Poll of the Day > Were Avril Lavigne and Gwen Stefani's use of asian girls racist

(+) Yeah! (+)

What do you think?

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gonna need a LOT more context than that

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Tragic Kingdom was a pretty good album.

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Probably not but without context who knows?

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They definitely constituted cultural appropriation, though not in a particularly objectionable way. I wouldn't say they were at all racist, nor that they were otherwise mean-spirited or demeaning to the races involved.

I would, however, say that they were seething, festering masses of second-hand embarrassment and cringiness and that such abominations should never have been allowed to see the light of day.

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When they used them no, today probably.. we do live in sjw triggered leftist times.

FUCK YEAH LETS DO IT

https://youtu.be/LiaYDPRedWQ

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helIy posted...

FUCK YEAH LETS DO IT

https://youtu.be/LiaYDPRedWQ

Why did you wake the monster

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Avril's song Hello Kitty and its music video was designed specifically for the Asian market as they were her biggest sales contributor at that point in her career. The video got a ton of flak from western audiences who immediately labeled it racist whereas the reception from the asian market it was aiming for was all around positive.

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adjl posted...

They definitely constituted cultural appropriation

Considering that Avril is beloved in Japan for that usage, the claim that it's cultural appropriation -- when you're talking about Hello Kitty in the first place -- is laughable for any number of reasons.

adjl posted...

I would, however, say that they were seething, festering masses of second-hand embarrassment and cringiness and that such abominations should never have been allowed to see the light of day.

Kinda engaging in some cultural oppression there, suggesting what the Japanese should think of an act they actually like >_> "Hello Kitty" made it to number TWO on Japan's Billboard charts but iirc never tracked in the USA.

https://www.businessinsider.com/avril-lavigne-is-huge-in-japan-2015-11

And, perhaps unsurprisingly, most of the "controversy" involved American publications and most of the critics were white.

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The sort of people that are perpetually outraged on behalf of others for woke points are usually the sort of people that would never buy the media they're bitching about in the first place.

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Gwen Stefanie made a whole album dedicated to Japanese culture because she loved it so much, she has a huge following in Japan, and people are wondering if that's racist? That's called segregation.

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xjayguyx posted...

When they used them no, today probably.. we do live in sjw triggered leftist times.

This.

WhiskeyDisk posted...

The sort of people that are perpetually outraged on behalf of others for woke points are usually the sort of people that would never buy the media they're bitching about in the first place.

and this.

People that want to find something wrong will usually find it, even if its only in their head. Then, theyll bitch to the high heavens and make a mountain out of a non existent mole hill.


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Zeus posted...

Considering that Avril is beloved in Japan for that usage, the claim that it's cultural appropriation -- when you're talking about Hello Kitty in the first place -- is laughable for any number of reasons.

It's making use of one culture to produce entertainment for another culture. That is - in the most literal sense - cultural appropriation. There's an argument to be made that the video was produced for Japan more so than for a Western audience, which would make that statement untrue, but otherwise, it is what it is.

As I said, though, it's not a particularly objectionable example of such appropriation. As much as the term gets used negatively by many people, I consider it to be pretty neutral on its own. Making any sort of value judgement about the appropriation in question relies on context and ts potential impact. Here, if anything, it's probably actually a positive example, given that the video was well received by Japanese audiences.

Zeus posted...

Kinda engaging in some cultural oppression there, suggesting what the Japanese should think of an act they actually like >_> "Hello Kitty" made it to number TWO on Japan's Billboard charts but iirc never tracked in the USA.

They can like whatever they want, but I'm going to continue thinking that it's painfully unwatchable garbage. That's the beauty of opinions.

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SpaceBear_ posted...

Why did you wake the monster

I FUCKIN LOVE THAT SONG

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adjl posted...

As I said, though, it's not a particularly objectionable example of such appropriation. As much as the term gets used negatively by many people, I consider it to be pretty neutral on its own.

If its only use is to block out people from hearing you then I don't think it has any use.

I can sit here and talk about how tourism has destroyed Hawaii's culture and no one would object, because it's a real topic I've heard firsthand from a Hawaiian native, but if I started talking about how we culturally appropriated a grass skirt then everyone's going to treat me like a PETA member... probably for good reason, because I'm watering down the concept of racism to apply to fashion sense. There are very few people who actually believe in cultural appropriation and very few that would find it convincing.

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No, cultural appropriation is not a real thing.

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xjayguyx posted...

When they used them no, today probably.. we do live in sjw triggered leftist times.

Basically this most of the time the words racism or racist pops up anywhere.

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adjl posted...

It's making use of one culture to produce entertainment for another culture. That is - in the most literal sense - cultural appropriation. There's an argument to be made that the video was produced for Japan more so than for a Western audience, which would make that statement untrue, but otherwise, it is what it is.

She used Japanese pop culture to produce entertainment for Japan. The only objection seems to be that she's white, which is racist at best.

More importantly, the definition concerns the "inappropriate adoption" of culture. The core objection in culturally appropriation has generally concerned the misuse of traditional concepts. rather than pop culture.

And, on the general subject, I should mention that there was little (or no) controversy or objection to Aqua -- a European band -- making a song about an important piece of American pop culture: Barbie. And that case actually involved the song being made for a foreign audience.

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I watched and listed to the song and music video for the first time and I don't find it racist or cultural appropriation. Lots of women of all cultures grew up with Hello kitty

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I think if this music video was released today, there would probably be immense outrage:

https://youtu.be/EDwb9jOVRtU

Doesn't personally offend me at all, but I could totally see people calling it racist and offensive.

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it was more cringe-inducing and bad than actually racist, ok?

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Ferarri619 posted...

Doesn't personally offend me at all, but I could totally see people calling it racist and offensive.

Now, now. Let's not refer to those oversensitive sub-human amoebas as "people."

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Out of all the "progressive" ideas this one along with fat acceptance are factually regressive.

Cultural Appropriation is actually anti-culture. The whole way the culture evolves and new ones are created is due to spread of culture and people adopting the ones they like and putting their own spin on it. Discouraging people from participating in a culture just because they have the wrong skin color is the very embodiment of GATEKEEPING.


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deoxxys posted...

Out of all the "progressive" ideas this one along with fat acceptance are factually regressive.

Cultural Appropriation is actually anti-culture. The whole way the culture evolves and new ones are created is due to spread of culture and people adopting the ones they like and putting their own spin on it. Discouraging people from participating in a culture just because they have the wrong skin color is the very embodiment of GATEKEEPING.

You'll notice that it's the same idiots who scream about cultural appropriation that believe in garbage like promoting diversity for the sake of diversity and not because diversity actually contributes anything constructive in anything.

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helIy posted...

FUCK YEAH LETS DO IT

https://youtu.be/LiaYDPRedWQ

Me likey
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helIy posted...

FUCK YEAH LETS DO IT

https://youtu.be/LiaYDPRedWQ

that was Corey Feldmans album level of bad

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I have only seen the stacie jaxx version of hello kitty
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idefYMHbcS8

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idk I'll have to ask Twitter and reddit what I think of this.

DirtBasedSoap posted...

that was Corey Feldmans album level of bad

That's just what happens when Avril does acid in Japan.

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Yeah, and that's why I smile
It's been a while
Since every day and everything has felt this right

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Zeus posted...

She used Japanese pop culture to produce entertainment for Japan.

adjl posted...

There's an argument to be made that the video was produced for Japan more so than for a Western audience, which would make that statement untrue

Oh hey look at that.

Zeus posted...

The only objection seems to be that she's white, which is racist at best.

More accurately, it relies on the assumption that all of her music is produced for a Western audience. If this was produced for Japanese more so than Western audiences, that assumption is incorrect and the position falls apart.

Zeus posted...

More importantly, the definition concerns the "inappropriate adoption" of culture. The core objection in culturally appropriation has generally concerned the misuse of traditional concepts. rather than pop culture.

Personally, I think assigning such connotations to it is a bad idea, compared to letting the term itself be more vague and relying on context, intent, and other nuances to determine whether the example in question is actually objectionable. One of the primary issues with the term is that it's so often used without elaborating on why it's a bad thing, which renders it largely meaningless to anyone that doesn't already agree with the sentiment.

Simply, "Is this cultural appropriation?" is a question that will have different answers depending on how people interpret the concept. "Is it bad to appropriate this piece of culture like this?", by comparison, is a question that fosters discussion and sharing of opinions based on the nuance of the scenario at hand (see: the parts of your conversation with me that aren't focusing on the term "cultural appropriation"), relying only on the simple dictionary definition of "appropriation" to limit misinterpretation. Much more sensible.

Yellow posted...

I can sit here and talk about how tourism has destroyed Hawaii's culture and no one would object, because it's a real topic I've heard firsthand from a Hawaiian native, but if I started talking about how we culturally appropriated a grass skirt then everyone's going to treat me like a PETA member... probably for good reason, because I'm watering down the concept of racism to apply to fashion sense. There are very few people who actually believe in cultural appropriation and very few that would find it convincing.

As much as it affects people's response to what you're saying, what you call it doesn't actually change what it is. You can say that you don't want to throw on a grass skirt and go to a luau because you don't like what tourism has done to Hawaii's culture and don't want to participate in that, and while you won't get nearly the same reaction from angry anti-SJW types, you are saying you don't want to appropriate their culture for your own entertainment.

deoxxys posted...

Discouraging people from participating in a culture just because they have the wrong skin color is the very embodiment of GATEKEEPING.

I personally treat it less like discouraging people from participating in a culture and more making an effort to be aware and considerate of how that culture is treated by myself and others. As long as you're being considerate and making a genuine effort to understand where the material is coming from, I don't see a problem with it.

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adjl posted...

you are saying you don't want to appropriate their culture for your own entertainment.

I'm not saying that. I love to appropriate culture for my own entertainment. I appropriate Japanese language all the time, I appropriate their humor and their shows, and botch it a lot like a dumb foreigner, because I too want to be part of another culture.

And am I not part of Japanese culture anyway? Why do you get to tell me I'm not a part of another culture?

And "what it means" literally, means what it means 99% of the time it's used, the same way Americans are referring to people in the US despite meaning several continents. What cultural appropriation means is a common theme of demonizing white people;

https://www.bustle.com/p/7-things-you-might-not-realize-are-cultural-appropriation-that-are-60679

Authentic Food and Appropriation
I as a white person am not worthy of grocery store knockoffs of foreign foods, and this is a bigger problem than the fact that all that food came from the meat industry that appropriated pigs into tiny boxes. The true virtue signalling. (remember when overstepping activists actually made good points?)

Using a Blaccent
Poor white people using the dialect they grew up with. Racism. Cool.

Chopsticks In Hair As A Celebration of Asian Culture
Misusing chop sticks as a white person is morally wrong.

Looks That Borrow Black Hairstyles
White people are not worthy of using hairstyles that black people have come up with.

Honoring Other Cultures Through Stereotypic Depictions of Them
Gwen Stefanie can't make an album dedicated to Japanese people because she is not worthy of Japanese culture if it's not done perfectly. Otherwise this is hurtful.

Sorry, I grew up in a cult, I can smell softcore cults from a mile away, even if you can't. They revolve around coming up with nonsensical rules and shaming others for not following them.

For example I come from a line of Germans and we do octoberfest every year. I have zero say in how anyone wants to do Oktoberfest, folk music, not fucking sorry. No one owns culture. And for the record, Americans have completely and utterly botched it. Cool. Good thing they're having fun instead of listening to someone else who has no right to tell them what to adopt in their own culture or how to do it. Of course no one freaks out about that, because we treat Germans like fellow white people, not disabled colored people.

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weeb
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

weeb

Literally have never watched an anime except attack on titan.

Maybe I would morally be a better person if I studied the culture of anime before "culturally appropriating" it.

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I mean, should I get more angry than the Japanese actresses/singers that were paid to be there, knew what they were doing, and at any time could have walked away?

No? Then I don't consider it racist.

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Yellow posted...

Literally have never watched an anime except attack on titan.

Maybe I would morally be a better person if I studied the culture of anime before "culturally appropriating" it.

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