Board 8 > transience's top 100 games -- please insert disc 2.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mega Man is an action-platformer, which I think is a good distinction to make between it and something like Contra (more of a pure "action" or run-and-gun) or DKC (pure "platformer").

There should be an academic field dedicated to this.

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Mega Man is totally a platformer. Maybe not the same type as Mario but there are many, many times in MM where the main obstacle is the environment and not the enemies.
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I do that with puzzle games. puzzle has at least two very unique definitions within the same word: games like Tetris or Dr. Mario, and then games like Braid or Limbo. I go with puzzle for Tetris and action puzzle for Braid.

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It never occurred to me that someone might not consider Mega Man a platformer. I feel like I've introduced my gaming tastes with "I like platformers, like Mario and Mega Man" many times and never even been questioned on that statement.

As far as I'm concerned, if jumping is a major part of the gameplay, it's a platformer. Mega Man: yes. Devil May Cry: no.

Odyssey is interesting because I'm not sure I consider its gameplay that important, so I can see calling it some sort of exploration/adventure game instead... I kinda felt like sometimes I was playing a Zelda variant and sometimes I was playing a platformer. Meanwhile Galaxy is unquestionably a platformer.

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I'm honestly fine with calling Mega Man a platformer - I can go either way there. Mega Man certainly has a large platforming focus.

going down that path though - is Cave Story a platformer? I guess Bionic Commando would be despite lacking a jump button? what about Bleed or VVVVVV? I'm not sure where the dividing line is.

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I would categorize VVVVVV as a platformer despite not having a dedicated jump button.

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Also I'm playing Ori and the Blind Forest again. The lack of clear direction in these style of games is kind of frustrating because I feel like I'm just aimlessly wandering around hoping I don't miss the cue to find the next area.

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Ori has a pretty clear direction, I would say. you don't get mega lost in it anyway. moreso than a Super Metroid.

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I mean the game is telling me where I need to go

I'm just not finding a way to actually get there so it makes me think I've missed some sort of ability or something who knows

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what was your last power up? are you jumping in after weeks away?

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Yeah, I haven't played in a few weeks. I think the last power-up I got was the dash. I'm supposed to go to the Ginso Tree next. The game keeps showing me stompable floors on the map so I'm wondering if maybe I missed that or something.

oh there we go I think I figured it out

I guess I needed to complain about it first

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the dash actually wasn't in the original game. they added that after the fact in the definitive edition, along with some other features.

you're probably trying to get the double jump. the game really unlocks once you get that.

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Yeah, I feel like the double jump would make a huge difference because there's so much stuff just out of reach right now. It's definitely a charming game with a solid atmosphere so far.

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yeah, the double jump and then the ability you get in the ginso tree is where that game really shines. hope you get there!

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Aaaaaand double jump get aw yeah

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And now I've got the bash attack and immediately they're changing the way this game is played

this is incredible

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Ori before bash and Ori after bash is like two different games. now you're into the good stuff.

just wait for the end here

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okay, I ran some numbers on my top 100 list. I ran them separately for top 100, top 50, top 25 and top 10 to see how they change depending on how much I like them.

by decade:

top 100: '10s - 47%, '00s - 30%, '90s - 18%, '80s - 5%
top 50: '10s - 52%, '00s - 30%, '90s - 14%, '80s - 4%
top 25: '10s - 36%, '00s - 32%, '90s - 24%, '80s - 8%
top 10: '10s - 30%, '00s - 30%, '90s - 30%, '80s - 10%

top 10 by decade ('80s only has 5):

80s:

7. tetris
15. mega man 2
54. zelda 1
79. mike tyson's punch out!!
87. dragon warrior

90s:

1. xenogears
4. super metroid
6. final fantasy 5
16. final fantasy tactics
20. chrono trigger
24. final fantasy
33. tactics ogre: let us cling together
51. final fantasy 6
57. street fighter 2
64. actraiser

00s:

5. metroid: zero mission
8. ace attorney 3
10. dragon quest 8
11. dragon warrior monsters
12. xenosaga 3
19. f-zero gx
22. cave story
25. mega man 9
29. ikaruga
31. shadow hearts

10s:

2. celeste
3. n++
9. ori and the blind forest
13. spelunky
14. zelda: breath of the wild
17. vvvvvv
18. am2r
21. xenoblade
23. desert golfing
26. outland

by region:

top 100: japan - 61%, not japan - 39%
top 50: japan - 58%, not japan - 42%
top 25: japan - 68%, not japan - 32%
top 100: japan - 60%, not japan - 40%

top genres (note: I changed mega man and games similar to them to platformers):

top 100: rpg - 26%, platformer - 13%, metroidvania - 9%, adventure - 9%, roguelike - 6%
top 50: rpg - 26%, platformer - 16%, metroidvania - 10%, adventure - 10%, roguelike - 8%
top 25: rpg - 32%, platformer - 20%, metroidvania - 16%, puzzle - 8%, six tied at 4%
top 10: rpg - 30%, metroidvania - 30%, platformer - 20%, adventure - 10%, puzzle - 10%

top developers:

(note: I list dragon quest as enix regardless of the square enix merger since they essentially operate separately and it keeps things neat within a series. monolithsoft is also listed separately from nintendo.)

top 100: nintendo - 12%, capcom - 12%, square - 10%, enix - 6%, atlus - 5%
top 50: square - 12%, capcom - 12%, nintendo - 10%, enix - 6%, four tied at 4%
top 25: square - 20%, nintendo - 16%, capcom - 12%, monolithsoft - 8%, enix - 8%
top 10: square - 20%, nintendo - 20%, 6 tied at 10%

I would love to do top gaming platforms but the data is a mess because of so many rereleases and, in later years, games coming out everywhere. I spent some time trying to clean it up but it's either dogmatically sticking to the first release of a game only or the later gens absolutely clean up. even if you were to exclude rereleases, the playstation and xbox platforms end up looking 90% the same anyway and clutter the leaderboard. also, the pc completely dominates for obvious reasons.

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transience posted...

I would love to do top gaming platforms but the data is a mess because of so many rereleases and, in later years, games coming out everywhere. I spent some time trying to clean it up but it's either dogmatically sticking to the first release of a game only or the later gens absolutely clean up. even if you were to exclude rereleases, the playstation and xbox platforms end up looking 90% the same anyway and clutter the leaderboard. also, the pc completely dominates for obvious reasons.

IMO the most interesting way to do it would just be the platform that you first played the game on, or else the version you like most.

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nah, that would just show my bias more than anything. it'd end up having like 15 games on 360 and none on ps3, or 10 games on ps4 and none on xbox one.

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Climb skill get

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how'd the ginso tree escape go? that might be the highlight of the game.

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It probably took me close to a dozen tries, but it was definitely tense and my heart was racing the whole way.

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yeah that's the kind of boss fight you'll get in Ori

ginso tree is all about teaching you how to use bash, and then at the end it gives you a final exam

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Ginso Tree is one of the decade's highlights in gaming.

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Well, I'm at the Forlorn Ruins now.

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I don't want to steal anagram's thunder with another Ace Attorney playthrough topic, but I will let you all know that I beat case #2 and I totally did not expect that to take me half the flight from NY to LA.

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its one of the shortest cases too. the biggest cases are upwards of 10 hours in this series

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Yeah, PW1 is a breeze time-wise compared to other games in the series.

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transience posted...

it's one of those things where I only do it because I love the game dearly. I wouldn't do it on just any old game.

though... I do have a bit of a fetish for really painfully hard 2d platformers, as you can probably tell. it's why Mario World just fails to move the needle for me at this point.

have you ever tried slime-San? It sounds right up your alley

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I haven't played it. to be honest, there are so many hard indie platformers that I don't go out of my way to find them. a lot of them are really lo-fi or don't really have a good sense of style or whatever. Celeste and N and VVVVVV and Ori and all those kinds of games all have a really strong musical score and a real strong look about them. for all the ones I like, there are a bunch, like Momodora or IWBTG or 1000 spikes or whatever that I just don't really like at all.

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transcience posted...

its one of the shortest cases too. the biggest cases are upwards of 10 hours in this series

Jesus.

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

I don't want to steal anagram's thunder with another Ace Attorney playthrough topic, but I will let you all know that I beat case #2 and I totally did not expect that to take me half the flight from NY to LA.

get strapped in, they only get longer from here!
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transience posted...

I haven't played it. to be honest, there are so many hard indie platformers that I don't go out of my way to find them. a lot of them are really lo-fi or don't really have a good sense of style or whatever. Celeste and N and VVVVVV and Ori and all those kinds of games all have a really strong musical score and a real strong look about them. for all the ones I like, there are a bunch, like Momodora or IWBTG or 1000 spikes or whatever that I just don't really like at all.

Momodora is a Castlevania game

(and better than Ori, too!)

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Ive only played I think 4 but I didnt like it at all. I was real bad at it too

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Do you get more "skilled" as these cases progress? In case 2 I basically figured out the mystery right away but kept fucking up with presenting the evidence at the exact right time. But is that something my brain will just learn with each new case?

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You kinda figure out the logic of the series as you go, yeah.

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Also if I remember right both those early cases directly show you who did it right at the beginning of the case, so you are able to connect the dots in ways the in-universe characters cant, leading to that problem of showing evidence before the correct time. They mostly stop doing that after that point.

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Do you get more "skilled" as these cases progress? In case 2 I basically figured out the mystery right away but kept fucking up with presenting the evidence at the exact right time. But is that something my brain will just learn with each new case?

to me, aa1's trials were pretty easy, aside from the awkward epilogue case. they'll probably get a little more intuitive, even though yeah there are times when there seem to be multiple obvious contradictions and only one piece of evidence triggers the right objection

aa2 and 3, and one aa1 case, are exceptionally hard, both in trial and in investigation. i'd give them your best shot, but don't kill yourself in frustration if you can't figure out the right order in which to do things, and use a guide when you get stuck. assuming you do decide to play them.

after aa3 you should mostly not have to use guides again except like a few isolated incidents.
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I'm pretty sure there was only one case I ever consulted a guide for, and that was the last case of PW1.

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it might be worthwhile to skip that last aa1 case when you play the trilogy. doing 3 aa games at a time can be a little exhausting and I tend to run out of steam by the time I get to the third game. skipping that monster case until after youve played the main arc might be for the best.

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I think I'm approaching the end of Ori, but there's a part of me that wants to go back over all the older areas and try to get to stuff I couldn't reach before now that I have a lot more skills.

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heading to mt. horu? if you are, yeah, youre close. its up to you if you want to go item hunting.

Ori 2 is out in 2 months so you can do it again if you dont get 100%! though, that wont be on switch initially so you might need to wait.

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anyway, looks like were at the end of this topic - thanks to everyone who had positive comments throughout. this might have been the most pleasant one of these ive done here over the last dozen or however many years.

see you guys in 2022 for a thrilling new version of the same games in a different order!

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transcience posted...

heading to mt. horu?

yeah I got the Sunstone

I can tell by the Achievement list that I'm getting close to the end

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Good topic

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Bump for great justice

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LeonhartFour posted...

I think I'm approaching the end of Ori, but there's a part of me that wants to go back over all the older areas and try to get to stuff I couldn't reach before now that I have a lot more skills.

Thats my favorite part of metroidvanias!

And great topic!

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mhm, thanks again. i didn't post much but i read the whole thing. appreciate it. =)

FFVIII #1 forever

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