Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 392: PM Mess

(+) Yeah! (+)

VintageGin posted...

As someone who is ignorant of how this works:

Wouldn't they have needed to present the contents of the phone during discovery? I thought you needed to bring any evidence forward at that time in order for it to be admissible. In which case, wouldn't Alex Jones' lawyers have found out then?

If you watch the full clip, I think the defense attorney explains why it is admissible and it involves a secondary fuck up by the defense.

https://twitter.com/briantylercohen/status/1554882192961982465?s=20&t=UUQqXuTAUv8H1TCINVofwQ

KamikazePotato posted...

Predominant theory I've seen is that Alex Jones' lawyer did this on purpose. Possibly to cause a mistrial, but even more likely because he hates Alex Jones lmao.

There's no judge that lets this become a mistrial from this. Jones' lawyer didn't even object at all during this. If you don't object during something that can be a mistrial they aren't awarding it to them.

After recess, Jones' lawyer basically just asked him "do you trust us to do a good job".

Lolwut

Also keep in mind that they didn't just give stuff relevant to the trial. They gave everything for the past 2 years.

This all sounds wild, haven't read past the tl;dr versions yet.

In other news, Ron Johnson just comes out and wants to kill Social Security and Medicare by taking them out of mandatory spending and placing them into discretionary spending.

https://twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1554606259596320770

wisconsin please

Thorn posted...

This all sounds wild, haven't read past the tl;dr versions yet.

In other news, Ron Johnson just comes out and wants to kill Social Security and Medicare by taking them out of mandatory spending and placing them into discretionary spending.

https://twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1554606259596320770

wisconsin please

But the Republican voting base is all.

I dont understand some times

Eliminating entitlements ok lets eliminate politician salaries because those sure look like entitlement to me

Ron Johnson is the worst, and I really hope enough of my fellow Wisconsinites vote his ass out.

Thorn posted...

In other news, Ron Johnson just comes out and wants to kill Social Security and Medicare by taking them out of mandatory spending and placing them into discretionary spending.

https://twitter.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1554606259596320770

Does he want to kill them? He seems to be saying that we should make them discretionary so we can deny certain people benefits. That's not how it works, obviously, but it's hard to say whether he wants to kill them and is appealing to race/class to convince voters to support that or if he's just too stupid to know what he's talking about. (Or maybe even both?)

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

There's no judge that lets this become a mistrial from this. Jones' lawyer didn't even object at all during this. If you don't object during something that can be a mistrial they aren't awarding it to them.

And this judge is definitely not on his side given she straight up announced to the courtroom that he committed perjury multiple times.

Maniac64 posted...

And this judge is definitely not on his side given she straight up announced to the courtroom that he committed perjury multiple times.

I have mixed feelings on that. I did see that when I read up on it a little last night, but I don't know that as a Judge you should be able to tell the jury he's committing perjury. It's his testimony to make, even if it's full of outright lies and bullshit. But I would expect if it got to this point it was particularly egregious with him just outright saying one thing and then saying the complete opposite during the same testimony repeatedly. That wouldn't shock me if that was the case.

Like usually if a Judge tells you to stop lying then they may as well just throw out the entire testimony, which is the issue with it. Because you're making the judgment for the jury. It's all "under oath" but if you lack any morals that's more of a suggestion than a truth. I have a hard time seeing any jury side with him after that though.

So you don't think he will get his requested penalty of $8.00 then? /s

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I have mixed feelings on that. I did see that when I read up on it a little last night, but I don't know that as a Judge you should be able to tell the jury he's committing perjury. It's his testimony to make, even if it's full of outright lies and bullshit. But I would expect if it got to this point it was particularly egregious with him just outright saying one thing and then saying the complete opposite during the same testimony repeatedly. That wouldn't shock me if that was the case.

Like usually if a Judge tells you to stop lying then they may as well just throw out the entire testimony, which is the issue with it. Because you're making the judgment for the jury. It's all "under oath" but if you lack any morals that's more of a suggestion than a truth. I have a hard time seeing any jury side with him after that though.

Honestly, while I get where you're coming from, I see it as more the judge just stating what everyone already knew by that point. And that message isn't also saying "YOu should not believe anything this man says going forward" just stating a fact that he already lied. It's still on the jury to decide if they're going to believe what is said going forward imo. I don't believe a single one of those jurors had their minds changed in any way by the judge saying what she said. If one of them didn't already realize he was committing perjury then they shouldn't be on a jury.

Xeybozn posted...

Does he want to kill them? He seems to be saying that we should make them discretionary so we can deny certain people benefits. That's not how it works, obviously, but it's hard to say whether he wants to kill them and is appealing to race/class to convince voters to support that or if he's just too stupid to know what he's talking about. (Or maybe even both?)

I mean, he doesn't outright say he wants to end them but that is the obvious outcome of moving them to discretionary spending. Even if you take him at his word (and I'd say the Johnson and the GOP absolutely have shown they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt) and he "just" wants to deny "certain" people benefits that's pretty much guaranteed to be so against the purpose of the programs that it is killing it in spirit if not name.

Like, killing these programs has been a long-term goal of the GOP for decades. They keep trying to find a way to frame it that they think can run cover for them but that's what it has always been about. Privatization, this, etc.

Also Schumer said he wants to hold the vote to proceed on reconciliation (Manchin's IRA/BBB) Saturday. Unclear if they have the votes because of, of course, Sinema.

Said vote wouldn't be final passage but would start a process that would probably see the final vote sometime next week.

Triple post, sorry, but I'm dying laughing.

https://twitter.com/annamerlan/status/1555203790185562113
https://twitter.com/annamerlan/status/1555203953692127232
https://twitter.com/annamerlan/status/1555205337275215872

please disregard

Holy fuck. Some absolutely horrific lawyering there.

That works if it's an internal email discussing strategy or something, but when you send a whole ass discovery file you refuses to send prior and STILL DON'T OBJECT WHEN THEY PRESENT IT AT TRIAL, sorry but no. Lol

Also an update on the Inflation Reduction Act: Sinema is onboard now after some tweaks.

https://twitter.com/frankthorp/status/1555360370134499330

Out:
Closing the carried interest loophole
Language on accelerated depreciation

In:
$5b in drought relief
1% excise tax on stock buybacks.

Early estimates is that the stock buyback excise will actually bring in more revenue than the two drops Sinema demanded would have but still a joke she demanded those.

The fact that something literally called a "loophole" would not just be allowed, but specifically protected by our elected officials, is funny as fuck.

Not that it's a thing we should keep, but it's not like it was named a loophole by the people who wrote it into the tax code!

No idea what his lawyers were doing.

It's amazing that six years after Donald Trump promised us that he would end the carried interest rule and Hillary refused to say she would do it, Hillary didn't get elected (and another Democrat did, in addition to Trump) but carried interest is still the law of the land.

I dont follow politics too closely, Alex Jones is an alt-right personality? Are they saying this trial is a sham or anything of the sort?

I have seen people saying that his own lawyer set him up as part of a grand leftist plan to take him down and destroy free speech

Of course theres no accountability on Alex for HIRING that lawyer

Jakyl25 posted...

I have seen people saying that his own lawyer set him up as part of a grand leftist plan to take him down and destroy free speech

Of course theres no accountability on Alex for HIRING that lawyer

This needs to stop because the lawyer opens himself up to being sued AND being disbarred. You are bound by the Bar Association to zealously advocate for your client, no matter what. Which is why you see them doing scumbag things to do so.

People saying that the trial is a sham is ignoring that Alex Jones, in every single case he's had, has been doing legal fuckery to provide discovery up to and including this case. This Judge is fed up at Jones refusing to comply with the discovery rules and got completely exposed for it. When attorneys try to disrupt the legal process, that's when Judges get pissed off, and Jones had done it enough times that she was just done.

All of this is fair.

I think they might be Twitter bots but they actually argue libel should be covered by freedom of speech, lol

Jakyl25 posted...

I think they might be Twitter bots but they actually argue libel should be covered by freedom of speech, lol

Blackmail is just freedom of speech obviously

https://twitter.com/astutecfo/status/1555704961555898368?s=21&t=XQi1Ip9p6J2m0DQei0WO2A

Jobs report for July is out. It came in well above expectation.

As of now all jobs lost in the pandemic have been recovered and the unemployment rate is tied at a 50-year low.

https://twitter.com/cameron_kasky/status/1556018698095194113?s=21&t=0YWGiqBXCpO5A9vM_1T28Q

Thorn posted...

Jobs report for July is out. It came in well above expectation.

As of now all jobs lost in the pandemic have been recovered and the unemployment rate is tied at a 50-year low.

No, Biden failed to hit jobs forecast for July. Got to get it right.

Look we already wrote our talking points. We're not gonna change them now!

Inflation Reduction Act Update:

It has mostly survived the parliamentarian. Only provision that seems to have been thrown out for sure was a provision that would require pharmaceutical companies to pay the government if they raised prices beyond rate of inflation. Parliamentarian said it was fine for Medicare but tossed the part that applied ti to private insurance as well.

Medicare being able to negotiate prices is in, and a $35 cap on insulin for Medicare is in. I've heard conflicting reports on $35 cap on insulin for private insurance though. Best I can tell is we don't have a ruling on it so we can expect some GOP asshole to object to it and get us a ruling in real-time. Based on how they split the decision on the above provision I feel like they might similarly rule it out for private insurance here too. If so, I imagine Dems will (and they absolutely should) call a vote (needing 60) to put it back in to get them on the record. Climate provisions appear to have sailed through as well.

Vote-a-rama (the price of a reconciliation bill being that literally any Senator can propose amendments to be voted on until they're literally out of ideas) strategy from Dems appears to be to just vote down any amendment regardless of policy because this deal is basically a massive jenga tower that could fall apart because Manchin, Sinema, or whoever might pull support if we god forbid put more good stuff in here. Senators from Markey to Manchin himself have gone on the record saying they're just going to blanket vote down any amendment regardless of policy to preserve the deal as-is. By contrast, Sanders says he'll still offer amendments so prepare to see a lot of good stuff voted down because of the above.

Motion to proceed has passed 51-50 (Harris tiebreaker) and the marathon has begun and will likely continue all the way through the night.

GTM posted...

I dont follow politics too closely, Alex Jones is an alt-right personality?

alex jones self-identifies as a libertarian but i mostly associate him with the alt-right, yeah. you could also argue the shit he says is so crazy that he doesn't fit in any political school of thought, though.

The portrayal of J. Jonah Jameson in the Marvel Cinematic Universe is inspired in part by Alex Jones.

Inflation Reduction Act passes the Senate.

As expected the GOP objected to the insulin provision in the bill. The parliamentarian ruled it was outside the reconciliation rules for private insurance (but okay for Medicare) and Dems held a vote to try and restore it, needing 60 votes. It "failed" 57-43.

Isnt it great when your government represents the people, but its just the 1% and everybody else can eat shit and get wrecked?

Also heard at least 20 R attorney generals are planning to sue Biden admin for a school meal program because it doesnt let them discriminate against LGBTQ children.

Every day just looks like more and more intolerant shit in this country and it looks hopeless to get rid of it.

https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1556007614135148544?s=21&t=ojbw_JQWlbfQVWeOc5B0og

I still don't get what Biden would lose much of if he just condemned the Republican Party as a cult. Especially given they use language like "Republican In Name Only". Plus Gina Carano flat-out admitted Republicans are comparable to a religious cult.

They arent comparable. They ARE one.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

I still don't get what Biden would lose much of if he just condemned the Republican Party as a cult. Especially given they use language like "Republican In Name Only". Plus Gina Carano flat-out admitted Republicans are comparable to a religious cult.

A large portion of Americans like to believe they are in the middle and if you damage their fantasy they vote for Republicans.

red13n posted...

A large portion of Americans like to believe they are in the middle and if you damage their fantasy they vote for Republicans.

Along those same lines, a large majority of Americans are conservative in nature, and the only reason the Democrats have been able to gain any traction as a political party is because the GOP have become so far-right and overwhelmingly hateful and openly racist/sexist/homophobic that moderate conservatives have joined the Dems, because the Dems are the "nice" party. But the second the Dems start being even KINDA mean, then suddenly it opens up accusations of "well now both sides are the same" and the vote becomes about who's going to lower taxes. Hence why everyone got so much madder about the "basket of deplorables" line than the stream of verbal diarrhea coming from Trump.

Dont forget sadly some of their base loves the fact theyre being openly racist and shit now too and will happily still vote them even if their own well-being is ruined because the people they hate got it worse and thats good enough for them even if theyre impoverished forever as well

Inviso posted...

Along those same lines, a large majority of Americans are conservative in nature, and the only reason the Democrats have been able to gain any traction as a political party is because the GOP have become so far-right and overwhelmingly hateful and openly racist/sexist/homophobic that moderate conservatives have joined the Dems, because the Dems are the "nice" party. But the second the Dems start being even KINDA mean, then suddenly it opens up accusations of "well now both sides are the same" and the vote becomes about who's going to lower taxes. Hence why everyone got so much madder about the "basket of deplorables" line than the stream of verbal diarrhea coming from Trump.

I mean is any of this wrong? Not in the mean part, but you have a solid 3% of the country disenchanted by FPTP politics who are voting 3rd party or not voting g because they don't like the establishment

If democrats don't appear to be different you aren't capturing that, which is one of the reasons why I think democrats trying to get radical Republicans winning primaries is so incredibly stupid. It makes it look like all democrats care about is winning elections

I mean, it's wrong that we live in a country of self-centered assholes that care more about "fuck you, got mine" as a collective nation, than supporting policies that will benefit everyone. It's wrong that the only way we can KINDA get enough votes to support progressive policy is by being so safe and milquetoast and meek that it won't scare moderates into "both sides are the same" thinking (against a party being openly racist, and actively trying to overthrow democracy).

America is definitely more conservative than just about every other liberal democracy on the planet, only Japan likely surpasses it there. Critically you can see this not just from the politicians that get elected but from polling on issues also. Americans are less likely to support interventionist, collectivist, and redistributive policies than people from other countries, and regularly poll behind other democracies on social issues. The cause is obvious: individualistic culture plus unusual levels of religion plus fearmongering around so-called communism ie anything but the unrestrained free market run absolutely wild.

However, America is still much to the left of its politicians. A solid 30-40% support social democratic ideals yet there are maybe 10 national politicians who share these ideals. There is obviously space for the centre-left in America but the system doesnt allow it. If Americas parties actually represented its voting blocs youd have a nationalist far-right party, a Christian interests party, a centre-right liberal party, a centre-left social democratic party and MAYBE a green party. There are quite a diverse set of political beliefs in America that are let down by its system that only gives you centre-right and far-right options.

Yeah, I think the problem we have moreso than anything else is half the country is in fact conservative, and the republican party is intertwining conservative thinking with autocracy.

Complaining about the conservative nature of the country isn't going to get you anywhere as it's been that way since the founding of the country. Collectivists don't leave their country for a new colony across the ocean where starvation is likely

swordz9 posted...

They arent comparable. They ARE one.

I said comparable because Carano acted like Republicans are somehow getting treated like Jews in Nazi Germany. Even if that were true, she's still equating religion and politics, i.e. all but admitting the Republican Party is a cult.

Inviso posted...

Along those same lines, a large majority of Americans are conservative in nature, and the only reason the Democrats have been able to gain any traction as a political party is because the GOP have become so far-right and overwhelmingly hateful and openly racist/sexist/homophobic that moderate conservatives have joined the Dems, because the Dems are the "nice" party. But the second the Dems start being even KINDA mean, then suddenly it opens up accusations of "well now both sides are the same" and the vote becomes about who's going to lower taxes. Hence why everyone got so much madder about the "basket of deplorables" line than the stream of verbal diarrhea coming from Trump.

The basket of deplorables line got people mad because it came from Hillary Clinton and people will use any excuse to get mad at her. She straight-up admitted she was generalizing and even then said only half of Trump's supporters, not half the country. Also Trump voters love getting offended.

I'm 90% convinced Trump only won that election because people were sick and tired of Hillary Clinton and it was easy to galvanize support against her. Trump's performance in 2020 is likely far more typical for someone like him. I'd hardly be surprised if Trump successfully ran for a 2nd term but only because everything is so crazy, but I don't think it will actually happen. I found an interview where Scarlett Johansson said she thinks it will happen though.

Its not entirely the fault of the average person either. They get brainwashed before they even realize it because the powers that be want it that way. Got mine fuck you is the baby boomer gen and the billion dollar corporations way of life and theyre the ones who control stuff. The media is also controlled naturally which is why you see countless articles lately about how millennials are entitled and/or lazy because they want livable wages and to actually be able to afford a house instead of having to go in on one with several people or wait for the market to collapse. America today is 100% built on fucking over anyone who isnt wealthy and keeping those who arent in line by having them fight each other when the reality is its a class war not a race war or anything else