise. Ion and Nay being very much in the background this chapter holds this back for me a lot. I mean, it's a bit telling that I'd say my favorite part of the chapter is Nay and Clacket's scene where she reveals more of her backstory. And while not part of the chapter, but part of the viewing session, seeing a glimpse of Nei's life before Ion was a high point as well. Nero is the star of this chapter between her reactions to the conversations and her explanations of the more technical stuff.
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I only watched one (40 minute) video today but I'm steadily making my way through Chapter Five!
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Chapter 8 complete, and on the top of the rankings it goes!

To be fair, 5 isn't awful insomuch as it is a significant step back from 4 and much longer than it should be; it definitely suffers from the design decision to have each local get a full chapter.
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Chapter 10 complete. 190/252.

Chapter Rankings: 8 > 7 >= 6 > 4 > 10 >= 5 > 9 >> 2 >= 3 >= 1

Collapse chapters still too powerful. However, I think things start ramping up again from here so maybe they'll have some competition coming up. Looking ahead, Chapter 11 seems to be one of the shortest chapters in terms of runtime in quite a while so it shouldn't be a problem to get through it tomorrow I imagine.
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And here you were thinking that I was gonna overtake you >_>

Anyways, finished up the bonus stuff. 8 > 7 > 6 = 4 > 2 > 3 > 5 > 1 I think is where I stand, which is mostly the same as you except with regards to 5.

I also started up the first bit of chapter 9, and ummmmmmmm yeah. I remember characters talking about this bit during Ar nosurge, so I knew it was coming, and it's nice to have Cas and Tabou back, but still. Hopes are set to low. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised?
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Video progress: 89/252

I'm finally done Chapter Five! You guys are crazy, it was great. Kanon and Ion had some great conversations and finally formed a true bond. Renall is an interesting character. Tabou being briefly taken over by Reon (I think?) was an interesting twist, and I bet there will be even further implications for that. I dunno, I liked it. It's hard for me to rank the chapters but if I have to it'd go something like this

5 > 1 > 4 > 3 > 2

Anyway, since you guys are all gung-ho rushing through this, I thought I'd share my schedule. I'm watching an hour every weekday and two hours a day on weekends, which means I should finish a little over a month from now on March 18th. I imagine you'll all be done long before that, but even if you stop checking into the topic after that I want you to know I'll still read your comments and whatnot as I reach relevant parts, so keep posting them!

I've also fallen a bit behind and need to catch up this weekend, so by the end of Monday I plan to be done Chapter Seven.
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dowolf posted...

And here you were thinking that I was gonna overtake you >_>

I did! You were going a bit faster than I was to that point, I think. I also didn't know if I could keep doing full chapters in a day. I had started breaking that up more when I made that comment! If you didn't while I did you might have! >_>

Robazoid posted...

You guys are crazy, it was great.

what is this "you guys" still

I said it was! I just like 4 more. And then the following Collapse chapters just are that much better. seriously collpase chapters too good.

Robazoid posted...

but even if you stop checking into the topic after that I want you to know I'll still read your comments and whatnot as I reach relevant parts, so keep posting them!

I'm 100% serious when I say the thing I probably most look forward to each day is reading your progress and thoughts, so I definitely won't be leaving the topic. On that point, if you have questions or what me to comment more specifically on something just let me know. I'm always up for discussion.

Robazoid posted...

so by the end of Monday I plan to be done Chapter Seven.

c h a p t e r s e v e n h y p e

~~~

As for my own progress.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Chapter 11 complete. 206/252.

Let's. ****ing. Go.

Chapter Rankings: 11 > 8 > 7 >= 6 > 4 > 10 >= 5 > 9 >> 2 >= 3 >= 1

I know I said I was pretty sure things would start ramping up again based on my memory. But I was not prepared. That bit I said about it being the shortest runtime in a while also factors huge because that pace. It's like it hits hyperdrive but it's so good I was so sucked in it somehow both flew by and felt like I was there all day in the best possible way. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Chapter 11 Spoilers: Seriously, everything about this is the best. mah boi clacket. Kanon and Cosal. Revelt being the absolute worst to the point where otherwise-the-absolute-worst Zill is disgusted. QuelI -> EX[ces] ->{kranz}; returns. Like, Ion becoming the Empress is somehow the side-story here to the events going down at Genomirai. You even have Nelico asking you to stop recovering memories and getting kind of ominous/threatening at the very end when you don't.

Also, best map theme? Again, a bit hard to tell since you don't hear too much of it, but I think so. Also really like the map itself with the top-down view showing you the Imperial Palace, Four Seasons, and the Earthen Shaft/Genomirai. And maybe Almetica, can't tell if that's another colony there or just part of the Imperial Palace.

But yeah, new CONTENDER for best map theme yo.

Chapter 12 is complicated, IIRC, so this probably takes a few sessions. Sooooooo hype because when I made my "I think Chapter 11 ramps up" comments? Yeah, I know Chapter 12 has some huge things.
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xp1337 posted...

what is this "you guys" still

Well you don't give Ch 1 enough credit so you're being lumped in with 'you guys'!

Anyway, bored at work so here's a character ranking as of the end of Chapter Five (probably forgetting someone and the profanity filter wouldn't let me use one full name)

Ion > Kanon > Cas > Renall > Greicoff > Tele-kun > Nay > Shirotaka > Tabou > Pram > Neptool
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I think around that point my ranking would look something like:

Nay > Ion > Greicoff > Kanon > Renall > Tele-kun > Cas > Tabou > Shirotaka > Neptool

I think Kanon was in the middle of surging from pretty low on the ranking at that point, and probably got about there.
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I don't think I can rank as if I didn't know things that I know.

Still, I would definitely have Greicoff further down than either of you, and Nay strikes me as far too low on Robazoid's list. Kanon probabbly gets dropped a few ranks relative to either of you, too, as does Renall.
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dowolf posted...

and Nay strikes me as far too low on Robazoid's list.

she is

it's by far the worst thing about his list

still banking on nay rightfully ending up in the top 2 by the end though
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Nay clearly had a reason for her part in 4 but until I learn what it is I can't fully forgive her. I'm not a saint like Ion!

I did forget that I liked how she actually pulled the trigger instead of just threatening to, though, so on second thought I'd put her above Tele-kun
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just watched video 165.

Hooray for casual sexism!

god dammit Japan
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Video progress: 91/252

I only watched two videos because there was a game I was super hyped to play and I started it early because I didn't know how long it would take me. Still, I'll catch up on Ciel during the weekend since I have Monday off!

Chapter Six started on a high note, though. Sarly is already challenging Cas' position in my ranking! I didn't mention it before but I had this dumb theory that Noel was Sarly (both dying from some disease, Noel masking his voice for some reason) but oddly enough, now that I've seen Sarly on the same colony Noel lives on, I'm less sure about it. Noel is probably just some dude who works for her and the disease being common is just a byproduct of the world being crummy and in need of saving.

Now that I've said that the next video is going to confirm Noel = Sarly, isn't it?
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Chapter 9 beat.

That was a lot better than I feared. As in, I probably go with 8 > 7 > 6 = 4 > 9 > 2 > 3 > 5 > 1. A lot less time was spent on filler than I had expected. As XP said, Nay completely steals the show during her brief interlude.
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Chapter 10 beat.

I didn't expect to have the player show up out of the blue! Though maybe I should've, given that I know all about the Interdimend.

I am really aggravated by Renall's karma houdini shtick. We've seen her do a lot of awful things, including murder people in cold blood. Yet the game expects us to fully sympathize with her, to accept her as being good? I really can't.

Also I am starting to love the fact that they keep reusing the same room model for the characters to be repeatedly captured in. At first it bothered me, but it's gotten to the point where it's so campy that I crack a smile every time I see it.
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Video progress: 105/252

Chapter Six completed! It was really good, too. I still don't fully understand Nay but the hints of her past are starting to take shape so I imagine that's coming soon. The real highlight was Sarly, though! It'll be hard for anyone to beat the two princesses but Sarly has come closest so far with her personality and situation. I really liked how she interacted with everyone, too. Her friendships with Cas and Shirotaka were well-written

One interesting thing was that it felt like Ion was a background character in this chapter compared to Nay/Sarly. Ion even had a random sore throat and couldn't be the hero at the end. I'm super curious about this revelation that she's from another world, too. I mean, what does that even mean?!?

Video 105 was great too. I can relate maybe too much about getting used to being alone so Ion finding a way to connect with the terminal was touching. This is also the first time I'm truly sad I'm viewing this purely as a story, disconnected from myself, and not actively playing, I imagine it would've meant a lot more if I were in control! Like, I don't remotely consider the terminal to be 'me'. Ah well this watchthrough has been great anyway

5 > 1 > 6 > 4 > 3 > 2

Ion > Kanon > Sarly > Cas > Renall > Nay > Greicoff > Telefunken > Shirotaka > Tabou > Pram > Neptool > Zill
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chapter 6 losing to 1 and 5 what the

Sarly is great though. Probably the 3rd best character, and she immediately claims that spot.
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I loved the Ion/Kanon moments in 5 and I've always had a soft spot for openings so 1 is also hard to beat. There also still hasn't been an individual moment quite like that first song blooming the flowers. When I saw that I thought the whole game would be Ion going on adventures solving problems, so 2 was kind of a let-down when it ended on a downer rather than another miraculous save. I've gotten over it since but still, the end of Chapter 1 was pretty joyful!
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the moment with the flowers is pretty great.

I should probably move 1 up a few ranks, if I'm being fair.

also I will spell it Jill until the day I die YOU CAN'T STOP ME TECMO-KOEI.
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After watching a lot yesterday, today I didn't watch anything. I'll definitely do all of Chapter Seven tomorrow though to get myself back on track!
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I only got in two videos yesterday so I know that feeling. Watched a bunch more today if only to get to about where I meant to be yesterday. 218/252 complete.

I think I'll complete the story in two more sessions provided they're of my typical length since a good chunk of those videos are really short (we're talking 1-2 minutes short) but it's still a bit longer than I think I can feasibly pull in one session. I won't completely rule it out if I hit a point where I just can't stop... but I kinda want to avoid that if possible.

Seems like the next video actually will play the chapter/map themes in full so actually it was here all along. Truly one step ahead of me at every turn. Chapter 11 Map Theme still the champion though.
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234/252 right now.

Still watching but this is a pretty good time to comment.

And. Here. We. Go.

the hype train is leaving the station and we're never getting off it
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Okay. 241/252 and I think that will be it for the day.

I should finish tomorrow I think.
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Video progress: 127/252

I'm done chapter seven, so just in case there is anyone lurking here who doesn't already know the whole story, huge unmarked spoilers will be discussed below

I'm... not quite sure how I feel about that chapter yet (and as such I won't be doing any rankings). My feelings on Chapter Seven (and, by extension, my overall opinion of Ciel nosurge) will probably be decided by wherever the story goes next. I'm going to try and collect my thoughts below so I'm sorry if this winds up being a summary of something everyone here just recently watched

So, Ion is from another world, I understand that now (probably our world since they said she knew about lotus flowers, which are on our world). Nero is also from another, different world (because they said only Ion was missing from her world so it isn't the same place). I guess they discovered Nero in some lost technology and, for some reason, figured they should do the same thing, which resulted in Ion being pulled in. Meanwhile they were also injecting orphans with Nero's DNA for... some reason, which created Kanon. I'm clear on the past but I really don't understand how they got from there to the present.

I guess the Chimon got Kanon somehow, and since her Nero-DNA let her join with any genom they figured she'd be a good representative. However, I'm really struggling to understand how Ion, a being from another world, wound up being the Tenmon princess. It really seems like they didn't even prepare her before sending her out, and at several points it honestly felt like they were fully expecting her to fail. Hell, Renall gave the order to shoot her a few chapters ago! Sending her out there was a huge risk of a unique asset with no tangible reward that I can see. I hope they explain some of that.

Anyway, I'm not too worried about memory Ion. Nero said she was apart from the world's cycle of life and death so I imagine Ion will be immortal. However, I am extremely worried about the timeline. It was a neat moment when the screen was overtaken by static, I just hope they handle it well. I love time travel since it's a plot device that can really enhance stories... but if it's handled the wrong way it can also easily destroy them. And this wasn't a small change. Sarly and Zill founded that organization together so we're talking about changes going back years, long before the story began. If this isn't reverted or addressed, how can I know if any of the previous events happened? In a world where Zill and Sarly were cooperating, why would Shirotaka ever go to Four Seasons, for example?

I wrote a lot more about this than I thought I would, so I guess the short version is that I'm cautiously optimistic. If the story manages to stick the landing it'll be the best thing ever but if it fumbles this plot device it has the potential to irreversably ruin everything that already happened. Ugh, I want to watch more to find out but there are other things I need to do!

xp1337 posted...

***Post-Chapter 7 videos-but-not-Chapter-8-yet Spoilers***

Ion getting so depressed and broken at the end of the chapter that she refuses to talk with the player or even visit the Dream World is also a pretty amazing way to reinforce the framing device of the game as you interacting with a "real" other world and person who is experience and suffering their own issues. Also really hard to watch too.

Yeah, this was a good use of the framing device! As I said, I'm not too worried about memory Ion, but the feelings of non-memory Ion still struck me deep. Plus Renall is almost certainly dead and unless timeline shenanigans saved her Kanon's fate also isn't looking good... I'm worried about everyone except memory Ion, basically >_>
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Hard for me to comment on that since I don't know if saying "X will be explained/addressed later, don't worry" is something you want to know. But know that I am reading!

That said, I think Kanon's backstory there is something I could safely clarify now but I might want to leave it be for now just in case I'm misplacing what information you get when.

...I guess what I'm saying is if later on (or now if you want, your call!) you feel like you're still confused/something wasn't explained or addressed just give me a shout and I can either answer/clarify/mention it will be dealt with later/whatever.

Super hyped for Chapter 8 reactions though. As you can see from dowolf and my rankings, this was the top chapter for us to this point.
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252/252.

Man, if only we weren't this close to Zelda/Nier Automata I would absolutely start up Ar nosurge Plus myself too. I've actually wanted to replay it but no way I'd fit a replay in this timeframe. Arghhhh.

Ciel nosurge sooo good. I'm all sad that it isn't localized all over again, not just for the story but all the other stuff that was beyond the scope of the project. As well as the ability to link it to Ar nosurge.

Chapter 12 is complicated so I won't include it in my chapter rankings so we'll just go with my post-Chapter 11 ones as the final ones for that. I'll hold off on commentary too because I mean, at that point I can just real-time discuss it here as you get to it.

So, instead, have a character ranking!

Ion = Nay > Clacket > Sarly > Renall > Kanon > Nero > Undu > Zill > Cas > Cosal > Shirotaka > Tele-kun > Tabou

There's only one character I've left off here because you haven't been properly introduced to them yet, but they'd be in last. And I left some off obviously, because otherwise it'd get really long and such. Hopefully I didn't forget anyone I should have put there though. Greicoff was an edge case, but I decided to leave him off.

Tomorrow I'll likely watch the videos in the Misc./Special Event playlist.

I don't know if black_raen is still watching this topic, but if so, thanks again for putting this all together.
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I finished too. Don't have much to write right now, might later.

Though there's one thing I'm trying to and failing to remember, XP (DON'T READ THIS ROBA): What was the purpose of the stuff Clacket left for Sally? I can't remember for the life of me, and my PS3 is too far away to start replaying the game [and I can't really justify the time to replay the game right now anyways >_>])
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Until I've watched more, I guess my only comment is that Zill better do something to deserve not being ranked dead last. Her and Neptool are the type of villains I don't like. Renall and Nero are the kind I really like though so the cast has balanced out so far!

Glad you're both done and seem to have enjoyed it! I'm looking forward to the next month of watching for sure
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dowolf's question (Spoilers for both Ciel and Ar): I actually saw this asked on another forum and aquagon (whose knowledge of this I trust way more than my own anyways) said it was the encrypted blueprints to the Surge Concerto Terminal. ...But it doesn't really come up because she never manages to decipher them to the point where they'd be useful. "whoops"

Roba: Zill's ranking is weird for me because I really don't like her/her actions and find them mostly despicable but I find her character interesting and she drives a bunch of the action. It's not quite a love-to-hate type thing but yeah.
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I mean, I'd probably put Jill above Shirotaka and Tabou.

That's it, though. I have no idea what she's doing above Casty.

And okay. That would explain why it didn't stick in my mind.
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Video progress: 130/252

I've started Chapter Eight! I wasn't expecting a two-year timeskip. Casty being dead really makes me hope this time reset plan succeeds. I'm also starting to like Nay now that she's become the character who is saying the things I'm thinking. 'Four-squared six-axis what? Just stop talking and tell me the plan!' However, there was a time travel foul. Nay never would've been captured in a timeline where Sarly and Zill were cooperating.

Anyway, I have a question that I'd like someone (hi xp) to answer if it isn't a spoiler. At one point it seemed like they said Nero was returned to a completely different world, like she'd been tricked by Zill. Then later on they worded it like she'd been returned to her original world after all and was just in incredible pain. I need to know if Zill actually honestly tried to send her back and it just didn't work out like Nero thought it would or if Zill was evil/didn't care and sent Nero back to wherever. The answer to this will determine how effective Zill is as a villain!

Speaking of, Zill has also become a compelling villain. I hate it when villains are all 'I'm doing these evil things for the sake of someone I love' but they're also doing dozens of evil things that are completely unnecessary. Like, Neptool wanted to save Sarly and his solution was to be a jerk to a random colony. I prefer it when they just admit they're evil, and Zill has basically done that now that Undu admits she doesn't seem to care about him anymore.
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Robazoid posted...

Anyway, I have a question that I'd like someone (hi xp) to answer if it isn't a spoiler. At one point it seemed like they said Nero was returned to a completely different world, like she'd been tricked by Zill. Then later on they worded it like she'd been returned to her original world after all and was just in incredible pain. I need to know if Zill actually honestly tried to send her back and it just didn't work out like Nero thought it would or if Zill was evil/didn't care and sent Nero back to wherever.

It's a bit more complicated than that, and this all ties into your "time travel foul." Technically, I think you can infer most of this from the info you as a viewer currently have, although this will be cleared up a bit more later in the chapter as the cast tries to work it out. I'd say by the end of video 137. I'd say watch until then, and then read what I post below under spoiler tags for additional clarifications if you want it.

What Nero did was more complicated than just time travel and ties into a lot of the technical jargon that Clacket/Sarly/Undu talk about that goes over Nay's head. Basically, Ciel nosurge operates in a universe where dimensions work like this: 3D - Same as us. 4th Dimension - Time, same as us. 5th Dimension - "Possibility" (Think Alternate Universes), 6th Dimension - "Qualia" (Other people's thoughts/minds/feelings)

The 6D part is the key for this scenario. What Nero did was basically a crude hack to get what she wanted (being returned.) On a 6D level she altered how Sarly and Clacket thought so that they'd agree with sending her back immediately above all else (as opposed to how they originally thought) I'm actually slightly unclear on the actual time travel-like effects effects it had beyond that. I've always thought of Nero just hacking that particular moment without regard for anything matching up like paradoxes, which just exacerbated the problem the world is facing. As noted, it was Nero forcing this change on the world that's caused its situation to deteriorate so badly there are rifts opening up in the sky, she basically caused the world/universe to breakdown. That said, I suppose it is possible that her change also really did have the side effects in the more distant past like Sarly and Zill founding Quantize.

It always made more sense to me though that she just didn't care about that and the resulting paradoxes and such just contributed to why her shift was causing the world to breakdown.

Anyways, moving back to Nero specifically. I believe that her not being returned properly was just a mistake. Nero caused a shift to get her returned immediately, but she lacked the technical knowledge to realize that it would fail if done like that. Undu realized it because his connection with Nero allowed him to get a sense of what was happening to her right as she was being sent so he realized then that it went wrong. So basically, Zill (and Nero) didn't know that the send Nero back plan would fail, but she knows now and plans to do it to Ion the same way in spite of that.

tl;dr: I think Zill failing to send Nero back correctly was a genuine mistake borne of the fact that neither Zill nor Nero had the proper understanding of the science behind it. Nero was basically running the show in that situation with Zill just doing what she wanted since Nero had Undu. That said, I doubt Zill gave a damn about the failure since it got her what she wanted - Undu.
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xp1337 posted...

I'd say by the end of video 137. I'd say watch until then, and then read what I post below under spoiler tags for additional clarifications if you want it.

Understood, I'll do this (though I likely won't reach 137 until after Friday). Thank you in advance for the lengthy post of clarifications, though!
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Robazoid posted...

'Four-squared six-axis what? Just stop talking and tell me the plan!'

(to be fair, that part should've been a little less confusing; she simply says "the fourth root," not "four root-squared")
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No worries, I figured that'd be the case and almost said "I'll say more after video 137."

Of course now I've spent the time since I made that post overthinking it and thinking I may have some of the technical details wrong. I'll leave that there though because I think it will generally give you the idea still. I'll also add that when you get to the last video of Chapter 8, check the comments on the video, there's an explanation there that while not directly related to what you asked, it's in the same neighborhood... and also the reason why the more I think about this the more I'm unsatisfied with my own explanation. >_>

but i can cross that bridge when you're finally able to read my post anyway <_<
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Only had time for one video tonight so this is mostly a bump, but 131 actually answered my earlier question! Zill didn't purposefully send Nero to the wrong place (or send her incorrectly or whatever), it just didn't work out the way Nero hoped.
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...oh. lol. >_>

But yeah, it was an accident/not on purpose.
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I'm two episodes further, 133/252. Glad to see that scene of Tabou remembering he left the original Cielnotron behind wasn't a waste like I thought it was at the time! That's some good foreshadowing

I'm sure these small progress updates are lame to read and I apologize for that, but spreading it out like this was the only way I could fit these 59 hours into my schedule without cutting out anything else. I also have to post at least once a day so the topic doesn't purge now that I'm the only one watching (come back Zyxyz). Once I finally finish this and start Ar nosurge, though, I'll burn through that with my usual playthrough topic speed and probably be done in a week or two, so there's that to look forward to! Plus I watch almost as much during the weekend as I do during the week, so I'm sure I'll have more substantial things to say soon.
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Don't worry, I'm still just happy and thankful you agreed to do this at all!
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Robazoid posted...

If the story manages to stick the landing it'll be the best thing ever

Well, they stuck the landing

Video progress: 140/252

Yeah, I finished Chapter 8. I was like 'I'll just watch an hour like I normally do' and then I'm you nine years in the future happens and suddenly there goes my night. That was great, but once again I find myself in a position where I need to gather my thoughts. I apologize in advance, this is going to be a mess

So, Nay was the original Ion (I was wondering where her body came from... I wonder who Nero's body belonged to). My current understanding is that Revelt likely wanted an extra-dimensional being in a position to become empress, and he sacrificed his daughter to do it. I still don't understand why they need her to do this and why they didn't seem to prepare her all, but fine, I get that. However, I'm not 100% clear on the sequence of events. One memory cut off right as Fractel was about to do the transfer and the next played out with young Ion filling Nay's role of running away/being caught by Zill, but I'm not sure if that was how it actually played out or if it was a memory distortion. Like, did the transfer happen, original Ion went into a new body, and that body ran off to be caught by Zill and became Nay? Or did original Ion manage to escape before the transfer and then was caught by Zill who turned her into Nay? I'm not even sure I'm describing this confusion in a way that makes sense and it isn't even a big deal, but it's the only nagging question I have left from an otherwise amazing sequence of events. I guess I just need to know if original Ion was transferred into a new body or not. It's a scummy move either way but there's a pretty big difference between trying to sacrifice her entirely and simply moving her to a new body (which was then caught by Zill).

Anyway, Nay certainly has become a great character. However, I'm still not completely sold on why she can never ever forgive Ion. I think I'm still missing a critical piece of information since I don't know how complicit Ion was in entering their world. Nay said something about her building a machine but that could mean almost anything. If Ion turns out to be almost as much of a victim as Nay and still isn't forgiven, that's going to really sour my opinion on Nay.

They managed to revert the world, though! Only... I'm dubious that they returned to the original world. Suddenly the Tenmon have a Cielnotron server that doesn't need Nero. Suddenly Kanon is alright. Suddenly everything is working out... yeah, not buying it. Plus Ion has awakened and now she's acting like Neo at the end of the Matrix. I bet she performed her own hack on the world during that time reversion to make everything better, returning them to a more favorable alternate timeline rather than the original one.

Last question I have: Nay and Ion were the ones who went back in time, but did they replace their past selves too? Or is there still a scared Ion somewhere and another Nay being held by Zill's goons? Ah well, maybe it doesn't matter, but I am worried about Nay apparently needing regular injections to not die. Not sure how she's going to get those after going back in time!

Speaking of going back in time, this chapter handled time travel really well. It used it to examine the world/characters in meaningful ways and made perfect logical sense the whole way through, especially after I read your post explaining it further, xp! Thank you again for typing it up... and for introducing me to Ciel nosurge in the first place! This has been quite a ride already and it isn't even over yet. Time-wise I'm barely over halfway.

8 >>> 5 > 1 > 6 > 7 > 4 > 3 > 2

Ion > Kanon > Sarly > Nay > Cas > Undu > Renall > Telefunken > Greicoff > Zill > Ruray > Nero > Clackett > Shirotaka > Tabou > Pram > Neptool
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