Board 8 > Wandavision 2: MCU Boogaloo

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mr Lasastryke posted...

monica certainly seemed to think so.

Monica just thought she wasn't evil and that she could be reasoned with in order to end the situation peacefully. She still knew Wanda was in the wrong and had to be stopped, she just didn't agree with Hayward's methods.

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They all seemed perfectly happy that Wanda just walked away, and yeah Monica in particular showed far more sympathy for Wanda than the thousands of traumatised residents of Westview. And there's a lot of space between 'blow her up' and 'tell her she's great and let her fly away free without so much as an apology to Westview'. Like at least one character should have mentioned trying to put Wanda in prison or something >_>

Can we talk about that bit in Agatha's head where Wanda says the difference between them is that Agatha did it on purpose? Because I've been thinking about that and the line is trying to frame Wanda as good, but with the actual context... Agatha was literally being murdered and only killed in self-defence, even pleading that she could still be good. Wanda's victims did nothing wrong and she went and up-ended their lives with at least the knowledge later on that she was imprisoning people and holding them hostage.

Again if the plan is for Wanda to become a villain later then fine, but the more I think on it this finale on its own really doesn't conclude this arc very well.

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Did someone explain how Agatha and the Sword dude were connected at all? It seems pretty obvious both of them wanted it to happen but they both kind of showed up at the same time

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andylt posted...

only killed in self-defence, even pleading that she could still be good.

She was lying.

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andylt posted...

Agatha was literally being murdered and only killed in self-defence, even pleading that she could still be good.

spoilers don't believe what a villain says when they're begging for their life

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

yeah, the dottie scene was REALLY dark jesus christ. the fact that at the end, monica was basically like "YOU'RE STILL GREAT WANDA YOU'VE SACRIFICED SO MUCH" was dumb as hell. again, monica is WAY too in love with wanda.

She was empathizing with Wanda because she too has grief she couldn't come to terms with in her mother. Wanda acknowledged nothing she could do would ever take the hate for her from them. Rightfully so. However, she didn't have to save them either. She could have kept the facade on forever. She did sacrifice all she ever wanted in the end. Monica simply states she probably would have done the same if she could for her mother. How many would if they had the ability to do so? And recognizes how hard it was for wanda to come to closure and sacrifice it all in the end.

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red13n posted...

She was lying.

LeonhartFour posted...

spoilers don't believe what a villain says when they're begging for their life

OK but... she literally was being murdered. They tied her up and tried to execute her. She had the power to ice them all regardless even if she said nothing, I don't see how you can blame her for what she did there. If she did nothing, she would have died. If Wanda did nothing, everyone would've been fine. The line about Agatha's murders being a 'choice' is what I'm getting at here, because... she really didn't have a choice if she wanted to survive.


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red13n posted...

She was lying.

you don't know that.

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The implication was they were going to kill Agatha for screwing about with the Darkhold. Which as far as the comics go is literally a book of spells written by a Lovecraftian monster to facilitate his coming back and eating everything

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Were ya'll looking at Agatha's facial expressions? When she's brought out to the stake she's blubbering and begging; as soon as her mother tells her to drop the act she's instantly calm, cool, and calculating. During the beam struggles she's emotional and straining; once everyone's dead she looks mildly curious and completely collected. In all her interactions with Wanda in the last two episodes she goes back and forth between emotional for effect and instantly completely in control of herself; the only time she seems genuinely happy is when she thinks Wanda has given up and agreed to hand over her power. The entire point of all this is to show Agatha as a sociopath, or at least that there's something deeply wrong with her.

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Yes I watched the scene and I know she was enjoying herself, I'm not denying that she's a clearly immoral villain here by present day (which is a lame choice they went with imo, would've been better if she was trying to stop Scarlet Witch from destroying the world). Just that her killing the other witches was absolutely an understandable and necessary choice on her end, not the single evil act that separates her from Wanda like Wanda suggests.

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She wouldn't have even been in that situation if she didn't do something bad and/or evil in the first place, and messing with the Darkhold definitely falls under that. You can't commend her on an understandable and necessary choice when the only reason that choice existed was because of malice.

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davidponte posted...

She wouldn't have even been in that situation if she didn't do something bad and/or evil in the first place, and messing with the Darkhold definitely falls under that. You can't commend her on an understandable and necessary choice when the only reason that choice existed was because of malice.

I think youre probably right here, but the show didnt make it clear at all. Casual audiences wouldnt know any lore about the Darkhold and why it was bad Agatha was messing with it

ScepterOfLove posted...

I think youre probably right here, but the show didnt make it clear at all. Casual audiences wouldnt know any lore about the Darkhold and why it was bad Agatha was messing with it

I feel like by the last episode you know the Darkhold is bad news

Plus the name has DARK in it

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masterplum posted...

Did someone explain how Agatha and the Sword dude were connected at all? It seems pretty obvious both of them wanted it to happen but they both kind of showed up at the same time

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I don't think there is a connection, just a silly coincidence that weirdly neither of them commented on. They def needed another ep to have White Vision work.

davidponte posted...

She wouldn't have even been in that situation if she didn't do something bad and/or evil in the first place, and messing with the Darkhold definitely falls under that. You can't commend her on an understandable and necessary choice when the only reason that choice existed was because of malice.

Isn't that the book Wanda is reading from at the end though? In any case I don't think I can see people burning someone at the stake as Good Guys, they had it coming.

Honestly Agatha was such a disappointment overall for me, clearly we're meant to think she's pure evil but I kept feeling like there were glimpses of something more earlier on. I might be alone on the stake burning thing but throughout Wanda's extended therapy session there seemed to be a drive to her beyond 'I want your power', and as said earlier she could've been genuinely concerned about the havoc Wanda would wreak on the world. Real wasted opportunity just having her be the cackling evil witch in the last ep, imo. (Yeah she was cackling in Agatha All Along but I figured that was just heightened reality for the sitcom effect).

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We still don't have an answer for the deed right?

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CelesMyUserName posted...

We still don't have an answer for the deed right?

What do you mean?

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I just imagine Vision bought the plot before the events of Infinity War and Wanda discovered it after coming back in Endgame.

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Waluigi1 posted...

What do you mean?

who left it in her car after Hawley encounter

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CelesMyUserName posted...

who left it in her car after Hawley encounter

Wanda did, because she had it the whole time. Because Vision bought it before Infinity War and Wanda found it after Endgame.

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Not_an_Owl posted...

Wanda did, because she had it the whole time. Because Vision bought it before Infinity War and Wanda found it after Endgame.

Yeah I didn't think it was mysteriously left there. She had already opened it and looked at it, at least I'm lead to assume since it was already opened when we saw it in the seat.

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mnkboy907 posted...

I just imagine Vision bought the plot before the events of Infinity War and Wanda discovered it after coming back in Endgame.

I thought it was a pretty obvious Sword plant, after the Sword guy let her walk in and goaded her

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andylt posted...

I might be alone on the stake burning thing but throughout Wanda's extended therapy session there seemed to be a drive to her beyond 'I want your power', and as said earlier she could've been genuinely concerned about the havoc Wanda would wreak on the world. Real wasted opportunity just having her be the cackling evil witch in the last ep, imo. (Yeah she was cackling in Agatha All Along but I figured that was just heightened reality for the sitcom effect

She was cackling evil but even in the last ep she is deathly afraid of what Wanda will become.

I mean it's totally possible Vision's possessions were rounded up by SWORD and they mailed the letter to Wanda or something after she came back (which in turn is possibly how she learned they had his body). But there was no evidence to suggest the letter was a fake and Hayward specifically used it to make her go overboard with her powers for unexplained reasons. No one, including Wanda, knew her powers were capable of such things, so what's the logic there?

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I mean, wouldn't it also be possible that Vision just gave Wanda the plot when they were together in Infinity War? After they get ambushed in Scotland they pretty much go straight to Wakanda and there wouldn't really be time to stop and talk about New Jersey.

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Maybe Im giving Marvel too much credit? They usually are exceptionally good at tying plot together, so I have to assume Sword buzzing her in and showing her Visions body for no reason whatsoever was due to an evil plan and not one of the stupidest government actions of all time.

I would have to rewatch the scene, but if the goal was to not make her go crazy they made the wrong choice like 8 times in a row.

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She was going to get in whether they unlocked the door or not. If anything, denying her access was much more likely to result in her using her powers, and since she'd then be pissed off, she'd also be more likely to flat out take his body with her.

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mnkboy907 posted...

She was going to get in whether they unlocked the door or not. If anything, denying her access was much more likely to result in her using her powers, and since she'd then be pissed off, she'd also be more likely to flat out take his body with her.

Didnt the Sword guy say she stole the body, which turned out to be a complete lie?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRkLLkpL5oY

"Am _I_ secretly Mephisto?" lol

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masterplum posted...

Didnt the Sword guy say she stole the body, which turned out to be a complete lie?

You're right, I do recall him showing either Monica or Darcy the footage of her blasting through the glass wall. I'd have to rewatch it, but that part seems odd now.

But again, he still couldn't know Wanda was capable of doing what she did, so I still don't see the logic of where he'd be setting her up for something? And since the show ended without touching up on that, I think it's safe to assume that was never the case. Maybe there was a deleted scene or something that shows what he was doing with White Vision wasn't entirely above board, so he lied about Wanda stealing him to cover it up? Which still wouldn't entirely make sense since he still brought White Vision out anyway. Yeah I dunno, lol.

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The military building a weapon of visions capability would definitely turn some heads.

Yeah I thought Hayward had some master plan between goading Wanda and lying about her stealing the body, but I think the conclusion is he's just an idiot.

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Maybe he just lied to manipulate Monica into getting on board with his plan? Well whatever it was, Hayward still wasn't a very well written character.

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Grand Kirby posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRkLLkpL5oY

"Am _I_ secretly Mephisto?" lol

This guy is always on point.

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it's inexcusable how poorly written hayward is. i doubt even people who love the show can defend the writing for him.

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They really needed more at the end there to explain why he was even being arrested, and why Darcy was already so certain he was going to prison when she rammed into him. Did he go rogue with creating and unleashing White Vision, or was it simply because he kept firing even after Monica stepped in?

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I thought Wanda created Westview, then left to get Vision's body back? Because otherwise Vision wouldn't have been able to exist even temporarily when he left the bubble/cube (and it certainly wouldn't interest Hayward). White Vision was built from the data they had, because I think in the finale White Vision even mentions he has none of the original tech.

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RyoCaliente posted...

I thought Wanda created Westview, then left to get Vision's body back? Because otherwise Vision wouldn't have been able to exist even temporarily when he left the bubble/cube (and it certainly wouldn't interest Hayward). White Vision was built from the data they had, because I think in the finale White Vision even mentions he has none of the original tech.

They specifically showed her creating HexVision from nothing, and Hayward mentioned that theyd taken apart and rebuilt WhiteVision many times over the five years but couldnt power him on without a bit of Wandas power.

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mnkboy907 posted...

Did he go rogue with creating and unleashing White Vision, or was it simply because he kept firing even after Monica stepped in?

I think the former is what convinced Jimmy to call in the FBI, and the later is what Darcy thought he was going down for.

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mnkboy907 posted...

You're right, I do recall him showing either Monica or Darcy the footage of her blasting through the glass wall. I'd have to rewatch it, but that part seems odd now.

But again, he still couldn't know Wanda was capable of doing what she did, so I still don't see the logic of where he'd be setting her up for something? And since the show ended without touching up on that, I think it's safe to assume that was never the case. Maybe there was a deleted scene or something that shows what he was doing with White Vision wasn't entirely above board, so he lied about Wanda stealing him to cover it up? Which still wouldn't entirely make sense since he still brought White Vision out anyway. Yeah I dunno, lol.

He doctored the footage from what actually happened to paint wanda as the villain.

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mnkboy907 posted...

I mean it's totally possible Vision's possessions were rounded up by SWORD and they mailed the letter to Wanda or something after she came back (which in turn is possibly how she learned they had his body). But there was no evidence to suggest the letter was a fake and Hayward specifically used it to make her go overboard with her powers for unexplained reasons. No one, including Wanda, knew her powers were capable of such things, so what's the logic there?

Weirdly enough didn't Hayward suggest to Wanda she could do exactly that?

*checks back*

00:29:24
Wanda: "I just wanna bury him. That's all I want."
Hayward: "Are you sure?"
Wanda: "Excuse me?"
Hayward: "Not everyone has the kind of power that could bring their soulmate back online."

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GuessMyUserName posted...

Weirdly enough didn't Hayward suggest to Wanda she could do exactly that?

*checks back*

00:29:24
Wanda: "I just wanna bury him. That's all I want."
Hayward: "Are you sure?"
Wanda: "Excuse me?"
Hayward: "Not everyone has the kind of power that could bring their soulmate back online."

This scene felt so incredibly leading the witness that I figured it had to be intentional goading

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masterplum posted...

This scene felt so incredibly leading the witness that I figured it had to be intentional goading

He was trying to get her to bring him back to life, yes.

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GuessMyUserName posted...

Weirdly enough didn't Hayward suggest to Wanda she could do exactly that?

*checks back*

00:29:24
Wanda: "I just wanna bury him. That's all I want."
Hayward: "Are you sure?"
Wanda: "Excuse me?"
Hayward: "Not everyone has the kind of power that could bring their soulmate back online."

Yeah this part still really sticks out to me. How the hell would he know that or why even infer it? She's literally done nothing but move stuff with magical red energy and shoot magicky blasts up until that point. Oh and I guess read minds? Can she do that?

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I think because Vision's essentially dead due to the Mind Stone being ripped out and Wanda has Mind Stone based powers. It's a stretch, but it's not entirely impossible to think she might be able to specifically revive him.
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They could have already calculated that they needed wanda-like powers to at least recharge Vision, or they were hoping she'd find some spark of life that they could not.
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I guess. Kinda flimsy but we've already established that Hayward was very poorly written.

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yeah it could be a lot of things but it's just a frustrating thing to toss out there without actually addressing in any way

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Finished it 3 days late and I'm pretty underwhelmed. It was okay but they had so much more room to bot be standard and they just took the MCU standard option at every turn.

Like...the SWORD stuff being almost completely pointless (except for White Vision who then just peaced out), Monica only showing up to do nothing and set up something else, the Quicksilver bait-and-switch, the twins disappear (but will be back in a later Marvel movie , even Agatha was kind of wasted in the end...

I dunno. The other stuff was great. It just feels like they had a good show and then stapled some Iron Man 2 to it. I really wish this wasn't the first MCU show cause it feels like it has to unfairly bear that burden.

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