Board 8 > ~~GAME OF THRONES~~ Discussion Topic - Sundays at 9PM (Spoilers as they occur)

(+) Yeah! (+)

oh yeah speaking of Arya and Jaqen, I think my MVP moment of the night goes to Arya

when she says she needs to find her mother and her brother and then pauses and says 'and my sister'

the look on her face as she understands for the first time that no matter how much she hated sansa when she was a silly little girl it's time to grow the **** up and realize that they are family and need to stick together in this unbelievably harsh world she's been thrust into

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Great episode - much better than I expected/feared! Opinions by plot threads:

King's Landing/The Court: Tywin is officially a boss. Very convincing scene - I like that LF was the one to tell Sansa that Joffrey would never let her go and still torment her (in the books, it was Joffrey himself), but well... it was a shrewd choice. Honourable mention to Sophie Turner here for her acting. Also, Margaery is hilariously dishonest and I like it.

Tyrion/Varys/Shae: I really like what they've done with Shae. And Dinklage has that Emmy in the bag, unless they move him up to Lead Actor for some reason, but wow. He hasn't dropped the ball all season, and still continues to impress. I like the fact that Pycelle didn't bother to play the 'senile old man' part in front of Tyrion and just straight up bullied him. The coin bit was hilarious.

Kudos also to Conleth Hill who played very convincingly throughout the season (underrated actor, IMO). I also liked the scene with Ros - reading between the lines, it conveys the impression that Varys himself is an equally - if not much more - dangerous man than Littlefinger. Might as well mention that it's been two consecutive episodes now that Shae's actress has played well. She's definitely improving her game.

Jaime/Brienne: Yes. I like this. Funny thing is that Brienne could've actually lied her way through the "name" thing by just saying that her lord never told her Jaime's name, and that Jaime himself didn't bother to answer. Instead, she just didn't bother and went straight for the kill, which is a very 'Brienne' thing to do. Nice touch.

Theon "Pay the ****ing iron price" Greyjoy: Dayum Theon. I cannot recall if that Theon/Luwin scene was in the books, but that was moving and fleshed out his character so well (hell, both of their characters)! Really great acting. I also like how they resolved the whole Theon plot, in a way that departed from the books, but was still very fitting. The speech was great - only thing that bothered me was that nagging feeling that Theon's men would just never accept to fight a losing battle like this... a nagging feeling completely resolved by their betrayal.

Arya: Nothing to mention, aside from a tip of the hat to Williams and Wlasiha (especially Williams) for a season of great entertainment. I liked the fact that Arya mentioned her sister in there too.

Robb: Heeeeeh. As SilentWanderer said, I feel this would have worked better next season, especially after a time skip or something. This marriage just feels a bit hasty to me (we've seen them together, like, three times). I seem to recall that the books implied they spent way more time together - i.e. weeks. But hey, it's a pretty minor thing.

Dany Some highs and some lows. Beginning was good; snowy Red Keep + the Wall + Drogo was good and touching. The Warlock's burning, on the other hand, was awkward. It really didn't look like the dragons had very good reach, but lo and behold, guy is dead in seconds. Oh well. I will say though that I've never been a fan of the House of the Undying, so the missing scenes didn't bother me too much. The end, though, was a strong finish. Appropriate end for Xaro (though a bit cruel). And no, that wasn't in the books, but it works.

Jon Only weak part of the episode, IMO (aside from the Robb stuff, but that's really minor). I find the resolution a bit rushed, and I do feel like they departed from some really great material for something a bit more lacklustre (which is quite unusual of them). Season finale, on the other hand, was awesome. Shoutout to Dolorous Edd while I'm at it: "The best thing about Gilly is that she spoke six words to you."

Overall impressions for the season to come later.

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One thing I am a bit confused on, though. Who exactly sacked Winterfell? The men outside, erm, why would they do that? Did the Iron Islanders do it? If so, damn, that's a hell of a way to go out. But wait, Theon was betrayed so that they could buy their way out, wasn't he?

Sorry, I'm probably missing something crucial here. Just a tad confounded.

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Wait, you think Dinklage doesn't have lead actor in the bag?

Who even competes!

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I like all the acting examinations up there, Solfadore. A passion of mine, that. I agree with you that Shae's actress has really stepped up to the plate.

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From: Jeff Zero | #353
One thing I am a bit confused on, though. Who exactly sacked Winterfell? The men outside, erm, why would they do that? Did the Iron Islanders do it? If so, damn, that's a hell of a way to go out. But wait, Theon was betrayed so that they could buy their way out, wasn't he?

Sorry, I'm probably missing something crucial here. Just a tad confounded.
I don't think you're missing anything. I don't think the writers intended it to be very clear (or else there wouldn't have been the time skip).

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Yeah, true. I guess Luwin was too busy telling the little band where to go to spend much time dwelling with them on what the heck happened, anyway.

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I'm sure Dinklage will be moved to Leading Actor, he was first bill the entire season!

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I might be tempted to do an 'actors ranking' topic if I ever have the time. Anyone interested?

Obviously, it'd mostly be ranking amazing actors over simply great actors, but hey, this is Board 8. >_>

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of course

we got a whole year to talk about this

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From: Solfadore | #359
I might be tempted to do an 'actors ranking' topic if I ever have the time. Anyone interested?

Obviously, it'd mostly be ranking amazing actors over simply great actors, but hey, this is Board 8. >_>
Yeah, I'll gladly participate and critique and such if I'm around. I'm dual-majoring and acting is one of 'em.

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Best supporting actor submissions
-Peter Dinklage (Tyrion)
-Alfie Allen (Theon)
-Kit Harington (Jon)
-Richard Madden (Robb)

Best supporting actress submissions
-Emilia Clarke (Daenerys)
-Lena Headey (Cersei)
-Michelle Fairley (Catelyn)
-Maisie Williams (Arya)
-Sophie Turner (Sansa)

http://winteriscoming.net/2012/04/hbo-sends-out-2012-emmy-submissions/

Too bad Alfie Allen won't get a nom because Peter Dinkage will be going for Thrones, because Theon was fantastic this season. Jon and Robb were good but don't really deserve noms.

Cersei might have a shot at a nom, I expect they'll submit Blackwater. I spent most of the season saying "Give Arya an emmy nom". Sansa was fantastic in Blackwater, I think she may make a great actress some day. Catelyn was great but very understated, don't think she has a shot. I don't think Emilia Clarke deserves an acting nom.

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Let me know if that topic comes up, I'd love to read it.

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It's crazy how many amazing actors they have for this show. Pretty much every major character is fantastic and there's a good bit of side characters there are too.

Don't think I've seen a cast so full of winners like that in a long time.

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I actually didn't really like the episode. Maybe it's because I just caught up in the books to where the show is, but I didn't like a lot of the changes they made, particularly to the House of the Undying. No prophecies and no Others? Lame. I'm also really hoping it was actually Ramsay that sacked Winterfell and not the iron islanders.

Another thing: why was like half the episode from the beginning of book 3? They're already splitting it into two seasons, so I don't really see the need to do that...

I did love the Jaqen/Arya scene though.

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From: LordoftheMorons | #365
I actually didn't really like the episode. Maybe it's because I just caught up in the books to where the show is, but I didn't like a lot of the changes they made, particularly to the House of the Undying. No prophecies and no Others? Lame. I'm also really hoping it was actually Ramsay that sacked Winterfell and not the iron islanders.

Another thing: why was like half the episode from the beginning of book 3? They're already splitting it into two seasons, so I don't really see the need to do that...

I did love the Jaqen/Arya scene though.
I don't dislike the episode, but I didn't think it was "great". Preferred the season 1 finale. But I'm book-biased.

(Below is some talking about the books. There are no plot spoilers, I only talk about events that happened in the show and their placement in the books, but I'm being careful)

They moved a lot of the stuff up throughout the season because some people have nothing to do in the book. Well, they did stuff, but we didn't hear about it til later. For example: Robb. We didn't see it, but we heard about it later.

Further, several things that took place in Storm were concurrent with the end of Clash. For example, GRRM has stated that the Jaime stuff that we have seen in the show all happened around the same time as Blackwater, but the chapters weren't in the books until Storm. So... it mostly lines up.

And the White Walkers makes a good cliffhanger, so moving it from "season 3 prologue" to "season 3 epilogue" is a good decision.


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So before I read any of this I've gotta ask a question...

Has television peaked? Is there ever going to be another show that reaches this level of goddamn amazing? I mean Jesus ****ing Christ. I'm pretty sure what I just watched was perfection. Like... wow.

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Ranking topic: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/62998839

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What kind of powerful wizard goes for iron chains instead of illusory stone prison which we was so obviously capable of? He was a man of much heimer but not one of great wisen...

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I was confused by several of the changes from the books. What's the motivation for killing Qhorin Halfhand now? In the books he had time with Jon Snow before the wildlings got to them, and pretty explicitly laid out the plan, but unless I knew that coming in, I doubt I would understand why he did what he did.

The excision of the Bolton plot is problematic in the long term, but particularly problematic here since now we have no idea why Winterfell was sacked. Timing is also troublesome, because the fact that Luwin is still alive after the sack implies it happened within minutes, or at the most hours, which actually misleads the audience into thinking that it was the Iron Islanders. Especially misleading if they intend to bring in Bolton next season.

House of the Undying... well, we never get to see why it's called the House of the Undying. Disappointing.

I still liked the episode a lot, but it troubled me to see these departures from the book in particular because they cheapen the story. The other changes were either "whatever" or necessary.

RX7

I was confused by several of the changes from the books. What's the motivation for killing Qhorin Halfhand now? In the books he had time with Jon Snow before the wildlings got to them, and pretty explicitly laid out the plan, but unless I knew that coming in, I doubt I would understand why he did what he did.

Qhorin explained it basically to the same extent he did in the books 2 episodes ago, just very briefly and without Jon's inner monologue to accompany it. You just missed it.

because the fact that Luwin is still alive after the sack

First off, spoiler tag that paragraph before the show watchers get pissed. Second, he was still just as alive in the books. I don't see how that implies anything of the sort.

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Updated episode by episode comparison:

1: 2>1
2. 2>1
3. 2>1
4. 2>1
5. 1>2
6. 2>1
7. 1>2
8. 1>2
9. 2>1
10. 1>2

Overall 2>1. 1 did have better pacing though as a whole season.

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From: Achromatic | #354
Wait, you think Dinklage doesn't have lead actor in the bag?

Who even competes!
It starts with a B


and ends with ryan Cranston.

A man knows Jaqen is awesome.

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Dinklage wasn't even submitted as a lead actor.

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Black Turtle did a pretty good job.

KamikazePotato posted...

Dinklage wasn't even submitted as a lead actor.

Which is a good thing. He's amazing, but he doesn't have the screentime he needs to compete with Cranston and Hamm. There's only so much he can do with the one or two scenes he's given.

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When you have nothing to say, quote yourself ~ Solfadore

Speaking of Jaqen, I don't remember him mentioning that he was a Faceless Man when he gave Arya the coin in the books.

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I wanted Sonic/Shadow romance at that time, not sex. - MWE

I don't think he did either. I think he said a lot more this time about the girl coming with him etc. I think it works a lot better for this audience though, teasing what he really is and saying out loud that Arya wants to kill everyone.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Speaking of Jaqen, I don't remember him mentioning that he was a Faceless Man when he gave Arya the coin in the books.

I believe you are correct, but I think the Faceless Men had been mentioned offhand somewhere in the books before that, so readers would be able to put two and two together when he started shapeshifting. I expect that the show writers had Jaqen spell it out for everyone so that the people who only watched the TV version wouldn't be left in the dark.

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that was probably my favorite episode of the series so far. so much done right in terms of adaptation.

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Donny: Are they gonna hurt us, Walter?
Walter: No, Donny. These men are cowards.

so much done right in terms of adaptation.

Interesting, the admins of Westeros think it's the worst in terms of adaptation.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/67730-book-spoilers-game-of-thrones-an-adaptation-of-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-not-any-more/

They even deleted one of my posts. I'm liking that place less and less as time goes on.

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neonreaper posted...

that was probably my favorite episode of the series so far. so much done right in terms of adaptation.

It's funny how I can see posts like this and then go to different forums and see people exploding about not sticking exactly to the books.

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Black Turtle did a pretty good job.

Why'd they delete your post? Disagreed with them?

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CoolCly posted...

Why'd they delete your post? Disagreed with them?

Well one person said that since the OP has so many likes then there must be truth to it. I made a comment about the site being a hivemind and that if the topic wasn't made by an admin that there wouldn't be so many likes.

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EndOfDiscOne
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I don't want to be part of this fanbase anymore

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Black Turtle did a pretty good job.

I'm surprised by how many people think this season was better than the first. I thought the first was clearly better as I loved every single episode whereas there were some duds early on here in season two.

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Menji76 posted...

I'm surprised by how many people think this season was better than the first. I thought the first was clearly better as I loved every single episode whereas there were some duds early on here in season two.

I thought season 1 episodes 2-4 was the weakest stretch of the show. Not bad, just slow going. I really liked the first half of season 2.

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I think it's a wash between Season 1 and Season 2. Season 2 sacrificed some of the cohesiveness and tight storytelling of Season 1 to tell a much more expansive storyline that involved many more characters. Whichever you preferred likely comes down to which kind of story you prefer, I think.

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Black Turtle did a pretty good job.

I think Season 2 was a better Season 1 overall, but I liked Season 1 more. That's mostly my bias.

Also, why would you ever go to the cesspool that is Westeros.org

The admins there are legitimately messed up in the head. I don't mean that as flaming them, I mean that as in they have demonstrated that they are screwed up human beings.

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What gets me the most is that one of the admins, Linda, has never even finished ASoS.

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It was good to see a lot of things sort of wrap up, but I wasn't that excited about this finale.

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Virtue - "You don't need a reason to Boko United."

Having trouble finding a site that is streaming the episode. One I used for the other episodes is gone.

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The Diligent One

I assumed that since Theon wasn't shown to be killed that they burned the village as a distraction for escape.

You Only Die Once that's the motto homie YODO-Theon Greyjoy

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Started watching it for the first time
I took a nice screenshot

that horse needs to be put out of it's misery...

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From: Menji76 | #340
Great episode. Daenerys's stuff was amazing. I can't believe she locked her handmaiden in there, she was awesome. Did she lock that one guy in there in the book? I kinda forgot what happened there.

Tyrion's scene could have been handled better.
i can't tell them apart, was that the handmaiden she was close with (the one who was helping her feed the dragons when they first got to qarth) or the one that was watching them and being all snooty

i assume the one she was close with was the one that was dead when she discovered the dragons were gone?

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From: saveus_Maria | #345
yeah as much as I want to see her go with him though, I understand why she wouldn't just leave Gendry and Hot Pie behind.
what i want to know is how is hot pie so fat if he's been a commoner/prisoner/slave his entire life

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i can't tell them apart, was that the handmaiden she was close with (the one who was helping her feed the dragons when they first got to qarth) or the one that was watching them and being all snooty

i assume the one she was close with was the one that was dead when she discovered the dragons were gone?

No, this is the one that taught her how to screw, gave Viserys a good time and took an interest in her dragons. The other one was the one that was found dead.

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When you've got a pretty-boy monkey on your back constantly calling you a puppet, you hardly want to seem like you're happy to be used. - DSakaCharanJ

From: TimJab | #397
what i want to know is how is hot pie so fat if he's been a commoner/prisoner/slave his entire life
IIRC, Hot Pie's worked for a baker in King's Landing. So, it's not hard to imagine he got fat off of unsold baked goods. Or, he probably stole them, which would explain why he would be going off to the Night's Watch in the first place. And in Harrenhal, he worked in the kitchens, so he was probably well fed in comparison to other, less-fortunate prisoners.

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"I'm giving you an all-tomato, meaning that you give me the whole tomato, or else."

Hot Pie remains fat for the same reason Sam remains fat despite being in the Night's Watch.

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Black Turtle did a pretty good job.