Current Events > US approves 1,800 2k-pound bombs to Israel as Rafah invasion looms

(+) Yeah! (+)

Saying something over and over again doesn't make it true. Why would Biden lose votes?

the "you have to earn muh vote" crowd was never voting against trump anyway

If I were in the US and an election were held where you vote against candidates rather than for them, I'd vote Trump, even if I only got one vote.

But that's not how elections work.

The alternative is Americans getting it through their fucking heads that you do not have to pick one of these two options.

You cannot justify voting for a genocide enabler when you could vote for someone who is not a genocide enabler. You may not necessarily support his actions there, but at the very least, if you vote for him you are at least saying you are okay with said actions (unless you are unaware of them, which you are not). Even if it's more just "willing to turn a blind eye to it", that's maybe okay (and even that's a very big maybe) for a politician who engages in some minor corruption; it's not okay for one who is supporting a fucking genocide.

among democrats 56% support israel in the conflict. most americans are not plugged into the actual details of what is going on and most voters are older and much more likely to support israel

With 44% not supporting the genocide Biden should do the right thing anyways. I think the 44% are more likely to not vote Biden during a genocide than the 56% with no Israel aid.

The vast majority of opinion poll show that Biden's handling of the conflict is impopular among Dems and Independent voters, and that there's a majority support for pushing for a ceasefire.

The Harvard/Harris poll is clearly the odd one out and its results don't seem to be reproducible by other major pollsters. Yet that's the one that keeps on being quoted on CE. It reeks of manipulative cherry picking.

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[Reuters/Ipsos] 68% of US respondents support a ceasefire:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/15/poll-us-israel-support-hamas-war

[Pew] 45% of Dems say Israel is going too far in its military operation:
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/12/08/americans-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/

[AP-NORC] 64% of Dems think US should negotiate a permanent ceasefire:
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-israeli-hamas-war-poll-9f9e9bd2ea595ece43f151d8722e47ad

[NYT/Siena] 75% of voters under 30 disapprove of Biden's handling of the crisis, 57% of entire population:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/19/us/politics/biden-israel-gaza-poll.html

[ISPU] Even among Republicans and Jews in the US support for a cease fire is higher than opposition:
[Data For Progress] + 61% of Dems, 57% of Independents support US calling for a cease fire:
https://bridge.georgetown.edu/research/u-s-polls-show-shifting-landscapes-on-gaza-ceasefire/

[YouGov/The Economist] 50% of Biden voters think Israel is committing genocide:
https://www.businessinsider.com/half-biden-voters-israel-genocide-palestinians-gaza-poll-2024-1?op=1&r=US&IR=T

[Gallup] 63% of Democrats, 67% of adults younger than 35, and 64% people of color disapprove of Israel's actions. 75% of Independents disapprove:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/545045/americans-back-israel-military-action-gaza.aspx

[AP-NORC] 63% of Dems say Israel has gone too far, 52% of Independents. 70% of Dems under 30 disapprove of Biden's handling:
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-poll-biden-war-gaza-4159b28d313c6c37abdb7f14162bcdd1

[YouGov/The Economist] 77% of Dems support a cease fire, 60% of Independents:
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/48002-americans-support-ceasefires-israel-hamas-russia-ukraine-wars

And the most recent one I can find:
[Gallup] Only 18% of Dems still approve of Israel's actions, 29% of Independents:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/27/world/middleeast/military-action-americans-gaza.html

you accuse me of cherrypicking while disingenuously summarizing what those polls actually show. in the majority of them democrats still support bidens handling of the conflict and still show that most americans support israel over palestine, just with caveats.

but if biden is seen as 'not supporting israel' in an election year it would be much worse for his chances than any other factor.

if he is seen as abandoning israel he risks losing huge swaths of his voting base and independent voters who he has to rely on.

Joe Biden does not support genocide but Donald Trump has actively participated in two different genocides already.

I hope history remembers Biden poorly for his role in the ethnic cleansing of Gaza.

Republicans coalescing around Trump is part of what has shrunk the Republican base. Theres no room for a diversity of ideas in the GOP anymore.

I was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt but I'll state my point more clearly this time: what you posted was blatant misinformation.

The Harvard/Harris poll is a right wing propaganda tool, spearheaded by a Trumper. The poll is known for its misleading questions and shoddy methodology. Its results are biased, contradictory and often cannot be reproduced by other polls.

Read more about it here: https://www.thecrimson.com/column/forging-harvards-future/article/2024/3/26/bodnick-/

There is no evidence for these claims whatsoever.

Those bombs are being used to kill children by the thousands. If you're going to claim that Biden absolutely has to send more of them in order to prevent a Trump reelection, you better come with iron clad proof. Without it, this is just falsely threatening Trump's fascism in order to shut down protests against the US's complicity in these atrocities.

When the alternative is Hitler in the White House, "yOu hAvE tO eArN mY vOtE" is an irresponsible position at best.

every single united states president in recent history has supported israel and every single major candidate supported them as recently as the last presidential election. congress widely supports israel on both sides of the aisle

and americans (as evidenced by your own provided polls) support israel in huge numbers.

you are trying to prescribe claims i didn't make in a weird appeal to emotion while ignoring the political realities

i suspect you are one of the overprivledged that doesn't generally vote and tend to make demands on the internet while doing nothing to make the country or world a better place to exist.

Nuh uh Hornezz exclaimed as he waved around a poll.

Shut the fuck up, ROD.

You're the one who should shut up after saying stupid crap about how diverse the GOP used to be when their strategy has always been to appeal to white religious racists.

Hamas should surrender

Who's even still alive at this point? Prior to October 7th, they reportedly had like 40k members.

Shut the fuck up, ROD.

The billionaire leaders in charge, chilling in Qatar who aren't doing enough for their own citizens

So bombing Gaza is pointless?

The billionaire leaders in charge, chilling in Qatar who aren't doing enough for their own citizens

Hamas is still holding hostages, so it's in Israel's interest to get them back. I mean Hamas should negotiate giving up the hostages to stop losing so badly

Hamas is still holding hostages, so it's in Israel's interest to get them back. I mean Hamas should negotiate giving up the hostages to stop losing so badly

The base was enough honestly last time if not for a record turnout of Democrats. All it takes is a few states not going that way and for the enthusiasm to not be nearly as high as it was in 2020 (which with the economy, general apathy, and the Israel support) it is far more possible than it should be and I'd argue probable at this point. All Republicans are going to coalesce under Trump. If even 5% of the voters don't show up for Biden it's probably done.

Who's even still alive at this point? Prior to October 7th, they reportedly had like 40k members.

The whole "it's always been this way, therefore it should always stay this way" is a weirdly conservative argument against progressive change that doesn't hold any real value at all. I'm sure people were saying the same about women's voting rights or during the Civil Rights era. It was a worthless argument then, it's a worthless argument now. Just a circular reasoning to defend the status quo for the sake of it.

Besides, there actually is precedent in US history for sanctioning Israel. Both Reagan and Bush Sr. did it. Hell, Canada has traditionally stood by the USA's side on Israel but they suspended arms sales anyway a few weeks ago.

Repeating it doesn't make it true. It's bizarre how comfortably you are just gaslighting ITT.

From the Gallup poll published this week:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/9e566719.png
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/e75c8b48.png

You made this claim:
"if he is seen as abandoning israel he risks losing huge swaths of his voting base and independent voters who he has to rely on"

That is a direct quote. You have not proven this whatsoever. Because it's a lie.

You posted a crappy right-wing propaganda poll and instead of acknowledging that, you're doubling down and throwing out petty insults.

How are you making the world a better place by deliberately spreading misinformation on the internet to defend your favorite politician and his complicity in war crimes?

every single united states president in recent history has supported israel and every single major candidate supported them as recently as the last presidential election.

Previous US presidents have been able to be an ally to Israel while also not giving them a free pass to level the whole of Palestine

Previous US presidents have been able to be an ally to Israel while also not giving them a free pass to level the whole of Palestine. Reagan suspended aircraft transfers, aid and military assistance to Israel until they got out of Lebanon, and even told the Israeli PM their actions looked like a holocaust. Previous US presidents have allowed scores of UNSC resolutions against Israel to pass.

The idea that Biden and Trump are in line with a running presidential consensus on how to handle Israel is ahistorical.

That's not true at all. Israel has been leveling high rises in Gaza for decades.

My post is very obviously referencing the scope and scale of the destruction Israel has wrought since October.

reagan was at the very beginning of the 'moral majority' type evangelicals who have given israel much more power in lobbying and generally among american consciousness. there is no comparison to the attitudes of americans in the 80's to now. the fact that even the majority of progressives in the federal government generally support israel should tell you about the current reality.

we don't have to always blindly support israel, and this conflict may be the start of the american public turning against that blind loyalty, but we are still a long way from that and no candidate in '24 that comes out against supporting israel in any public fashion will win a general election.