-Matches will last exactly 24 hours. Votes after that much time has elapsed will not be counted, even if a new topic hasn't gone up yet. -This is a contest to determine which character is the most *powerful*. Vote only for the character you think would win in a fight, not the one who's funnier, cooler, or sexier. If you don't do that I can't count your vote. -BOLD YOUR VOTE. Unbolded votes will NOT be counted. -Rallying is allowed. Alts are not. -Fights will take place in a neutral terrain. This does not necessarily mean a *featureless* terrain: assume that both characters will have a chance to use all of their skills to the fullest here, barring setting-specific abilities and anything that requires the presence of multiple enemies (but see below). -Characters start the fight alone. They don't bring allies with them, like Kerrigan and the Zerg Swarm for instance. Summons are allowed though, provided they're brought once combat has started. -Fighters retain their usual personalities. They won't fight to kill unless that's their MO, and won't spam their best attacks to win unless, again, that's how they act in their original media. -Similarly, fighters are unaware of their opponents capabilities at the start of the fight unless their powers facilitate them information (like knowing all there is to know in the universe - this would include who the opponent is and what he can do, as well as weaknesses) -You don't have to justify your vote, but it helps. If you feel like you can add something to the debate, go right ahead! -Seriously, BOLD THE VOTE. So important it bears repeating. -Bracket Link, for viewing past results and future matches: http://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?&tid=408528&tclass=
Past Results: Akemi Homura's time shenanigans were more than enough to secure a win over the perennial loser MPFC jobber Ness, breaking the streak of 1-seeds falling prey to round 1 upsets. She will face the winner of this match next round. Votals: 15-0
(4) Aang From Avatar: The Last Airbender, Aang is the incarnation of the Avatar, the manifestation of the world in human form. As the Avatar, Aang has the ability to manipulate (or “bend”) all four elements – air, water, earth, and fire. He is extremely agile and quick, often defending himself without bending in moves similar to Aikido; his airbending principles and personality emphasize non-aggression. Aang refuses to kill in battle.
Aang is a natural airbender and it is his signature element in combat; he is able to fight on par with powerful masters or against large numbers of opponents, creating tornadoes and large gusts of air, though he usually airbends for defensive purposes. Aang can also waterbend by creating tidal waves; earthbend by manipulating large boulders; firebend with large kicks and blasts; and even energybend, stripping an opponent of his powers (though Aang's spirit must be stronger than the person he is energybending). As a defense mechanism Aang can also enter the Avatar State, in which he has access to multiple elements at once and his powers are increased significantly; he can also fly while in the Avatar State.
vs.
(Cont., WAY too long)
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(5) Red From the Pokémon Special manga, Red is known as "The Fighter", known amongst the Pokédex holders as the most skilled at winning Pokémon duels. He is one of tehe strongest trainers in the world, having defeated several reknowned trainers (The Elite 4, Team Rocket bosses, fellow Pokedex holders). His team of Pokémon is as follows:
Level 88 Pikachu - knows Volt Tackle, the ultimate electric type move, can also generate an energy clone of itself with substitute and attack with long range electric attacks. Level 80 Poliwrath - Able to toss a ~900 lb. Steelix, uses water type moves, but is best at hand to hand combat. Level 82 Venusaur - knows Frenzy Plant, the ultimate grass type move, also skilled at using vinewhip to grab things from a distance and attacking multiple targets using razor leaf. Level 89 Snorlax - manages to stop an out of control bullet train, fights by taking advantage of its massive size and weight with moves like body slam and earthquake. Level 84 Gyarados - fights primarily using ranged attacks like hydro pump and dragonbreath. Level 85 Aerodactyl - Agile flyer, can carry Red and other Pokemon.
Some of Red's better showings include outsmarting the rogue experiment Pokémon Mewtwo and capturing him by bypassing his defenses and critically injuring (though losing to) Deoxys, a powerful opponent he knew next to nothing about.
The Pokemon similar to their game counterparts, having the same type weaknesses (but no immunities) and abilities, similar effects for their moves, and even explicit stats for hp, attack, pp etc. However, Red is not limited to having one Pokemon out at time, and will fight with his entire team of six at once in a serious fight.
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Right now I'm not entirely sure who to vote for - on one hand Aang has everybody on Red's side beat agilitywise, but on the other hand, it IS a 1v6 and the Special Squad is no joke. Gonna wait for arguments, unless the topic stalls and I have to go make some.
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I'd take Aang if it was 1 on 1, but Red will definitely use all six, and that's basically not gonna leave anywhere for Aang to be safe. Tries to go on the ground? Venusaur, Snorlax and Poliwrath. Screwed. Tries to stay in the air? Aerodactyl, Gyrados, Pikachu. Screwed. They can literally attack from every angle, and all at once. I just don't think he can overcome the numbers advantage.
-- SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996 Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif
From: Ed Bellis | #007 (3:00:01 AM) Ed Bellis: is there an option for 'aang befriends the pokemon' (3:00:10 AM) Ed Bellis: because that is the most likely thing that is going to happen (3:00:34 AM) Ed Bellis: he is going to be all nice and non-aggressive once he sees he's fighting animals (3:00:43 AM) Ed Bellis: he'll take down red once he sees red issuing commands (3:00:49 AM) Ed Bellis: and then he'll just befriend the animals (3:01:06 AM) Ed Bellis: the question thus arises if he's able to do that with six powerful pokemon attacking him, but hey!
You can vote for that. It's exceedingly unlikely that it'll happen though - not the least because Red is a pretty cool dude himself, but also because he's very smart at battle tactics and doesn't expose himself unnecessarily. He's used to getting attacked directly.
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From: Ed Bellis | #009 Batman beat Darkseid once. Does this mean Batman is stronger than Darkseid? No, because no information about the fight is provided.
He didn't beat him actually. Unless you want to argue that was a fight. He *killed* Darkseid, which is a different thing.
But from a quick skim it wasn't a plothax thing - Red had to fight to defeat Mewtwo and the same for Deoxys. He won/nearly drew those fights just by being a really good trainer.
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Aang's faster, yeah... And stronger overall. There's just nowhere for him to go. He's gonna be getting attacked from every side... This isn't "Only one ninja charges at a time" movie fighting. He attacks one and is gonna get nailed by 5 other attacks.
-- SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996 Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif
Aang can hit super-effective on 4 out of 6 of Red's Pokemon (5 if you count his martial arts as Fighting type), but he's fighting 6 on one.
Trying to direct the right element at the right Pokemon while being hammered on all sides? Not gonna happen. (and this is even assuming he would know to exploit the type advantages)
Does it really matter if he outclasses them if he is going to be getting attacked constantly? Like, he's not gonna be able to dodge, since attacks are pretty much gonna be covering the entire area. So it's more... Can he attack back when he's being constantly attacked?
-- SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996 Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif
From: PrinceKaro | #014 Aang can hit super-effective on 4 out of 6 of Red's Pokemon (5 if you count his martial arts as Fighting type), but he's fighting 6 on one.
Trying to direct the right element at the right Pokemon while being hammered on all sides? Not gonna happen. (and this is even assuming he would know to exploit the type advantages)
Red
And the Pokémon are used to fighting at a disadvantage. Venasaur beat a Charizard solo.
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From: red sox 777 | #018 He can just block all the attacks. Even if he couldn't or wouldn't normally, he definitely could in the Avatar State.
Blocking a Volt Tackle and Solarbeam at the same time is gonna be a tough sell. Those moves are no jokes.
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He can block things from all sides? And without stopping? Is it like, a shield or something, and can he attack during it? 'Cuz he'd need to. These Pokemon are ridiculous.
-- SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996 Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif
Level 88 Pikachu - knows Volt Tackle, the ultimate electric type move, can also generate an energy clone of itself with substitute and attack with long range electric attacks. Level 80 Poliwrath - Able to toss a ~900 lb. Steelix, uses water type moves, but is best at hand to hand combat. Level 82 Venusaur - knows Frenzy Plant, the ultimate grass type move, also skilled at using vinewhip to grab things from a distance and attacking multiple targets using razor leaf. Level 89 Snorlax - manages to stop an out of control bullet train, fights by taking advantage of its massive size and weight with moves like body slam and earthquake. Level 84 Gyarados - fights primarily using ranged attacks like hydro pump and dragonbreath. Level 85 Aerodactyl - Agile flyer, can carry Red and other Pokemon.
mmk those are his pokemon (just put in post so I didn't have to go back and forth.
Can his pokemon work alright if Red was incapacitated
lets face Aang may not be the "kill you" type but he sure will incapacitate you and dodge the **** out of your attacks (and htis is regular aang if we are getting into Avatar State Aang he is a monster and will be the tar out of you but won't kill you since at the end of the series he was in control)
Aang has faced his share of monsters. I mean at the beginning of the series when he was still inexperienced / not as mature he was dealing with a gyrados style serpent (and the only reason he didn't go for the way bigger one in season 3 was because he was trying to remain hidden)
Reds water pokemon are basically useless Aang is just gotta waterbend them (poliwrath uses watergun) aang freezes the stream and freezes enemy.
Aang has also shown he can redirect lightning so he could use the pokemons attacks against each other (redirect pikachu lightning into gyrados) Pokemon have shown to just be KOd so I think aang would be cool (aang has shown to be smart enought o use enemies weaknesses against them)
Now if we get into Avatar state aang (with that uber fire air water earth shield and flying around like a super saiyan) he is just going to wreck everyone with uber leveled versions of attack (yeah watergun say hello to tsunami)
now Red. If red tried to fist fight Aang he is gonna get raped / trolled as Aang casually plays keep away or just straight up freezes him / earthbend him into the ground (incapacitate him) so it will then depend on how well Red's pokemon work without orders.
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From: Pirateking2000 | #019 Level 88 Pikachu - knows Volt Tackle, the ultimate electric type move, can also generate an energy clone of itself with substitute and attack with long range electric attacks. Level 80 Poliwrath - Able to toss a ~900 lb. Steelix, uses water type moves, but is best at hand to hand combat. Level 82 Venusaur - knows Frenzy Plant, the ultimate grass type move, also skilled at using vinewhip to grab things from a distance and attacking multiple targets using razor leaf. Level 89 Snorlax - manages to stop an out of control bullet train, fights by taking advantage of its massive size and weight with moves like body slam and earthquake. Level 84 Gyarados - fights primarily using ranged attacks like hydro pump and dragonbreath. Level 85 Aerodactyl - Agile flyer, can carry Red and other Pokemon.
mmk those are his pokemon (just put in post so I didn't have to go back and forth.
Can his pokemon work alright if Red was incapacitated
lets face Aang may not be the "kill you" type but he sure will incapacitate you and dodge the **** out of your attacks (and htis is regular aang if we are getting into Avatar State Aang he is a monster and will be the tar out of you but won't kill you since at the end of the series he was in control)
Aang has faced his share of monsters. I mean at the beginning of the series when he was still inexperienced / not as mature he was dealing with a gyrados style serpent (and the only reason he didn't go for the way bigger one in season 3 was because he was trying to remain hidden)
Reds water pokemon are basically useless Aang is just gotta waterbend them (poliwhirl uses watergun) aang freezes the stream and freezes enemy.
Aang has also shown he can redirect lightning so he could use the pokemons attacks against each other (redirect pikachu lightning into gyrados) Pokemon have shown to just be KOd so I think aang would be cool (aang has shown to be smart enought o use enemies weaknesses against them)
Now if we get into Avatar state aang (with that uber fire air water earth shield and flying around like a super saiyan) he is just going to wreck everyone with uber leveled versions of attack (yeah watergun say hello to tsunami)
now Red. If red tried to fist fight Aang he is gonna get raped / trolled as Aang casually plays keep away or just straight up freezes him / earthbend him into the ground (incapacitate him) so it will then depend on how well Red's pokemon work without orders.
Problem with all of this: he has to do it all at the same time. And deal with quakes screwing up his concentration if he's on the ground. And an Aerodactyl diving him from above. And dealing with a vine assault/solarbeams. Aang is basically facing a bunch of benders, each of them strong enough to feasibly challenge some of the high-tier characters of Avatar unless I'm forgetting feats.
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Yes, he has a spherical 4-elemental shield that is beyond these pokemon's power. He has the power to rip a peninsula off a continent and send it miles out to sea to be an island.
From: Pirateking2000 | #025 ^ You forget aang can fly (and while in Avatar State he is moving at really fast speeds)
So can Aerodactyl, and both Snorlax and Poliwrath can do Fastball Specials to get Pikachu into range. A point blank massive energy discharge is going to KO Aang, lightningbending or not. And all the while Gyarados and Venasaur will be chucking long range attacks at him.
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Pirateking2000 posted... venasaur is plant based no?
Bend water in the plants and make vine whip go crazy (or just fire breath them)
Which would be fine if it was one on one and he could concentrate on doing that. I don't buy it when he's getting attacked by 5 others at the same time.
-- SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996 Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif
Also Avatar State Aang (which is what I am assuming we are going with because if Aang is in real danger / getting ganked by uber opponents its most likely he is going to go AS) hits REALLY hard
he punched Ozai (who was literally torching everything) through rock clifs like nothing.
Aang can also make rock armor (in base form) he wouldn't need to in AS since he has the UBER SHIELD.
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Aang can do area of effect attacks. Also, he'll be flying around and could take care of each pokemon in turn (using the element that counters them in many cases) if he wanted to. Don't see any of their attacks getting past his shield.
From: Pirateking2000 | #027 venasaur is plant based no?
Bend water in the plants and make vine whip go crazy (or just fire breath them)
Firebreathing? Really? Go read what I talked about above: Venasaur beat a Charizard. Alone. No tricks, no frills, just straight up victory. Not to mention that you're arguing Aang going for killing blows, which is ridiculously out of character.
Oh, and for reference: Red is considered to be on the level of Lance and Giovanni. You know those guys, right? A gym leader and the leader of the Elite 4? Well, turns out, the former's Pokémon are strong enough to be city busters. And that's one Pokémon, the weakest one. A stronger one, Tyranitar, destroys mountain ranges. Yes, you read that right: mountains. Red is on the level with him, and Giovanni has similarly impressive stuff to his credit.
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Plus Aang has AOE attacks as well perfect for multiple opponents (I mean think about it Season 1 aang was wrecking military ships by himself without avatar state...when he did go AS and moon spirit mode he just went godzilla on everyone.
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Anyway really I kinda see this match being a matter of "dodge the Pokemon until you can incapacitate Red" for Aang, since I don't see it in his style to try and fight the Pokemon if he doesn't have to. Which kinda plays to his favor because well, some of the Pokemon here are pretty tanky and Red, well, isn't. I'm running under the assumption that because it's Aang vs Red that Aang only needs to beat Red for this match to end in his favor, so yeah, I don't see Aang having much trouble dodging the Pokemon long enough to knock Red out (which honestly is probably going to be pretty easy forhim).
Aang
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From: Pirateking2000 | #041 if Aang just has to incapacitate Red (looking at Ed's post)
Aang: ...<moves hands>
Red is submerged into the earth
or Aang could just freeze him (hes done it before I believe)
(which is why I asked how well do Red's pokemon function without orders from him)
Which is, again, tremendously out of character. Aang requires a little time to enter Avatar state, doesn't he, and it's only then that he doesn't have compunctions about going for the kill, is it not? And, as I recall, the transformation is interruptible?
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And speaking about orders, one of them came to pay him a visit from a different region while he was turned to stone IIRC. So...yeah, they CAN operate independently.
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Aang doesn't have to go out of character to incapacitate Red quickly. Pretty easy to use some combination of wind air and earth to knock a guy out and I don't see him having qualms with doing that he does it in the show plenty with fire nation guards iirc. Just sweep him off his feet with wind and make the earth jut up slightly to conk him in the back of the head after he lands. It's not like he has to use full force or anything, and since Red has no real supernatural defenses or above average toughness I don't see Aang holding back from lethal force really costing him here.
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From: Lopen | #044 Aang doesn't have to go out of character to incapacitate Red quickly. Pretty easy to use some combination of wind air and earth to knock a guy out and I don't see him having qualms with doing that he does it in the show plenty with fire nation guards iirc. Just sweep him off his feet with wind and make the earth jut up slightly to conk him in the back of the head after he lands. It's not like he has to use full force or anything, and since Red has no real supernatural defenses or above average toughness I don't see Aang holding back from lethal force really costing him here.
Kind of have to get some sleep right now but I'll try to put some more info on Red when I get up. There's a couple things you guys need to be aware of. Even that big writeup misses a lot of stuff.
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I find it unlikely that Aang hits Avatar State immediately, and he's going to need it to hang in this fight. He needs a spare moment to incapacitate Red, and he's not getting that with six strong guys attacking him. He needs a spare moment to go Avatar state, and he's not getting that either. If Azula can snipe him in that window, at least half that team can. Maybe, MAYBE if he started as Avatar State he has a good shot, but I don't feel that'd be particularly in character for him. It's a good fight, but the numbers game is too much.
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Aang requires a little time to enter Avatar state, doesn't he,
In terms of like "charging up" or something?
No its kind of a "Aangs eyes glow bam hes avatar state
and remember Aang at peak power can go into AS at will (at least thats what I think happened once his chakra / connection to AS reopened in the Ozai fight)
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Red. Pokemon in the manga aren't incompetent like they are in the games, and they're a lot less 'tools' than they are in the anime. end up being a lot more like living creatures that are complete monsters. 6 on 1 and aang isn't a ruthless killer anyway. fights tend to be a lot more fluid too in that trainers do get involved with matches sometimes. so all in all, it's 6 on 1 with some of those 6 being snorlax, aero, venusaur, aero, and poliwrath. ....hell that's 5 of 'em and they aren't chumps by any means in the mangas
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