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Board 8 > Interview with top Square Enix translator[spoony bard] [ffxiii] [frog's accent]

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Takfloyd_mkII__
04/24/12 5:59:00 PM
#1:


http://www.rpgamer.com/features/insidegaming/tslatteryint.html

Really interesting read, sheds a lot of light on oft-discussed topics such as retranslations of old games and why the writing in FFXIII sucks.

Now we know why FFIV DS has such an amazing script, why the Celes prison scene was censored, and why Frog lost his accent. Thought I'd post it here because you guys fuss a lot over stuff like this.
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#2
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LeonhartFour
04/24/12 6:14:00 PM
#3:


He doesn't work for Square anymore.

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pjbasis
04/24/12 6:15:00 PM
#4:


Cool story, bro.

Seriously it was.

Chrono Trigger DS and FFIV DS were great though. (Haven't played FFT)

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AdmiralZephyr
04/24/12 6:17:00 PM
#5:


CT is one of my favorite games and I have no plans to play the DS version, and the loss of Frog's dialect is one of the many reasons for that.

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pjbasis
04/24/12 6:22:00 PM
#6:


I guess I'll never get people clinging to old scripts.

Even if I like it (the original version), I think it adds to the fun of a new version.

Hell, I was disappointed OoT3D was hardly different, how boring!

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LeonhartFour
04/24/12 6:24:00 PM
#7:


Frog's dialect in the original CT is atrocious, grammatically speaking. Better not to have one at all than to butcher it completely like the original did.

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HeroDelTiempo17
04/24/12 6:26:00 PM
#8:


Of all the games, I've only played both translations of Chrono Trigger, of which the DS version's translation was much better.

Can't speak for the others, but interesting stuff.

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TheRock1525
04/24/12 6:28:00 PM
#9:


Man, who hates on the PSP FFT translation?

I understand the charm of the original, but everything made a lot more sense when I was playing the PSP version.

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DeathChicken
04/24/12 6:29:00 PM
#10:


No kidding. The original translation was garbled nonsense

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LeonhartFour
04/24/12 6:30:00 PM
#11:


Pfffft, who cares about accuracy when you have charm, man

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ZFS
04/24/12 6:31:00 PM
#12:


here come the comments about olde english

even though fft psp isn't olde english!

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TheRock1525
04/24/12 6:34:00 PM
#14:


I think everyone's still just pissed about Argath.

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WazzupGenius00
04/24/12 6:39:00 PM
#15:


SNES and DS Chrono Trigger translations are both fine, except for one thing:

"One of you is close to someone who needs help... Find this person... fast."

But is this the guy responsible for "Attack when the tail's up!"

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GANON1025
04/24/12 6:40:00 PM
#16:


Why did Frog have an accent but Glenn didn't? Just another reason why that translation sucked.

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KanzarisKelshen
04/24/12 6:40:00 PM
#17:


From: TheRock1525 | #009
Man, who hates on the PSP FFT translation?

I understand the charm of the original, but everything made a lot more sense when I was playing the PSP version.


FFT's original translation highlights something that very often goes unsaid, though: sometimes, simple, plainly delivered lines can be much, much better than melodramatic, overwrought five-paragraph exchanges. Perfect example of what I'm talking about:

Miluda: Heaven? God would never say such things! In his eyes,
all are equal! He'd never let this happen! Never!

Algus: Animals have no God!!

Miluda: !!!!

That's FFT. Now War of the Lions:

Milleuda: Heaven's will? You would pin your bigotry on the gods? No god would
fain forgive such sin, much less embrace it! All men are equal in the eyes of
the gods!

Argath: Men, yes. But the gods have no eyes for chattel.

Milleuda: You speak of devils, not gods!

The former is much, much simpler - hell, the final line is literally exclamation points, but it conveys anger and outrage (and Algus/Argath's brutality and blind devotion to his 'noble' blood) much better than the latter.

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TheRock1525
04/24/12 6:41:00 PM
#18:


Actually, looking at that I'd say the latter is a lot better than the former.

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GANON1025
04/24/12 6:43:00 PM
#19:


Oh god I never played FFT but from that example it looks like the original translation was atrocious.

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KanzarisKelshen
04/24/12 6:45:00 PM
#20:


From: TheRock1525 | #018
Actually, looking at that I'd say the latter is a lot better than the former.


Grammatically, yes. But I think we're arguing at cross purposes - you're basically stating you prefer a time-shifting, polyrrhythmic piece of prog metal to a plain piano piece, while I advocate for the opposite. I can respect this (Vagrant Story's script is one of my favorites), but I think the tradeoff was not favorable for FFT.

EDIT: Or, to put it in a different way - even with the mistakes in the first one, you can perfectly understand what's going on, because the emotional undertones of the scene let you bridge the gaps left by the crappy translation. In the latter, there's no need for that, but the impact of the exchange was significantly lessened.

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tereziWright
04/24/12 6:46:00 PM
#21:


A good example. The former (original) is pretty much perfect. The latter (WotL) is in-f***ing-tolerable, and highlights why War of the Lions retranslation is so mind numbingly atrocious, even if more accurate, that it renders one of my favorite games of all time unplayable to me.

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TheRock1525
04/24/12 6:49:00 PM
#22:


In the former, Algus sounds like a raving lunatic (way too many exclamation marks). It comes off as two people yelling at each other and trying to "out-loud" each other.

In the latter, Argath (ugh) actually sounds like someone who believes he's better than common folk. His delivery has no exclamation points. He comes off as someone who isn't trying to counter-yell Milleuda, but rather making a statement of fact to her. It completely changes the dynamic and makes the scene that much better.

So it isn't just a grammatical issue. The latter is actually better at conveying Argath's contempt whereas the former makes Algus sound more like a raving idiot.

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ZFS
04/24/12 6:51:00 PM
#23:


It reads like middle school kids yelling at each other in the former. Its simpler, but it's not written well. You could find a middleground between the two, for sure. Still, I'll take the latter.

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tereziWright
04/24/12 6:52:00 PM
#24:


Algus is far better acting like he does in the original, an a****** with a quick temper. The whole stuck up douchebag fakenoble thing in WotL is boring as hell, and made me less interested in the character.

The original translation is memorable. NOTHING in WotL's translation is memorable, not one line.

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KanzarisKelshen
04/24/12 6:52:00 PM
#25:


From: tereziWright | #021
A good example. The former (original) is pretty much perfect. The latter (WotL) is in-f***ing-tolerable, and highlights why War of the Lions retranslation is so mind numbingly atrocious, even if more accurate, that it renders one of my favorite games of all time unplayable to me.


Nah, let's not be crazy here - I'm a non-native English speaker and even I can tell that one sentence doesn't flow from the other directly in the first translation - it's just that the leap you have to make from Miluda's comment to Algus' is tiny, and her reply says something that words can't convey, which is burning rage. That rage isn't there in War of the Lions, as it's replaced by a sort of...contempt I guess. Which doesn't really fit with Miluda's position as Wiegraf's brash, fiery little sister, which is why I think it's worse.

EDIT: Rock...making them look like idiots is the whole point. Miluda is consumed by blind hatred of the nobility. Algus has a similar hatred for the commoners. They ARE trying to drown each other out, that's the whole point of the exchange. Why do you think Miluda is programmed to then rush at Algus regardless of her previous AI orders after the exchange concludes? It's not because they're politely arguing their point, that's for sure.

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TheRock1525
04/24/12 6:53:00 PM
#26:


!!!! =/= burning rage.

!!!! = typical jrpg reaction where they can't come up with good dialogue so they just insert punctuation like "..." or "???" Which is right up there with "It's nothing" in terms of "jRPG dialogue that is horrendously overused."

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ZFS
04/24/12 6:53:00 PM
#27:


The stuckup noble douchebag is Algus's character. That's what he's meant to be like.

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ZFS
04/24/12 6:54:00 PM
#28:


Haha, yes. !!!!!! is Suikoden tier.

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WazzupGenius00
04/24/12 6:55:00 PM
#29:


From: TheRock1525 | #026
!!!! = typical jrpg reaction where they can't come up with good dialogue so they just insert punctuation like "..." or "???" Which is right up there with "It's nothing" in terms of "jRPG dialogue that is horrendously overused."


you forgot "[Character name] . . . "

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KJH
04/24/12 6:56:00 PM
#30:


Man, how is the former "perfect" at all. It sounds pretty typical or generic, I get no sense of style or context whatsoever to associate it to. Nothing at all about it stands out, especially the fact that Algus is stuck arguing with someone with the writing style, incoherence, and exclamation point overuse of a 10-12 year old on a message board.

The latter does a much better job to the both of them, which makes the point made a lot more relevant.

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KingBartz
04/24/12 6:57:00 PM
#31:


I like both translations of FFT. The original was more nostalgic and had a ton of classic lines, but the PSP translation is both more accurate and more pleasant to hear. I think it sounds great.

Or maybe the critics are right. Could the PSP version be worse? After all, it lacked such classic lines like this:

"I didn't think the God made holy stones but...more evil... Well... Lucavi made them to hand in this world..."

From: ZFS | #027
The stuckup noble douchebag is Algus's character. That's what he's meant to be like.


Also this

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tereziWright
04/24/12 6:57:00 PM
#32:


From: ZFS | #027
The stuckup noble douchebag is Algus's character. That's what he's meant to be like.


He's better the way he was localized originally.

Accuracy does not always equal quality. His dialogue was more memorable and interesting in the original, I really could not care less about which is technically a better translation.

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ZFS
04/24/12 7:00:00 PM
#33:


No way. This is classic Algus.

Algus: You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've
been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in
whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!

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tereziWright
04/24/12 7:00:00 PM
#34:


If excess exclamation points bother you that much, then obviously we're not going to agree on what really matters in a translation here at all. Like, I'm struggling to think of something in dialogue that bothers me less than overuse of exclamation points. It's f***ing punctuation.

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TheRock1525
04/24/12 7:02:00 PM
#35:


Accuracy does not always equal quality. His dialogue was more memorable and interesting in the original, I really could not care less about which is technically a better translation.

Remember now, this is personal preference here.

Personally, Argath is way better than Algus. I just remember him being a loud, annoying douche that was more "Thank GOD he's gone."

Don't get me wrong, the original translation has some great lines to it. But I'll take the better overall product over a few great lines and a ton of stuff awkwardly written.

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Jeff Zero
04/24/12 7:02:00 PM
#36:


Smith is good. He just got carried away.

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LeonhartFour
04/24/12 7:02:00 PM
#37:


FFT's original translation is bad in so many ways, but the retranslation often comes off as too flowery and overdone to me. I don't really like the style of War of the Lions's script, and I would honestly rather have something simple albeit crude than something overdone. Regardless, neither translation is that good. FFT's may be more accurate, of course, but I don't like how it reads.

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tereziWright
04/24/12 7:03:00 PM
#38:


From: ZFS | #033
No way. This is classic Algus.

Algus: You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've
been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in
whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!


I just really hate everything about this dialogue. Everything.

It's pretty upsetting how hard it is to describe why. I don't want anything to do with a game where everyone talks like this.

It's why I can't tolerate Let Us Cling Together as well. I just cannot stand reading that.

What's even more confusing is that I love spoken dialogue like this, I just hate it written.

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TheRock1525
04/24/12 7:03:00 PM
#39:


WazzupGenius00 posted...
From: TheRock1525 | #026
!!!! = typical jrpg reaction where they can't come up with good dialogue so they just insert punctuation like "..." or "???" Which is right up there with "It's nothing" in terms of "jRPG dialogue that is horrendously overused."
you forgot "[Character name] . . . "

Oh my god, yes.

You know, I wish this s*** didn't come over once we started voice acting. But sadly, it has.

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tereziWright
04/24/12 7:04:00 PM
#40:


I just remember him being a loud, annoying douche that was more "Thank GOD he's gone."

Yes, exactly as it should be. That's why the original is better.

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ZFS
04/24/12 7:04:00 PM
#41:


Overusing exclamation points is nearly as bad as ellipses in the middle of sentences. At some point you'll want to value readability and writing over 'is this super simple and silly.' I mean, I can understand not liking how dramatic the writing is in FFT PSP, but hopefully you have a better standard than FFT PS1.

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LeonhartFour
04/24/12 7:04:00 PM
#42:


Also you're supposed to be glad Algus is gone

He's the scum of the earth

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ZFS
04/24/12 7:04:00 PM
#43:


Jeff Zero posted...
Smith is good. He just got carried away.

He didn't work on FFT. He handled FFXII.

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KanzarisKelshen
04/24/12 7:05:00 PM
#44:


From: LeonhartFour | #042
Also you're supposed to be glad Algus is gone

He's the scum of the earth


This is pretty much the point, yes, and why I'm not bothered by Miluda and Algus being incoherent. They're both idiots who believe fervently in their ideals, but are really lapdogs of people with better heads on their shoulders. The 'pot kettle black' vibe of that exchange is exactly the point of it - they're really no different in their zeal and methods, just the sides they pick.

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ZFS
04/24/12 7:06:00 PM
#45:


Also, yes, Alex Smith is awesome. He does the best localizations in the industry.

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KanzarisKelshen
04/24/12 7:07:00 PM
#46:


From: ZFS | #041
Overusing exclamation points is nearly as bad as ellipses in the middle of sentences. At some point you'll want to value readability and writing over 'is this super simple and silly.' I mean, I can understand not liking how dramatic the writing is in FFT PSP, but hopefully you have a better standard than FFT PS1.


This is why I think it's good to point to Vagrant Story, which is ironically the game probably most closely related to FFT overall. That's an example of the flowery style done well, because it manages to feel like the way people would actually speak, while being grandiose and medieval.

EDIT: Beaten, but I couldn't be happier. Alexander O. Smith 'da bess'

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tereziWright
04/24/12 7:10:00 PM
#47:


I was unable to tolerate getting far enough into WotL to get to Mustadio, does he have the same overly verbose unnecessary flowery dialogue? That's one character that I don't think anyone could possibly defend talking like that.

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Jeff Zero
04/24/12 7:10:00 PM
#48:


ZFS posted...
Jeff Zero posted...
Smith is good. He just got carried away.

He didn't work on FFT. He handled FFXII.

I am aware he had nothing to do with the original fft.

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TheRock1525
04/24/12 7:12:00 PM
#49:


tereziWright posted...
I just remember him being a loud, annoying douche that was more "Thank GOD he's gone."

Yes, exactly as it should be. That's why the original is better.

I think you missed the point:

I wanted Algus gone because he's a loud, annoying douche.

I wanted Argath gone because I legitimately despised him.

There's a huge difference between the two. It's the reason why you'd want to kill a character like Navi and you'd want to kill a character like Sephiroth or something.

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ZFS
04/24/12 7:12:00 PM
#50:


I meant the PSP version.

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