Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 144: Cult of Personality

(+) Yeah! (+)

Cult of Personality would need to debut in an ROH city to get dat pop.

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The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Even then, I doubt it would have gotten a pop. The chat was like "....what" as soon as Cult of Personality hit. No one knew how to react.

Well people are dumb. I don't even watch ROH and *I* knew how to react!

Same way I reacted when Ryder's music hit for the Cole match!

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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^^ are you serious

I figured the majority of you guys would instantly think "CM PUNK" as soon as it hit

EDIT: directed towards Haguile (and the chat room for that matter)

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HBJ - The Voice Of The Voiceless
~Project 1000~

FFDragon posted...
Steen's doing quite nice with the simmering angle tbqh.

WWE fans aren't the same as RoH fans.

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Over at the chat, we were like "ROH invasion or...what?" it was just a bit of a surprise!

WWE fans aren't the same as RoH fans.

Difference #1: You can't fit all the WWE fans into a single high school gym!

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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And as I said, easy way to extend this storyline for a while without Punk is to have Cena throw the belt in the trash or something similar. That's an excellent "wtf" moment to end Raw on, one I'd say that's better than Punk coming back. Next week you have Cena cut a promo about how the belt isn't worth anything because the real one isn't here.

Triple H says what do you want him to do about it-- for now we've gotta "move on" or something. He hosts another tournament, one Cena isn't in, cause he can't be trusted to not toss the belt again-- Cena says he's gonna go get the title back. A dude in like a black jumpsuit interferes with the tournament causing the final result to be a no contest. Dolph Ziggler steps up, says he's going to be the interim champion having the most prestigious belt on Raw since WWE can't crown a new champion and Cena himself said the belt was worthless. CM Punk shows up at some point in the audience, says he's enjoying how the WWE is flopping around like a dying fish without their belt. Maybe at some point a Raw guy goes to Smackdown to try and bring the World Heavyweight Title over to Raw because they've got no world champion. Etc etc.

I'm rambling, and I'm not sure that's the strict order of events you'd do, but yeah, this is really easy to extend for a month without Punk around yet keeping Punk and the title a centerpiece. World title turmoil is such a great storyline to just build and build on-- the possibilities are more than enough to run with for a month. You could probably do this for a whole quarter of the year and keep it fresh.

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From: SmartMuffin | #057
Difference #1: You can't fit all the WWE fans into a single high school gym!

nor can you with roh fans

looking back at the chat, it seems like it was half and half for those that were chatting. wang probably knew the second it hit, and so did I, but I wasn't watching the chat because my TV was about 30 seconds behind and I knew something was going to happen at the end.


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ICON:
Yeezy taught me.

The fact Austin used that song for his Hall of Fame induction also threw some people off for a while.

Well when I heard Cult of Personality I knew it was a Punk reference, but I wasn't sure he was going to come out. I figured they would play it as sort of an ominous "CM Punk still exists and your title is BS" sort of way. And it's a different theme too, so it would have that element of mystery to it. Like, you THINK it's CM Punk but because it's not his signature WWE theme, you wouldn't necessarily be 100% sure (certainly the kids wouldn't be 100% sure, anyway).

I was surprised when he actually showed up.

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i knew it was a punk thing, i just didn't know if he was gonna actually come out

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TBH, I was totally expecting Cena to trash the belt to lead into next week, and yes I do think it's a better idea.

Personally I would have kept Punk off as long as crowds were chanting his name in his absence (which happened tonight). As soon as it simmered then you bring him back (though he should still be involved at Summerslam)

Of course there is an easy reason Punk comes back so soon, with Punk's issue of caring too much about wrestling causing him to confront Cena holding a belt that shouldn't even exist.

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HBJ - The Voice Of The Voiceless
~Project 1000~

Yeah Punk being involved with Summerslam is a given-- I wouldn't have him completely off TV for months, obviously. But just being in attendance at Summerslam, maybe screwing with a match or something-- that'd have been enough. No need for the match at Summerslam right off, like I'm sure they're going to do now.

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No problem!
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I knew Punk was coming when the music hit!

My AIM lagged tho.

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All things considered, while it may have been possible for them to extend Punk's absence, I'm gonna to go ahead and say that it's not a huge deal, and it's something that they can work through with minimal damage to the angle.

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From: Viktor Vaughn | #066
All things considered, while it may have been possible for them to extend Punk's absence, I'm gonna to go ahead and say that it's not a huge deal, and it's something that they can work through with minimal damage to the angle.

pretty much. I think you could have extended a Rey/Cena program the three weeks until Summerslam -- because it's really, really weird for a face authority figure to have Rey Mysterio of all people wrestle a second title match in one night against the biggest face on the roster -- and had Punk come in at the end and do the same thing, but I'm not going to complain about three more weeks of CM Punk on RAW.


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ICON:
I'm pretty serious about chocobos.

Punk returns!

Zack Ryder returns!

I think the damage has already been done for a lot of us. For me, at least, the intrigue is gone. I of course was always expecting Punk to come back but I was wondering how long he'd be gone, how many shenanigans he'd pull, etc.

The only way to limit the damage here is to play the "he's not actually employed" card next week for Raw. In fact, a perfect reversal would be for Punk not only to not be employed, but to trash the belt next week citing the reaction that Punk's world title got.

If they just start right into the "whoa champion vs champion Summerslam let's do it" hype formula that I'm expecting, blech. I'll fall asleep before Summerslam.

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

There was no damage done to me, to be honest. I loved the moment and I'm still loving the angle.

i'm still p excited

world champion vs. REAL world champion let's do this


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ICON:
When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set Bidoof on fire.

I kept my expectations low from the beginning so I'm not disappointed!

Take THAT icon!

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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could adr cash in on either of them at this point?

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I really want a segment where ADR is confused about who he is supposed to cash it in on.

Rey got Christian'd

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ADR cashing in or teasing cashing in on Punk would be amazing.

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No problem!
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that would have been an amazing end to raw, if cena and punk were sitting there staring down with the two belts, and ADR came in expecting to cash in on cena. He'd just walk up to the ring, look confused, and back away with a third failed cash-in.

(Note: I'm not saying this should have happened, this it'd completely ruin the seriousness of it, but it'd be hilarious)

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Punk should pull a Mr. Perfect, come to ringside when Cena's having a match, take his belt and smash it with a hammer

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DeathChicken posted...
Punk should pull a Mr. Perfect, come to ringside when Cena's having a match, take his belt and smash it with a hammer

And thus the WWE Hardcore title is reborn.

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No damage has been done, but imo there is now more potential for damage by having Punk back so soon, especially since they had a ready-made segment to close the show. Cena's character would absolutely have thrown the new belt in the trash because he knows he's not the true champion. That is a personality he has had for years now, which is why I think the absolute worst part of the night was Cena holding up his belt as if he believes he is the champion, because everything that has been building up the past few weeks suggests that he wouldn't do that, especially in Punk's face.

I won't worry about it too much because it can very easily be rectified next week. However I agree with Lopen in that they definitely need Punk to remain an unemployed renegade to keep the angle as hot as possible

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eh, i don't think it's against Cena's character to raise the belt there. Punk left, the belt was gone, so Cena went, fought, got a new belt. but the entire situation was abnormal.

Cena wanted to fight a guy who already wrestled a match. he agreed to this.
it's for the belt, which isn't the right one either. he fought for this. and he fought rather strangely (see: heel).
he held the belt high saying "I'm the champ now", and Punk shut him down on the spot, and Cena realized that as he lowered it then left with it low.

with Punk gone, there's no real champ, so he sits in place and settles for the belt. but the situation behind the match, the match itself, and the aftermath all point to odd behavior on Cena's end. with him, once again, realizing that Punk is right and there's nothing he can do about it. ...except this time, Punk's also the champ, and is steadily replacing him.


it's a sort of "Cena will do anything to get the belt" issue, which also tends to be a heel one and is going in that direction steadily. but it's also mixed with a corporate touch between HHH and Cena (as HHH set the match up) and Rey effectively got screwed.


if you REALLY want to run this, next week Cena vs. Rey should happen again, only with a fresh Rey who'd beat Cena clean.

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The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Punk shouldn't lose at Summerslam... but I'm betting he will.

The promos should be awesome if Punk turns this around on Cena and says "You tried to tell all of these people that I was going to turn their back on them and walk away forever, but I'm just like them! And I'm much more like them than you ever could be!" Imagine the Cena rage.

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Lopen posted...
I think the damage has already been done for a lot of us.

Pretty sure that's not true. You're just overreacting.

We were talking in chat and saying that it probably would have been better if they waited longer to bring punk back. But this doesn't ruin the intrigue at all. This story is still the best thing wwe has done at least since nexus (and I'm enjoying it more than nexus). I mean, the only way this is ruined is if we have champ vs champ at summerslam, and cena wins.

man, they do one thing that isn't up to expectations and we're back to doom and gloom town

it's not like nexus where some people were in denial about the angle tanking after two weeks (myself included)

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TG: on earth class is sorted out by who can drop the most delirious flow
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I might be overreacting a bit, yeah. sonten actually pretty accurately explained my thoughts back at post 80. If they keep with him as an unemployed renegade who just showed up on Raw because "???" then the intrigue is still there, as long as he isn't shoved in our face so often that it isn't possible to maintain the suspension of disbelief that he's not actually employed.

But yeah the potential for damage is much higher now at least. While I'm obviously just speaking for myself here, I can't imagine I'm the only one who feels this way.

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mnetioned this over AIM, but i seriously think this is an angle that continues to attack Cena's character. the bit earlier plays to that - and it works with Punk's promos too. Cena's a dynasty now. when you win once, you want a second. when you win a second, you want a third. soon you start to expect it - i'm on my fifth, my eighth, tenth - and it becomes something you must have. but Cena threw everything he had at Punk and couldn't do it. he's done it to everyone else for the past 8 years, but couldn't now.

...so where does he go? well, the show continues, a new belt gets made, a tourney's held - without him in it - and then... he fights on the same night a friend of his who already fought. the idea of a champ should rest, no. the idea of he should find who's the better man with a friend, no. he should get the belt is the only explanation you can get for the match. ....but in that case he overrode his friend and a well rested champ for the title itself, and did it by going straight through the boss. proper channels. but improperly done. and while he wants to say he's the champion... nobody, not even himself, will believe it. the man he couldn't beat is in front of him, with the right belt, yet he's holding one too. it's not a meaningless title; HHH reinstated THAT as the title. Punk is not wielding the belt currently used by WWE, therefore the legacy behind it is not harmed. the belt's constantly changed, physically it's not the same ever, what counts is the legacy held by the business. if Punk signs back up, he can fight for the new belt like anybody else, and maybe win that too, properly. but Punk's belt is not valid. the new one is. it's the official one, but it's not the right one. however it's also the only one Cena knows he can get his hands on.

writes itself from there. a slow character change, stemming off the realization that he isn't the best anymore. that he maybe never was. that he's addicted to holding the belt, obssessed on it more than those around him, and WWE will gladly bend over for him (Vince did, HHH *is* with that match of face/face). but he's getting older, peaked, and can no longer be at the top. if Rey beats him clean next week, it'd only cement that further. right now, without Punk, Cena is No. 1. with him, Cena's No. 2. but if a fresh Rey beats Cena he becomes No. 3.

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The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

And just for the record I was gloom and doom since last week for the record when they announced a tournament so quickly, and Cena not being fired. That's not how I would've done it.

Basically it goes like this... here are the three problems CM Punk leaving with the title caused:

1. Belt credibility damaged.
2. Cena fired.
3. CM Punk himself left.

So yeah three problems have become 2 right off the bat, with Cena not being fired. Which is not a huge deal, and you could even say it broke even with Vince getting ousted. Okay, fine. But the other two are shaky now too.

With the title, they're trying to just shove that aside and forget it happened-- which makes sense looking at it realistically from a business perspective, but, isn't good for really driving it home that "**** we just lost our title" feeling. They're already on shaky ground here as far as keeping the impact high.

Then if Punk comes back so quickly, it's basically down to just the title. Which is fine, if done right, but will it be? I'm not sure, and Punk being back regularly makes it even harder to do right-- sort of a "hey Punk has the real title but he's on the show so whatever" situation.

So yeah the potential for damage is really high right now. I wouldn't worry too much, but WWE's biggest writing problem at the moment is probably making things feel like they actually mean something for more than a week, sooo...

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No problem!
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I will say that if Wang is actually calling this right, though, that's actually got a lot of potential too.

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WWE.com is suggesting that Punk may be back under contract, but leaves some room for doubt.

http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/2011-07-25/suspense-of-entitlement

Amid his impactful acts on Monday night, WWE’s new Chief Operating Officer has not only re-established Jim Ross at the Raw announce booth (WATCH) and given a long-awaited opportunity to Zack Ryder (WATCH), but it seems he's also re-signed the silver tongued Second City Saint to a new WWE contract.

In the fallout of Raw on USA Network, CM Punk told the sold-out audience in the Hamption Coliseum that he's back. (EXCLUSIVE FOOTAGE) Does the bold, new era ushered in by The Game include the presumed “persona non grata,” Punk? If so, who is the true holder of the WWE Championship? The suspense of Raw’s closing moments continues forth to the next Raw – and beyond – as two entitled men both tote the lustrous symbol so greatly revered in WWE for half a century.

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yeah see, i think you kinda are getting caught in looking at the wrong spots there. the belt credibility was fine actually and would be fine even if he WERE to leave - they'd make a new one. Punk would be acknowledged, but with him gone all he's holding is a physical object. he left as the champ, effectively leaves the belt to be vacated. you make a new one just like they did. the tournament is there to remove credibility concerns and is a logical move. they dont' really want the 'we just lost our title oh god' feel going. Vince never was too worried about its credibility you'll remember - that was Cena. Vince simply did not want to be embarassed. that was it. ego.

but Punk had 2 enemies. 1 was Cena, 1 was Vince. he attacked both in the shoot-promo that's shown it's getting more and more of a work than a shoot over the weeks (and i'm sure will continue this trend until we look back and go 'wow that's amazing'), Vince retaliated, Cena defended him, and Vince's credibility is what was hurt. week later Punk comes out, rags on Vince. calls himself effectively a person for the people (face statement, face reaction) and Vince isn't (heel to both). Cena goes on as normal.

Punk leaving was never actually a problem. that's the entire point proven by last week and early this week - he left, the wheel moved on. just a cog in the machine. it's what Punk did that created the problems. what he told Vince and made Vince do is why Vince is gone. what Cena did for him, what he told Cena, and the fact that he beat Cena for the belt all takes a toll on Cena himself. Cena leaving wasn't really a problem either since really, they'd do the same thing as Punk: just keep going. that's been the theme so far, no one man is too important. not Punk, not Vince, not Cena. the belt can be fixed. the stars can be made.

but Vince is gone because of that. he did it to himself through Punk's ripples.
Cena losing the belt was also Cena's own fault. Punk pointed out where the gap between his character and his reality is, that he's a 10 time champ, is the man, and has been the guy on top forever and is refusing to let it go - going so far as to say he'll hold the belt for a year even. ego.


one enemy down. the other's being worn down. he just fought for the wrong belt, raised it like it was the right one, would've continued as if it were the right one, and got it by having a match he shouldn't have gotten that night. and even though the crowd was with him, they were with Punk more.

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The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

<_<; well champion vs. champion is the only route they can go on this. but still think they're going after character here because that's what they've been going after the entire feud and was the selling point with Vince, was the selling point with Cena's actions (especially in their match), with Punk's actions the entire way. it'd REALLY suck if no actual development happened with Cena. if that's the case then this was an entire waste, but if they went that far with Vince and have Cena even wrestling differently, there seems to be some seeds planted that are getting bigger.

also to further support my theory there - you get to The Rock. who keeps talking about the people. just like Punk is now. and he said he'd be there before WM, in MSG and IIRC that PPV's not too far off either. he keeps calling Cena a phony, that he's fake. Punk is making Cena himself realize that yes, some things aren't as he thinks they are. the REAL clutch to this - and payoff - would be if the Rock finds Cena's 'fake' belt still with him (when Cena does not have the belt that Punk is currently holding) and trashes it. that'd be the breaking point. same reason Cena punched Punk in the face (supposedly anyway) really - he's seeing what he is, has become, and doesn't like that this is it. he's enjoyed the glory but never felt, or realized, the decline, or that he's done with his journey.

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The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

I think that's the wrong way to look at it, really. I mean, that could very well be what they're going for, but it basically just turns the feud into Punk vs Cena. That's not bad if done right, but I liked it a lot better when it was Punk vs The WWE World Title and The WWE itself, with Cena acting as its defender or being the symbol of the WWE, which is what it'd been to this point. Punk has even said it multiple times-- Cena isn't his enemy, it's the idea of Cena being the best that's his enemy.

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I am liking the idea of Cena subconsciously wanting to hold onto the belt, even if it's the wrong one, at all costs in order to keep his dynasty. Punk's presence continuously looming over Cena eventually forces him to face the facts: he is the top dog and he wants to stay that way. Boom heel turn that is totally believable, and it's an effective slow burn that he can easily justify his actions but still get hated.

We'll see if WWE actually can pull it off, but they're doing good in keeping my faith that they will keep me compelled.

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HBJ - Second City Saint
~Project 1000~

the feud switching into Punk vs. Cena works if Cena directly causes it by a character change. Yes, Punk has stated that he does like Cena and he doesn't hate him personally, but that doesn't mean (kayfabe of course) Cena won't eventually hate Punk because he can't accept the truth.

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HBJ - Second City Saint
~Project 1000~

but that's the very same idea that fuels Cena himself. Punk was tired with WWE overlooking him, not using him, and punched a crater into a wall. leaving with the belt proves his point and gets to make Vince look like an idiot - win/win. so he proved his point, made Vince look like such an idiot that he got fired, and proved he's the best. likewise though, he also killed the notion that Cena was when nothing worked. that was Cena's best, and he lost. to Cena himself, that notion's gone. a loss is what he needs to cement that come next week.

but Cena broke off from defending WWE when he stopped the screwjob. and Cena is still the symbol of the WWE, but Punk doesn't feel that's right either, as the symbol should be their best wrestler. he likes Cena, but he wants to dispel the idea that Cena's the best. but to the man himself, that's personal. if you're on top for years, win championships like water flows, then get told and proven that you're not the best... what does that do to you, who has established that image already? it's personal when you yourself are the target. and considering what Punk feels the symbol ought to be, it's also forcing Cena out the spotlight he's been in. no doubt he's attached to it. even if it's in another company, it's the spotlight he wants. proved it with taking the WM main event.

after all, the best way to remove the illusion that someone is the best is to simply beat them even when they throw the kitchen sink at you. it just transitions into Cena naturally and there's not much that can be done to alter that pathway - it was always gonna come back to him. the difference is the damage: t's not a personal attack on Cena himself unless Cena himself believes it too and has a problem with that being removed (e.g., punches you in the face for suggesting it).

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The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

"I'm not on Conan O'Brian. I'm not on Jimmy Fallon. But the fact of the matter is -- I should be."



Will Jimmy Kimmel suffice?

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i hate people

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