Current Events > Apparently direction indicators in games is a problem now.

(+) Yeah! (+)

When did direction indicators become a problem with yall? Is this a nothing burger?

https://www.ign.com/articles/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-sparks-yellow-paint-debate-once-again

The article shows people bitching about color coded indicators to show you where you need to go.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/9280ab0f.jpg
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/7180f040.jpg

It's definitely a very ugly trend that could be done in a number of more aesthetically pleasing ways, and for some reason, traveling painters are more immersion breaking than ancient dungeons having lit lanterns. Ideally, you'd want to naturally guide the player through better design, but I'd otherwise rather just see something more gameplay-related, like having intractable objects flash. Making it a weird in-universe thing doesn't make it more immersive if it just looks silly.

I agree with them. It's dumb

Nemu posted...

It's definitely a very ugly trend that could be done in a number of more aesthetically pleasing ways, and for some reason, traveling painters are more immersion breaking than ancient dungeons having lit lanterns for some reason. Ideally, you'd want to naturally guide the player through better design, but I'd otherwise rather just see something more gameplay-related, like having intractable objects flash. Making it a weird in-universe thing doesn't make it more immersive if it just looks silly.

If they gave us a side quest about this dude running around painting everywhere he goes I'd be ok with it

I almost always want waypoints tbh, although this is a bit different/excessive.

Why not just design the environment to be conducive to going the right way like they used to do

NeonTentacles posted...

Why not just design the environment to he conducive to going the right way like they used to do

Yet another example of how bonkers amazing Diablo 2 is, and just the overall depth and care that was implemented.

I don't really mind stuff like that, but at least make it a more appealing color than yellow imo.

Paint on an obviously climbable ladder seems dumb.

But overall it's not a bad idea. There are better ways to depict it than just yellow paint, which looks unnatural. Like on cliffs and bluffs, use some of the naturally occurring red that might be present. Or if there are ledges that jut out and can be grabbed, really emphasize the shadows underneath them.

What confuses me is they had this sorted years ago

Just have the option to toggle it off.

I do get the complaint that it makes devs complacent in terms of directing with visual design, light sources etc

But I can't act like it bothers me.

I guess we're going to get several topics about this lol.

The issue isn't just that they're giving directional indicators. It's how they went about it. Some people like to be able to figure things out without giant yellow marks saying "go here." The complaints will die down if it turns out there's an option to turn that off

There are a lot better ways to of doing it. Maybe make the object slightly brighter than the background.

yeah this is treating gamers like they are dumb

Tbh the exploration in Final Fantasy games is absolutely trash so whatever helps get you into the next area is welcome.

I view it as the equivalent of "first world problems" in gaming.

It does hurt the immersion in the game, but at the same time unless exploration is a key element of the game you the player is going to want to know how to get to the next objective.

They can improve on the level design, but if everything else is good, I'm okay with short cuts like this.

My twitter feed has a lot of backlash against the anti yellow paint people and keep posting dev stories about dumb play testers. But like, the yellow paint is still ugly.

Breaking immersion because you think the player is too stupid to figure things out? Jeez, just call my mother a whore, why don't you.

Just use mods to remove it

Dakimakura posted...

Just use mods to remove it

People 100% will do that once it releases on PC lol

My opinion varies depending on what type of game it is.

If its a relatively linear game, then Im ok with more obvious direction markers.

If its meant to be more explorative, then they shouldnt have it

The weird thing to me is that it's always yellow paint. Not the color, but just the fact that it's paint.

In the Rebirth example they gave, that's a natural cliff side. Put some yellow moss on the edge of it instead, or have yellow flowers growing on the platform, or have it leaking sulfur (which is yellow) from a crack.

I get that homogeneity in the medium makes it more readily understandable, but still. Aesthetically, it feels... hackneyed?

I honestly don't give a shit and I'm constantly surprised at the amount of people who do.

The only thing that I'll complain about is the fact that it should be toggleable. If you can spend half a decade so that I can see every single one of Sephiroth's eyelashes, I'm sure you can also make a toggle option for this.

It reeks of laziness and it's just ugly. Especially in RPGs where a big part of their allure is getting immersed in a fantastical world and its story. When you run up to a wall with ugly bright yellow paint spattered on it to show handholds and climbable surface you are ripped right out of any form of immersion.

Developers should not be sacrificing any integrity of their games to cater to dumbass playtesters that most likely don't even play games or if you absolutely must do so, make it toggleable. Easy fix, everybody wins.

I just think it's kind of nasty and lazy the way it looks in RE4 Remake. Why not color the ENTIRE ladder yellow? Why not have the wooden box be, you know, all yellow wood? Why does it have to look like someone splashed it with yellow paint?

Tomb Raider 2013 is the first game I remember doing this. Maybe an assassin's creed did earlier but idk TR is the one in my brain

Ultimately its just ugly and takes away from the aesthetics. And for the FF7 example it just baffles me because i saw a vid of it and the minimap shows that its just a hallway, like who the hell is gonna miss that?

For ledges or something I can definitely understand, because it's often hard to see where you need to go in games with ledge-climbing. But you'd think they can find something less obnoxious and more reliable, like an arrow on the HUD or just more-believable markings.

I haven't been keeping up with the news regarding the new FF7, but isn't the game linear? Like I doubt people are going to be spending hours just to try to find what they are allowed to climb. They can also do things like green ledges are a no go because you can't climb on mosses, but ledges with no moss on it are okay or something like that.

Shadow of the Tomb Raider had the right idea on how to handle this, methinks. You could set the level of environmental handholding you felt you needed or even turn it off entirely both at the start of the game and throughout it in the options menu.

Having worked in technical support before I buy that there are people who need things spelled out for them. I don't see the harm though in having navigation markers be an option that you can turn off.

Because people are way stupider than you think. I recall reading an interview with a dev that said they needed to do that cause people wouldn't know what to do.

Prestoff posted...

I haven't been keeping up with the news regarding the new FF7, but isn't the game linear? Like I doubt people are going to be spending hours just to try to find what they are allowed to climb. They can also do things like green ledges are a no go because you can't climb on mosses, but ledges with no moss on it are okay or something like that.

It's wide-open linear where there's still tons to explore.

But it doesn't make sense in the demo since right now it's the Nibelheim flashback and is narrow linear.

majin_nemesis posted...

yeah this is treating gamers like they are dumb

You must be to new to gamers

Not a fan, but I dont hate it as much as navigational targets telling you exactly where to go all the time. Give me an area of interest and let me figure out how to find the place or person.

Kaldrenthebold posted...

Because people are way stupider than you think. I recall reading an interview with a dev that said they needed to do that cause people wouldn't know what to do.

The other thing is for a big budget game they can't just make it for people like those of us on this board who have been playing video games for decades. They also have to make it accessible to newer players who maybe need a little hand holding.

Yea it's distracting and hand holding. It does break immersion also but it's not a big deal to me.

The recent tombraider trilogy had the right idea giving you the option to turn it off completely. I'd also add removing the mini map and replacing it with a minimal compass or nothing at all.

I think options are best, because people don't all play games the same way. People give Ubisoft a lot of shit, but the last few AC games gave you a choice of whether to have explicit map markers or to just get clues in order to find things yourself, and the fact that you can choose is excellent game design IMO

VeggetaX posted...

You must be to new to gamers

they are not this dumb or dumb at all

majin_nemesis posted...

they are not this dumb or dumb at all

You are mistaken.

https://youtu.be/4OZqmWB0wXo?si=vJyuP-yQ2APH7zly

https://youtu.be/zbE6fqBuGkA?si=ARNg16gLGB_WxoWF

Sometimes a game makes it impossible to tell what is background and what is the character can interact with.

What's the line?

Starks posted...

Sometimes a game makes it impossible to tell what is background and what is the character can interact with.

What's the line?

Post 39 has a good opinion on it however an added feature to enable/disable things like this could mean taking more time to produce the game and you know how gamers can't wait to play a game

Starks posted...

Sometimes a game makes it impossible to tell what is background and what is the character can interact with.

What's the line?

Visual noise is a great indicator. In games with heavy amounts of detail it's harder to make things stand out, but preventing a high range of colors/having duller contrast in those areas may be one solution. Some games also just put glowing highlights as a UI element on interactible objects, which is another good solution.

I imagine these and the people who think easy mode shouldn't exist tend to have a lot of overlap.

Kaldrenthebold posted...

You are mistaken.

Some gamers are that stupid, but its not always stupidity. Often times its also people playing games on autopilot with next to no engagement

Smackems posted...

I agree with them. It's dumb

This.

Also, markers aren't an issue as long as they don't fucking barf on your UI like they do in Human Revolution

You have to have those so players don't get lost.