Board 8 > Johnbobb ranks user-nominated Villain Songs: Requiem - The Ranking

(+) Yeah! (+)

hombad46 posted...

Whoops!

??

Johnbobb posted...

??

You used the same song title twice in a row

hombad46 posted...

You used the same song title twice in a row

oh whoops lol

I haven't watched HMB, I really need to catch up on Starkid's shows eventually.

Raka_Putra posted...

I haven't watched HMB, I really need to catch up on Starkid's shows eventually.

The more recent horror-themed trilogy has been great, although unfortunately most of the older cast isn't still involved

Yeah I watched The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals and it was good fun. Haven't watched the rest...

Johnbobb posted...

the chorus of "we're Marley and Marley / oooOOoOooooOooh" just kinda felt silly to me

It is silly, but that makes it more memorable than any lyrics they could have put there. My friends & I still quote it pretty often.

Johnbobb posted...

I've mentioned before I'm a huge Starkid fan

didn't know this!

Johnbobb posted...

HMB is not their best work

Have to disagree, it might be my favorite of theirs, thanks in no small part to Chris Allen's Alfred. The music is also great and Joe Walker crushes it as the lead.

Johnbobb posted...

Mr. Freeze saying "I've got ice in my veins," and then just walking on

yes, always cracks me up

jcgamer107 posted...

Have to disagree, it might be my favorite of theirs, thanks in no small part to Chris Allen's Alfred. The music is also great and Joe Walker crushes it as the lead.

There are definitely aspects of it I really liked. Joe Walker's Batman is generally great, and I think that was the first musical they did Starring Jeff Blim, and his candy- themed Joker knockoff was a blast (I never understood why they did all the other villains mostly normal but had him candy themed though)

I think in general it's a lot better for it's comedy than its music (though I did enjoy To Be A Man and The American Way)

Oh yeah the parade of candy puns was great. Joker's too sacred, I guess ?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/37980902.jpg

55. Biggering
Source: The Lorax
Villain: The Once-ler
Nominator: Place (2 left)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpyuolKoeAY

Villainy: 7
Characterization: 4
Melody: 5
Total: 16/30

"I must keep biggering / Im figgering on biggering / Though biggering is triggering / More biggering / I wont stop biggering / Im figgering on biggering / And biggering is triggering more biggering"

Look, I don't know why people felt the need to nominate from The Lorax last contest, and I really don't see the need for MORE of it, but here we are. And honestly I can't complain too much. I mean, I can, and I will, but this song is so so much better than How Bad Can I Be? In fact, it would probably be a solid 7/10 if its chorus wasn't so absolutely stupid. Otherwise it's pretty great, with guitar solos and a rising background chorus and a compelling back and forth between the villain and hero (the hero being the angry one in this song, which is refreshing.

Again, "greed" as a character explanation only goes so far. You learn about all there is to learn about Onceler in this song, but that's only because the Onceler is a pretty nothing character to begin with. He started small, started to get rich, became greedy. It's his whole thing, although he does get some points over some of the lower ranked greed-driven characters, because he addresses directly the lengths he'll go to for greed. "And the PR people lying, And the lawyers all denying, Who cares if some things are dying?"

dude sounds like he's a whisper away from dropping a hard R

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/349cbe47.jpg

54. Remember
Source: Danny Phantom
Villain: Ember McLain
Nominator: Inviso (1 left)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBMOc24_aIw

Villainy: 1
Characterization: 5
Melody: 10
Total: 16/30

"Your heart, your heart has rendered / Your loss, now bear the shame / Like dead trees, in cold December / Nothing but ashes remain"

We have our first 10! And man, it hurts to drop this one in the bottom half. Brief moment about me, Danny Phantom was my favorite show growing up. It was that and Yu-Gi-Oh! cleanly at the top. And hearing this song belted out for the first time as a kid was like learning what music actually was for the first time. I'm exaggerating, but only slightly, because Remember is an incredible song, and the one I've listened to more than any other on this list by far. Like this is a Running Up That Hill quality song. It's up What's Up? by 4 Non Blondes quality song. It absolutely didn't belong in a kids animated show about ghost teenagers on Nickelodeon, but they saw fit to bless us with it and we're better people for it.

That being said, the only thing that makes this a villain song is the fact that a villain is singing it. Ember might have had bad intentions, but not a word of that comes across in the lyrics. What does come across? A tragic story about a young girl who longed for someone who didn't follow through, and as a best case interpretation, after being rejected she burned the remnants of the relationship and left the person missing their chance with her. At worst, she died in a fire before the person could return her affections, and given that she's the ghost of a teenager who's hair is permanently fire, I'm guessing the latter is more likely. You learn a lot about her story here, but admittedly not all that much about her.

FFDragon posted...

dude sounds like he's a whisper away from dropping a hard R

it'd be fitting for the character tbh

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/67a03732.jpg

53. Up the Wolves
Source: The Mountain Goats
Villain: The Narrator
Nominator: jcgamer110 (2 left)

https://youtu.be/4VxY0ZoR6SI

Villainy: 1
Characterization: 10
Melody: 6
Total: 17/30

"I'm gonna bribe the officials / I'm gonna kill all the judges / It's going to take you people years to recover from all of the damage"

And just like that, we have our second 10! Ya know, I got really excited to listen to more Mountain Goats after Werewolf Gimmick placed #8 in the last contest, but then I listened to the rest of Beat the Champ and it put me to sleep. Overall I think The Mountain Goats are fine; usually more impressive lyrically than musically but never bad. This song kinda fits that, being an enjoyable listen and a fairly simple track with some powerful lyrics.

It's also not a villain song. Which is weird, given that it directly says things like "I'm gonna kill all the judges." Unlike many of the other villain songs here, in which when someone says "I'm gonna kill them," it's clear they actually mean it, this one absolutely feels more like venting frustration and sadness. Unless you want to take the song as literally about Romulus and Remus (historical metaphorical allusions as a plot device within the song definitely gets it bonus points in characterization btw) the song really is about someone suffering from abuse, and all the pain and frustration associated with it and feeling like there's no way out through any safe or viable route. It's extremely sad to the point that I can't justify considering it legitimately villainous. But I could also be interpreting this all wrong and it could be alluding to an actual bloodbath, but that's where I'm at.

The Sunset Tree is a goated album

Snake5555555555 posted...

The Sunset Tree is a goated album

^^^

I also highly recommend seeing them live if possible, if you need a spiritual cleansing

Johnbobb posted...

It's also not a villain song. Which is weird, given that it directly says things like "I'm gonna kill all the judges." Unlike many of the other villain songs here, in which when someone says "I'm gonna kill them," it's clear they actually mean it, this one absolutely feels more like venting frustration and sadness. Unless you want to take the song as literally about Romulus and Remus (historical metaphorical allusions as a plot device within the song definitely gets it bonus points in characterization btw) the song really is about someone suffering from abuse, and all the pain and frustration associated with it and feeling like there's no way out through any safe or viable route. It's extremely sad to the point that I can't justify considering it legitimately villainous. But I could also be interpreting this all wrong and it could be alluding to an actual bloodbath, but that's where I'm at.

HMmmmm - I guess I took it more literally, did not expect it to get a villain score of 1. To me it kind of feels like a villain's origin story; a way to see their point of view and how their actions could even seem justified. But I like this take.

Oh damn the 10's coming already

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52. Open Up Your Eyes
Source: My Little Pony: The Movie
Villain: Tempest Shadow (Fizzlepop Berrytwist)
Nominator: redrocket (2 left)

https://youtu.be/mZvSriNSvUk

Villainy: 3
Characterization: 6
Melody: 8
Total: 17/30

"But then there comes a moment, a simple truth that you must face / If you depend on others, you'll never find your place"

I'll be completely honest, when I saw that three different MLP songs were nominated, I had to roll my eyes a bit, and I fully didn't expect any to make it out of the bottom 20 or so, mostly for two reasons: 1. Most MLP stuff is designed for a very young audience and doesn't seem to get much more explicit beyond vaguely being mean and 2. I just don't care for MLP stuff at all.

That said, this song is a banger. I actually saw this movie due to one of the B8/Gauntlet ranking lists, and while I didn't like the movie, this song is way too good for its source material. Emily Blunt is a pretty fantastic singer, but she doesn't have to carry this solo either. The instrumentals here are as good as most Disney movies, and when they crescendo with the actual "Open up your eyes" lines, it is absolutely effective.

It's another one that feels more tragic than outright villainous, but at least here it is still very clearly a villain song. It recounts a history of having dreams crushed and ultimately succumbing to despair before embracing that the world isn't fair and surviving means dealing with that and moving forward anyway. Classic villain backstory stuff here, but again, they only thing outright villainous about it is that she refers to having the person she's singing to locked up.

Emily Blunt killed it there. Maximum effort.

I will say...Ember's song both characterizes her as the ghost of a girl who died in a fire, but her villainy is literally her trying to control people and feast upon their adoration to empower herself. "You will remember my name" is exactly how her power works.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/aae5abf2.jpg

51. Throw Away Your Mask
Source: Persona 5 Royal
Villain: Takuto Maruki
Nominator: hombad46 (3 left)

https://youtu.be/WzDTqGfyFB0

Villainy: 2
Characterization: 8
Melody: 7
Total: 17/30

"You won't need to strive for greatness / Believe in me that you don't need to suffer from anything no more"

Sorry hombad, almost cracked the top 50 unscathed, but you did correctly predict your lowest ranker.

hombad46 posted...

Johnbobb posted...
I had 2/10 largely marked as my "misguided rather than villainous" category

This is where I expect Throw Away Your Mask to be tbh

Yeah, you nailed that. Usually (not in all cases, but in general) I think of a 2 as someone facing a moral dilemma and leaning toward the "dark side." Here, Takuto is beginning to push back against the Phantom Thieves and is actively sad to have to do so. He wants to take away people's ability to feel sorrow via the Phantom Thieves' method of mental manipulation. It's with good intentions, for sure, and could honestly be argued to be along the same morally grey lines the protagonists already act on, but it leans just a little to the darker side of the grey zone.

It's excellent characterization though, as even without having played P5R (I played through Persona 5 and I'm not about to put another 120 hours into the same game with bonus stuff) I can get a pretty clear idea of Takuto, what he's doing, why he's doing it, the relationship he has with the protagonists, and all without him actually singing a word of it.

That being said, this song was actually a little lower for me than most of Persona 5's music. I mean, that's a high bar, as P5 has a pretty amazing soundtrack, and even its worst songs probably don't get below a 4 or 5.

Blaziken posted...

I will say...Ember's song both characterizes her as the ghost of a girl who died in a fire, but her villainy is literally her trying to control people and feast upon their adoration to empower herself. "You will remember my name" is exactly how her power works.

That's true! The only issue is that, while we know she empowers herself through her music and forced adoration in the show, I don't think any of that comes through in the song itself. I always try to include context for things like understanding the meaning of the lyrics, but I think the idea of wanting to be remembered after you're gone is pretty clear with or without the literal ghost powers. It's definitely case of her actions being villainous but the song itself not so much.

Darn, so close. But yeah the characterization was the main reason I nominated Throw Away Your Mask despite the inevitably low villainy score

And how's everyone doing at the halfway point?

Bane_of_Despair (4/4)
FFDragon (4/4)

TheArkOfTurus (3/3)
MarkS2222222222 (3/4)
Pirateking2000 (3/4)
Raka_Putra (3/4)
hombad46 (3/4)

azuarc (2/2)
Bitto (2/4)
Fluttershy_Pony (2/4)
Great_Paul (2/4)
Snake55555555 (2/4)
jcgamer107 (2/4)
paulg235 (2/4)
redrocket (2/4)

SceptileSolar (1/2)
Chaeix (1/3)
CoolCly (1/3)
Jesse_Custer (1/3)
Murphiroth (1/3)
Dancedreamer (1/4)
Inviso (1/4)
Place (1/4)
ScareChan (1/4)
wallmasterz (1/4)

Evilorexdeath (Eliminated)
GavsEvans123 (Eliminated)
PrinceKaro (Eliminated)

oh hey cool

You nailed it with Monsoon being really nihilistic, he's just kind of more of an asshole than the song fully gets across.

Kinda shocked Farewell II Flesh is still in, the Villainy and Characterization must be carrying it hard because I know most wouldn't give it a high Melody score lol

I think I have 2 left?

Bane_Of_Despair posted...

Kinda shocked Farewell II Flesh is still in, the Villainy and Characterization must be carrying it hard because I know most wouldn't give it a high Melody score lol

One of the best INK songs

I thought it was a good choice to pick yea! There's a few other INK songs I considered but I kept going back to FIIF for the best choice given the circumstances

I considered nominating The Greatest Story Ever Told for this at first

Dancedreamer posted...

I think I have 2 left?

whoops, you're right

I knew Shia LeBeouf would do well, and suspected The Rake's Song would, but I'm pleasantly surprised to see Zero is still around.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/e42321e8.jpg

50. Raphael's Final Act
Source: Baldur's Gate III
Villain: Raphael
Nominator: FFDragon (3 left)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMo7ugWudCA

Villainy: 6
Characterization: 5
Melody: 6
Total: 17/30

"No more dals, it's over / The final act, your doom / No more grac, it's over / This House of Hope, your tomb"

Congrats to Bane for being the last user left with a perfect 4/4 still in.

Raphael's Final Act is primarly cool for the fact that it exists. It's very dramatic and over the top, and the idea of a final boss just aggressively singing at you during the fight is the kind of personal touch most game developers wouldn't go for. The villainy here is tricky. The chorus says things like "all mortal lives, expire / Souls go to their dooms" which sound villainous for sure, only there not really threats. That's just what happens, and Raphael's a demon so he's kind of inherently an authority on the subject. It's more about belittling the protagonists while trying to defeat them than it is actively wishing for all of humanity to suffer.

The song doesn't really tell you that much about Raphael, aside from the basics that come with the territory of being a demon. Hell, deals, general doom. He does in exchange tell you more about the protagonists refusing his deal and caught trying to betray him, so it evens out. The song is solid enough. Raphael himself is mostly just kinda talking over the music rather than singing, but at least he does so with rhythm and panache, and the angelic church chorus backing it all really gives it the extra touch to help make it memorable.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/96ef8961.jpg

49. Agatha All Along
Source: WandaVision
Villain: Agatha Harkness
Nominator: Dancedreamer (Eliminated)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8u8md-NiHM

Villainy: 6
Characterization: 4
Melody: 7
Total: 17/30

"It's too late to fix anything / Now that everything has gone wrong"

This one was a struggle not to let personal bias influence too much (personal bias is always going to influence melody, as it's literally "how much I like the song," but I try to be objective-ish with the other categories when possible). WandaVision was one of the most exciting and inventive TV events of recent years. I can't think of any MCU TV project since that has been nearly as hot of a weekly talking point as WandaVision was when it was premiering, and for good reason. It broke all the structures and formulas of the rest of the MCU's projects, which were notably starting to feel a little stale to begin with. So when Agatha All Along premiered, it was perhaps one of the only viral villain songs I can remember (at least until This Is the Thanks I Get, which was viral for bad reasons).

I really want more of it, but it makes sense that it's as short as it is; it absolutely manages to capture that feeling of an old sitcom theme song, while still being insanely catchy and surprising. It's hard to really bump it past here in any other category though. Killing Sparky is absolutely villainous and is almost singlehandedly the reason she even made it this high with the otherwise vague "messing up everything." It also doesn't tell you much about Agatha, beyond the fact that 1. she's evil 2. she's sneaky and behind the scenes of all of the antics that have happened and 3. she killed a fucking dog.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/7471ab10.jpg

48. Christian Bale is at Your Party
Source: Rob Cantor
Villain: Christian Bale
Nominator: jcgamer107 (1 left)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8oIDvCl6lA

Villainy: 3
Characterization: 6
Melody: 8
Total: 17/30

"Now he's stabbing at your wife (What don't you f**king understand?!) / With a carrot for a knife (Give me a f**king answer!)"

Man, Actual Cannibal Shia LaBeaouf felt like it was largely in good fun, but this song gives me just the slightest feeling Cantor legitimately doesn't like Christian Bale. I mean, that terribly endowed line felt personal.

I hate how unbelievably catchy this song is. Bale's "what don't you fucking understand" rant is already pretty iconic on its own, but using his lines to end each stanza is musical comedy genius. The lyrics are complete nonsense, but that only adds to the spirit of the song.

The song tells you quite a bit about Christian Bale. He's rude, antisocial, uncomfortably flirtatious, unhinged, aggressive and... has the ability to vanish into sand? There wasn't much villainous there; the worst things he does are stabbing someone with a carrot (which I can't assume is actually doing much, although he at least intends it to) and flashing everyone as he runs down the street.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/66cf4783.jpg

47. no body, no crime
Source: Taylor Swift ft. HAIM
Villain: The Husband
Nominator: Bane_of_Despair (3 left)

https://youtu.be/IEPomqor2A8

Villainy: 7
Characterization: 6
Melody: 5
Total: 18/30

"Good thing Este's sister's gonna swear she was with me (She was with me, dude) / Good thing his mistress took out a big life insurance policy"

And the last perfect score finally falls! (technically Ark and azuarc still haven't dropped one but they had <4 nominations).

So this was nominated with The Husband as the villain, although realistically, half the song is about him being killed in revenge. Did he deserve it? Well, yeah. I debated knocking the villain score down a bit because the whole point of the song is that it's "ambiguous" but I think the final "He did it" just before the bridge kinda cements that this dude absolutely did kill his wife.

I'm always a little worried when a song has an unnamed villain; there are absolutely exceptions where unnamed characters still get fully developed (we'll see some later), but usually, they tend to be inherently a little more vauge about their characterization. NBNC does a pretty solid job avoiding that trap though, giving you just as much as you need to know about the husband (who got called out for cheating, and likely killed his wife, and in turn got killed by his wife's friend Taylor Swift).

Overall, it's a decent song. I'm not exactly a Swiftie but I do like HAIM and it was good to have them here, even if it's only really as quiet backing vocals. Pretty solid overall but I wasn't blown away.

Lol good write-up. I'm in the rare camp that prefers Christian Bale is At Your Party to Actual Cannibal Shia LaBeouf.

Johnbobb posted...

that terribly endowed line felt personal

I think it was more that it was something funny that rhymed with "crowd", but maybe lol

Don't not listen to Tally Hall

Oh got last perfect standing, sweet! Yea, NBNC is a bit more of a back and forth since they DO end up killing him but I figured it'd still work and I do really enjoy the song. I'd say I'm a Taylor Swift enjoyer but not a Swiftie, there's a bunch I'd take over her but I listen to most of her stuff at least once. NBNC is one of my favorite songs from her, I love the chorus' melody and progression. And throwing HAIM into the mix, even if more in the background, is really cool to see

Outrageously good storytelling on that song, and the rest of Evermore. Hope Taylor returns to this kind of style again sometime!

Up

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46. Labour
Source: Paris Paloma
Villain: Men who take women for granted
Nominator: Chaeix (eliminated)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvU4xWsN7-A

Villainy: 5
Characterization: 6
Melody: 7
Total: 18/30

"I know you're a smart man, and weaponise / The false incompetence, it's dominance under a guise."

I mentioned before that vague villains are inherently going to struggle a bit in the characterization department, but I think Labour makes up for that primarily by showing the perspective of the woman affected by the villain, here being the man who treats his girlfriend/wife like a servant, so that even though the "you" she's referring to is vague, the effects his actions have on her personally is still made clear. That wavers a bit in the bridge, where Paloma kind of goes back and forth between "me" and the less specific "her," making the POV a bit fuzzy.

Really great songwriting here though, and the mention of the protagonist's worries of her daughter, should she have one, inevitably falling intro the same trap should he have the chance to teach her to expect those behaviors really gives this song the extra boost it needs. Add in Paloma's extremely pleasant voice and the layering of the bridge and the chorus toward the end really cements this as a pretty great song.

Ah yea my sister showed me that song last year, very good!

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45. The Nowhere King
Source: Centaurworld
Villain: The Nowhere King
Nominator: Pirateking2000 (2 remaining)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSKqvHTngYs

Villainy: 8
Characterization: 5
Melody: 5
Total: 18/30

"Hush now, hide, all you little ones / Rush now, into the middle of nowhere / Singing and laughter will die"

I don't know much about Centaurworld aside from the promotional images Netflix put out back when it first was premiering, and this is absolutely not the vibe I got from it. I mean if anything, it looked like it had more of an Adventure Time vib-- ohhh, this is one of the shows that's goofy and colorful on the surface, and then has really dark undertones to shake things up, huh?

I mean, this is terrifying. Is it a song that I'd want to listen to regularly? Not really! But it's not bad at all, it's creepy in an absolutely effective way and sounds like a legitimate lullaby, but just ever so slightly off. It feels very similar to the classic "1-2 Freddy's coming for you" song from A Nightmare on Elm Street. Similarly to Freddy, it also seems to be about killing children, which is a pretty instant high ranking on the villainy score. The only thing keeping it from being a little higher is that it is a little vague about what exactly is happening. Is he just killing people? There's a hint of sadism in the "you will bring joy to the Nowhere King" line. Really doing a lot here with a fairly short song.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f1fab434.png

44. Stars
Source: Les Miserables
Villain: Javert
Nominator: Raka_Putra (2 remaining)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urxk4mveLCw

Villainy: 2
Characterization: 8
Melody: 8
Total: 18/30

"He knows his way in the dark / But mine is the way of the Lord / Those who follow the path of the righteous / Shall have their reward"

This is a really great comparison to last ranking's winner, Judge Claude Frollo and Hellfire. On the surface, they're similar characters, authority figures who take on villainous roles because of his faith. But that faith and belief in law's sanctity is what differentiates them. Frollo believes in faith and law, sure, but only to the point that it benefits him, and Hellfire is the song where he admits outright that he knows that the path he's on is ungodly, but his lust and hatred are more important to him than his faith. Stars is the exact opposite, where Javert establishes himself as a tragic figure rather than the monster of a man that Frollo is; he truly believes that the path he's on is correct and that his faith will lead him to doing the right thing. He's about as misguided as a villain can come, and the mention of wanting to see Valjean "safe behind bars" rather than dead or even defeated cements that.

Also goddamn can Philip Quast sing, I mean the vocal belting on that man. So good.

And then he kills himself because he can't reconcile his beliefs in justice and right/wrong with Valjeans actions.

Maniac64 posted...

And then he kills himself because he can't reconcile his beliefs in justice and right/wrong with Valjeans actions.

Well yeah

All the more reason it's more misguided than villainous!

Oh I totally agree. Javier is definitely an antagonist but not a villain imo.

At least in the play, haven't read the book.