Board 8 > Most Powerful Fictional Character 2011: Time Trapper Prime/D. Schneider [MPFC]

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redrocket
10/19/11 7:41:00 AM
#51:


What is the basis for pegging Darsh at Skyfather level?

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muddersmilk
10/19/11 8:47:00 AM
#52:


Isn't Supes weak to magic?

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muddersmilk
10/19/11 8:50:00 AM
#53:


And wait, isn't Battledome the site where Jaime Lannister won a book character tourney that included Rand Al'Thor and the guy from Sword of Truth?

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neonreaper
10/19/11 9:33:00 AM
#54:


PRIME

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 9:43:00 AM
#55:


Again, not seeing the Prime hype at all. Unless he has a *way* better showing than in Final Crisis, where he showed some absurd durability, but that was about it. Garden variety Superman was fighting evenly with him, to put it in perspective

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 9:47:00 AM
#56:


And again, this is in stark opposition to Superboy Prime himself, who at the same time, was doing his usual 'Whup everyone' thing. Then you cut back to Time Trapper Prime, and...he doesn't do much of anything. He throws TK beams. He throws rocks. He fistfights with Superman for awhile, until the Legion call in the reserves and blast the holy **** out of him. Which is easily his most impressive feat, since it didn't bother him all that much, but his offense was nothing special up to that point

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 9:50:00 AM
#57:


From: DeathChicken | #055
Again, not seeing the Prime hype at all. Unless he has a *way* better showing than in Final Crisis, where he showed some absurd durability, but that was about it. Garden variety Superman was fighting evenly with him, to put it in perspective


Have you read Final Crisis, DC? Or Crisis on Infinite Earths?

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 9:52:00 AM
#58:


That's Superboy Prime. I'm referring to Time Trapper Prime, who in his appearances I'm seeing, seems to have lost most everything that made standard Superboy Prime a ridiculous monster

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 10:05:00 AM
#59:


He also displays next to no Time Trapper specific powers. No freezing people. No devolving them into goo. He...throws TK beams and rocks. And he certainly had every reason to *not* want to hold back, considering he was fighting Superman, who he hates above everything. Logic dictates that this version of Time Trapper just can't do that stuff. If he could, why didn't he?

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 10:09:00 AM
#60:


From: DeathChicken | #059
He also displays next to no Time Trapper specific powers. No freezing people. No devolving them into goo. He...throws TK beams and rocks. And he certainly had every reason to *not* want to hold back, considering he was fighting Superman, who he hates above everything. Logic dictates that this version of Time Trapper just can't do that stuff. If he could, why didn't he?


He also has his own personal dimension. So there's that.

From: DeathChicken | #058
That's Superboy Prime. I'm referring to Time Trapper Prime, who in his appearances I'm seeing, seems to have lost most everything that made standard Superboy Prime a ridiculous monster


Negative. He keeps it all. It's the same guy with more powers, not less.

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Pirateking2000
10/19/11 10:12:00 AM
#61:


He also displays next to no Time Trapper specific powers. No freezing people. No devolving them into goo. He...throws TK beams and rocks. And he certainly had every reason to *not* want to hold back, considering he was fighting Superman, who he hates above everything. Logic dictates that this version of Time Trapper just can't do that stuff. If he could, why didn't he?


I dunno. Why don't DBZ villains just blow the **** out of the sun to deal with the Z fighters. Because stupidity (partially joking but lol)

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 10:13:00 AM
#62:


Yeah, they were *in* his personal dimension. TTP dragged Superman and the Legion there. Then he monologued for awhile, and fought them with those thoroughly lackluster powers I just mentioned. Put Darsh in that situation and he'd eat this goon alive

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 10:24:00 AM
#63:


From: DeathChicken | #062
Yeah, they were *in* his personal dimension. TTP dragged Superman and the Legion there. Then he monologued for awhile, and fought them with those thoroughly lackluster powers I just mentioned. Put Darsh in that situation and he'd eat this goon alive


Yes, and the point is...? Cutting pieces of time to create personal universes is a classic Time Trapper power. It's another strike in TTP's favor since he displays more abilities than you gave him credit for, not less. And he survives getting smashed by Superboy Prime, too. He's the same Superboy Prime, just more prone to monologuing and armed with timehax.

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 10:28:00 AM
#64:


He doesn't *have* any timehax, is the thing. Or at least if he does, he certainly didn't use it versus Superman, when you'd think he'd *want* to use it and kill the guy

Again, that Wikipedia article on TTP says that he can only use his timehax powers on things that *aren't* in the present. I have no idea how accurate that is, but if it's the case, it would explain why he could do things like pull people around the timestream, yet when confronted by those people in the present, he couldn't do much of anything

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GANON1025
10/19/11 10:28:00 AM
#65:


So, while TTP never specifically shows a lot of the original Time Trapper's powers, it's assumed TTP has access to all of them anyway since they merged/whatever? I just want to be clear here for myself.

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 10:31:00 AM
#66:


From: DeathChicken | #064
He doesn't *have* any timehax, is the thing. Or at least if he does, he certainly didn't use it versus Superman, when you'd think he'd *want* to use it and kill the guy

Again, that Wikipedia article on TTP says that he can only use his timehax powers on things that *aren't* in the present. I have no idea how accurate that is, but if it's the case, it would explain why he could do things like pull people around the timestream, yet when confronted by those people in the present, he couldn't do much of anything


This is a very complicated thing and as I recall it just refers to *this very instant* when it says he can't manipulate the present, AKA a second in the past and in the future is fair game.

And if you want to argue that, that's on TTP's personality, not his powers. Geoff Johns wrote him like a goon there.

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 10:35:00 AM
#67:


From: GANON1025 | #065
So, while TTP never specifically shows a lot of the original Time Trapper's powers, it's assumed TTP has access to all of them anyway since they merged/whatever? I just want to be clear here for myself.


No merge, there's just been many different versions of the Time Trapper and the latest one is Superboy Prime. He displays a bunch of the powers of the Cosmic Boy Time Trapper among others, so it is a fair assumption that he can do all of the TT tricks, or at least the vast majority.

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 10:37:00 AM
#68:


...except he doesn't display *any* of those powers. Or at least not in this book, which is the big revelation of his identity. If he has better showings (and I mean TTP, not plain old Time Trapper. Those are two different characters), I'd love to see them. Otherwise, it seems like his writeup in this contest is mishmashing two characters to make something better than what TTP actually is

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GANON1025
10/19/11 10:39:00 AM
#69:


Hm, interesting..

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 10:41:00 AM
#70:


From: DeathChicken | #068
...except he doesn't display *any* of those powers. Or at least not in this book, which is the big revelation of his identity. If he has better showings (and I mean TTP, not plain old Time Trapper. Those are two different characters), I'd love to see him. Otherwise, it seems like his writeup in this contest is mishmashing two characters to make something better than what TTP actually is


What part of 'he splits a piece of time to create his own universe' is so hard to comprehend? That's the single biggest power in the Time Trapper's arsenal because it creates a full-sized universe. Not a small one like Anti-Spiral in Gurren Lagann, not a fake like the one Darsh escapes from in Bastard!!, but an honest-to-god complete universe, and then he makes the main timeline end up pulled into it. Everything else the Time Trapper can do (and I *mean* everything) is way more localized and generally less impressive than 'oh hey guys I warped an universe into being, what up'. The fact that TTP does that provides very good evidence toward him having the usual Time Trapper powers, *on top* of his Silver Age Kryptonian strength AND his Earth Prime-inherent abilities.

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 10:45:00 AM
#71:


Yeah, I'll give you that. That's the *one* Time Trapper related power that TTP ever displays in this entire silly book. He makes the pocket dimension, and grabs Superman and friends from out of the future.

And then after that, he proceeds to be an utter chump who couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag. (I'm exaggerating a little, since he does prove good enough to fight evenly with Supes and the Legion. But still. Absolutely nothing in his appearance here indicates that he can do anything *close* to that weird 'I'm Prime, and old school Time Trapper, mix and mash my powers to suit your argument' writeup of his)

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 10:45:00 AM
#72:


From: DeathChicken | #071
Yeah, I'll give you that. That's the *one* Time Trapper related power that TTP ever displays in this entire silly book. He makes the pocket dimension, and grabs Superman and friends from out of the future.

And then after that, he proceeds to be an utter chump who couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag. (I'm exaggerating a little, since he does prove good enough to fight evenly with Supes and the Legion. But still. Absolutely nothing in his appearance here indicates that he can do anything *close* to that weird 'I'm Prime, and old school Time Trapper, mix and mash my powers to suit your argument' writeup of his)


I found scans, DC. Give me two seconds to check and I'll either back you up on this or refute you with links.

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 10:47:00 AM
#73:


Please do. As said, if he has better showings than this, I'd love to see them. If he doesn't, then he's apparently a character someone fibbed heavily about during the noms

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 10:50:00 AM
#74:


'No Time Trapper powers', eh?

Pages 1 to 4 of the first issue of Legion of 3 Worlds.

external image
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Timeports Superboy Prime to the Legion's era. Again, this was the first four pages of the first issue. No Time Trapper powers my ass. I haven't even covered a single issue and I already have something against your claim.

EDIT: And as you can see from the wreckage, the timeports can be weaponized. So it even functions as an attack.

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 10:55:00 AM
#75:


Awesome. You pointed out *what I just said three posts above*, that he has no apparent problems shunting people around the timestream. Now find me a situation where he freezes people during combat. Or devolves them. Or does *any* of that cool Time Trapper related stuff in his writeup during an actual combat situation, when he doesn't have the benefit of hanging out and manipulating things from his dimension outside of time

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 10:56:00 AM
#76:


From: DeathChicken | #075
Awesome. You pointed out *what I just said three posts above*, that he has no apparent problems shunting people around the timestream. Now find me a situation where he freezes people during combat. Or devolves them. Or does *any* of that cool Time Trapper related stuff in his writeup during an actual combat situation, when he doesn't have the benefit of hanging out and manipulating things from his dimension outside of time


Currently reading through the scans. Gimme a second. The links above were just to disprove the whole 'doesn't show Time Trapper powers', which was flat-out wrong.

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 10:57:00 AM
#77:


Yeah, I'll give you that. That's the *one* Time Trapper related power that TTP ever displays in this entire silly book. He makes the pocket dimension, and grabs Superman and friends from out of the future.

Way to read. I already gave you that power, as the one Time Trapper related thing I *did* see him do in this story.

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 10:58:00 AM
#78:


From: DeathChicken | #077
Yeah, I'll give you that. That's the *one* Time Trapper related power that TTP ever displays in this entire silly book. He makes the pocket dimension, and grabs Superman and friends from out of the future.

Way to read. I already gave you that power, as the one Time Trapper related thing I *did* see him do in this story.


...That is an entirely different power. I was talking about universe creation before. Now we're talking about being able to chuck people around the timestream.

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TRE Public Account
10/19/11 11:00:00 AM
#79:


...That is an entirely different power. I was talking about universe creation before. Now we're talking about being able to chuck people around the timestream.

He mentioned that before:

"Again, that Wikipedia article on TTP says that he can only use his timehax powers on things that *aren't* in the present. I have no idea how accurate that is, but if it's the case, it would explain why he could do things like pull people around the timestream, yet when confronted by those people in the present, he couldn't do much of anything"

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 11:01:00 AM
#80:


And yet again, he does that stuff from his dimension that is most certainly not in the present time. When you get him into a situation where someone is confronting him directly, he suddenly turns into a wimp, relatively speaking. Which makes me think that the Wikipedia article was accurate, and he can only do his fancy time power manipulation on things that are *not* standing right in front of him.

If that isn't the case, please find me a scan of TTP doing any of this cool stuff to someone directly.

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 11:03:00 AM
#81:


From: DeathChicken | #080
And yet again, he does that stuff from his dimension that is most certainly not in the present time. When you get him into a situation where someone is confronting him directly, he suddenly turns into a wimp, relatively speaking. Which makes me think that the Wikipedia article was accurate, and he can only do his fancy time power manipulation on things that are *not* standing right in front of him.

If that isn't the case, please find me a scan of TTP doing any of this cool stuff to someone directly.


Does classic TT work for this? The mechanics are the same and finding scans of older versions is easy as pie. Otherwise you'll have to wait because I'm probably gonna have to upload the scans myself.

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 11:06:00 AM
#82:


As far as I recall, Cosmic Boy Time Trapper had no issues at all with stuff like that. He'd freeze you, melt you, generally do everything that's currently in TTP's writeup.

The issue is that TTP doesn't display any ability like that, that I've seen. And since they are two different characters, you can't just chuck Cosmic Boy Time Trapper's powers onto Time Trapper Prime for the hell of it. Especially when combatwise, they seem about as different as night and day.

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 11:08:00 AM
#83:


OK, so we are at least in agreement that the original mechanics of the Time Trapper say he can affect people in front of him. All you need is verification on TTP having that power. Lemme see if I can upload that. Might take me little while though.

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TRE Public Account
10/19/11 11:10:00 AM
#84:


If it would take a while to upload it, could you just describe what happens or do you need to track down the exact scene?

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 11:27:00 AM
#85:


From: TRE Public Account | #084
If it would take a while to upload it, could you just describe what happens or do you need to track down the exact scene?


Would prefer to just let everyone look at the scans and see for themselves, really. If I describe the scene people have to take my word for it, and I could get things wrong or whatever. If I post scans, everybody can just take a look and decide if my interpretation is correct without having to trust me blindly.

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Kinglicious
10/19/11 11:31:00 AM
#86:


Prime laughs at magic so no, not weak to it. And blasting him with fire, whuch is half darsh's arsenal, would end up charging him up like crazy. Otherwise its the same guy as evidenced by being a future. Version of the guy there and taking the attacks of every universe's legion. Other thab that there4 supes punching him which can draw some blood. And supes wasn't even gonna last a minute to prime and you're yold as such. Thata's pretty much the extent of what hurts him, and seeing how adult prime was like that, makes sense. Hell, he did bette than the superboy prime in the comic as he took less damage. There is nothing in there suggesting he got weaker at anything, but plkenty dsaying he was stronger and better

Other powers were def shown though. Prior to the arc start you're blatantly told he made the 3 universes where each legion team lived, he killed people in each one, and he brought them toa single past to show supes while watching. Dude travels the multiverse and dicks with time there.

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 11:33:00 AM
#87:


Posting from the phone Wang? That was a whole lotta spelling mistakes there. :P

(j/k, that's a decently accurate summary of things from the looks of it)

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 11:37:00 AM
#88:


Durability is the one thing I will give you that he impresses with. As said, pretty much every member of the Legion shows to hit him at once, and...it KOs him for a minute

Otherwise, no, he isn't half as impressive as standard Superboy Prime. And just to drive the point home, while TTP is busy being unimpressive during the final battle, Superboy Prime is elsewhere whupping *everyone's* ass, like he often does. And then it's finally topped off by Superboy confronting TTP directly, TTP trying futilely to negotiate with him, and then Prime punching him into a time paradox. Basically, that whole book drove home the point that TTP was *not* on Superboy Prime's level.

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 11:43:00 AM
#89:


I'll add to that, the very final scene where Prime confronts TTP was yet *another* situation where TTP probably could have benefited from breaking out the time freezing, or the de-evolution, or any of these cool powers he supposedly has to keep Prime from smacking him and ruining his plans. He doesn't use any of them, because ????

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Kinglicious
10/19/11 11:44:00 AM
#90:


As for other weird powers, the two dead guys were those nobody could figurer how they died. Batman though poison. You're told not quite. Time trapper'd would be the answer there.

And sides, doing any of that to supes would make no sense at all. He hates the guy and wants him removed but can't do it even with new universes. Not just him but all the influence too. No reason he'd be cheap in a fight there to supes if he wants to torture the guy anyway, or pummel him to death with his own hands. Supes is the one guy he won't cheese due to his hate.

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 11:47:00 AM
#91:


Or hell, just pull a repeat performance of what he did in the beginning of the book, and shove Prime through the timestream. The fact he could do it when he had the benefit of being on an entirely different timeframe than Prime, yet apparently couldn't when Prime was in his face probably speaks volumes

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Kinglicious
10/19/11 11:49:00 AM
#92:


Not every member of legion. He and his younger for were beating on 3 universes worth of legion members, every membrr of legion from every universe put him down for under a minute.


And yeah, on a phone, so spelling mistakes beware. And the reason the time paeadox worked is *because* he's also prime. Otherwise no paradox to blip him out or send superboy home

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Kinglicious
10/19/11 11:53:00 AM
#93:


Free-ng your past self seems like a pretty bad idea and might make a paradox happen as well. I mean you generally don't even want to contact yourself there to avoid timestream issues.

Though he was also quite shocked at how dumb he was and wasn't believing he xould or would pull something like that off.

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 12:33:00 PM
#94:


OK, found an interesting little bit with TTP: Somehow, someway, he drains the abilities of a spellcaster (who is tapping into the powers of another heroine), blocking her ability to see the future, and appearing in the flesh as he does so. Scans below. If this is part of the usual TT powerset, that is news to me, but it's coherent with Earth Prime stuff I think.

external image
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(First link shows it, third link confirms what happened)

Still fishing for other showings.

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DeathChicken
10/19/11 1:24:00 PM
#95:


I was under the impression that Mordru had done the magic draining there, since that's his whole schtick, not Time Trapper's.

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Achromatic
10/19/11 1:31:00 PM
#96:


Darsh

Read topic, Prime is overhyped it seems.

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 1:35:00 PM
#97:


From: DeathChicken | #095
I was under the impression that Mordru had done the magic draining there, since that's his whole schtick, not Time Trapper's.


Nope. Witch Girl still receives visions up until TTP intervenes...and then poof, no go. Mordru is, at the time, busy.

From: Achromatic | #096
Darsh

Read topic, Prime is overhyped it seems.


Read again. Prime's tanking feats are unaffected and Darsh can't hurt him at all. The only question is if Prime can do time-****ery to see if he can destroy Darsh before he becomes his world's most powerful spellcaster, not if Darsh can win through his own power.

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KanzarisKelshen
10/19/11 1:43:00 PM
#98:


Another scan.

external image

Unless this is what you mean by 'TK and rocks', this counts as Prime using Time Trapper powers...on people right in front of him.

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Currently playing: League of Legends, Chrono Cross.
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XIII_rocks
10/19/11 1:44:00 PM
#99:


All about Darsh here I think.

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Achromatic
10/19/11 1:45:00 PM
#100:


That's the very definition of TK and rocks.

Also Darsh has a shield for everything I do believe. He's kind of a dick like that.

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"intention doesn't matter? clearly your cashier degree did not require a law course." - ND to Joyrock on the legality of drinking a soda before paying
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