Board 8 > ~Fight!~ Kevin McAllister* vs 1 Million Supermen

(+) Yeah! (+)

1 Million Supermen have challenged Kevin McAllister to a fight! Location of the fight: Earth - The planet which has cradled mankind for untold millennia and the home of every living human.. Which side will win?

Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

- Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
- You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
- Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
- If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
- This match will end in 24 hours.
- The following conventions are in use for match topics: www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427

Kevin McAllister as he appears in Home Alone. He is given infinite time to prepare against the invasion of Supermen, without experiencing regular bodily needs or death by any hand except his own during this preparation time.There will be nobody else on the planet, though he will not feel lonely, and he has access to whatever resources he can utilize from the empty planet. The Supermen will attack whenever Kevin decides he is ready to face them.

~VS~

1 Million Supermen as they appear in Superman (1978). They have whatever powers and limitations they show in the movie, with the additional ability of a lack of apprehension at killing a ten year old child.

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Kevin is a kid who
A) Has to know that kryptonite is the only way to effectively neutralize superman
B) Has to know where to find kryptonite on earth, of which there is a limited amount
C) Has to know how to utilize said limited amount of kryptonite in the most effective way, and even that might not be enough if there's not a lot of kryptonite.

Being, you know, a kid, I think it's reasonable to assume he has one of those capabilities right off the bat, no points for guessing which one correctly. Given infinite time, it's possible he eventually finds all the available kryptonite, but that might not be possible given I imagine some if not all of it is heavily locked down and being a kid, he'd have no way to know or learn how to get past any safeguard. Even if, against all expectation, he devised some means to adequately handle many supermen, the supermen could just suicide bomb him and gradually unveil all the traps he prepared until there were no more. And if the traps aren't kryptonite based as there is a limited supply of kryptonite, then the trapped supermen by those traps won't even be trapped permanently, so there is essentially a near infinite amount of supermen with which to spring traps.

1 million supermen
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Kevin always runs into some old person that helps him out when he needs it most

What if that person ends up being Lex Luthor

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StealThisSheen posted...

Kevin always runs into some old person that helps him out when he needs it most

What if that person ends up being Lex Luthor

How dare you call Lex old

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Kevin probably is Lex Luthor.

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Infinity is a long time. Very long. Absurdly long. If the scenario gave Kevin a million, hell, even a billion years to prepare, I'd be hesitant. But infinity, is, well, infinity.

Humans, after a certain point, don't have hard caps on their intellect as we know it. A ten year old can learn algebra. They can think logically. Given time and motivation, a kid, even an excitable one like Kevin, could derive all of our modern math and then some; it's just a matter of expertise and building the next conclusion from prior ones, and while serendipity and insight are certainly factors, he has plenty of chances to stumble upon lucky ideas and ample opportunity to follow up on any interesting ideas. He's limited by his isolation and relatively limited intelligence, but knowledge builds upon himself. Human history has existed for a mere ten thousand years. Imagine one expert alive through all of that time, information compounding, discoveries proliferating. It'd be tough for somebody to do alone, but then give them another ten thousand years. Then a million. Then ten billion. Kevin could do anything.

Motivation is no issue either. Kevin is faced with the prospect of fighting one million Supermen. He knows his life depends on preparing as thoroughly as possible. Fallibility, carelessness, lack of foresight... none of these apply. Perhaps, if given eternity to prepare against something as prosaic as a bear attack, Kevin would think "screw it" after an hour, erroneously believing himself to be ready, but he's fighting one million Supermen, a threat a 10 year old would probably appreciate even more viscerally than adults. He knows that these are impossible odds, beyond impossible, and so he'd prepare an incredible amount. An unimaginable amount. He could map out every non-degenerate variant of every outcome worth examining with time to spare. He would not stop until he was certain his victory was inevitable beyond any shadow of doubt. Kevin would take any measure he deemed necessary. Emerald brought up the limited reserves of Kryptonite on Earth and the difficulty in uncovering them. He has infinite time. Kevin could explore every building on the planet to search for it and it would likely take a negligible fraction of the time he'd spend planning. He could build robots and a spaceship to fly to Krypton to mine some for him. Why not? He's got eternity, all of the resources and knowledge of Earth, the motivation to do research and the capacity to discover anything else he'd need to. The Xanatos Gambit would need to be renamed after him. Superman can escape a black hole, which by definition is a region in which no path in space-time leads away from its singularity. He can't escape from Kevin's machinations.

The only real question, then, is how prepared is Kevin to go through these lengths? His only opponent is himself. Surrender is the only path to defeat. Fortunately for him, although he was chosen for comedy, he's a perfect character to be put in this situation. Home Alone isn't a movie devoted to much character developed, so Kevin only has a few defined traits. He's creative, which is useful but incidental for this plight. He gets frightened by the robbers, but largely as they're a present threat he didn't expect. More importantly, he was determined to repel them all alone, with stakes far lower than he faces here, and until his antagonists showed up, he was perfectly content to watch old movies and play with whatever he found around the house. His main stumbling point would be that he got lonely and demoralized as anybody would, which is a nonexistant threat in this prompt. If we take what we know of him to make this a fight between Kevin and Supermen, not just a generic stand-in and Supermen, we need to account for how his determination is basically his defining feature. He, better than most, would persevere in preparing for the existential crisis, and would likewise be happier than anybody to take some stress-relieving breaks alone whenever he felt overwhelmed.

Superman has near-infinite power. A million Supermen have a million times that. Kevin has infinite time.

this is a summary of my points from an hour-long debate i had for some reason i didn't synthesize all this just for this topic

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Not convinced anything Kevin could conjure up from earth, kryptonite excluded, would be more than an inconvenience to even a single Superman

traps nothing, 100 or 1000 of them could divebomb the area around his house and turn it into a crater

Supermen


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Trump is president. He will help him yet again

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StealThisSheen posted...

Kevin always runs into some old person that helps him out when he needs it most

What if that person ends up being Lex Luthor

There's nobody else on Earth. So no old person to help him. GG Kevin. GG.

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Assuming this Earth is the real Earth, Kevin can't even find Kryptonite because it's not real. So I don't see how he can win.
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Mewtwo59 posted...

Assuming this Earth is the real Earth, Kevin can't even find Kryptonite because it's not real. So I don't see how he can win.

Then the Supermen aren't real either and he wins by default.

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Mewtwo59 posted...

Assuming this Earth is the real Earth, Kevin can't even find Kryptonite because it's not real. So I don't see how he can win.

I was thinking he'd figure out how to synthesize it, but how can you figure out how to synthesize a fictional material with made-up properties? He can't even capture a Superman to experiment on because they only show up to fight when he is ready.

And I can't conceive of any amount of Kryptonite that can stop one MILLION supermans. Superman is very intelligent and the group would strategize - even if Kevin trained into comparable intellect, the Supermans wouldn't leave all one million members exposed at once, even if Kevin made a Krypto-nuke or something.

Finally, movie Superman has access to time manipulation by reversing the rotation of the earth. They could simply reverse time and undo Kevin's preparations.

Easy Supermans

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Should have left it at two Supermen. Or 500 thousand Harry + Marv pairs. As it is I don't think Kevin can overcome that many Supermen.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Finally, movie Superman has access to time manipulation by reversing the rotation of the earth. They could simply reverse time and undo Kevin's preparations.

That IS a good point, I completely forgot about that. I assumed they would only be able to reverse time until their arrival, but even there the Superman who reverses time could give crucial information about the battle to come to everyone else.

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I think you're all missing a big part of the picture. Superman isn't magic. The explanations for his powers don't make sense, obviously, but they are at least grounded in the logic of his world. Given his infinite time to prepare, Kevin could unlock the secrets of those powers. Maybe make an army of robot Supermen, become a super Superman, find a way to specifically counter Superman which something more powerful than Kryptonite in addition to whatever ridiculous science fiction he'd discover, who fucking knows, it's beyond the logic of our world.

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Kevin's established feats don't imply he can develop those things even with infinite time, especially as he is lacking his experience from Lost In New York here

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NFUN posted...

I think you're all missing a big part of the picture. Superman isn't magic. The explanations for his powers don't make sense, obviously, but they are at least grounded in the logic of his world. Given his infinite time to prepare, Kevin could unlock the secrets of those powers. Maybe make an army of robot Supermen, become a super Superman, find a way to specifically counter Superman which something more powerful than Kryptonite in addition to whatever ridiculous science fiction he'd discover, who fucking knows, it's beyond the logic of our world.

At that point he's just Lex Luthor. Superman is kind of good at beating these types of guys

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Lopen posted...

Kevin's established feats don't imply he can develop those things even with infinite time, especially as he is lacking his experience from Lost In New York here

His feats only matter for whether he'd have the tenacity to do them, not the ability. As far as we know, there's no cap on his wisdom given enough time. He's old enough and smart enough to understand logic. He's human and capable of creativity and insight. That's about all you need. Everything else is patience.

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*Kevin attempts to build robot army*

*Robot army kills him, which falls under the rules of him dying by his own hand*

*A million Supermen wonder why they were even needed*

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

At that point he's just Lex Luthor. Superman is kind of good at beating these types of guys

Lex Luthor exists at more or less our level of technology. Maybe a century or two ahead of us with weird science of the Superman world. Two hundred years ago we fought wars with muskets and bayonets. A hundred and fifty years ago streets were lit with fire. A hundred years ago we didn't know what atoms were made out of and you had to be in earshot to talk to somebody. Imagine what science would look like a thousand years from now (assuming no collapse). It'll be likely as divorced from our understanding of the world as ours is to an 11th century Irishman. Give it another ten thousand years. In this Universe, I can't imagine there not being technology that hilariously surpasses Superman's powers. It may take Kevin a million years, or a thousand times that, to get to that point, but you're not arguing determination, you're arguing ability, and given eternity, Kevin would certainly be able to surpass a mere one million Supermen.

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I disagree. We need a more broad portfolio of situations solved and foes defeated to get a better grasp of the upper bounds of his resourcefulness and intellect. As it is we only know he can thoroughly defeat Harry and Marv in a game of human chess with fairly limited resources, but a single Superman could surely do that as well. To say nothing of the Nine Hundred Thousand+ extra Supermen acting as backup.

A teaming of say Kevin McAllister, Angus "Mac" MacGyver, John McClane, and Rocky Balboa acting as the foundation, you'd perhaps have my interest. As it stands they are simply too much for young Kevin to overcome.

Supermen

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NFUN posted...

Lex Luthor exists at more or less our level of technology. Maybe a century or two ahead of us with weird science of the Superman world. Two hundred years ago we fought wars with muskets and bayonets. A hundred and fifty years ago streets were lit with fire. A hundred years ago we didn't know what atoms were made out of and you had to be in earshot to talk to somebody. Imagine what science would look like a thousand years from now (assuming no collapse). It'll be likely as divorced from our understanding of the world as ours is to an 11th century Irishman. Give it another ten thousand years. In this Universe, I can't imagine there not being technology that hilariously surpasses Superman's powers. It may take Kevin a million years, or a thousand times that, to get to that point, but you're not arguing determination, you're arguing ability, and given eternity, Kevin would certainly be able to surpass a mere one million Supermen.

Okay, so he's Brainiac, who is a multiversal-level threat that is even smarter than Lex. Who Superman also beats.

My point is that you're giving Kevin this overwrought comic book villain backstory and hyping him up. He's even now an edgy, overpowered version of a harmless character originally made for children! Superman LOVES trouncing these guys, this is firmly his territory.

Which isnt to say Superman is just too OP to lose. Nah. Superman loses all the time. I'd take this Kevin versus one Superman, or maybe even a reasonable amount of Supermen. But Superman also excels in a team - he is a team player, and when he loses, his friends usually step up to bail him out. You just gave each Superman 999,999 friends.

This situations sounds like Kevin has a huge advantage, but it's really a standard Superman story, and it's tailor-made for him to win.

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NFUN posted...

Then the Supermen aren't real either and he wins by default.

This scenario pre-assumes that the Supermen are real, but by stating that it's real earth, it factors out kryptonite.

Anyways, based on that as well as the arguments ITT, one million Supermen.

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After awhile, Kevin would know that its way too much effort to try and win this fight, so he would take the time to live as much as he wanted to, and then eventually one day decide to kill himself instead of bothering to fight the Supermen and time would never unfreeze

I mean, you say his life is at stake, but if he can hold off the threat for infinite time, thats kind of meaningless.
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There's also the possibility, since it was outlined in your guidelines, that kevin meets his end before the supermen even get there by trying to advance technology all by himself by thousands of years in some science experiment gone wrong. Maybe he tries to create a new element in the periodic table that would be capable of destroying superman and it blows up the earth. Or creates a black hole. Or creates a virus, etc. That would count as being at his own hand.
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Given infinite time, there are nearly infinite possibilities. But just nearly, imo. And Im thinking there are more possibilities where something goes wrong for Kevin than not.

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Kevin doesn't have future sight, so he needs to display proper judgment in evaluating his plan as well. We actually don't know how well Kevin can reflect on his schemes and weigh whether they can work.

Even if he can potentially devise a plan that will work, will he settle for one that he thinks will work, and won't? I'm thinking that's more likely.

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Right. There is no possible way to amass knowledge of how to beat Superman because hes on real Earth and theres no real Superman biology to study.

Any conclusions he comes to, even after infinite time, would be assumptions at best
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Kevin's in a pretty powerful position as far as living out your life goes. Until he decides he is "ready," he has the entire world to himself and infinite time to travel, eat, play, and explore wherever he wants with his near-immortality. I feel like he would end up making the most of his infinite life until satisfied and letting the Supermen end it all for him; it doesn't seem worth his while to prepare for enough time to make anyone go insane for the chance at bragging rights that you beat a bunch of Supermen. Unless...there's an even greater reward at stake if he does manage to win?

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pretty sure someone with perfect/top tier clairvoyance could trick the superdudes but kevin aint one

<b>supermans</b>

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I guess I never voted

Supermans
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Yeah, the Supermen win.
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Come to think of it, I cant think of any single entity ever conceived that could beat a million Supermans given infinite time to prepare
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merlin lol

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This was so one sided it's not even funny. Supermen

You'd need either Doctor Strange, or someone with the scientific knowledge, tools, and mental strength to be willing and able to MODIFY THE SUN. This is a very binary situation, it's not can someone beat a million supermen over time, it's can someone nullify a million supermen at once with their reasonable skills and knowledge. Because if they even miss one of them, they lose.

Could Kevin even beat a million Joe Pescis

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The Wet Bandits do seem nearly as invulnerable as Superman
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Jakyl25 posted...

Come to think of it, I cant think of any single entity ever conceived that could beat a million Supermans given infinite time to prepare

The Doctor and Anti-Monitor come to mind.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Come to think of it, I cant think of any single entity ever conceived that could beat a million Supermans given infinite time to prepare

Batman can beat one Superman given finite time to prepare, so he should able to beat more Supermen given enough prep time. Infinite prep time should be enough for him to beat any number of Supermen.
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I'd put Doctor Doom and Mister Fantastic in that line as well, able to beat a million+ supermen given infinite prep time.

I'd watch kevin with infinite time to prepare vs a million wet bandits

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I do think Kevin would win that one
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I'd be curious he sets up lethal traps or not

I think itd be tough to incapacitate a million wet bandits

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Just dig an extremely wide moat around the house filled with a million sharks
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It's good to specify Wet Bandits and not the Sticky Bandits. I think the Sticky Bandits (AKA Punished Marv and Harry) are too wizened to Kevin's schemes.

Also I watched Hone Alones 1 and 2, and I noticed something. First, those two are literally the same movie. Second, in both encounters Kevin gets caught. Marv is basically about to eat his fingers one by one in the first movie. Kevin only wins due to intervention from the Kind Old Person Who Seemed Mean At First, an element Kevin could not duplicate in this scenario.

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I mean, if you need a Kind Old Person Who Seemed Mean at First, it's time to discuss the Batman Variable.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Come to think of it, I cant think of any single entity ever conceived that could beat a million Supermans given infinite time to prepare

Meta characters perhaps, like Featherine.

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