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Board 8 > ITT: Games where the main character is less relevant to the story than Vaan is.

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KingButz
07/08/11 12:37:00 PM
#1:


I am having trouble thinking of any.

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GenesisSaga
07/08/11 12:38:00 PM
#2:


I'm not even sure if that's possible.

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LeonhartFour
07/08/11 12:39:00 PM
#3:


Apollo Justice

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KingButz
07/08/11 12:40:00 PM
#4:


From: LeonhartFour | #003
Apollo Justice


Aw **** that didn't take long. Totally forgot about that one.

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AtmaZero
07/08/11 12:41:00 PM
#5:


Crash Team Racing

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Ryo8889
07/08/11 12:41:00 PM
#6:


Is this an other one of those topics about "Vaan is the main char but has no influence in the story"


Because he isn't.
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KingButz
07/08/11 12:42:00 PM
#7:


He isn't have no influence on the story? That sentence doesn't make any sense.

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KingButz
07/08/11 12:44:00 PM
#8:


Unless you are trying to argue that he's not the main character, because that's just plain silly.

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metaIslugg
07/08/11 12:45:00 PM
#9:


Why must we have this main character discussion every six games in the series..?

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Snake5555555555
07/08/11 12:50:00 PM
#10:


Rebecca is kind of irrevelent to the story of Resident Evil Zero. She kinda just battled James Marcus a bit randomly.

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LeonhartFour
07/08/11 12:53:00 PM
#11:


From: KingButz | #008
Unless you are trying to argue that he's not the main character, because that's just plain silly.


...Why?

Because he's the character you control when you're in towns?

Is that all it takes to be the main character?

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Surskit
07/08/11 12:55:00 PM
#12:


Snake5555555555 posted...
Rebecca is kind of irrevelent to the story of Resident Evil Zero. She kinda just battled James Marcus a bit randomly.

But she's Rebecca so it's all forgiven.

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TimJab
07/08/11 12:56:00 PM
#13:


Don't believe KingButz' lies!

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KingButz
07/08/11 12:59:00 PM
#14:


Excluding the beginning prologue, Vaan is the character that is followed throughout the entire game. He is the unchangeable avatar in town areas and almost all of the story is shown from his point of view.

That makes him the equivalent of the main character in any other FF game.

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Ryo8889
07/08/11 12:59:00 PM
#15:


It doesn't (really) matter that he has no influence in the main story because he is not the main char. Why did you think they gave Balthier the line "I'm the leading man, who else?" It was the point that they were trying to make: the story from now one focuses on Balthier, Ashe and Basch. Vaan was merely used because he served as an excellent introduction for a new player, which wouldn't have worked with Balthier or Ashe or Basch.
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ZFS
07/08/11 12:59:00 PM
#16:


The main character of the story is clearly Ashe.

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LeonhartFour
07/08/11 1:00:00 PM
#17:


So who would that make the main character of FFVI?

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KingButz
07/08/11 1:02:00 PM
#18:


From: LeonhartFour | #017
So who would that make the main character of FFVI?


There is no main character in FFVI, I thought that was pretty clear. After the beginning of the game you aren't forced to play as anyone.

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LeonhartFour
07/08/11 1:02:00 PM
#19:


Also, the FFXII party almost never breaks up once you get the entire party, so it's hard to say "Vaan is the character that is followed throughout the entire game" because the entire party is "followed."

And "almost all of the story is shown from his point of view?" There are quite a few major cutscenes where Vaan is background noise joking around with Penelo because he has virtually no bearing on the story at large.

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TimJab
07/08/11 1:04:00 PM
#20:


From: LeonhartFour | #017
So who would that make the main character of FFVI?


Terra or Celes (or Kefka).

Definitely not Locke.

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KingButz
07/08/11 1:08:00 PM
#21:


some spoilers

Vaan is the main character in the epilogue. Balthier isn't even seen in the ending sequence. Although he may not be the focus in many of the cutscenes with the party, Vaan's still there, which is more than can be said of any other character. He is the only character that is always in the party, too.

Also, I know this isn't official, but: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Vaan

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LeonhartFour
07/08/11 1:08:00 PM
#22:


There are games in the series where the main character isn't the central focus of the epilogue.

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ZFS
07/08/11 1:09:00 PM
#23:


FFVI has Terra in one half, Celes in the second - though I think Terra is the most important one the whole way through. These main character arguments are usually pretty silly, but I've never heard one that says the one you control is the lead. If you focus purely on the story, separate of the gameplay, who's the main character of FFXII? Vaan or Ashe?

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Phase
07/08/11 1:10:00 PM
#24:


There's an exceedingly weak argument that Milanor is the main character of Yggdra Union (namely, there's no other particular reason he can't be defeated in any battlefield despite the fact you can lose anyone else but Yggdra who DOES have a good reason she can't die and he's the character that gets followed), but you could remove him with no consequences story-wise so long as you could convince Kylier to continually bail you out for some other reason.

From a practical perspective, however, Milanor's completely indispensible because he kicks more ass than anyone else on your team for half the game.

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TimJab
07/08/11 1:11:00 PM
#25:


From: LeonhartFour | #022
There are games in the series where the main character isn't the central focus of the epilogue.


Red XIII is the main character of FFVII IMO.

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KingButz
07/08/11 1:13:00 PM
#26:


From: ZFS | #023
FFVI has Terra in one half, Celes in the second - though I think Terra is the most important one the whole way through. These main character arguments are usually pretty silly, but I've never heard one that says the one you control is the lead. If you focus purely on the story, separate of the gameplay, who's the main character of FFXII? Vaan or Ashe?


Perhaps I should have titled the topic using "player character" instead of "main character" as obviously the main character cannot be irrelevant to the story or he wouldn't be the main character.

In any case, I wasn't intending this topic to be arguing who is the main character of FFXII

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OmarsComin
07/08/11 1:16:00 PM
#27:


Zell should've been the main character of FF8 TBQH, just sayin

If Terra is the main character of any part of FF6, it's kind of weak. She has plot relevance but she spends most of that plot being confused or not doing much. I'm not sure there is a main character in the first half of FF6. Celes probably is for the second half, but even there after you load up on characters not really.
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Panthera
07/08/11 1:20:00 PM
#28:


Vaan is clearly the main character of the game. If you want to get all awkwardly technical and **** you could make an argument for him not being the main character of the story, but that's a separate matter and still fairly dumb.

Anyway, Ryu from Street Fighter (after the original at least). You've got this plot about some crime lord who dresses like a flamboyant Nazi trying to clone stuff and fighting operatives of various governments, soul switching and all that other crap, and then there's a dude who wants to punch stuff harder that everyone knows because he keeps entering their tournaments and punching them.

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OmarsComin
07/08/11 1:22:00 PM
#29:


fighting game stories LOL
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Lopen
07/08/11 1:40:00 PM
#30:


From: ZFS | #023
FFVI has Terra in one half, Celes in the second - though I think Terra is the most important one the whole way through. These main character arguments are usually pretty silly, but I've never heard one that says the one you control is the lead. If you focus purely on the story, separate of the gameplay, who's the main character of FFXII? Vaan or Ashe?


This post amuses me because if you're going purely by overall story relevance Edgar is actually the main character of FFVI.

In fact Terra and Celes only get brought up because they're the first character you control in the two halves. Well, Terra I can see an argument for her being the most story relevant in the first half, but I wouldn't really say she's relevant in the way a main is usually relevant. She's a driving force behind the plot, sure, but she's more like a piece of the plot than a character.

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Panthera
07/08/11 1:42:00 PM
#31:


From: LeonhartFour | #030
Hey, and guess who that flamboyant Nazi who wants to clone stuff wants to find more than anyone else in the world because he's a great fighter with amazing potential. And his right hand man wants revenge on him because he humiliated him. And his master's brother killed his master and is trying to pursue Ryu to give him in to the Killing Intent.

Let's not try to act like Ryu doesn't have a major role in the SF universe.

Well, I guess you can if you never played the Alpha games, but those are the most story heavy games in the series, so yeah.


I'm not denying that Ryu doesn't have a role in the plot, because that's silly. My point is that his role is largely incidental. He wants to punch stuff. Sagat got pissed at being punched. Bison had a plot going and realized that Ryu was the strongest candidate he could find for it. And then Akuma is there because they felt like Ryu needed a story that is focused on him entirely. His motives and interests have little to do with the plot beyond making him show up to the tournaments where other people try to take advantage of his strength. I think he's relevant to the plot, but this is a comparison, and I think he's less relevant than Vaan.

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LeonhartFour
07/08/11 1:42:00 PM
#32:


From: Panthera | #028
Anyway, Ryu from Street Fighter (after the original at least). You've got this plot about some crime lord who dresses like a flamboyant Nazi trying to clone stuff and fighting operatives of various governments, soul switching and all that other crap, and then there's a dude who wants to punch stuff harder that everyone knows because he keeps entering their tournaments and punching them.


Hey, and guess who that flamboyant Nazi who wants to clone stuff wants to find more than anyone else in the world because he's a great fighter with amazing potential. And his right hand man wants revenge on him because he humiliated him. And his master's brother killed his master and is trying to pursue Ryu to get him to give him in to the Killing Intent.

Let's not try to act like Ryu doesn't have a major role in the SF universe.

Well, I guess you can if you never played the Alpha games, but those are the most story heavy games in the series, so yeah.

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DeathChicken
07/08/11 1:43:00 PM
#33:


A better question, who is the main character of Silent Hill 4? Is it Henry, or Walter?

Almost everything in that game's story revolves around Walter. Henry just happens to stumble into it, in spite of being the playable character

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YetAnothrShadow
07/08/11 1:43:00 PM
#34:


To be honest. Frank West is pretty irrelevant to the story of DR1. Not to the point where Vaan or Apollo is but still.

All he does is f*** around killing zombies and getting into other people's business.

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LeonhartFour
07/08/11 1:45:00 PM
#35:


I guess it depends on how define "relevant." If you want to argue "relevant" in terms of Ryu not really driving the plot forward, sure. He just happens to be involved because he's a great fighter with amazing potential, and people around him recognize it. He doesn't actively pursue after Bison or Akuma, for the most part. They seek after him, and he basically fights them off.

But I don't think Ryu being "incidental" makes him less relevant than Vaan.

Because Vaan's basically in the same boat, except without actually being a major force in the story.

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YetAnothrShadow
07/08/11 1:46:00 PM
#36:


Panthera posted...
Vaan is clearly the main character of the game. If you want to get all awkwardly technical and **** you could make an argument for him not being the main character of the story, but that's a separate matter and still fairly dumb.


You do realize Basch was meant to be the playable character right? And Vaan was only made up last minute cause Basch is too manly for the Japanese market.

Ashe, Basch, and even Balthier are most important to the story than Vaan is.

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Panthera
07/08/11 1:48:00 PM
#37:


From: LeonhartFour | #035
I guess it depends on how define "relevant." If you want to argue "relevant" in terms of Ryu not really driving the plot forward, sure. He just happens to be involved because he's a great fighter with amazing potential, and people around him recognize it. He doesn't actively pursue after Bison or Akuma, for the most part. They seek after him, and he basically fights them off.

But I don't think Ryu being "incidental" makes him less relevant than Vaan.

Because Vaan's basically in the same boat, except without actually being a major force in the story.


I'm defining it as some combination of taking action to drive the plot, responding actively to the events of the plot, having a motivation that connects to the plot, and having some sort of connection to the themes/subject matter at hand. It's pretty nebulous, yes, but I think it makes sense if you think about it (or maybe it makes sense as long as you don't think about it, one or the other). Ryu is pretty much doing his own thing with no connection to the main plot until it drops on his lap, and once he's pushed it away, he goes back to doing his own thing again.

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Biolizard28
07/08/11 1:48:00 PM
#38:


Jake from Advance Wars Duel Strike.

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LeonhartFour
07/08/11 1:49:00 PM
#39:


From: Lopen | #031
This post amuses me because if you're going purely by overall story relevance Edgar is actually the main character of FFVI.


I don't get this argument and I never have.

Maybe I need to play FFVI again because I never really got that impression.

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ZFS
07/08/11 1:50:00 PM
#40:


Terra's no less of a character than everyone else. She's not a good character, but hey! I think the second half of the game is more ambiguous than the first, but she has that really awful story about LOVE that sticks out in my mind more than the others, so that may be it. It's definitely not a 'you control her first' thing, though. Edgar I wouldn't even consider. Kefka the real focus of that game, anyway!

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LeonhartFour
07/08/11 1:50:00 PM
#41:


From: Panthera | #038
having a motivation that connects to the plot


It's a plot about a fighting tournament.

how does Ryu's motivation not connected to the plot

Maybe if you're looking at the motivations behind the plot, sure

But the main plotline of the series is "Hey here's a fighting tournament"

And Ryu's like "Hey look it's a fighting tournament cool"

So it works.

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Panthera
07/08/11 1:50:00 PM
#42:


From: YetAnothrShadow | #036
You do realize Basch was meant to be the playable character right? And Vaan was only made up last minute cause Basch is too manly for the Japanese market.

Ashe, Basch, and even Balthier are most important to the story than Vaan is.


What was meant to be is 100% irrelevant compared to what actually is.

And Balthier especially is not as important to the plot, Basch is pretty much equal. Ashe is more important, but "important" doesn't necessarily mean "main character", especially in games, and Ashe is a worse character without Vaan's existence anyway.

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TheKoolAidShoto
07/08/11 1:50:00 PM
#43:


Just because you spend a lot of time with one character doesn't necessarily mean they re the protagonist. Like how the protagonist of Star Wars Episode 1 is actually Palpatine, not the good-looking Jedi heroes, or Natalie Portman, or Anakin Skywalker(the protagonist of the entire series, arguably).

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Panthera
07/08/11 1:53:00 PM
#44:


From: LeonhartFour | #041
It's a plot about a fighting tournament.

how does Ryu's motivation not connected to the plot

Maybe if you're looking at the motivations behind the plot, sure

But the main plotline of the series is "Hey here's a fighting tournament"

And Ryu's like "Hey look it's a fighting tournament cool"

So it works.


I am looking at the motivations behind the plot <_< The tournaments happen because the villainous plan of the day conveniently happens to involve finding strong people.

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Lopen
07/08/11 1:53:00 PM
#45:


Edgar's pretty much the driving force behind most things, though. A lot of that is because he has money and a castle, but said money and castle pretty much is the only reason the plot advances most of the time. He's also the one who's with the party the most on the whole when you weigh in both halves of the game.

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Anagram
07/08/11 1:53:00 PM
#46:


Terra is the main character of FF6.

Spoilers



- She's the first character you're introduced to (well, Biggs and Wedge are introduced at the same time)
- She shows up in the ending even if you don't recruit her
- Her backstory is intertwined with the how the Empire created magitech and the first half of the game revolves around her. It's either about her, trying to find and help her, or helping her locate the Espers, but it's all ultimately about her
- She's one of only three characters with a significant subplot that gets resolution (her search for love, the others being Locke and Celes' romance)
- She was chosen for Dissidia (yeah, yeah, but it's still worth mentioning)

She's certainly less important in the WoR, but if FF6 has a main character, it's her.

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Biolizard28
07/08/11 1:53:00 PM
#47:


Ryu's most relevant in the original game for obvious reasons and the Alpha series since the whole Akuma thing is really important, or more so than other games in the series.

SFII is all about Guile and Chun-Li.

SFIII is about Alex.

SFIV is about Guile, Chun-Li, Viper, Abel, and Juri.

In all of those games, Ryu is just there then Akuma shows up and does his "dark side" schtick and they fight.

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ZFS
07/08/11 1:55:00 PM
#48:


All three of those characters carry far more importance and relevance to FFXII's plot than Vaan, who is basically an afterthought to everything going on. If you removed him from the game, the player's interpretation of the story wouldn't change, nor would any of the events that occur.

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Lopen
07/08/11 1:55:00 PM
#49:


You know who else shows up in the ending 100% of the time?

Edgar

Because you have to recruit him.

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Panthera
07/08/11 1:56:00 PM
#50:


Keep in mind Leon that I'm not saying Ryu is irrelevant, I'm saying he's *less* relevant, and then remember who I am and that "less relevant than Vaan" from me does not mean "as relevant to the story as a Siberian tiger is to a penguin in Australia"

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