Board 8 > I can still ignore preferred pronouns if they are Fae/Faer right

(+) Yeah! (+)

ChichiriMuyo posted...

There are a whole lot more f*** you posts than there are posts to just, you know, educate me.

man we tried for a while with the troll! I think you're overblowing how tragic it is that a dude who came to sealion and annoy people is no longer able to do so, and that those of us targeted can breathe a bit easier.

Or since you're talking about "you" and not the guy we're talking about, please keep in mind that you are coming in on the tail end of a very long conversation (this topic went for a while, and before that was the puns saga in the politics topic, and before that was like five more arguments about Dave Chappelle) and going to bat for the bad guy. (and yes, I would count "be nice to the troll :(" as "defending" him whether or not you are actually on his side) You are like dude #17 to step up for the feelings of the transphobes and we're a bit tired of it by now.

Lopen posted...

You have to be really careful to say you're celiac or have an allergy, usually multiple times. Otherwise people just think it's a preference to be gluten free (and many times they treat it that way anyway)

this is worth emphasizing! for some people it is a fad diet and for some people they will spend an hour on the toilet if their food looks at a speck of gluten, so please assume the latter just to be safe

KamikazePotato posted...

overall it would've been better to just invent a new word.

I mean maybe but you can see how well that's going for the people who are trying! Also we did already have singular they for other reasons: "Somebody forgot their keys;" "if they order a burger, try to sell them a combo instead." With the knock-on effect of seeing less of that awkward "he or she" thing we were doing for a while.

ChichiriMuyo posted...

I might not get banned, but it sure as hell feels like a lot of people would like it if I were.

Why do you feel that way? I haven't seen you do anything to get more than a "dude knock it off" reaction and that seems to be the reaction you are getting.

ChichiriMuyo posted...

Chris, I love you, and I am in general agreement with the sentiment of "a******s can f*** right off," but how many of us have been a******s in the past? No, let's reverse that. How many of us haven't been a******s in the past?

Sure! I got better, though. Partially because I got backlash for it and re-evaluated (or at least kept it to myself until I got my head on straight)!

ChichiriMuyo posted...

All I said was it's petty to gloat at someone when they're punished for doing something wrong.

Okay, and people disagree with this on a fundamental level and take it as a defense, because the outcome is similar enough.

People being slightly mean to you over it also isn't an "attack" but this is just rehashing the civility argument so whatever.

ChichiriMuyo posted...

stuff that he deleted before I finished responding

That's not what I said, what I said was we're kinda tired of having this conversation (and might be a little shorter than normal with you as a result)

Still not seeing a difference between "don't be happy the bad guy is gone" and "be nice to the bad guy." Similarly, I would define myself as "defending" neopronoun users even though I am not one and don't even entirely understand what they're going for. Heck, I'm not even one of the people celebrating that dudebro is gone, either, and I am defending those people too!

There's no fucking point. Some of you have been straight up assholes to me for no god damned reason. You've taken me out of context and assigned values to me that I don't even believe in, and you fucking think you're justified in that. Good. Great. I honestly don't know why I'd expect anything different.

are you okay bud

this is a very disproportionate response

Yeah I mean it comes down to the classic argument of "I don't agree with what you said but I will defend your right to say it" but it turns out a lot of people are incredibly tired of that and do not actually want to defend everyone's right to say every shitty thing anymore

https://youtu.be/eipZnwYEHtU

I thought this topic was going to be about the Faer right.

Turns out I was right.

and scene

Yay trans rights!

ChichiriMuyo posted...

I appreciate the sentiment and I'll consider the possibility that I misjudged your intent... but fuck, man. I might not get banned, but it sure as hell feels like a lot of people would like it if I were. There are a whole lot more fuck you posts than there are posts to just, you know, educate me.

Yeah, I definitely think you mistook my message as "yay, someone that doesn't have these view points got banned" as opposed to "yay, this troll riling people up on a video game forum got banned". I also do not think you are defending him and I do think your response to me is definitely being misrepresented. For what it's worth, my view points on this matter don't exactly line up with the thread consensus either. But if I see someone that's probably in their thirties poorly trolling people that are having a civil discussion about a controversial matter get banned, then yeah I'll probably be pretty happy about it.

Actually, nah, reading the room that joke's in poor taste.

KamikazePotato posted...

I'll say 'they' but I do think it was horrible branding that legitimately confuses some neutral people. It wouldn't have changed anything for the bigots, but overall it would've been better to just invent a new word.

I mean... people tried! There are gender neutral neopronouns that date back to the 1800s*. But they didn't enter regular use while "they" did, which is just a linguistic thing, there's not really any way to control how language incorporates new words.

*I had to fact check myself on this because I was like "they're older than people think, I want to say... 1970s" and then checked and NOPE "ze" is from 1864. That's as old as words like "homosexuality" and "girlfriend"!

The one response I've found that seems to convert well-intentioned neutral people is to bring up that nobody uses "thou" anymore, we all just use the singular "you". No idea why this is more convincing than a 600-year history of using the singular "they" but in my experience it definitely is.

He/Her/They cover off all possible gender identities, and it's a reasonable ask to have people use the pronoun that applies to you, whether male/female/non-binary identifying.

Shakespeare used singular they in his plays so the etymology is even older. Ze/zir has definitely been around a long time (hundreds of years) too.

Comedy101 posted...

He/Her/They cover off all possible gender identities

exact same energy as the dude in ancient greece who confidently proclaimed "there are exactly 63 fishes in the sea"

don't push your luck, kenri. Getting people to accept NB as valid is already a big win

Reading about ze being invented in 1864 made me stumble across a whole slew of neopronouns invented in the 1800s and even before that through all of human history. I guess thats a good slap-back whenever anyone says any of this stuff is new. At least no neopronouns will ever be as bad as pupself.

PerfectChaosZ posted...

Try reading the topic.

No fucking thanks

greengravy294 posted...

No fucking thanks

Then remain ignorant but don't assume we want to hear about it

https://youtu.be/7tOkpntQtBM

Ah, yes, "making it worse for everyone" rather than the clear overreaction of people in power to make an example of the most unrelatable members of a group, as an excuse to exercise a chokehold on the rest.

Not to mention bad faith efforts to make people look bad, which ultimately deserve to backfire.
https://youtu.be/rRHed_USdxA

DeepsPraw posted...

don't push your luck, kenri. Getting people to accept NB as valid is already a big win

It's more the unmerited confidence I take issue with, if he had said "I think there are probably only 2 genders" I'm not sure I'd have even responded.

Kenri posted...

It's more the unmerited confidence I take issue with, if he had said "I think there are probably only 2 genders" I'm not sure I'd have even responded.

Logically binary + non-binary does include everything, so that part makes sense. The fallacy is thinking you would never need to be more specific than "non-binary".

foolm0r0n posted...

Logically binary + non-binary does include everything, so that part makes sense. The fallacy is thinking you would never need to be more specific than "non-binary".

so why is faer even in the same conversation as gender? furry obviously isnt a gender, but fairy is? where does gender stop and other aspects of self begin? to me gender loses meaning if it strays outside of male/female dichotomy.

DeepsPraw posted...

to me

identified the problem

elaborate, please

to be clear, im not saying I think male or female are the only valid gender expressions. I think by definition, any sort of gender expression must in some way relate to societal views of what is male/female, masculine/feminine, otherwise why even call it gender?

DeepsPraw posted...

so why is faer even in the same conversation as gender? furry obviously isnt a gender, but fairy is? where does gender stop and other aspects of self begin? to me gender loses meaning if it strays outside of male/female dichotomy.

yeah i feel like fae is answering a different question than what is your gender is asking

like if I ask your race and you tell me Polish. Im looking for you to say white, I dont care what kind of white you are. Im just trying to check a box on a form.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

yeah i feel like fae is answering a different question than what is your gender is asking

Well, it is. It's not "literal fairy."

Genderfae is describing a specific nonbinary, specific genderfluid identity that does not include maleness. Which is different from "a woman" because sometimes a fae would not feel like a woman. And sometimes someone might feel this way but not want to use these pronouns anyways.

So this is another good reason to respect neopronouns in general because sometimes they are describing some real phenomenon but just about all the discussion is that it has a silly name.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Well, it is. It's not "literal fairy."

Genderfae is describing a specific nonbinary, specific genderfluid identity that does not include maleness. Which is different from "a woman" because sometimes a fae would not feel like a woman. And sometimes someone might feel this way but not want to use these pronouns anyways.

So this is another good reason to respect neopronouns in general because sometimes they are describing some real phenomenon but just about all the discussion is that it has a silly name.

I actually don't think fae/faer pronouns and genderfae are related, oddly enough, as my understanding goes

okay that makes perfect sense. I wish there was some way that was intrinsically obvious though (even if thats impossible). I think faer in a vacuum definitely draws a little too close to invoking literal fairies

Paratroopa1 posted...

I actually don't think fae/faer pronouns and genderfae are related, oddly enough, as my understanding goes

okay now thats just stupid

Paratroopa1 posted...

I actually don't think fae/faer pronouns and genderfae are related, oddly enough, as my understanding goes

It generally has been when I've seen it but I can easily accept there's people for who it isn't so alright

I think my general point here remains there is a huge spectrum of gender to interrogate so it's pretty unhelpful to dismiss anything out of hand

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

It generally has been when I've seen it but I can easily accept there's people for who it isn't so alright

I might be ENTIRELY mistaken about this since it's not really my area of expertise, I just thought fae/faer pronouns were a separate matter, like most genderfae people would just use she/they

I never realized what % of b8 was trans

NeatoAnAccount posted...

I never realized what % of b8 was trans

none of us did either

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Well, it is. It's not "literal fairy."

Genderfae is describing a specific nonbinary, specific genderfluid identity that does not include maleness. Which is different from "a woman" because sometimes a fae would not feel like a woman. And sometimes someone might feel this way but not want to use these pronouns anyways.

So this is another good reason to respect neopronouns in general because sometimes they are describing some real phenomenon but just about all the discussion is that it has a silly name.

I think I just found a word for myself. Most of the time I do feel like a woman or at least partly a woman but sometimes when I am tired I tell my husband "I don't want to gender today"
I still like to wear dresses and be feminine most of the time, but reading about people who are genderfae, it fits me. I have always felt a strong connection with the changeling myth and I noticed a lot of people who do seem to identify as this or the male counterpart.
I'm not a fairy or what people are saying. My husband joked that my gender is elf.
If I didn't have pagan friends, I would probably use She/Fae as my pronouns.

heyo

At least its something that makes people feel happy and connected to themself in this terrible terrible world

PerfectChaosZ posted...

Then remain ignorant but don't assume we want to hear about it

You do

greengravy294 posted...

You do

Be more desperate for attention lol

Hey is this the new mental health topic?

If I felt some type of way and I found it was labeled "fae" I would make up something new.

So your solution is even more neopronouns

NeatoAnAccount posted...

I never realized what % of b8 was trans

I remember leaving the board a number of years ago when I realized I was trans bc it didn't seem like the kind of place where that was gonna go well (this was just after the 2016/2017 era which was maybe the low point in B8 history), and now I come back and there's a whole community.

MrGreenonion posted...

I remember leaving the board a number of years ago when I realized I was trans bc it didn't seem like the kind of place where that was gonna go well (this was just after the 2016/2017 era which was maybe the low point in B8 history), and now I come back and there's a whole community.

this is, of course, why there's such a 'sudden rise' of people identifying as trans in the last 5-10 years

Yeah it's very cool that it happened that way rather than everyone leaving

MYC and Michete walked so we could run

Paratroopa1 posted...

this is, of course, why there's such a 'sudden rise' of people identifying as trans in the last 5-10 years

Nah it's just an autism thing. That's why they're overrepresented among programmers, speedrunners, animators, furries, linguists, Magic players, and b8ers