Current Events > Israel have killed 11,000 people in <40 days. Irish troubles deaths were 3532

(+) Yeah! (+)

Prismsblade posted...

Is it? Looks more like a one sided massacre to me.

It would not be that way if Israel's missile defense system wasn't state of the art.

Were_Wyrm posted...

Have you ever seen a non-brutal genocide?

Antinatalism movement?

ColonizedMind posted...

Crazy how antisemitism is just accepted again.

Holy fuck what a victim mentality. Tell me oh tell me whats the APPROPIATE response towards Israels war crimes? Should we just tell them to tone it down a little or to make less rockus so the people dont complain about civilian deaths around the world?

99.99% of the people are exclusively protesting the israel government. NOT religions or ethnicities.

Were_Wyrm posted...

Have you ever seen a non-brutal genocide?

Is that something we should be okay with?

Ronaldo posted...

It would not be that way if Israel's missile defense system wasn't state of the art.

Iron dome was installed in 2011. Very much alive and thriving up to that point.

okay.

Crazyman93 posted...

And under Protocol I of the Geneva conventions, so is hiding your military power among civilians.

Let's stop pretending this war or any other war has a moral high ground. The overall point of war is you kill as many of the other side as possible until the other side either stops existing or surrenders. War only determines who is left. Not who was right.

The only people trying to pretend there's a moral high ground here are the ones trying to pass off Israel intentionally murdering children as "unfortunate collateral damage"

ColonizedMind posted...

Crazy how antisemitism is just accepted again.

Crazy how the Israel government has been allowed to weaponize that claim against people who oppose ethnic cleansing.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Keep defending the IRA.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

...are you saying that Northern Ireland is not a part of UK?

Why is it part of the UK?

Because of the Anglo-Irish Treaty?

JacobyCrane posted...

Why is it part of the UK?

Because the people of Northern Ireland want to be part of it. If they want Irish unity, then vote in politicians to call a referendum.

Trelve posted...

Because the people of Northern Ireland want to be part of it. If they want Irish unity, then vote in politicians to call a referendum.

Ah right, awesome, very relevant in a topic relating to the Irish troubles that nOrThErN iRlElAnD iS pArT oF tHe UnItEd KiNgDoM oF gReAt BrItAiN aNd NoRtHeRn IrElAnD

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

Not just hiding. Apparently Hamas fighters wear civilian clothes in battle, which you can see in the videos that they recorded of themselves. Now theres no doubt that children have died and other civilians have died, but it does compromise the legitimacy of the total number of civilian deaths being claimed.

Theres no reason at all to get into that can of worms. Judaism and Islam both agree theologically in the value a single human life. So getting into the shouting match of whether its 1000 people or 10,000 people, every civilian casualty lost is an atrocity. We already know that its impossible to verify all of the information being given to us in the conflict.

Because for all the toxicity here, the one thing that seems to be apparent is a concern for all of the victims of the violence. The rage, the constant shaming and blaming and all of that, Is that the violence needs to end.

So nitpicking details like questioning the legitimacy of the death count gets you nowhere. The death toll is and has been disproportionate the entire time.

Oh look a chud that had a meltdown and blocked me is defending Israeli crimes that began long before the Hamas attack with "Well that's war! Maybe Hamas shouldn't hide in populated areas!"

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Theres no reason at all to get into that can of worms. Judaism and Islam both agree theologically in the value a single human life. So getting into the shouting match of whether its 1000 people or 10,000 people, every civilian casualty lost is an atrocity. We already know that its impossible to verify all of the information being given to us in the conflict.

Sure, I dont disagree. Even one death can be traumatic for the victim obviously and their loved ones. That said, theres a numbers game being played by some very vocal persons, not just on CE, and it comes across as disingenuous and questionable to begin with, and theres no point in pretending we dont see it.

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

Sure, I dont disagree. Even one death can be traumatic for the victim obviously and their loved ones. That said, theres a numbers game being played by some very vocal persons, not just on CE, and it comes across as disingenuous and questionable to begin with, and theres no point in pretending we dont see it.

But are there thousands of them? Because Israel claims they have killed over 10,000 terrorists. They're only considered civilians if they survive their injuries.

I'm curious what some of you think is an appropriate response to the October attacks by Israel. Take it on the chin and sit back and wait for the next one?

Solid_Snake07 posted...

I'm curious what some of you think is an appropriate response to the October attacks by Israel. Take it on the chin and sit back and wait for the next one?

Idk probably something short of killing thousands of civilians

DarthAragorn posted...

Idk

Ah, the most expected option from such enlightened users.

Solid_Snake07 posted...

I'm curious what some of you think is an appropriate response to the October attacks by Israel. Take it on the chin and sit back and wait for the next one?

The second sentence of your post really irks me. As if you were saying the Israeli government and IDF has done nothing to perpetuate this attack and the growth of Hamas.

Anyway, the answer is too complex to be found on CE. You'll only find yourself in an argument with people here that likely care about being perceived as right more than the situation at hand.

People, Israel's actions here have been so disproportionate and the situation before hand was so messed up that days after experiencing their 9/11, most of the world was already shocked and appalled by their response. To the point where even leaders that support them to the hilt are calling for a ceasefire and increased humanitarian aid. Even that nerd Trudeau.

Solid_Snake07 posted...

I'm curious what some of you think is an appropriate response to the October attacks by Israel. Take it on the chin and sit back and wait for the next one?

Maybe not use it as an excuse to triple your human rights abuses that you were performing before October.

How many dead civilians do you think is an appropriate number before people are allowed to question Israel's "self-defense"? Are they close to hitting your number or are they thousands away?

Israel armed the apartheid South Africa government. That shows you how much they care about innocent people .

cjsdowg posted...

Israel armed the apartheid South Africa government. That shows you how much they care about innocent people .

Remind me, how many terrorist groups and rebel factions that were armed by america?

cjsdowg posted...

Israel armed the apartheid South Africa government. That shows you how much they care about innocent people .

Including assisting their nuclear program. (South Africa have since been confirmed to have fully denuclearized.)

Kimbos_Egg posted...

Remind me, how many terrorist groups and rebel factions that were armed by america?

Yeah, America sucks big time.

The goal should not be to match that, but to be good, imo

Kimbos_Egg posted...

Remind me, how many terrorist groups and rebel factions that were armed by america?

I complain about American all the time. Fuck American doesn't care about most of the people who live here.

cjsdowg posted...

I complain about American all the time. Fuck American doesn't care about most of the people who live here.

your government is a reflection of your society and people. Its greedy and uncaring because the majority of you are.

Or do you really convince yourself that you're selves that you're "one of good people" because of acts of "charity" that cost you little to nothing? A few nice words on the internet?
You gas light yourselves into believing that deep down most people are "good" with idiotic Disney movies, childish fairy tales, and strawman villains in movies and games that societal problems are the fault of individuals, and not the whole.

Weird angle

Kimbos_Egg posted...

Ah, the most expected option from such enlightened users.

@Kimbos_Egg Are you going to respond to post 47

Kimbos_Egg posted...

your government is a reflection of your society and people. Its greedy and uncaring because the majority of you are.

Or do you really convince yourself that you're selves that you're "one of good people" because of acts of "charity" that cost you little to nothing? A few nice words on the internet?
You gas light yourselves into believing that deep down most people are "good" with idiotic Disney movies, childish fairy tales, and strawman villains in movies and games that societal problems are the fault of individuals, and not the whole.

Yo, we broke the troll. Were you from?

Kimbos_Egg posted...

your government is a reflection of your society and people. Its greedy and uncaring because the majority of you are.

So, are all governments a reflection of their people or does that only apply to Americans?

Solid_Snake07 posted...

I'm curious what some of you think is an appropriate response to the October attacks by Israel. Take it on the chin and sit back and wait for the next one?

-Immediately end all occupation in West Bank
-Don't do war crimes
-Don't indiscriminately bomb civillians
-Don't do war crimes like indiscriminately bombing civilians

All of these would've been a start.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Judaism and Islam both agree theologically in the value a single human life.

As we've seen with all religions, people use their religion as a shield while not actually abiding by their teachings.

Look at the US, every Republican pretends to be a god fearing Christian, yet they use their bible to inflict pain on others. Other religions are no different. Many believe in the teachings of their religion, few in power exemplify it.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

-Immediately end all occupation in West Bank
-Don't do war crimes
-Don't indiscriminately bomb civillians
-Don't do war crimes like indiscriminately bombing civilians

All of these would've been a start.

More specifically, what practical action should be taken to ensure October 7 does not happen again?
All Im hearing is people demanding that Israel stop winning this war, which is pretty much the same as allowing Hamas to recuperate, rearm and recruit more combatants. I mean I dont remember anyone here even considering how they would get Hamas to surrender, even though that would be the fastest way to end this conflict and prevent more deaths. And stop using that word indiscriminate because its stupid and untrue. Everybody knows Israel has the firepower and air capability to level the entire area into rubble, thus suffering no casualties of their own, but that would be indiscriminate and cause maximum civilian casualties so they dont do it.

kingdrake2 posted...

by the time israel goes "scorched earth"against hamas the death toll will be x100 or more on what hamas has killled.

Is Israel not going scorched earth right now? They are bombing hospitals.

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

More specifically, what practical action should be taken to ensure October 7 does not happen again?
All Im hearing is people demanding that Israel stop winning this war, which is pretty much the same as allowing Hamas to recuperate, rearm and recruit more combatants. I mean I dont remember anyone here even considering how they would get Hamas to surrender, even though that would be the fastest way to end this conflict and prevent more deaths. And stop using that word indiscriminate because its stupid and untrue. Everybody knows Israel has the firepower and air capability to level the entire area into rubble, thus suffering no casualties of their own, but that would be indiscriminate and cause maximum civilian casualties so they dont do it.

If you don't want Hamas to recruit people, then stop giving people a reason to join them.

All this indiscriminate killing only give more fuel for hatred.

Forty_Niners posted...

As we've seen with all religions, people use their religion as a shield while not actually abiding by their teachings.

Look at the US, every Republican pretends to be a god fearing Christian, yet they use their bible to inflict pain on others. Other religions are no different. Many believe in the teachings of their religion, few in power exemplify it.

There are holy wars in the Bible too

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

And stop using that word indiscriminate because its stupid and untrue. Everybody knows Israel has the firepower and air capability to level the entire area into rubble, thus suffering no casualties of their own, but that would be indiscriminate and cause maximum civilian casualties so they dont do it.

https://www.economist.com/is-israel-acting-within-the-laws-of-war-in-gaza

On October 10th an Israeli official told a television station: Gaza will eventually turn into a city of tents. There will be no buildings. Daniel Hagari, an IDF spokesperson, boasted that hundreds of tons of bombs had been dropped on Gaza. Then, he added: the emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy.

Stop telling people not to quote Israel's own words. You're at best totally ignorant of what Israel is up to and at worst blatantly dishonest.

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

All Im hearing is people demanding that Israel stop winning this war,

You can't prop up a terror cel behind hundreds of thousands of innocents and credibly say "we got no choice but to shoot through them!" That's manufacturing casus belli for an ethnic cleansing.

That's what Netanyahu has done. He encouraged and funded Hamas as an asset to the state explicitly to prevent more peace-interested parties in Palestine from having control or an international voice. The endgame is to remove Palestinians from this land, dead or alive.

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

More specifically, what practical action should be taken to ensure October 7 does not happen again?

Negotiate for the release of the hostages. Force Netanyahu to resign-- he has been the instrumental politician in sabotaging peace talks since the 2000s in favor of violence and expansion. Dismiss his cabinet of far right extremists. Fund a longstanding legitimate group in Palestine such as PA and ensure they have access to an international voice, such a position placing legitimacy as well as accountability on them in Palestine. Split off some of the billions of dollars in handouts we send to Israel for offensive bombs and instead spend it on civilian supplies to Palestine; stimulate an economy so there are things for people to do besides hide in a bunker or learn how to fire a gun.

Managing Gaza like a city where humans live instead of a concentration camp is pretty obviously a major step in stopping people from turning to radical violence.

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

More specifically, what practical action should be taken to ensure October 7 does not happen again?
All Im hearing is people demanding that Israel stop winning this war, which is pretty much the same as allowing Hamas to recuperate, rearm and recruit more combatants. I mean I dont remember anyone here even considering how they would get Hamas to surrender, even though that would be the fastest way to end this conflict and prevent more deaths. And stop using that word indiscriminate because its stupid and untrue. Everybody knows Israel has the firepower and air capability to level the entire area into rubble, thus suffering no casualties of their own, but that would be indiscriminate and cause maximum civilian casualties so they dont do it.

You know innocent people in Gaza were being killed before the Oct 7th right ? So how can we make sure that doesn't happen too.

cjsdowg posted...

You know innocent people in Gaza were being killed before the Oct 7th right ? So how can we make sure that doesn't happen too.

Demilitarize Israel and station a neutral third party peacekeeping force in Israel and Palestine.

sfcalimari posted...

If you're going to compare incomparable things, next do Stalin's purges, the Great Leap Forward, or civilian deaths in WW2.

Why are they incomparable? The OP drew a direct comparison between the two in plain English.

Trumble posted...

Demilitarize Israel and station a neutral third party peacekeeping force in Israel and Palestine.

Imagine the US demilitarising its own military base. Not saying I disagree with the idea, just that its so contrary to Israels modern purpose I cant help but find it funny.