Board 8 > Are Visual Novels even video games?

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://youtu.be/ptVOu2lbL6Y

never

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always
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non-visual novel = a book in braille, or perhaps an audiobook

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No. Sure you do make some choices but when you make like 4 choices in 2 hours can it really be count?

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They're video-game-adjacent, like board games or LARPing.

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th3l3fty posted...

always

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Visual novels without gameplay are basically stories told through the medium of video game text cutscenes. So I guess they're still in that medium even though they aren't games.

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stuff like fate/stay night is closer to anime/manga than video games

phoenix wright slightly leans more toward game
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Can I buy it at Gamestop or Steam and plug it into my game system?

Then it's a video game. I try to be simple where it counts.

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Sure why not, they're minimalist and they serve a pretty specific subculture, but they're clearly sprouted from gaming's family tree and gatekeeping is for dorks

th3l3fty posted...

always

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If they aren't games then what are they

They're closer to games than any other genre

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Define Visual Novel first.

Is Ace Attorney a Visual Novel?

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yes

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Leonhart4 posted...

If they aren't games then what are they

They're closer to games than any other genre

They are visual novels (VNs).

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I would say they technically are

But in practice, no.

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Raka_Putra posted...

They are visual novels (VNs).

That is a subcategory

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Sitting there reading for the entire 'game' is not a game in my opinion.

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My favorite game is The Canterbury Tales.

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i think a fair comparison might be a CYOA book, which i wouldn't call a game. or maybe like that black mirror episode (which to be fair i haven't watched myself) - is that a video game?

(edit) looks like someone mentioned BM, but in a different topic!
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SeabassDebeste posted...

i think a fair comparison might be a CYOA book, which i wouldn't call a game. or maybe like that black mirror episode (which to be fair i haven't watched myself) - is that a video game?

(edit) looks like someone mentioned BM, but in a different topic!

CYOAs are games, but not video games.

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Leonhart4 posted...

That is a subcategory

For Novels ya

Depends.

Does it have some form of gameplay somewhere? Can you fail?
If the answer is yes to both, ala Phoenix Wright, then yes.

If the answer is no to either, ala Every Single Kinetic VN ever, the answer is no.

It must first meet the qualification of being a game, before it can fall into the category of being a video game.

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Most of the best games ever made are visual novels.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Most of the best games ever made are visual novels.

This is an amazing take, even for Board 8.

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I tend to think of visual novels as their own medium but I also don't think it particularly matters how we classify them.
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It's a game on video. Yes, yes it is.

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SolidDBZ posted...

It's a game on video. Yes, yes it is.

Not every VN is a game though.
Kinetic VNs are a thing.

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redrocket posted...

This is an amazing take, even for Board 8.

Well, what I personally consider the best games obviously.

The only VN that seems to hold any weight at all is Steins Gate.

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No. The fact that it's media consumed on a digital device doesn't make it a game.

I don't see any other reason to define them as games.

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Not really, they're more like (overpriced?) choose-your-adventure digital books than a proper video game. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but as there is virtually no gameplay, you can't exactly state that they're good or bad games, but rather good or bad stories.

If one complains on modern games focusing too much on story and cinematics, and yet praises VN's as his or her favorite genre, it would come of as a double standard to me.

Umineko cost me under $40 earlier this year and was over $100 of playtime that surpassed most games ever made in enjoyment.

"Overpriced" is a pretty ridiculous statement. RE3 make was a full priced game and was a 5 hour rehash of the game from a year ago.

Was Black Mirror: Bandersnatch a video game?

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Umineko cost me under $40 earlier this year and was over 100 hours of playtime that surpassed most games ever made in enjoyment.

"Overpriced" is a pretty ridiculous statement. RE3 make was a full priced game and was a 5 hour rehash of the game from a year ago.

This. AI: The Somnium Files was worth every cent of the $40 I spent on it. Better than 90% of the games I've played in the past decade, as well.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Umineko cost me under $40 earlier this year and was over 100 hours of playtime that surpassed most games ever made in enjoyment.

"Overpriced" is a pretty ridiculous statement. RE3 make was a full priced game and was a 5 hour rehash of the game from a year ago.

As metaIslug states, Umineko isn't really a game. If you compare to actual CYOA books, you'll find that VN's are typically far more expensive, sometimes being double or even triple the price of an average CYOA book. I've seen CYOA collections go for $40, compared to just one VN game.

Go ahead and praise Umineko as a piece of fiction all you like, you can't really call it a game though.

They're games. The opinion that they aren't games isn't even really worth acknowledging.

Basically, claiming they aren't games is the anti-Vax or climate change denial of video games. Laugh and move on.

Here's how I look at it.

If you were to walk into a dedicated book store that doesn't sell movies or games would they have visual novels?

And if you walk into a game store that doesn't sell books or movies would they sell visual novels?

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

They're games. The opinion that they aren't games isn't even really worth acknowledging.

Basically, claiming they aren't games is the anti-Vax or climate change denial of video games. Laugh and move on.

I remember when children started getting sick and dying because their parents said that visual novels weren't video games

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Those were dark times.

Some are and some aren't, I would say. But even the ones that aren't are obviously using the general medium and presentation of video games to convey their stories.

Japan has actually always had a pretty clear distinction between these. Over there, "Visual Novel" typically refers to a story with minimal interaction - just choices - or even no interaction at all. Stuff that has actual gameplay, puzzle solving or other heavy kinds of interaction like Steins;Gate, Ace Attorney, Danganronpa, Utawarerumono etc etc etc are known as "Adventure Games."

For some reason, everywhere else in the world except the place where most of these games come from, we just use "visual novel" as a catch-all and lump all these pretty different experiences into the same basket.

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Who is the target demographic for visual novels? People who play games or people who read books?

Also why does it matter if it's classified as a video game?

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

They're games. The opinion that they aren't games isn't even really worth acknowledging.

Basically, claiming they aren't games is the anti-Vax or climate change denial of video games. Laugh and move on.

Now that's a funny take. You're coming off to me as rather defensive.

Look at the TC's video. Where's the gameplay? There isn't any. All I see is text and an anime girl. Dragon's Lair comes off to me as more of a game than that.

I remember The Order: 1886 getting criticized for having too much cinematics and very limited actual gameplay. Imagine if the gameplay to that game was replaced by even more cinematics. Are you still going to call it a video game just because it was released on PS4? Would you consider Nintendo's 100 Classic Book Collection on the DS a video game when in reality it's an e-book collection?

I'm not trying to knock on your genre, I'm just telling it how it is. You like VN's? Great for you. But you can't really call them games if all you're doing just reading text for hours and making an occasional choice.

Nintendogs posted...

The earth is flat

Xiahou Shake posted...

puzzle solving or other heavy kinds of interaction like Steins;Gate

Steins;Gate isn't a pure VN? What kind of gameplay does it have?
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the real video game is making sure nobody besmirches the good name of a True Video Game with imposters

BlackMageJawa posted...

Steins;Gate isn't a pure VN? What kind of gameplay does it have?

Choices to determine the route you're on

It's more of a CYOA than a puzzle game.
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