Board 8 > transience's top 100 games -- please insert disc 2.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I thought Samus Returns was pretty great.

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ZaziGuado posted...

I consider getting the Veni Vidi Vici in VVVVVV trinket is one of my greatest having achievements.

Hmm, yeah, it's probably in my top 5, maybe #3. I know #1 is all the B and C sides in Celeste, and #2 is all gold license tests in the original Gran Turismo.

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been reading this from the start, has been lots of fun. excellent work as always! I'm always struck when I read your lists that we seem to have very similar tastes, but I doubt I've played more than a quarter of these. definitely gives me a nice list of stuff to eventually check out! (says the guy who plays about one new game a year)

[update: just checked and, ignoring FF and PW games, i have played a grand total of six of these so far. ha.]

VVVVVV isn't a game that immediately comes to mind when I consider my all-time favourites but it's on the very short list of games that I quite frequently want to just boot up and play these days, which probably says a lot. it's pretty close to flawless at what it does.

also, maybe I just don't think of "challenge" in the same way as most people, but I don't consider Doing Things the Hard Way (Veni Vidi Vici) to be that tough. sure, I'll die 50-100 times trying it every playthrough, but it's persistence that eventually gets me through, not skill. if you pushed me for a really hot take I might even claim the Edge Games trinket is harder from a skill perspective!

p. s. props on the numbered final fantasy rankings - ignoring your endearing love affair for the original, I definitely didn't expect X to be top tier for you alongside VI and IX, but over time those are the three that stand out the most to me too.

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hey there giggs! I was ever so slightly peeved when you didnt tag me for your end of year lists the other day!

not sure if I totally believe this, but I think the hardest trinket might be the one where you have to go several rooms without touching a save point. that one is super interesting and its one of the only challenges that actually has more than a few movements to it in the game.

anyway, looks like a bunch of lists have popped up over the last few days so I better get this thing finished!

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Man I'm super late to this but this is definitely a transience list. I dig it. Quick thoughts:

- Whoa, Hollow Knight? I thought you thought that was a mediocre game. Glad to see it must have grown on you.

- Braid way too low. I'm just going to pretend Braid and Inside switched places. Inside was kinda whatever to me. Cool atmosphere and puzzles but probably wouldn't even crack my top 100. Think I had way too high expectations for it, and it's largely because of people hyping up that ending like you did in your write-up! Maybe I'm weird, but I just found that to be like any other part of the game and not anything that crazy. And then you roll on to the beach and never in my life have I shouted "that's it?" as loudly as I did at the end of that game. Jonathan Blow pulls off these ambiguous endings with far more class.

- Ew Portrait of Ruin over Dawn of Sorrow! Honestly that might be a good call if I replayed them, but DoS was my introduction to the series and then I played like every single game in that series. So the first experience just sticks out so much more for me.

- Super Mario Odyssey, now that is a goddamn video game. I'm actually glad I didn't experience that game as a child, because it was so magical it just straight up warped me back to my childhood. Felt like I was playing (a much better) Super Mario 64 for the first time again.

- F-Zero GX in the top 20? That might be my new favorite thing about this list. I'm proud of younger me for having the persistence to beat every Story mode chapter on Very Hard (fuck you, Chapter 7), but it's not something I think I'd do again!

Okay I have more to say but I feel caught up! Man, I really should play AM2R one of these days though. I also quite liked Samus Returns, but AM2R straight up look like it's in another league.

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I don't like a lot of Samus Returns but it's totally fine. I just like AM2R so much more and it looks bad in comparison.

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transcience posted...

hey there giggs! I was ever so slightly peeved when you didnt tag me for your end of year lists the other day!

not sure if I totally believe this, but I think the hardest trinket might be the one where you have to go several rooms without touching a save point. that one is super interesting and its one of the only challenges that actually has more than a few movements to it in the game.

anyway, looks like a bunch of lists have popped up over the last few days so I better get this thing finished!

hahaha my deepest apologies! I'm conscious of trying to not annoy people who don't care about my lists, so I tried to only tag people who usually respond (like, comment, etc). I guess you hadn't for a while, it's absolutely nothing personal!

also I'm with Blur (hey man!), I was surprised to see braid so low. I probably just don't play enough games, but I'm not sure I've ever played a puzzler that felt as cleverly constructed as that one. recommendations welcome!

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oh I totally understand! the other day I opened up my facebook memories, about the only thing I do on facebook anymore, and it was "3 years ago, giggs's list", "4 years ago, giggs's list", "6 years ago, giggs's list" and it became this weird tradition in my head.

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Yeah, Samus Returns doesn't focus on fluid movement quite the way the likes of Zero Mission and presumably AM2R do, so I can imagine it wouldn't be your favorite Metroid. Best parts of that game were probably the bosses and the wonderful atmosphere/music of the Chozo Laboratory. Oh and whatever the hell that 100% tease was

Braid seriously does have the best puzzles I've ever played in a game. Funny enough, The Witness might be the only thing that comes close.

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Samus Returns is so incredibly tone deaf that I have to believe the devs didn't understand what they were doing or what the point of Metroid is. but, you get to the section with space jump and it actually becomes incredibly fun. I'll probably never play it again but it's not awful.

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16.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0xm3Oteai8

1998
PS1

FFT is an all around good game, from the story to the music to the characters. I dont want to give those aspects of the game the short end of the stick because theyre really excellent. This game has a great storyline with likable protagonists and a soundtrack to match the medieval setting perfectly.

But ultimately, Im a job system guy above all things. Im here because FFT has really fun class builds with great skills and fantastic progression. Its ridiculously fun to build out your characters. Mixing and matching classes and skills on each character is a certain level of micromanagement that I get super deep into. The other stuff makes it a good game, but FFT is ultimately defined by taking a squad of no-names and turning them into nuclear weapons.

In fact, the games weakest point is when you get to chapter 4 and youve basically completed each characters class destiny. Once your auto-potioning Lancer is jumping from across the screen and countering enemies with Hamedo, youre pretty much done and are just grinding your way down the final dungeon. FFT has very good base gameplay but its not the same without that addicting progression.

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Love FFT, but I've never cared about the job system. I did a Geomancer SCC the last time I played several years ago though, and that was fun.


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those SCCs aren't my jam, but it's mostly because you don't really get to play with the job system. I get to chapter 3 or so and then get bored.

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15.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT5D3pNw8qM

1988
NES + a billion collections

Mega Man 9 is a better game. Mega Man 2 has some pretty dumb game design decisions, like the Wily 4 boss thats impossible if you dont have full or near full crash bombs (which could mean you dying on purpose multiple times to recharge), or that ridiculous stretch of disappearing blocks in Heat Mans stage. Its clear that they were still ironing out the kinks of the series back in 1988.

Mega Man 2 just has this fun factor to it though. Its so damn enjoyable to jam through those levels. You dont need anything special to do it, just your mega buster and some decent 2d gaming skills. You see, Mega Man 2 really isnt that hard. The other games in the series treat difficulty as a badge of honor, but Mega Man 2 has the broken metal blade that cuts through enemies while using barely any weapon power. There are other weapons like quick boomerang that are also awesome, but why use them when youve got the metal blade? (The answer is, because its fun.)

The stages are honestly not very tough, but still really enjoyable to run through. You can zip through most of the boss fights and beat this in a sitting without much trouble. Mega Man 9 is also really fun, but it isnt as enjoyable to just cruise through like Mega Man 2 is.

Also, this game has some killer music - the best of the series.

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Yeah, I don't know that I'd do another one, but it was fun for one time.

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Another controversial opinion: Mega Man 10 has the best music.

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Mega Man 2 was good times. Quick Man's stage is the worst though.

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Mega Man 2 has my favorite soundtrack of any video game ever, and I sometimes find myself at a loss to explain just how important a factor that is to me

I really need to read this.

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14.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw47_q9wbBE

2017
Switch, Wii U

The best thing about Breath of the Wild is that I never know what detour Im going to take. Theres something immensely satisfying about just wandering around that world. Ill start out on a journey to find a distant shrine that I had marked on my map several hours earlier, only while heading there, Ill find a hill and wonder if theres anything up there. A hill leads to a monster camp, which leads to a random traveler who gives me a quest that leads to another shrine, and suddenly Im a good ten minute walk from where I meant to go.

Its the simple things that Breath of the Wild does so well. Its the climbing. Its the paraglider, the greatest invention in the series 30 year run. Its the feeling of climbing some endless mountain, wondering what you might find. Sometimes its a stupid korok seed. Sometimes its a new shrine. Sometimes its absolutely nothing, and thats great. Ill gladly paraglide from the top of that mountain because that feeling is untouchable.

Theres an aimlessness and an ambiance to Breath of the Wild that totally gets me. Most Zeldas treat the games dungeons as the highlight but Breath of the Wild lets the game world do the talking. Thats always been my preference in these games. The dungeons in this game are largely junk anyway.

Its hard to make just wandering across a huge open space seem interesting, and I couldnt tell you exactly why it appeals in this game compared to all of the other large overworlds and desolate landscapes in video games. All I know is that I can lose hours upon hours just finding out what might be over that hill in Breath of the WIld.

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I loved Breath of the Wild, and I preferred the simplicity of its sandbox world. It didn't overwhelm me with a million marks on the map and making it feel like there's no way I could ever do all this. Like you, I just enjoyed gliding around seeing what was over there in the distance. One of the best things about BOTW's world is that if you can see it, you can get to it.

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Mega Man 2 is obviously great, though exactly where I rank it compared to the other Mega Man games varies. It gets a lot of credit for executing a very solid game (MM2's controls feel soo good compared to many NES platformers) and setting out the Mega Man formula so well. Yet obviously many other iterations on that formula (not all of them, but several anyway) are better executions of it: MM2 certainly has a few clunky stages: Quick Man is rote memorization, Crash has too much ladder-climbing (one underrated improvement is how MM3 sped up ladders), Heat has... not the best vanishing block implementation, and of course Wily 4 is terrible.

I still love the game to be clear! Just it's hard to know exactly where I would rate it on a list today, even compared to other games in its own series.

I haven't played AM2R, might give it a look sometime. I liked Samus Returns pretty well? Loved the omni-directional aiming in particular. It doesn't really measure up to Super or Fusion in terms of tone and atmosphere, but not much does IMO.

Obviously I second any and all FFT hype, and even agree with your criticism. It's just a game you can do so much with on replays, on top of being a great base experience. That job system is so, so good; I've played many job system games but few do what FFT does and also let you pick your abilities (for some reason FF5's "you get these abilities in this order" seems much more common) which is what the brings the customization to a new level. It's even better in hacks that smooth out the balance of these choices.

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13.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abo_Z3-5x9o

2012
PC, 360, PS3, Vita, PS4

On its face, Spelunky is a simple but devious roguelite platformer thats out to ruin you. Everything at every corner is basically gunning for you and the combination of those things will destroy an amateur spelunker before they can get a couple of levels in.

The first layer of this game is learning how to survive. Theres more there than a new player might think. You have to play Spelunky defensively, hyper-aware and with a significant sense of paranoia that something is about to kill you. Spelunky on its own isnt as hard as its reputation might suggest, but it is a cruel mistress. It will get you when youre least expecting it.

This game combines variables together in the most crushing of ways. Sometimes an enemy triggers a bomb offscreen which sends a rock flying across the screen which hits you and lands you on top of an altar which sacrifices you and oh hey youre dead. That stuff is hilarious, amazing, and part of the calculus that the player makes as they ever so slowly tiptoe across each level. Eventually you get good enough to move at a reasonable speed, but that paranoia never truly leaves a good Spelunky player.

Once you get competent enough at the game to understand its inner workings and how variables combine, the real game begins. Spelunky has layers upon layers of hidden stuff that is beyond esoteric. Just the other day, I learned that if you gather enough favor with Kali by sacrificing characters on the altar -- the more blood their bodies have, the more favor, apparently -- then you get an item that lets you collect the blood that falls off characters when they get hit, and if you drink enough blood itll increase your hp. I also learned that if you leave rubies laying on the ground and the end-of-level ghost passes over them, they turn into super valuable diamonds. Spelunky is loaded with all sorts of crazy minutia, from hidden levels to secret items to superbosses, that make it super duper replayable.

Im not especially good at Spelunky, but I love rolling the wheel of fate and seeing what crazy thing will happen to me this time.

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Breath of the Wild always struck me as an amazing blueprint for what could be done with a Zelda game in its engine. It relies entirely on the moment-to-moment of discovery, and that's really strong, but I feel it loses out to individualized challenges due to that. The Great Plateau and Cast Away: The Shrine definitely feel like the high points, as they're individualized challenges with multiple solutions that the player is required to overcome, but the required set pieces done in a more traditional style feel more obligatory than anything. Hyrule Castle is also way too short in some routes through it; I appreciate the moxie but think it coulda used at least a "you need two out of five keys to unlock the door to Ganon" or something.

It's a game where I feel the floor is high with pits when it tries to be traditional Zelda. Really excited for the sequel to patch those up; it'd be hard to screw it up, they already have all the pieces there.

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this isnt anything new but your take on mm2 lines up with mine 100%
there are better designed mega man games out there, but there's something about all the pieces (the music, the weapons, the flow of the game) that just adds up perfectly

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One day I will actually beat Breath of the Wild, it's just too easy to get distracted in that game though

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Breath of the Wild is so good. That BOTW2 announcement was so hype and I will explode if the next view we get builds on it.

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BotW is great (probably my second favorite after MM), but I'm not sure I want that style to be the new Zelda default. There's definitely some necessary sacrifice from giving you all of the abilities at the beginning (which you kinda need to do to let people explore the map in any order) rather than the typical progression of unlocking new upgrades every dungeon. (The dungeons in BotW were also a pretty big letdown compared to the rest of the game!)

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if there's still another FF game on your list that hasn't shown up yet, it's objectively wrong sorry

LordoftheMorons posted...

BotW is great (probably my second favorite after MM), but I'm not sure I want that style to be the new Zelda default. There's definitely some necessary sacrifice from giving you all of the abilities at the beginning (which you kinda need to do to let people explore the map in any order) rather than the typical progression of unlocking new upgrades every dungeon. (The dungeons in BotW were also a pretty big letdown compared to the rest of the game!)

I doubt it will but I also don't want it to be abandoned (after BOTW2 which presumably/hopefully/it better use the same style) either. They had something special there. I wouldn't mind if they went back-and-forth between the classic style and the BOTW style or something though I wonder if that would put too much stress on the team/prevent them from really focusing on and building on one style or the other.

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I figured Celeste would be on the list but it doesn't seem like you'd put it this high

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Yeah BotW2 is gonna be extremely interesting to follow.

How close do they stick to the first game I wonder.

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Reg posted...

if there's still another FF game on your list that hasn't shown up yet, it's objectively wrong sorry

Pretty certain he has the correct #1 FF (in which case it's still out)...!

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xp1337 posted...

I doubt it will but I also don't want it to be abandoned (after BOTW2 which presumably/hopefully/it better use the same style) either. They had something special there. I wouldn't mind if they went back-and-forth between the classic style and the BOTW style or something though I wonder if that would put too much stress on the team/prevent them from really focusing on and building on one style or the other.

Oh yeah I'm definitely excited about BotW2. I just don't want this to be the permanent style forever at the expense of the classic formula!

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Still time for FFVIII to show up...!

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thatll be the day

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i have 10 games i'm almost certain will be on here and there's only 12 left. let's get to that top 10 so i can stop racking my brain on what i'm missing

my wildcard guesses for the last two spots - xenosaga 3 and tetris 99

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Xenosaga 3 definitely will be there.

as it should be

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now I want to see what you think are locks! Ill get 11 in when Im home

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xp1337 posted...

Xenosaga 3 definitely will be there.

as it should be

it's a wildcard because of how high we are

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my LOCKS are, roughly ordered:

dragon warrior monsters
dq8
pw3
metroid zero mission
ff5
celeste
n++
ori and the blind forest
super metroid
xenogears

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I admit we actually have reached the point where we're far enough I'm getting a bit worried that it hasn't shown up!

but i have faith

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yeah tran replayed it this year iirc and he used to adore it but i'm not sure if he's "maybe the best ps2 rpg" in love with it

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FFV is the second most respectable FF to have as your favorite, after VIII.

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Your Chrono Trigger entry convinced me to give it another go. I started it a couple of times in the past but only got 2-3 hours into it before.

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12.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhMcA_pGTPQ

2006
PS2

Xenosaga 1 isnt a very good game for numerous reasons, and Xenosaga 2 is too short and weird to love. But they do a hell of a job setting up Xenosaga 3, where everything rolls downhill. Theres no need for lengthy soliloquies on robotic consciousness or whatever other nonsense Xenosaga can throw at you here.

The Xenosaga universe is ludicrous to the point that I couldnt actually coherently explain the plot of this series, but the tone and feeling of the games is enough for me. Guys fight and the game climaxes and its great. The amazing soundtrack helps - the power of the music really carries this game to high heights.

But weirdly enough, its the gameplay that I can really get behind in Xenosaga 3. Its fairly straightforward but I like building my guys and the environments are really enjoyable to explore, especially Miltia, the central point of the entire series. XS3 pulls off an ambitious 8 hour flashback sequence to explain the root of the conflict. There are other areas that are really fun to exist in too, largely because the music is so good.

The ending of this game is pretty.. well, this is from the Xenogears team, so it follows that the end will feel rushed and unsatisfying. I dont mind that too much though. Im not playing Xenosaga to get some neatly wrapped up conclusion about space jesus and a Nietzschean supercomputer. I just like seeing the crazy stuff happen and hanging on for the ride.

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two tiers left.

100. hacknet
99. braid
98. batman: arkham asylum
97. super meat boy
96. portal
95. world of goo
94. hollow knight
93. super mario world
92. mega man maker
91. ace attorney 2
90. zelda: majora's mask

89. xenoblade chronicles x
88. monument valley
87. dragon warrior
86. mega man 3
85. castlevania: dawn of sorrow
84. nier: automata
83. we love katamari
82. zelda: link to the past
81. lethal league
80. half-minute hero 2
79. mike tyson's punch out!!
78. god of war 2
77. wolfenstein 2: the new colossus
76. super smash bros ultimate

75. binding of isaac
74. final fantasy 7
73. super hexagon
72. crystalis
71. suikoden
70. ace attorney 5
69. etrian odyssey 5
68. dragon warrior monsters 2
67. crypt of the necrodancer
66. dragon quest 3
65. final fantasy 4
64. actraiser
63. shadow hearts 2

62. persona 4 golden
61. metroid fusion
60. mega man 11
59. castle crashers
58. ace attorney investigations 2
57. street fighter 2
56. shadow complex
55. persona 5
54. zelda 1
53. holedown

52. final fantasy 9
51. final fantasy 6
50. castlevania: portrait of ruin
49. final fantasy 10
48. bleed
47. brothers: a tale of two sons
46. geometry wars 2
45. inside

44. slay the spire
43. super mario odyssey
42. street fighter 4
41. ace attorney 6
40. life is strange
39. tales of maj'eyal
38. etrian odyssey 4
37. dicey dungeons
36. the messenger

35. ace attorney
34. banished
33. tactics ogre: let us cling together
32. bleed 2
31. shadow hearts
30. dragon quest 11
29. ikaruga

28. persona 3 portable
27. the walking dead
26. outland
25. mega man 9
24. final fantasy
23. desert golfing
22. cave story
21. xenoblade

20. chrono trigger
19. f-zero gx
18. am2r
17. vvvvvv
16. final fantasy tactics
15. mega man 2
14. zelda: breath of the wild
13. spelunky
12. xenosaga 3

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i haven't touched those games since they came out

but i do have a profile for XS1 set up in PCSX2 for if the mood ever strikes me

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I want to play XS1 and 2 again just to see if my feelings stay the same. it's been nearly a decade. I do like XS2 and I bet a replay might sneak it into the bottom of this list.

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