Board 8 > Settle an argument: what decade does Ganondorf count as?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Is he sufficiently different from Ganon in the same way that Young Link and Toon Link are placed in 90s and 00s as opposed to normal Link?
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Anagram posted...

Is he sufficiently different from Ganon in the same way that Young Link and Toon Link are placed in 90s and 00s as opposed to normal Link?

If you believe that, then yes.

But why would you believe that?
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I'd probably only count Ganon and Ganondorf differently if they were both in the game
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ganon/dorf is one eternal person

the true question is ganon vs demise
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Context to this argument between me and Anagram is this image:

https://imgur.com/0NKGcg2

I've been arguing that Ganondorf should be listed under 90's, because his human design didn't exist until OoT, and he was never even referred to by the name Ganondorf until LttP, which is still 90's

Furthermore, it's inconsistent with the rest of the labeling, because if Ganondorf is 80's, then so is Young Link, Toon Link, and Sheik

Yeah, the Ganon first used in Zelda 1 is literally the same being as OoT Ganondorf

But Young Link specifically refers to OoT/MM Link
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An addendum to this argument as well is that I said that if Wolf Link was added to the game, specifically as Wolf Link, he would be a 00's character, not a 80's character

however Link in his BotW design is fine as 80's because it's still easily understood to be Link

I have another piece of ammunition for my argument: Ganondorf's Trophy in Melee lists him as originating in Ocarina of Time

Sakurai said trophies are bad
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Paratroopa1 posted...

I have another piece of ammunition for my argument: Ganondorf's Trophy in Melee lists him as originating in Ocarina of Time

Do his Brawl and 4 trophies?
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I think smash 4 puts Ganondorf in 1986 in all-star mode but smash 4 is dumb and wrong

Paratroopa1 posted...

I think smash 4 puts Ganondorf in 1986 in all-star mode but smash 4 is dumb and wrong

OH MY GOD HAHA NO THEY DON'T

he's a 1998 character in smash 4

Paratroopa1 posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

I think smash 4 puts Ganondorf in 1986 in all-star mode but smash 4 is dumb and wrong

OH MY GOD HAHA NO THEY DON'T

he's a 1998 character in smash 4

Hm, didn't know that. People are still divided, though.
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Ganondorf is actually so recent that he shows up after the gen 1 Pokemon and freaking Cloud which I think is funny for some reason

I think every Link should be represented in Smash as Echo Fighters

Except maybe FSA Link
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Jakyl25 posted...

I think every Link should be represented in Smash as Echo Fighters

Except maybe FSA Link

Great, I'll grab my stuff!

Paratroopa1 posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

I think every Link should be represented in Smash as Echo Fighters

Except maybe FSA Link

Great, I'll grab my stuff!

This is what all true Smash players strive for!
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swirIdude posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

I think every Link should be represented in Smash as Echo Fighters

Except maybe FSA Link

Great, I'll grab my stuff!

This is what all true Smash players strive for!

I can't wait to bomb some Dodongos!
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Ganondorf is like an alternate costume to Ganon

Like you wouldn't put Dr Mario in the 80s you'd put him in the 90s. Same thing. Only difference is Ganon ain't in the game.
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Neither. Hes an 00s character from either 01 or 06, depending on whether or not you think it took until TP for non-Link Zelda characters to have any real popularity. Certainly would be 06 in terms of pic factor, though.
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I'm not sure what there is to be argue about here? Ganondorf debuted in 1998, even if he's the same central character as Ganon from Zelda 1.

you disappoint me, board 8
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80s. Unless Nintendo introduces Ganon as a separate Smash character, in Zelda canon they are the same.
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I've always thought of Ganon and Ganondorf as separate characters, despite the fact that the latter turns into the former in two of the three games he's in.
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Same idea as zero suit imo so 90s
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My LoZ lore is a little bit rusty, but I'm pretty sure Ganon's just the embodiment of Demise. I believe Ganondorf on the other hand has his own history. I think Ganon just happened to come to Dorf when he obtained the Triforce of Power.

That's just my interpretation though
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Ganon/dorf is Demise reborn - like how Link is... always a different Link reborn. So it's a new person from Demise, just as OoT Link is a different person from TP Link.

Ganon/Ganondorf however is all the same person. I think people are thrown off by the fact that OoT was the 4th game he was in but is the origin story of his character -- Ganon does not predate Ganondorf, Ganon was originally born as Ganondorf and went on to become Ganon.
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GuessMyUserName posted...

Ganon/dorf is Demise reborn - like how Link is... always a different Link reborn. So it's a new person from Demise, just as OoT Link is a different person from TP Link.

Ganon/Ganondorf however is all the same person. I think people are thrown off by the fact that OoT was the 4th game he was in but is the origin story of his character -- Ganon does not predate Ganondorf, Ganon was originally born as Ganondorf, who becomes Ganon through OoT.

The lore is after the fact though

Do Zelda 1 or 2 ever refer to him as previously having been human in any of its lore?

Yeah, this is all jumbling around in the weeds. The dispute isnt so much that Ganon is different from Ganondorf, but that Ganondorf literally was created in the 90s!

heroicmario posted...

Yeah, this is all jumbling around in the weeds. The dispute isnt so much that Ganon is different from Ganondorf, but that Ganondorf literally was created in the 90s!

Now to be fair, I do think there is an argument for listing Ganondorf under 80's - he is not meant to be especially differentiated from Ganon, and there is certainly at least some understanding of the continuity of Zelda 1's Ganon through OoT's Ganondorf. If he's listed as 90's, I think he's the only Smash character to "debut" post-80's who uses something specifically from the 80's as one of his moves (when he does turn into pig Ganon as his final smash)

but I do think he's a character debuting in OoT ultimately and it makes more sense to treat him as such

I read what you posted, understood it, and then questioned what we are even talking about right now, haha. What is this argument? Who has this?! I mean, if you want to call Ganondorf a form that debuted in the 90s, youre right. If you want to say the character Ganon was made in the 80s, youre also right?

Paratroopa1 posted...

The lore is after the fact though

Do Zelda 1 or 2 ever refer to him as previously having been human in any of its lore?

I don't see why it would have to! The concept of Ganondorf is introduced as the original human form of Ganon so it's not like there's ever a point where they were separate individuals.

Like how Baby Mario is still Mario, it's just a new detail of his past.

(that being said I guess you can call Baby Mario a 90s character and thus apply the same logic to Ganondorf)
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GuessMyUserName posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

The lore is after the fact though

Do Zelda 1 or 2 ever refer to him as previously having been human in any of its lore?

I don't see why it would have to! The concept of Ganondorf is introduced as the original human form of Ganon so it's not like there's ever a point where they were separate individuals.

Like how Baby Mario is still Mario, it's just a new detail of his past.

(that being said I guess you can call Baby Mario a 90s character and thus apply the same logic to Ganondorf)

I would list Baby Mario as a 90's character yeah

Paratroopa1 posted...

https://imgur.com/0NKGcg2

Holy

I went "Ryu, Ken, Chun-Li" in my head there.
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Smash counts Dorf as a 90's character so I imagine that should be how it is for the groupings as well
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LOLIAmAnAlt posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

https://imgur.com/0NKGcg2

Holy

I went "Ryu, Ken, Chun-Li" in my head there.

haha

chun-li is 90's though!

I'd say the 90's since the first two were really sparse at best on his character.
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Unbridled9 posted...

I'd say the 90's since the first two were really sparse at best on his character.

Name a character whose character wasn't sparse in the 80s when kilobytes were the count and megabytes were the very high end of potential for full games.
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ChichiriMuyo posted...

Unbridled9 posted...

I'd say the 90's since the first two were really sparse at best on his character.

Name a character whose character wasn't sparse in the 80s when kilobytes were the count and megabytes were the very high end of potential for full games.

Well sure; but I think this is a very different case since the first game basically just had him as a final boss and the second game didn't even do THAT since he was already dead and what-not. So basically everything actually defining and the like didn't come till after the second game; which was in the 90's.
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btw i just gotta say, it feels weird seeing Daisy, Ryu and Ken in the 80s when they weren't on the NES, but Dr. Mario, Marth and Kirby in the 90s when they were on the NES.
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Xuxon posted...

btw i just gotta say, it feels weird seeing Daisy, Ryu and Ken in the 80s when they weren't on the NES, but Dr. Mario, Marth and Kirby in the 90s when they were on the NES.

That's the way it goes.
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Pretty sure Ken was on the NES

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZGQ1NWU5NzItZTE5Mi00OGY5LTgzZDQtNDZmZjYyNzhkNGRhXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMzM4MjM0Nzg@._V1_SY1000_CR0,0,727,1000_AL_.jpg
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Yeah Target of Break the Targets fame debuted in that game too.
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Ganon/dorf is the same person, Link/Zelda is different
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Jakyl25 posted...

Pretty sure Ken was on the NES

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZGQ1NWU5NzItZTE5Mi00OGY5LTgzZDQtNDZmZjYyNzhkNGRhXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMzM4MjM0Nzg@._V1_SY1000_CR0,0,727,1000_AL_.jpg

Man, I remember the mace hand guys back in 2010. Good times.
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Ryu and Ken go all the way back to 1987 with the first Street Fighter game that nobody played. Daisy just barely snuck in there in 1989, although arguably her modern design is 90's as well but that really is splitting hairs. I was surprised by Dr. Mario and Marth too but they're both from 1990. And I was REALLY shocked that Kirby didn't make his debut until 1992! It blows me away to this day that they still made Kirby's Adventure for the NES as a sequel.

Paratroopa1 posted...

I've been arguing that Ganondorf should be listed under 90's, because his human design didn't exist until OoT, and he was never even referred to by the name Ganondorf until LttP, which is still 90's

I agree with this. Additionally, he is named Ganondorf throughout OoT, but when he changes to pig form for the final boss fight, they call him Ganon. Ive always taken it that the forms are called different names due to this.
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The Popo posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

I've been arguing that Ganondorf should be listed under 90's, because his human design didn't exist until OoT, and he was never even referred to by the name Ganondorf until LttP, which is still 90's

I agree with this. Additionally, he is named Ganondorf throughout OoT, but when he changes to pig form for the final boss fight, they call him Ganon. Ive always taken it that the forms are called different names due to this.

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Paratroopa1 posted...

It blows me away to this day that they still made Kirby's Adventure for the NES as a sequel.

Sakurai!!!
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If Ganondorf is 80s, should Zero Suit be 80s too?

edit dorf
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