Board 8 > Is Castlevania a "horror game franchise"?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mass Effect is definitely a love sim

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KamikazePotato posted...

For me, there's a distinct difference between something that is horror and something that is horror-themed. Horror-themed uses elements of horror like window dressing; see, Hotel Transylvania. Horror is meant to actually scare you. They're technically under the same genre but I don't consider them to be remotely similar in terms of the emotions they're trying to provoke. To me, Castlevania is horror-themed much more than it is horror.

I agree with this, but neither of them actually has ownership over the word horror.

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Is there even a Castlevania game considered horrifyingly bad?

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WhiteLens posted...

Is there even a Castlevania game considered horrifyingly bad?

Plenty, actually.
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Its not scary horror but its horror-influenced so thats enough for me to vote horror

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does Judgment count

I liked when SHINE kicked my ass his first day with the game that I've had for maybe weeks ahead of him

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I think applying the more modern definition of "horror game" to a series as old as Castlevania is kind of unfair. Like, putting Draculas and Frankensteins in your game was as horror as it really got back then. They just didn't make games with the intention of evoking specific emotional responses in those days, and by the time that was more common, the idea of what it meant to be a Castlevania game was more or less set in stone.

It's like how Bela Lugosi's Dracula doesn't really have much in common with Jason Takes Manhattan, and neither of them has much in common with The Nun, but they're all still horror movies.

Nah, it's an action platformer that never attempts to scare people. I can't even imagine kids being scared by it, both because:

1) I grew up with the games and was never scared. This is unlike Metroid Fusion, which actively sought to creep people out with the SA-X, and succeeded with me when I was a kid.

2) Nothing about the games rely on suspense, dread, or fear. Nothing is ever treated as more than just another enemy to whip down or boss to throw crosses at. The camera doesn't purposefully hide enemies out of sight, the design of the games don't purposefully put a zombie right around the corner to surprise you, we don't see horrific transformations of someone's body contorting, cracking, and morphing into abominations (at most we have, what, Graham's transformation in AoS?), players are not borderline defenseless or packing extremely weak methods of attack to provoke fear of being attacked or chased by enemies, etc.

We might as well label Pokemon a horror series based on some of the pokedex entries if we're going to say Legion is enough to classify as horror.

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MrGreenonion posted...

I think applying the more modern definition of "horror game" to a series as old as Castlevania is kind of unfair. Like, putting Draculas and Frankensteins in your game was as horror as it really got back then. They just didn't make games with the intention of evoking specific emotional responses in those days, and by the time that was more common, the idea of what it meant to be a Castlevania game was more or less set in stone.

It's like how Bela Lugosi's Dracula doesn't really have much in common with Jason Takes Manhattan, and neither of them has much in common with The Nun, but they're all still horror movies.

'Horror game' and 'horror movie' have very different connotations. If someone asked you for a horror movie recommendation, you would ask them what kind they liked. If someone asked you for a horror game recommendation, absolutely no one would even think of suggesting Castlevania.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob14UH2FdOs

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You know, Simon's Quest might actually be a Horror Game though:

• The way villagers talk to you is pretty unsettling
• The way the towns look, kinda scares me for some reason
• It is more about puzzle solving, than combat
• Nighttime is scarier than daytime
• It has a bit of a survival horror aspect, since it is hard to heal
• The game structure has a lot of backtracking, like an early Resident Evil
• The mansions have surprise traps (the missing floors)
• It feels low budget
• It is bad

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Why not just say that horror as a theme and as a game genre are two different things? I'd have to say Castlevania is darker and more grotesque than Scooby-Doo or Hotel Transylvania, but horror games do seem to have the requirement of intentionally provoking fear whether or not they're successful.

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I've seen sites listing Castlevania games with the horror tag, and they ain't wrong. Imagine thinking a game where the bosses are Medusa heads, mummies, Frankenstein, werewolves, vampires, ghosts, zombies, dark priests, demons, all inside and around Dracula's castle, with lore about ritual sacrifices and entire villages been slaughtered, NOT horror. Survival horror is perhaps more immersive but you don't have to buy that it's the only type of horror in a game. Is House of the Dead not horror either? It is, while been a straight full action game. When you think about it, Castlevania is probably the all-star horror game franchise.

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I dont have to imagine it not being horror.
its not.

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you can nuance your way out of a Yes, but i think it's pretty clearly a Yes if you have to choose Yes or No. It's extremely horror themed to the point that it does give that feeling in game, even if it doesn't really focus on those elements gameplay wise.

The anime didn't end up the way it is by accident.

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anime ja nai

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It's not a horror game, but it certainly a franchise that fits the theme and would not be out of place for something like halloween/october.
It could very easily be a horror game/universe if done right.

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lordjers posted...

Is House of the Dead not horror either?

It's a light gun game. I'd never describe it as horror, no.

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Right zelda is not a fantasy game. Its an adventure game.

Fallout is not an apocalyptic game. Its a shooter rpg

Thats what you all sound.

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horror games have a certain gameplay expectation and Castlevania doesn't really meet it beyond aesthetics (aside from maybe Simon's Quest)

it's not really quite the same thing

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Amazing topic. The amount of divisive points of view really met my expectations.

As for myself (being someone who absolutely hates horror, scary things, gore, grotesque sights, and unsettling stuff), I absolutely love Castlevania as an action-adventure, fantasy game franchise.

The level of artistry achieved by the aesthetics, musicalization, and animations is just beautiful. The way the enemies get destroyed is quite artistic as well. It manages to give you the opposite feeling of fear and uncertainty, since you actually feel like a land-cleansing hero that no monster can stand against. It's outstanding. I'd go as far as to say that it's practically an anti-horror game franchise in the sense that it constantly shows you how good always triumphs over evil.

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pjbasis posted...

Right zelda is not a fantasy game. Its an adventure game.

Fallout is not an apocalyptic game. Its a shooter rpg

Thats what you all sound.

Fantasy and apocalyptic are both aesthetic elements, equivalent to gothic horror for Castlevania. Horror, adventure, and shooter are genres.
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Games like Resident Evil 5 and 6 are regularly considered horror games despite not being scary at all.


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Robazoid posted...

Fantasy and apocalyptic are both aesthetic elements, equivalent to gothic horror for Castlevania. Horror, adventure, and shooter are genres.

Totally agree. Zelda is a fantasy series. Castlevania is a horror series.

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pjbasis posted...

Games like Resident Evil 5 and 6 are regularly considered horror games despite not being scary at all.

they're part of what's generally considered a horror series

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Advokaiser posted...

The level of artistry achieved by the aesthetics, musicalization, and animations is just beautiful. The way the enemies get destroyed is quite artistic as well. It manages to give you the opposite feeling of fear and uncertainty, since you actually feel like a land-cleansing hero that no monster can stand against. It's outstanding. I'd go as far as to say that it's practically an anti-horror game franchise in the sense that it constantly shows you how good always triumphs over evil.

That just sounds to me like you've played the easy ones.

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there's definitely been talks about Resident Evil leaving its horror routes and into an action game instead, until 7 brought it back

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Resident Evil is not horror, it's action adventure <_<

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lordjers posted...

Resident Evil is not horror, it's action adventure <_<

That didnt start until RE 4

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RE4 is less "survival horror" than the ones before but not really any less scary.

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Yeah, if anything RE4 goes harder into attempting to scare you than previous games. Whether or not it succeeds is another matter.

5 and 6, otoh, dial that way the hell back.
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If someone said they didn't think RE5/6 were horror games, I would consider that to be entirely valid.

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redrocket posted...

That didnt start until RE 4

They've been Action Adventure since the first one.

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lordjers posted...

They've been Action Adventure since the first one.

RE1 and RE4 are more similar in terms of the cheesy b-movie action/horror tone than I think people give them credit for, but they are definitely still horror. It's a good illustration of the point on gameplay mechanics people bring up, because RE1's more emphasized survival horror gives it weight.

5 meanwhile goes so hard into pulp action that it starts to overpower everything else, and it does it in ways that are uh...not good! The less said about that specific aspect of the game, the better.

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lordjers posted...

That just sounds to me like you've played the easy ones.

Nope. That isn't a valid argument in this case.

Believe me, I've played nearly all of the Classicvanias (the ones pre-SotN), and the difficulty doesn't make it "scarier" or anything. In fact, it only makes it more frustrating/annoying if it goes off the charts, just like any other game.

As far as modern ones, I've also played Curse of Darkness on Crazy mode and it's pretty much the same thing (save for the "frustrating" part, since that game's combat system is one of the best implemented in any game ever).

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Skipped most of the topic, will read in a moment, but I'd say yes because the horror elements are so heavily leaned into by the game

This isn't the same as Persona because Persona dips into a lot of things-- like if Castlevania had a huge influence from Norse gods and whatever else I'd be a different story.

But I mean it's not meant to be scary per se. It's just like a tribute to horror classics more than anything. But to say it's not horror is like saying the original Mummy movie isn't meant to be horror just because it's not remotely scary.

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@ElCochran90

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So yeah Snake55555555 said it better than I did but generally speaking I agree with his post

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Advokaiser posted...

Nope. That isn't a valid argument in this case.

Believe me, I've played nearly all of the Classicvanias (the ones pre-SotN), and the difficulty doesn't make it "scarier" or anything. In fact, it only makes it more frustrating/annoying if it goes off the charts, just like any other game.

As far as modern ones, I've also played Curse of Darkness on Crazy mode and it's pretty much the same thing (save for the "frustrating" part, since that game's combat system is one of the best implemented in any game ever).

Well if you faced Death in CV1 it was more likely that you'd think "Maybe evil does triumph after all".

And difficulty aside, lorewise the world is just not a very hopeful place. Every once in a while dark rituals are made to try and resurrect Dracula, and when he does either cities or villages and their people are ravaged, people are kidnapped for even more sacrifices, children get locked up and burned in towers, etc. The Netflix series really do nail this aspect, even if monsters die cool as well!

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