Board 8 > "Family" airline Southwest Airlines kicks a lesbian couple out for kissing

(+) Yeah! (+)

From: SlymDayspring | #196
i am not trying to argue with ulti's ridiculous point

--
_foolmo_
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From: SlymDayspring | Posted: 9/28/2011 3:21:58 PM | #200
to be fair gmun, bio's post was literally one of the best things i have ever read compared to ulti's alts post

to be fair again, Ulti's post is quite likely not serious, or at least highly exaggerated to rile people up

Bio's is just real


if you want a pick a runner-up though, it's Muffy's majority/minor post

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Southwest Airlines has always been ridiculously conservative, so this doesn't surprise me.

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"Additional reports from our employees and customers onboard Flight 2274 during a stop in El Paso on Sunday now confirm profane language was being used loudly by two passengers," the airline said.

"Although we have reports of what customers characterise as an excessive public display of affection, ultimately their aggressive reaction led to their removal from the aircraft."

Hailey and Grey acknowledged that they became upset after the flight attendant reprimanded them and told them Southwest is a family airline.

"We take full responsibility for getting verbally upset with the flight attendant," their statement said. "No matter how quietly homophobia is whispered, it doesn't make it any less loud."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/swearing-not-kissing-got-lesbian-actress-kicked-off-flight-20110928-1kw5q.html#ixzz1ZI4LGArd


So, yeah. They were asked to stop. And they did get upset/profane. Southwest did nothing wrong here, and the real ones to blame are the people that complained in the first place.

--
SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
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And this is now the second time she changed her story.

First she said they did get reprimanded and got upset over it on Twitter.

Then she said they were never told why they were being removed from the plane.

And now she's admitting that they reacted in a loud, profane manner because of the homophobia, which directly contradicts the statement she made previously of not knowing why.

I mean, homophobia sucks, but I'm finding it harder and harder to find any fault with Southwest, here, or any reason to side with her whatsoever.

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SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
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I thought she said she was never told why the attendant approached them and said to "remember that this is a 'family' airline," not that they were never told why they were being removed from the plane.

--
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]
If you can't slam with the best, then jam with the rest.

Yeah, it sucks that the passengers were probably homophobes, but it's not like the airline is going to ignore their complaints. It's safe to say that the exact same thing would have happened with a straight couple. Now it's also understandable that they got heated after being told to stop.. but the airline doesn't really have any other options at that point.

--
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WazzupGenius00 posted...
I thought she said she was never told why the attendant approached them and said to "remember that this is a 'family' airline," not that they were never told why they were being removed from the plane.


Well, even if I read it wrong and that's the case, the statement released after says she got upset because of the homophobia from the flight attendant, which means she WAS told why the attendant approached them, obviously.

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SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
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Dude, SEP, I linked to her statement about that like three pages ago.

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ocean kinda grew on me like a flesh eating ...fungus. -BIGPUN9999

A lot of cultures revere gay people, including modern America, the Greeks and the Romans

To be fair, in the case of the Greeks, it was probably because they hated women

--
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable

I must have missed it in the TSA talk and all that. I was mostly posting it since I was told I was wrong about her twitter comments/etc., and that she didn't know why/etc.

--
SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
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CrimsonOcean posted...
No, the whole point is that this whole thing stated because they were a gay couple.


Of course it did, but that's not what the actress is making this about. She's blaming the airline, when they didn't do anything wrong themselves. It's the other passengers that she needs to be ashamed of, but then you can't really sue them.

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thundersheep posted...
Yeah, it sucks that the passengers were probably homophobes, but it's not like the airline is going to ignore their complaints. It's safe to say that the exact same thing would have happened with a straight couple. Now it's also understandable that they got heated after being told to stop.. but the airline doesn't really have any other options at that point.

No, the whole point is that this whole thing started because they were a gay couple.

--
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From: CrimsonOcean | #210
No, the whole point is that this whole thing stated because they were a gay couple.

You're saying Southwest told them to stop because they were gay and making passengers uncomfortable? I find this kind of hard to believe.

What I'm saying is that if a straight couple were making out and a passenger complained to an attendant, the attendant would have to handle the situation. Sure there would probably be no complaints had it been a straight couple, but that's really not the point.

--
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I'm just saying that the same thing wouldn't have happened had it been a straight couple, because no one would have ever complained in the first place. Ya know?
And here's that link again: http://www.afterellen.com/people/leisha-hailey-and-camila-grey-release-a-statement-on-their-southwest-airlines-debacle
It's got her whole statement about the debacle.

--
http://img.imgcake.com/crimjpgpe.jpg Mo' buildings mo' problems
ocean kinda grew on me like a flesh eating ...fungus. -BIGPUN9999

I can't imagine any scenario where a straight couple kissing would kicked off an airplane so no matter what the details in this situation are it's still pretty ridiculous.

thundersheep posted...
From: CrimsonOcean | #210
No, the whole point is that this whole thing stated because they were a gay couple.
You're saying Southwest told them to stop because they were gay and making passengers uncomfortable? I find this kind of hard to believe.

What I'm saying is that if a straight couple were making out and a passenger complained to an attendant, the attendant would have to handle the situation. Sure there would probably be no complaints had it been a straight couple, but that's really not the point.

What? That's completely the point! Them being gay is pretty much what set everything in motion. And just for the record, according to them, they weren't making out.

--
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ocean kinda grew on me like a flesh eating ...fungus. -BIGPUN9999

From: GuessMyUserName | #199
oh my god how did I know this would happen

I swear, for a few seconds I was thinking "I wonder if Bio's going to sidestep and joke about my past, that would be hilarious"



Bio: WHY DO YOU GUYS HATE ME SO MUCH, LEAVE ME ALONE AND FORGET ABOUT THE PAST

*later*

Bio: HAHAHAHAH YOU LIKED A "GIRL" ON THE INTERNET SO DON'T EVEN BOTHER SAYING ANYTHING

I wasn't actually shooting for that.

Defensive, much?

--
I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
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CrimsonOcean posted...
I'm just saying that the same thing wouldn't have happened had it been a straight couple, because no one would have ever complained in the first place. Ya know?
And here's that link again: http://www.afterellen.com/people/leisha-hailey-and-camila-grey-release-a-statement-on-their-southwest-airlines-debacle
It's got her whole statement about the debacle.


That statement is just flat out confusing. They say they take full responsibility for getting verbally upset, and justify it with the homophobia comment... But above that say they weren't vulgar? If you weren't vulgar, then why are you even commenting on getting upset? That and they say they weren't told why they were approached... But then admit they got upset because of the homophobic actions against them.

I just... Am I missing something? I mean, between feeling the need to admit they got upset and taking responsibility for it, and then other employees and passengers saying that they were, in fact, vulgar... I have to assume they did. That statement just... Seems to contradict itself.

--
SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
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From: CrimsonOcean | #217
What? That's completely the point! Them being gay is pretty much what set everything in motion. And just for the record, according to them, they weren't making out.

I mean it has nothing to do with Southwest. People suck. We already know this. But we also know how things work on airplanes. If the guy in front of you leans his chair back, you can call an attendant to complain and he/she will tell the person to move their chair up. You can complain about literally anything on an airplane and they will do their best to solve the "problem" for you. That's just how it works.

I'm not saying the situation is cool and that nobody should be angry. I'm just saying you can't be angry at the airline for what happened here. It's ****ed up (mostly because it seems pretty clear that the attendant did not even see the act, and was just acting based on the complaint) but there isn't really much they could have done about it.

--
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CrimsonOcean posted...
thundersheep posted...
From: CrimsonOcean | #210
No, the whole point is that this whole thing stated because they were a gay couple.
You're saying Southwest told them to stop because they were gay and making passengers uncomfortable? I find this kind of hard to believe.

What I'm saying is that if a straight couple were making out and a passenger complained to an attendant, the attendant would have to handle the situation. Sure there would probably be no complaints had it been a straight couple, but that's really not the point.

What? That's completely the point! Them being gay is pretty much what set everything in motion. And just for the record, according to them, they weren't making out.

That's NOT the point. The point is that the Airline has to respond to complaints. Them being gay starts the situation by making the homophobes complain, but that has nothing directly to do with the airline handling the complaints about them doing whatever they were doing.

--
There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

From: thundersheep | #220
I mean it has nothing to do with Southwest. People suck. We already know this. But we also know how things work on airplanes. If the guy in front of you leans his chair back, you can call an attendant to complain and he/she will tell the person to move their chair up. You can complain about literally anything on an airplane and they will do their best to solve the "problem" for you. That's just how it works.

I'm not saying the situation is cool and that nobody should be angry. I'm just saying you can't be angry at the airline for what happened here. It's ****ed up (mostly because it seems pretty clear that the attendant did not even see the act, and was just acting based on the complaint) but there isn't really much they could have done about it.

This sums up my thoughts about the whole thing pretty much exactly. That, plus I don't know how you can come away from this believing her story in the slightest. Any kind of lawsuit that begins with a Tweet saying "I WAS DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BOYCOTT _________" is obviously just a ploy for attention.

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Ulti's "controversial" post was pretty much right anyway, so I'm not sure what the big deal is.

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Drinks glass, throws out chocolate milk.

Boycotting an airline that supports GLAAD just seems... Counter-productive. Like I said before, homophobia sucks... But then go after said homophobes. Say how disappointed you are in your fellow passengers. Don't make some big scene blaming the airline, who seems to have done nothing wrong, and make this some big agenda against them. It makes it look like you just want attention and money.

Also, they felt the need to say that this REALLY happened and wasn't a publicity stunt for their upcoming concert tour. But come see them, anyway, as it kicks off on the 8th.

That doesn't help you, lady.

Also, it appears Southwest offered an apology and a refund, and they're still filing complaints against them.

This really, really isn't helping you, lady.

--
SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
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You know what? The situation probably played out like this.

- Chicks kiss within the sight of a homophobe.
- Homophobe draws attention of flight attendant.
- Says that those two women were making out.
- Attendant walks over to ladies, explains to cut the crap, this is a family airline.
- Ladies take it to mean stop being gay.
- Stuff.

And really, if it were like that, I could understand not getting mad at the airline, but then I have to ask

who's the prick who blew the whistle?

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SEP, I just want to say, you've been on the right side and a voice of reason this entire time.

But you should really stop bringing up GLAAD as if they speak for all gays or something. Reminds me of the whole "Jesse Jackson is not the emperor of black people" thing. Like, who cares what GLAAD thinks about this airline, or anything else for that matter?

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We can't exactly rant and rave about a random homophobic bystander. What, do you want the airline to report who it was so the internet can harass them or something?

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

I read those twitter comments posted at the top of that incredibly biased and badly written article. I don't care what happened on that plane but that Leisha Hailey person seems like a dumb **** and a total drama queen and I'm just going to automatically side with the airlines. She deserves nothing.

--
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the airline is responsible for what it does. I don't see how anyone can say the airline is blameless. when someone complains about lesbians kissing, you try to get the whole story. was it PDA that everyone would be offended by regardless of circumstances? or was it harmless and the complainer overreacted? if it's the latter, you go back to that guy and tell him his complaints are illegitimate and he can board a different flight if he wants.

airlines are not forced to act, especially when their action will infringe on one person to make another happy. they should bear more responsibility in this situation than anyone else involved.

Bio if that's what you call defensive, I wonder what on Earth you call your own whimpering cries.



as for on-topic

From: CrimsonOcean | Posted: 9/28/2011 7:08:38 PM | #210
No, the whole point is that this whole thing started because they were a gay couple.

It started because the passengers didn't like gay people kissing, sure. But that doesn't mean SW is in the wrong.

If anyone complained to SW about anything, they'd have to respond to the complaint. That's what they did. If the people kissing were straight, SW would do the exact same thing.

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when someone complains about lesbians kissing, you try to get the whole story

Yeah, the flight attendants are totally going to stop in the middle of their busy job and gather evidence, launch an investigation, and interview eyewitnesses. Maybe then they'll consult case law and determine what the legal precedent is for this type of situation.

Give me a ****ing break. The common sense response is to approach the couple and say "hey, knock it off." If they weren't doing anything, the normal person response is to say "Well, we weren't doing anything, but okay" and proceed to not do anything.

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SmartMuffin posted...
when someone complains about lesbians kissing, you try to get the whole story

Yeah, the flight attendants are totally going to stop in the middle of their busy job and gather evidence, launch an investigation, and interview eyewitnesses. Maybe then they'll consult case law and determine what the legal precedent is for this type of situation.

Give me a ****ing break. The common sense response is to approach the couple and say "hey, knock it off." If they weren't doing anything, the normal person response is to say "Well, we weren't doing anything, but okay" and proceed to not do anything.

"Would there happen to be a detective on this flight? We have a dangerous case of Lesbian make-out sessions to solve!"

--
There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

From: Biolizard28 | #225
You know what? The situation probably played out like this.

- Chicks kiss within the sight of a homophobe.
- Homophobe draws attention of flight attendant.
- Says that those two women were making out.
- Attendant walks over to ladies, explains to cut the crap, this is a family airline.
- Ladies take it to mean stop being gay.
- Stuff.

This is probably the most reasonable story here. Whoever reported the PDA could have exaggerated (intentionally or unintentionally), and the Airline had to believe him without any other evidence.

--
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Hey all this is Bartz btw.

Not sure why people are saying straight couples would never get asked to stop either, that's exactly the kind of thing a soccer mom or some old lady is going to complain to the flight attendant about. Get those damn kids to stop screwin around. Especially if they have kids. If that happens, the flight attendant will go tell them to stop it with the PDA. If the straight couple got super fired up about it then they'd be kicked off the plane too. Really, there's nothing remarkable about this story besides that some woman on the L Word thinks she's a big deal and can make an even bigger deal out of this happening to her.

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Supposedly it was multiple people complaining about them, not just one, by the way

--
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]
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Yeah, the flight attendants are totally going to stop in the middle of their busy job and gather evidence, launch an investigation, and interview eyewitnesses. Maybe then they'll consult case law and determine what the legal precedent is for this type of situation.

Alternatively, you can ask a few people around the situation if they were also offended, or ask the couple exactly what they were doing. I know, I know, actually reasonable and not crazy at all.

If you determine it was just a peck or whatever people are saying, you just blow it off and move on. flight attendants already deal with this stuff on a regular basis, nothing new. I was flying five summers ago when an attendant asked me to leave the flight because they heard reports I'd been drinking. I was like "I'm 20. I can't drink." And then they realized it was the guy behind me. They escorted him off the plane, offered to let him fly on a later flight.

This kissing incident could've been resolved quickly without major incident. It became a deal because of how the airline responded and there's no way we should hold them as blameless here.

From: OmarsComin | #235
Yeah, the flight attendants are totally going to stop in the middle of their busy job and gather evidence, launch an investigation, and interview eyewitnesses. Maybe then they'll consult case law and determine what the legal precedent is for this type of situation.

Alternatively, you can ask a few people around the situation if they were also offended, or ask the couple exactly what they were doing. I know, I know, actually reasonable and not crazy at all.

If you determine it was just a peck or whatever people are saying, you just blow it off and move on. flight attendants already deal with this stuff on a regular basis, nothing new. I was flying five summers ago when an attendant asked me to leave the flight because they heard reports I'd been drinking. I was like "I'm 20. I can't drink. And then they realized it was the guy behind me. They escorted him off the plane, offered to let him fly on a later flight.

This kissing incident could've been resolved quickly without major incident. It became a deal because of how the airline responded and there's no way we should hold them as blameless here.

Ask a few other people? Really?

"Um hey you, did you see those two girls over there kissing? Was it a peck or more of a tongue-kiss? We need to know."

LOL

--
My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

Ask a few other people? Really?

"Um hey you, did you see those two girls over there kissing? Was it a peck or more of a tongue-kiss? We need to know."

LOL

Alternatively you can walk up to them and say "you need to stop, this is a family airline" and watch the ****storm when they immediately complain about being discriminated against. For me this would be a simple decision.

Going back to my own story, the attendants asked a few people around me who the complaints about drunkenness were about. This is really not out of the norm at all.

Alternatively, you can ask a few people around the situation if they were also offended, or ask the couple exactly what they were doing. I know, I know, actually reasonable and not crazy at all.

If you determine it was just a peck or whatever people are saying, you just blow it off and move on. flight attendants already deal with this stuff on a regular basis, nothing new. I was flying five summers ago when an attendant asked me to leave the flight because they heard reports I'd been drinking. I was like "I'm 20. I can't drink." And then they realized it was the guy behind me. They escorted him off the plane, offered to let him fly on a later flight.

This kissing incident could've been resolved quickly without major incident. It became a deal because of how the airline responded and there's no way we should hold them as blameless here.

Flight attendants are already busy enough. They want to end the incident as quickly and easily as possible. The quickest and easiest way is to say "hey knock it off" to which 99% of people will say "okay" or "we weren't doing anything but okay" rather than pitch a fit, get themselves thrown off a plane, and organize a boycott about it.

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OmarsComin posted...
Yeah, the flight attendants are totally going to stop in the middle of their busy job and gather evidence, launch an investigation, and interview eyewitnesses. Maybe then they'll consult case law and determine what the legal precedent is for this type of situation.

Alternatively, you can ask a few people around the situation if they were also offended, or ask the couple exactly what they were doing. I know, I know, actually reasonable and not crazy at all.

Because people never lie to make themselves look like an innocent victim at all.

--
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gmun, you didn't like a "girl"


you liked a dude and drew creepy pictures of him

It's not like the flight attendants heard one complaint and then were like "WELP YOU LESBIANS GOTTA GO"

They heard one complaint and then told them "this is a family airline" expecting them to just stop and get on with their lives but then they went all "RAAAAAH HOMOPHOBIA" and THEN they were kicked out

--
_foolmo_
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Because people never lie to make themselves look like an innocent victim at all.

let's use my analogy/personal story again since that isn't emotionally charged.

"hey I wasn't drinking I'm 20. who in this airport would even sell me alcohol."

"yeah right. because people never lie. off the plane man."

Would that be a reasonable way to handle that? Could we use that train of thought to make a decision?

I feel like you people are being purposefully obtuse and if this was about anything except homosexuals you would not be holding these positions.

OmarsComin posted...
Because people never lie to make themselves look like an innocent victim at all.

let's use my analogy/personal story again since that isn't emotionally charged.

"hey I wasn't drinking I'm 20. who in this airport would even sell me alcohol."

"yeah right. because people never lie. off the plane man."

Would that be a reasonable way to handle that? Could we use that train of thought to make a decision?

I feel like you people are being purposefully obtuse and if this was about anything except homosexuals you would not be holding these positions.

You missed the part where you got mad and started using profane language.

--
There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

Saying "this is a family airline," really isn't the best choice of words in my opinion. I don't know who among the people in this topic are gay, if any besides me and Mer, but it just seems like that can be taken completely out of context. Like "stop displaying that gay behavior, this is a family airline for God's sake you disgusting homosexual." Would someone say "this is a family airline," to a 50 year old guy giving his wife of 25 years a peck on the cheek? I don't think so.
And I think it's hard to understand that unless you've been privy to the types of social discrimination gay people are privy to.

I don't understand why everyone is so quick to side with the airline. Admittedly, I probably am a little bias toward the couple. But I feel like some people in this topic are venomously defending the airline and claiming they are in the right, when clearly that is completely not the case. Should random person x have complained? No. Should the airline have used that choice of words to confront the couple? No. Clearly they were offended. And I doubt they went from 0 to 100 just from one comment. I'm willing to bet the flight attendant egged them on in some way, even if unintentionally. That said, should the couple have become so animated about the issue? No, probably not.

I'm just tired of people acting like the couple is just out for attention. I don't think that's the case at all. And like I said, I think it's hard to understand if you've never experienced that type of discrimination before.

--
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You missed the part where you got mad and started using profane language.

They apologized and retracted their demand 10 seconds later. If the airline did the same here I doubt it'd be a story.

CrimsonOcean posted...
Saying "this is a family airline," really isn't the best choice of words in my opinion. I don't know who among the people in this topic are gay, if any besides me and Mer, but it just seems like that can be taken completely out of context. Like "stop displaying that gay behavior, this is a family airline for God's sake you disgusting homosexual." Would someone say "this is a family airline," to a 50 year old guy giving his wife of 25 years a peck on the cheek? I don't think so.
And I think it's hard to understand that unless you've been privy to the types of social discrimination gay people are privy to.

I don't understand why everyone is so quick to side with the airline. Admittedly, I probably am a little bias toward the couple. But I feel like some people in this topic are venomously defending the airline and claiming they are in the right, when clearly that is completely not the case. Should random person x have complained? No. Should the airline have used that choice of words to confront the couple? No. Clearly they were offended. And I doubt they went from 0 to 100 just from one comment. I'm willing to bet the flight attendant egged them on in some way, even if unintentionally. That said, should the couple have become so animated about the issue? No, probably not.

I'm just tired of people acting like the couple is just out for attention. I don't think that's the case at all. And like I said, I think it's hard to understand if you've never experienced that type of discrimination before.

They're actresses. They're out for attention by default. Whether that means they're out for attention in this case isn't necessarily true just because they're actresses, but it makes it more likely than some alternatives.

OmarsComin posted...
You missed the part where you got mad and started using profane language.

They apologized and retracted their demand 10 seconds later. If the airline did the same here I doubt it'd be a story.

It's sounding like the profanity was the initial response, actually. When would they apologize?

--
There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

I'm siding with Southwest too. The girl's strange account of the events would normally be enough, but I understand Southwest has an inside culture that makes sure that flights are pleasant, fun and that everyone just gets along. Their main objective is keeping their customers satisfied throughout the flight. The people in Southwest are especially selected to fit this friendly criteria, and the admission process is supposedly very rigorous in that sense. Southwest looks above all else for employees that fit their culture (that includes their GLAAD support). With that in mind, thinking some stewardess would just walk and be an ass for no reason seems unlikely. As people already mentioned, someone probably complained and she did her job. Once the girls made a scene, the crew had no choice since the couple was going against one of their main culture principles.

Apparently a bunch of people complained about them, so I doubt the girls just "modestly kissed" or "pecked" once and then got assaulted. I also want to know why the hell one of the girls has footage of the whole thing. Was she, like, prepared for this?

--
.-#Elements of Water#-.

What I got out of this topic:

-Mildly disappointed that MC didn't stay fully neutral on the issue, but I can understand it.
-Mer being as lol as ever when it comes to gay rights and such.
-SEP being cool, calm, and collected like a boss. Dude needs more recognition for this sort of stuff.
-The actress is a liar and there's no point in defending her anymore. Look at her three statements - they radically contradict each other. If this were a game of mafia absolutely everybody would be going ##Vote: Lesbians because of those contradictions.
-Bio needs to be ostracized for that attack on FD. Seriously man, that was a low, low blow. What the hell?

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Currently playing: League of Legends, Chrono Cross.
Current Projects: Fool's Overture, CYOA: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60143513

SmartMuffin posted...
SEP, I just want to say, you've been on the right side and a voice of reason this entire time.

But you should really stop bringing up GLAAD as if they speak for all gays or something. Reminds me of the whole "Jesse Jackson is not the emperor of black people" thing. Like, who cares what GLAAD thinks about this airline, or anything else for that matter?


...I only brought GLAAD up once, and that was to say that, even as they DON'T speak for all, it's still rather counter-productive to be all "LET'S END DISCRIMINATION" and then attack an airline that supports your cause, even if only part of it..

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SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif