Board 8 > What four US Presidents are on MOUNT RUSHMORE 2?

(+) Yeah! (+)

FDR
Obama
Eisenhower
LBJ

FFDragon posted...

again, teddy was put on 16 years after he left office

so even if we stuck to those rules, everyone up until W could qualify

I'm just saying that politics is a very polarizing topic and I personally am not comfortable with selecting someone whose term I lived through. I have no problem with other people nominating Reagan, Obama, etc.

FDR is obviously way ahead of everyone. LBJ was my next thought. I think Obama sorta gets on here but it's hard to make that argument so close to his term. I did think Madison next but Eddv makes some good points against him. I'll go with Eisenhower for 4th though until/unless Eddv explains how I'm wrong lol.

FDR
LBJ
Obama
Eisenhower

Eisenhower/Cleveland/Obama are relatively safe "country was prosperous and they didnt fuck it up" guys. Id vote Ike before the other 2 but hes not really exciting.

Id honestly hesitate more on Obama because Im not sure what the legacy of his decision to move to drone warfare is gonna be.

Eddv posted...

Id honestly hesitate more on Obama because Im not sure what the legacy of his decision to move to drone warfare is gonna be.

Yeah, my scorching hot take is that Biden honestly might, right now, be more deserving of that spot than Obama on accomplishments in ending the Afghanistan War (and even before that basically ending drone warfare by the US), restoring a sense of normalcy after Trump, being the most pro-labor President in decades, Inflation Reduction Act, etc. but I gave it to Obama there more because his presidency felt like a bigger touchstone culturally. Like that was undeniably a huge moment for the country. Plus his term is over and Biden is still in office.

Ah yeah Obama from the "he was the first black president and didnt suck so much he needs to be punished" perspective makes senss.

Especially if you view the story of america through the lens of it being the story of slavery and the outcomes of the formerly enslaved as a lot of people do, it was a BIG moment and it completely shattered the GOP and forced it to become something else which has been the bedrock of post 2008 politics.

Yeah theres a significance based argument here for sure.

True story I probably don't put Obama on Rushmore if he's not black (he did fine attempting to clean up W's mess and had a lot of charisma so is a good face for America but yeah, culturally it matters mostly) and don't vote JFK if he didn't get assassinated-- just think those two will be memorable forever because of those things and didn't have complete trainwrecks of runs as presidents so yeah.

Wilson yeah I dunno. Might be wrong there. Gut said he was the first president to make big strides in foreign policy stuff but yeah not a political scientist I'm sure he's not the best pick.

FDR
Ike
JFK
Reagan

Oops I missed yesterday.....looks like I would have been the only one to vote for Those Who Fight/the normal FFVII battle theme? That's surprising.

Lopen posted...

True story I probably don't put Obama on Rushmore if he's not black (he did fine attempting to clean up W's mess and had a lot of charisma so is a good face for America but yeah, culturally it matters mostly) and don't vote JFK if he didn't get assassinated-- just think those two will be memorable forever because of those things and didn't have complete trainwrecks of runs as presidents so yeah.

Wilson yeah I dunno. Might be wrong there. Gut said he was the first president to make big strides in foreign policy stuff but yeah not a political scientist I'm sure he's not the best pick.

I mean Teddy Roosevelt won the Nobel Peace Prize for helping to negotiate an end to the Russo-Japanese war and had the Great White Fleet tour the Pacific so he could show everyone the US meant fuckin business in the Pacific. The Spanish American War waa our big entrance to world affairs (which FINE was McKinley) was associated with Roosevelt and his rough riders and he was essentially the hero of the war. Also opened the Panama Canal to that end and you may recall he sent gunboats to japan to make them trade with us.

Wilson did make absolutely sure Germany lost WW1 but hes a major reason the peace was so fucked up so.

Well lets not forget, Obama did not inherit a period of prosperity, he inherited the biggest global recession of any of our lifetimes, and his policies, specifically his (relative) rejection of austerity, are what led to America recovering so quickly when much of the world didnt and still hasnt. If Obama hadnt been elected America would be in a much worse position.

FDR
Obama
JFK
Eisenhower

I have scant knowledge of non-Rushmore, pre-WWII presidents, so.......these seem like the best modern 4

Of course Obama is going on there because he's black. Mount Rushmore is purely about popularity/significance. It's not about being good at all.

FDR
LBJ
Grant
Ike

league of nations is also the project that got Wilson the nobel peace prize and is essentially the precursor to NATO. yes him, along with the other Western leaders, were responsible for WW2 afterwards. but he's also the president who dealt with the entirety of the first ever World War which was a much bigger deal conceptually as it had never happened before. i don't fault the WW1 leaders for lacking the foresight into WW2 and there were plenty of other points in history where people could have stopped Germany but didn't. makes no sense to blame one man for an entire war 20 years later.

probably his most long standing American accomplishment is making the federal reserve, aka, the creation of the central banking system in the US. people tried before, failed, he succeeded and it's still in place over a century later. and sure he may not have been the most progressive of the presidents (progressive for that time period that is) but he still did try to get rid of child labor even if it was still futile due to courts, still pushed for anti-trust, and still pushed to limit work hours and improve worker conditions. he just did all that with a world war throughout almost the entirety of his two terms looming on him before getting involved with it via combat instead of trade.

Leonhart4 posted...

Oh right, guess I should vote

FDR
LBJ
James Madison
James K. Polk

Change Polk to Obama

Polk was more of a joke vote but then Eddv made me feel bad about it

Madison
Obama
FDR
JFK

honestly not feeling this so hard, cuz I find myself wondering if another actual Rushmore would even be warranted. But also I'm tired, tipsy and achy right now.

In other news, the Xbox Rushmore fiasco was just brought up in a conversation of mine over the lack of memorable Xbox characters. May Forza Car live on in infamy.

FDR
LBJ
Grant
Arthur

foolm0r0n posted...

Of course Obama is going on there because he's black. Mount Rushmore is purely about popularity/significance. It's not about being good at all.

If we were going off significance, there'd be a lot more Reagans and Trumps in this topic

F that though

KamikazePotato posted...

If we were going off significance, there'd be a lot more Reagans and Trumps in this topic

F that though

James Buchanan was way more significant than either of those two. You have to be significant in a good way.

thanks for taking down Polk and Wilson, eddv

i might have stepped up to take down wilson if eddv didn't.

In addition to what Eddv said he has a large hand in why the maps in the middle east are so fucked up because he helped draw the lines. And of course the racism - has self-determination as one of his 14 points then tells other nations "well that obviously doesn't apply to you; not white enough"

FDR
JFK
Eisenhower
Obama

Reagan
Trump
Buchanan
Pierce

I feel like it's good to learn from your mistakes.

Yeah, Wilson's racist policies and ideas did so much damage that I think you can't include him on principle (same with someone like Andrew Jackson, who would otherwise merit inclusion as well)

I mean I get every president has problems and you have to figure out which ones you can live with

KamikazePotato posted...

If we were going off significance, there'd be a lot more Reagans and Trumps in this topic

F that though

I said Reagan. Don't really see why Trump would be on there though.

Eddv posted...

Then the last few years of his presidency were basically weekend at Bernies because he had a stroke and his wife secretly ran the country in his stead.

It's funny how common this used to be. Should try it again tbh.

Maybe that's why Biden was actually able to pull out of Afghanistan? Jill did it

FDR
truman
eisenhower
JFK

Polk
Buchanan
Hoover
Carter

Change Wilson to Arthur.

Fair points against Wilson. I give partial credit to League of Nations for kinda leading towards the idea of United Nations, but that's not really his claim to fame and he has so many factors against him that I'll take it.

Realistically, I should put Obama for significance perspective, but Arthur deserves another vote. I recently read a book about Garfield/Arthur administration and it just rules. Such a fascinating part of US history.

As a non-American:

FDR
Eisenhower
JFK
Obama

By the sounds of it Arthur should be on there though; establishing a system of government not wholly beholden to personal patronage is a huge step to creating trustworthy institutions.

Chester Arthur is one of the few presidents I actually like not because of what he accomplished (which is pretty minor in the grand scheme of things), but because he was willing to burn all of his capital in the political machine to do it, something I don't think any other president has ever really done

The only really bad thing he did was sign the Chinese Exclusion Act but there is no president who would not have done that so it barely registers as a blip on the radar of terrible presidential acts

FDR
JFK
Obama
Eisenhower

I like how he, AFAIK, didn't care about the patronage system at all when he was elected, but after the big cat kicked it, he picked up Garfield's torch and went ham to enshrine a legacy for him

NFUN posted...

I like how he, AFAIK, didn't care about the patronage system at all when he was elected, but after the big cat kicked it, he picked up Garfield's torch and went ham to enshrine a legacy for him

Arthur got his whole career made entirely through the patronage system and, when Garfield died and Arthur took over, the person who made Arthur's career was excited to basically puppetmaster the President. So it's doubly amazing that Arthur dismantled it.

Yeah Arthur was like the only one not in on the joke that he was supposed to be Vice President just as a nod of respect to his machine and that he was supposed to save patronage.

He took the vice presidency incredibly seriously and felt it was his duty to see through Garfields plans. And he just generally was solid

He might have run for reelection but frankly he knew he was dying so he just stepped aside.

Its my sizzling hot take that Garfield had he lived was uniquely suited to be an absolutely incredible president

Part of the reason Arthur is considered an unremarkable president now is because he made himself so unpopular among his allies that there was nobody to write a hagiography of him after he left office. His legacy was demonstrably impacted by the fact that he took the oath of the office seriously and in my eyes that's basically the coolest shit you can do as a president

FDR
Obama
JFK
Eisenhower

FDR
LBJ
Adams
Arthur

Bitto posted...

Madison
Wilson
FDR
LBJ

FDR is the only lock. Madison for being the remaining Founding Father, Wilson for WWI and League of Nations, LBJ for Civil Rights Act.

Trying to keep this relatively positive. I did think about this recently in terms of who had the biggest influence on the Presidency since Theodore and it wasvery negative.

In addition to changing Wilson to Arthur, Ill also change Madison to Adams. I just remembered the Election of 1800 and the peaceful transfer of power of two parties. Thats worthy enough.

FDR
LBJ
Arthur
Adams

Trump
Nixon
Jackson
Reagan

Eddv posted...

Its my sizzling hot take that Garfield had he lived was uniquely suited to be an absolutely incredible president

I don't think that's a hot take. I think that's actually a pretty common sentiment among people who are actually familiar with him.