Board 8 > So, for anyone whining about Diablo 3...

(+) Yeah! (+)

For difficulty whiners:



Start at about 40:00

For customization whiners:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3811455085

Those are the two main ones. And both equally baseless.

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Joyrock
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You really care about this, don't you?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw

Not hugely, but I don't have a lot of better things to talk about right now!

And it's also some pretty neat information on the off chance it draws more people in.

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Joyrock
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my computer sucks too much to run the game

neither link helps me

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I can't say I really care for Diablo 3 after playing the beta, though it's not really for either of the reasons listed here. (Well, customization plays into it a bit, but not in the same way as most of the folks are talking about it.)
No time to discuss it now, I'm afraid. Time for me to sleep. Good luck with this topic!

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Xiahou Shake posted...
I can't say I really care for Diablo 3 after playing the beta, though it's not really for either of the reasons listed here. (Well, customization plays into it a bit, but not in the same way as most of the folks are talking about it.)
No time to discuss it now, I'm afraid. Time for me to sleep. Good luck with this topic!

I'd be glad to hear it sometime! I've heard some complaints that are legitimate and viable.

Then I've heard things like how it's bad because you aren't locked into skills, bad because you don't manually do stats, even bad because it doesn't have arrows/bolts/TP & identify scrolls, and bad because you don't manually pick up gold.

But I'll be free to listen :)

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Joyrock
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captaincanadian posted...
my computer sucks too much to run the game

neither link helps me

:(

You can't really blame that on the game though, Blizzard made pretty serious efforts to make it playable for a huge group of people.

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Joyrock
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So, I kinda want to get into this series.

Is it an MMO or something?

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pjbasis posted...
So, I kinda want to get into this series.

Is it an MMO or something?

Nope. It shares some qualities(more in this iteration) but it's still vastly different. It's an action RPG that focuses heavily on point and click combat; the core gameplay is very, very simple. There's lots and lots of customization, items, dungeons to explore, lore behind the story, etc etc.

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From: pjbasis | #008
So, I kinda want to get into this series.

Is it an MMO or something?

Hack n Slash.

You see things that move, you kill them.

Thats pretty much it. Diablo does it fantastically and oddly addicting.

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pjbasis posted...
So, I kinda want to get into this series.

Is it an MMO or something?

Isometric dungeon crawler with instanced worlds. Others can join your world if you want them to and the difficulty/loot increases, but you don't have to play with others. The loot system will remind you of a MMO's, kinda. Diablo 2 is still played regularly and is awesome to this day, definitely worth a try.

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How similar is it to Fallout?

That's the only point and click RPG I've played.

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pjbasis posted...
How similar is it to Fallout?

That's the only point and click RPG I've played.

Not at all. Stats really play a backseat role until you get to the harder difficulties, and the game is pure combat.

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Joyrock
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[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

So where can I get the first two games?

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pjbasis posted...
So where can I get the first two games?

I believe Bliz offers them on their website.

A word of warning though: They are dated and D3 has some significant changes(as noted in my links). They aren't bad, but don't expect your D3 experience to be the same as your experience with 2 or 3.

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Joyrock
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That video was a good hype thing and I enjoyed watching it but it didn't really alleviate much of my concern about the difficulty. I was kinda hyped when they were saying they were going to make monsters after act 1 faster/have more attacks but they didn't really stress that this would happen in NM/Hell/Inferno vs normal so still I'm not sure it'll be too different than d2, which kinda already did this. (gloams in a3 and up are more difficult enemy patterns to cope with than say a1 zombies)

Beyond that it was a bunch of testamonials of guys sayin they got their ass kicked (who cares) followed by "we're adding more mods to unique monsters as the difficulty goes up." (Oh okay that's different from Diablo 2 how.)
'
Even if they just came out and said something like they were changing their approach to difficulty and the big concern with hell/inferno wasn't going to be breaking immunities and just killing/surviving in the first place with crazy fast/complicated enemies and you're going to need to use wisely evasive skills and such to survive even when you're able to damage things fine I would've been reassured. But sounds just like more of the same from D2 (based on this video)

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Customization has been largely exported to crafting/items. The player inventory may now house the majority of character customization.

From the beginning of that post. That is my problem with it. Leveling and building your character is meaningless only items matter now and it is very clear why they chose to go this route.

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JJH777 posted...
Customization has been largely exported to crafting/items. The player inventory may now house the majority of character customization.

From the beginning of that post. That is my problem with it. Leveling and building your character is meaningless only items matter now and it is very clear why they chose to go this route.

Because it is undeniably better.

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OctilIery posted...
JJH777 posted...
Customization has been largely exported to crafting/items. The player inventory may now house the majority of character customization.

From the beginning of that post. That is my problem with it. Leveling and building your character is meaningless only items matter now and it is very clear why they chose to go this route.

Because it is undeniably better.

Nope it is because they want to maximize profit from the auction house. Character building should be important. Maybe not quite as important as items but it should matter. In this game it doesn't matter at all.

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Lopen posted...
That video was a good hype thing and I enjoyed watching it but it didn't really alleviate much of my concern about the difficulty. I was kinda hyped when they were saying they were going to make monsters after act 1 faster/have more attacks but they didn't really stress that this would happen in NM/Hell/Inferno vs normal so still I'm not sure it'll be too different than d2, which kinda already did this. (gloams in a3 and up are more difficult enemy patterns to cope with than say a1 zombies)

Beyond that it was a bunch of testamonials of guys sayin they got their ass kicked (who cares) followed by "we're adding more mods to unique monsters as the difficulty goes up." (Oh okay that's different from Diablo 2 how.)
'
Even if they just came out and said something like they were changing their approach to difficulty and the big concern with hell/inferno wasn't going to be breaking immunities and just killing/surviving in the first place with crazy fast/complicated enemies and you're going to need to use wisely evasive skills and such to survive even when you're able to damage things fine I would've been reassured. But sounds just like more of the same from D2 (based on this video)

Oh You reminded me!

I found out about something after our discussion I thought you might be interested in regarding the issue of changing skills to cope with the situation.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4241234476

Basically, the Nephalem Valor buff is something that kicks in post-60. It's a buff you receive from beating rare and champion mobs that increases your magic and gold find(a significant part of Diablo 3's gameplay). The kicker is that you lose this buff when you change your equipment or skills.

The purpose of it was two fold - one was simply to address your concern of players power gaming and switching it up to deal with every mob. The second was to deal with the issue of grinding - they didn't want players to have to fight the same 3 minute encounter over and over, but they didn't want you to have to make hour long commitments every time you wanted to play. This way you can go through actually exploring an area, killing the mobs in question in the process, and ending with a boss for the absolute best magic drops - but only if you're committing to a playstyle during, and not attempting to change it up constantly.

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JJH777 posted...
OctilIery posted...
JJH777 posted...
Customization has been largely exported to crafting/items. The player inventory may now house the majority of character customization.

From the beginning of that post. That is my problem with it. Leveling and building your character is meaningless only items matter now and it is very clear why they chose to go this route.

Because it is undeniably better.

Nope it is because they want to maximize profit from the auction house. Character building should be important. Maybe not quite as important as items but it should matter. In this game it doesn't matter at all.

Wrong on pretty much all counts.

You should not have to commit to a single build. The reasons are gone over very clearly in the article as to WHY this is a good idea. But you probably didn't actually even read it.

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Joyrock
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Looks like Blizzard isn't selling Diablo I anymore.
No way to get it legally for cheap it seems.

How good is the expansion for Diablo II?
Deciding on battle chest or vanilla.

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Okay I'll give on the whining on the skill system for now till I see how that buff works better. This Nephalem's Valor buff concept I like quite a bit and pretty much removes the issues I've had with the skill system in the first place, even if the game becomes a bit easier as a result. Playing in an optimal way for mf will probably be just as difficult, at least. If it's not the optimal thing to do to swap your skill set every area it's a really nice bonus to people who actually know how to make a good build instead of just metagaming every area.

I just hope it accumulates a lot (as in, stacking 50 bosses helps significantly more than stacking 5) to really make it worthwhile to make builds that can clear multiple areas without swapping. (and to give a point to clearing multiple areas) And that the boost is noticeable, but that goes without saying.

Resetting on death would be nice too as incentive to not die (though I guess since I usually play on HC this doesn't matter as much to me)

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Lopen posted...
Okay I'll give on the whining on the skill system for now till I see how that buff works better. This Nephalem's Valor buff concept I like quite a bit and pretty much removes the issues I've had with the skill system in the first place, even if the game becomes a bit easier as a result. Playing in an optimal way for mf will probably be just as difficult, at least. If it's not the optimal thing to do to swap your skill set every area it's a really nice bonus to people who actually know how to make a good build instead of just metagaming every area.

I just hope it accumulates a lot (as in, stacking 50 bosses helps significantly more than stacking 5) to really make it worthwhile to make builds that can clear multiple areas without swapping. (and to give a point to clearing multiple areas) And that the boost is noticeable, but that goes without saying.

Resetting on death would be nice too as incentive to not die (though I guess since I usually play on HC this doesn't matter as much to me)

Yay :)

For as much of a douche as I can be, I do much prefer peaceful endings like this.

This is probably a good time for me to get to sleep though XD

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Joyrock
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Am I justified in picturing RTS elements?

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And for as much as I mock you for not knowing how to argue, even when you do care about things, I do like to see that you are actually capable of presenting good and moreover convincing points once in a while!

Perhaps you're not quite as defective as I thought... perhaps

Anyway getting more hype for this game. Will probably buy it on release.

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I'm a Diablo fan that played the beta a bit over the weekend. I honestly wasn't as impressed and excited as I expected to be. Granted, I haven't been following the hype on this game, merely the parade of changing release dates. However, there's a few things about the game that just seem...off.

One of the things I liked about D2 was running around a huge map, and I don't have that any more. Death-by-chandelier is apparently a very common way to go. The way the skill system is set up allows for very little opportunity to use different skills. Of the two characters I played, one seemed WAY more overpowered than the other in that level range (Demon Hunter over Wizard). And just generally, the game seemed like something that had been designed for release 5 or 6 years ago; it has a lot of the same feel that Torchlight had apart from Diablo 2.

There are good aspects to the game, too, but nothing that floored me. I'm not sure how exactly, but I feel like the coolness of what I was looking for isn't there any more. I wasn't giddy to play the beta through the entire weekend (or what availability I had.) Maybe it's me. Maybe I'm simply a different person than I was 12 years ago when D2 came out. However, the magic isn't there, and that saddens me.

I can't play it because my integrated video card is unsupported ad I can't do a thing about it

I get to whine tbqh

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Dude, look, I liked the beta, and I will buy the game, but if you think Blizzard accidentally made a game where the only ability point customization that other players can't mimic is in your gear, and added an auction house where you can spend real life money, then you're just wrong. They did that on purpose and they did that knowing the implications. It doesn't make the game bad, and I know that skill-wise, there's more customization at work, but they removed individual stat point allocation and added a way to spend money to replace it knowing what they were doing.

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I still don't understand why they removed to ability to spend your own points.

It's not like they need a ****ton of coding to make it possible.

Too scared kiddies will make mistake and get mad.

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From: pjbasis | #023
How good is the expansion for Diablo II?
Deciding on battle chest or vanilla.

I can't even imagine playing D2 Vanilla at this point. LoD makes the game much much better. But for 20 vs 40 for a game you might only play for a month... I could see going for just Vanilla.

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D2 has aged pretty damn well, I think. Maybe it's just my nostalgia, but I think it's still fun to start a new character and just go. Quick and responsive controls and animations.

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I still don't understand why they removed to ability to spend your own points.
Cause it basically boiled down to

"Get enough Str/Dex for stuff, Rest on all Vit"

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From: Shoenin_Kakashi | #034
I still don't understand why they removed to ability to spend your own points.
Cause it basically boiled down to

"Get enough Str/Dex for stuff, Rest on all Vit"

Yeah, but why remove the option?

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Balance design I guess

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clearly ES sorcs with points in energy were too op

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azuarc posted...
I'm a Diablo fan that played the beta a bit over the weekend. I honestly wasn't as impressed and excited as I expected to be. Granted, I haven't been following the hype on this game, merely the parade of changing release dates. However, there's a few things about the game that just seem...off.

One of the things I liked about D2 was running around a huge map, and I don't have that any more. Death-by-chandelier is apparently a very common way to go. The way the skill system is set up allows for very little opportunity to use different skills. Of the two characters I played, one seemed WAY more overpowered than the other in that level range (Demon Hunter over Wizard). And just generally, the game seemed like something that had been designed for release 5 or 6 years ago; it has a lot of the same feel that Torchlight had apart from Diablo 2.

There are good aspects to the game, too, but nothing that floored me. I'm not sure how exactly, but I feel like the coolness of what I was looking for isn't there any more. I wasn't giddy to play the beta through the entire weekend (or what availability I had.) Maybe it's me. Maybe I'm simply a different person than I was 12 years ago when D2 came out. However, the magic isn't there, and that saddens me.

Uhhhhh You still have the huge map. The areas were as big or bigger than anything at that point in D2. The skill system adds a TON of possibilities, far more than D2 ever did. I haven't noticed any balancing issues between any of the classes. The magic is more than there, and while you may not like the game it doesn't sound like you have any actual complaints about it.

Anagram posted...
Dude, look, I liked the beta, and I will buy the game, but if you think Blizzard accidentally made a game where the only ability point customization that other players can't mimic is in your gear, and added an auction house where you can spend real life money, then you're just wrong. They did that on purpose and they did that knowing the implications. It doesn't make the game bad, and I know that skill-wise, there's more customization at work, but they removed individual stat point allocation and added a way to spend money to replace it knowing what they were doing.

They've gone in detail into why they moved it to armor and gems. There is no evidence that they are trying just to leech money from people - there are several optional ways to get such gear. Until you see them actually trying to force you to use the auction house and exploiting the process, you have no complaints there.

Ayuyu posted...
I still don't understand why they removed to ability to spend your own points.

It's not like they need a ****ton of coding to make it possible.

Too scared kiddies will make mistake and get mad.

Because it wasn't needed and added the burden of knowledge to new players. Any given class will have the same general stat growth. It wasn't a feature that needed to be added and it detracted from the game.

Shoenin_Kakashi posted...
I still don't understand why they removed to ability to spend your own points.
Cause it basically boiled down to

"Get enough Str/Dex for stuff, Rest on all Vit"

They've also fixed the stat system so that vit is no longer the must have stat for all classes, though.

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OctilIery posted...
Uhhhhh You still have the huge map. The areas were as big or bigger than anything at that point in D2. The skill system adds a TON of possibilities, far more than D2 ever did. I haven't noticed any balancing issues between any of the classes. The magic is more than there, and while you may not like the game it doesn't sound like you have any actual complaints about it.

The outdoor map areas are small. The indoor maps are maybe just as big, yes, but the largest outdoor area I went through was the "hollow" on the way to the cemetery. There wasn't much freedom to roam and explore out there. I prefer outdoor areas to indoor most of the time. Indoor areas just feel confined typically, and I usually play a ranged character.

How does the skill system add a TON of possibilities when you can only have 6 active skills at a time? Was there some hidden option I didn't see where I could activate an ability not on my hotbar with a keyboard command? (To be fair, I never tried, so maybe the F-keys work just like before.) I mean, yeah, I can go into my skills menu and change what's on my bar, but that takes time to fiddle in the menu and then time waiting for the cooldown, at which point the moment has passed. Yes, I think it's nice that you can add one of five bonuses to the abilities, and THANK GOD that you don't have to save up 20 points for one of a select few precious skills. (IMHO 1.9 killed D2 with the synergies and the game being balanced around them because you had no choice but to max out one skill tree.) Still, I like having the flexibility to move between skills freely.

And as for the magic being there, you can't tell me what I feel. "The magic" is about how the game hits you. If it hits you in particular, great, I'm happy for you. But I didn't get that experience. I got more of a "I'm playing Diablo 2 with some stuff changed around" feeling, and none of the giddiness that should have come with finally playing a sequel that has been 12 years in the making.

You have, what, 4^6 possibilties for your skill build? Not even accounting runes, which add a helluvalot more options

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agreed that "the magic" isnt quite there with diablo 3, but theres a few reasons outside of the games control why

1) its the beta. I'll admit the most fun i had with WoW was during the beta, but that was a genre that was completely new to blizzard. It was unique and thats why "magic" was there with the beta. Diablo's gameplay at its core wasn't changed a ton from 1 to 2 either.

2) its not 2000 anymore. Online games were still relatively new in 2000. The 3D era was just kicking off, etc

Diablo 3 will be decent, but i dont see myself playing it for 3 years as my "main game" like i did with diablo 2/LoD.

They've gone in detail into why they moved it to armor and gems. There is no evidence that they are trying just to leech money from people - there are several optional ways to get such gear. Until you see them actually trying to force you to use the auction house and exploiting the process, you have no complaints there.

its a legit complaint....its stating a potential problem. Last time i checked, successful businesses, military missions, professional athletes, etc around the world try to account for any potential problems before enacting a plan.

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azuarc posted...
OctilIery posted...
Uhhhhh You still have the huge map. The areas were as big or bigger than anything at that point in D2. The skill system adds a TON of possibilities, far more than D2 ever did. I haven't noticed any balancing issues between any of the classes. The magic is more than there, and while you may not like the game it doesn't sound like you have any actual complaints about it.

The outdoor map areas are small. The indoor maps are maybe just as big, yes, but the largest outdoor area I went through was the "hollow" on the way to the cemetery. There wasn't much freedom to roam and explore out there. I prefer outdoor areas to indoor most of the time. Indoor areas just feel confined typically, and I usually play a ranged character.

How does the skill system add a TON of possibilities when you can only have 6 active skills at a time? Was there some hidden option I didn't see where I could activate an ability not on my hotbar with a keyboard command? (To be fair, I never tried, so maybe the F-keys work just like before.) I mean, yeah, I can go into my skills menu and change what's on my bar, but that takes time to fiddle in the menu and then time waiting for the cooldown, at which point the moment has passed. Yes, I think it's nice that you can add one of five bonuses to the abilities, and THANK GOD that you don't have to save up 20 points for one of a select few precious skills. (IMHO 1.9 killed D2 with the synergies and the game being balanced around them because you had no choice but to max out one skill tree.) Still, I like having the flexibility to move between skills freely.

And as for the magic being there, you can't tell me what I feel. "The magic" is about how the game hits you. If it hits you in particular, great, I'm happy for you. But I didn't get that experience. I got more of a "I'm playing Diablo 2 with some stuff changed around" feeling, and none of the giddiness that should have come with finally playing a sequel that has been 12 years in the making.

Holy **** are you really that stupid?

YOU HAVE PLAYED THE FIRST TWO HOURS OF THE GAME.

The Hollow is just as big as any comparable portion of D2.

As for the skill system, you're using as many or more than you ever did in D2, with more customization.

And I'm not telling you what you feel. I'm telling you that you don't have complaints. Which is true.

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Joyrock
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tag for when I get the chance to watch the vid

man I'm tired

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In playing the beta, i had the following two reactions...

Yep, this is Diablo.
Yep, I'm gonna enjoy this game.

Looking forward to Diablo 3, really wish I could have preordered the collectors edition or whatever it's called.

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