Board 8 > Ace Attorney Topic Part 7: The Letting (Spoilers for AA1-6, AAI1-2)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah, I'd agree Maya's the best option

I'm not sure there's much interesting there to learn, but, hey

Nah, I doubt anyone other than Phoenix can win a match from the series unless they end up pitted against ultra fodder.

still it seems like that's what everyone wants to nominate this year so hey why not
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I think it's fully possible that ace attorney as a series has stood the test of time more than other franchises and that they might be stronger by default at this point

yeah I don't know what to think of the contest this year because it's been so long and the last five years in gaming have been kinda unique

it's also possible that it won't even matter because of rallies so who knows
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It's interesting to note that you can see the orb that Datz gives you to get into the hideout in the background at Beh'leeb's house on the first day, and you can even examine it. When you go there on the second day, it's gone, which is your first big hint that she's a rebel, too.
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6-3 Investigation Day 2 complete

I like how Phoenix is banking on the Divination Seance to give him the ammo he needs to turn things around here, only for them to subvert it and not have Rayfa be able to do it at first during trial day 2.
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Rheel Neh'mu
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got home from work and the light on my 3DS was flashing red

made it just in time
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Deid Mann for CB X.
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Raka_Putra posted...

Deid Mann for CB X.

Doing his match picture would suck, because the only official art of him that's not his mugshot is the security footage of him fulfilling his life's purpose. And his face isn't even visible there.
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Hmm that's true.
Who's the most minor character with the most official pictures/assets? Romein? Holy Mother? Dr. Grey?
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Misty Fey
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LeonhartFour posted...

Misty Fey

She has major relevance in the backstory of 1-4 despite not actually appearing, so I'm not sure she'd qualify.
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I mean
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been busy the last few days so I haven't really had time to play any but I should be able to get some time in today
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Zeh'lot's Divination Seance might be the toughest one in the game, simply because you have the least to work with. It's pretty clever though.
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Maya channeling Tahrust is such a great moment.
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you know I feel like this Magatama of Parting would have been a useful thing to have back in 3-5

or that Spirit Severing Technique Morgan talked about (that may have been a blatant lie but who knows)
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it's honestly kind of awesome to see Maya so confident in her abilities here after how much she struggled in the OT

and man Tahrust has some amazing animations
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LeonhartFour posted...

you know I feel like this Magatama of Parting would have been a useful thing to have back in 3-5

or that Spirit Severing Technique Morgan talked about (that may have been a blatant lie but who knows)

A master is supposed to be able to just kick out the spirit as well.
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yeah that's the biggest inconsistency with the nature of spirit channeling in the series

maybe Dahlia was just that powerful herself who knows

she's technically a Fey too
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LeonhartFour posted...

yeah that's the biggest inconsistency with the nature of spirit channeling in the series

maybe Dahlia was just that powerful herself who knows

she's technically a Fey too

Isnt the whole reason the Hawthorne girls get abandoned is because they have no spiritual power?
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no spiritual power as a medium but maybe it was the power of sheer rage or something

that indomitable will, almost like an evil Phoenix
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LeonhartFour posted...

you know I feel like this Magatama of Parting would have been a useful thing to have back in 3-5

or that Spirit Severing Technique Morgan talked about (that may have been a blatant lie but who knows)

I believe they are one and the same.
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I forget, where is the Magatama of Parting used in 6-3 acquired? It's a Khu'rainese one, right?

If so my theory would be that Morgan had the Magatama of Parting used by the Fey clan (which she credibly could have used in 2-2 had the situation been real instead of faked, since if she were lying Maya would be able to call her on it), but hid it so it wasn't available to be used by Misty (or anyone else) in 3-5.
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Well, I assume it's not a singular item because it can only be used once.
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I like during Tahrust's first testimony, Phoenix looks over to ask Maya for advice, forgetting that she's in the middle of channeling at the moment.
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I think it's weird that they talk about what the listening device recorded in the rebel hideout and they even send someone to retrieve the tape, but once that discussion is finished, it's completely forgotten about. I was curious about what was on that tape.
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6-3 feels somewhat less than the sum of its pieces in hindsight to me. probably has to do with how small the cast is - doesn't feel like you cover a lot of different ground for a monster-length double-murder trial
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so you guys might remember me playing through AA6 earlier this year? I stopped after 6-4 for some reason, but inspired by a surprising conversation about AA with work colleagues this week, I started 6-5 a few days ago!

finished with the Khura'in investigation day now, just the Dhurke trial left (presumably). damn this case has become bleak as hell, I'd need to go back and play some of the other epics to see if any of them feel as tragic and sorrowful as this one (maybe 5-5 might). even the Armie Buff narrative in the prelude was heartbreaking! I started with the day 2 investigation this evening in a fairly melancholic mood, and if anything I think I feel even worse now. super gripping stuff though.

current thoughts, so I can laugh at my mistakes later:

- the queen has to be the mastermind between both crimes. it would seem fairly absurd for her to be physically murdering people herself (surely she has people for that), but I can't see any other suspect. if there's nothing in the sarcophagus, I wonder if she could enter/exit the tomb through there?
- I think Rayfa might be Dhurke and Amara's daughter and yet another psuedo-hostage for the regime
- I have no real idea what Dhurke might be talking about when he says that the trial might have some uncomfortable truths for Apollo. maybe he did kill Inga? Maya said he saved her, after all.
- seems like Inga has prosopagnosia (that thing that Ace from 999 has) and can't recognise faces. doesn't really seem to have any relevance to the case itself yet, but it'll surely make the Divination Seance fun!
- given what we know about Edgeworth, Apollo and Athena's pasts now, it feels amusing and incongruous how little we know about Phoenix's childhood and family. is there anything at all besides the Butz class trial? I guess it makes him a better avatar, but at this point he almost feels like one of the least fleshed out main characters in the series, which is bizarre. maybe if I returned to the original trilogy I'd feel differently.
- if 6-5 sticks the landing, it's a top three case in the series for sure, no? not even 3-5 felt this massive in scope.
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6-5 super good

Giggsalot posted...

it feels amusing and incongruous how little we know about Phoenix's childhood and family. is there anything at all besides the Butz class trial?

we know he's an only child

that's about it
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I like that we don't know much about Phoenix's family. It mostly implies that he was an average kid growing up, which is something I can relate to. No need for every kid to be a traumatized orphan supergenius. The individual characters resulting from this formula can be good - Edgeworth and Maya, i.e. - but I dislike the trend toward more and more precocious and angsty childhoods in AA. You can have strong characters without dramatic backstories too!

Of course for this to work logically we should overlook Phoenix's 7-year life of suck, which we generally should do anyway.
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that's a fair point actually; as harrowing as this case has been, it seems almost like a retcon to be discovering Apollo's inner turmoil and tragic upbringing now. it's just a funny by-product that Phoenix's relatively normal life makes him an increasingly outlying presence in his own cast.

interesting to bring up his seven year slump too, I know that's not the most popular narrative in the series (for good reason) and it's kinda brushed under the rug now plot-wise but I always thought it lended depth to his character, and in a fairly non-outlandish way in comparison to everyone else's considerably more melodramatic hardships.
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Well, we've known Apollo was an orphan (or supposedly since his mother isn't actually dead) since AJ, so he kinda had a "tragic past" already. We just didn't know anything about why he wanted to be a lawyer, and SoJ finally filled in the blank.
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Giggsalot posted...

that's a fair point actually; as harrowing as this case has been, it seems almost like a retcon to be discovering Apollo's inner turmoil and tragic upbringing now. it's just amusing that his relatively normal life makes Phoenix stick out like a sore thumb in his own cast.

Absolutely agreed here!

interesting to bring up his seven year slump too, I know that's not the most popular narrative in the series (for good reason) and it's kinda brushed under the rug now plot-wise but I always thought it lended depth to his character, and in a fairly non-outlandish way in comparison to everyone else's considerably more melodramatic hardships.

The seven DARK YEARS OF THE LAW for Phoenix are kind of the opposite to Apollo for me. Apollo got a silly dark past in AA5/6 after being just a fanboy type with nearly zero backstory in AA4. Phoenix seemed like he was living in a state of constant rock bottom in AA4, but subsequent games fleshed out his relationships with Edgeworth and Maya during his off-years, making it much more palatable.

Also it's not the territory of the writers of the games to deliver on romantic pairings, but it makes me sad that all our favorite characters seem to be aging out of their prime years without serious liaisons. Edgeworth avers no interest, which I can get behind, but Phoenix at least we know is capable of, and at least once desired, romantic love.

LeonhartFour posted...

Well, we've known Apollo was an orphan (or supposedly since his mother isn't actually dead) since AJ, so he kinda had a "tragic past" already. We just didn't know anything about why he wanted to be a lawyer, and SoJ finally filled in the blank.

don't forget the clay terran backstory from AA5 lmao
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Eh, the Clay thing didn't really add anything other than an explanation for what was just a nervous tic in AJ.

but yeah bring back Iris
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LeonhartFour posted...

Well, we've known Apollo was an orphan (or supposedly since his mother isn't actually dead) since AJ, so he kinda had a "tragic past" already. We just didn't know anything about why he wanted to be a lawyer, and SoJ finally filled in the blank.

I guess so! I'm intrigued to see if they elaborate on the Lamiroir connection before the case/game is over (that always felt like a weirdly unexplored plot point to me), especially if this is Apollo's big character climax or even series farewell - I could imagine him staying in Khura'in from here on and future games shifting focus to Athena or something.

(no spoilers please obviously)

also yes, count me in for team Iris! I also hope that Phoenix continues adopting random orphans, I wanna see Armie Buff hanging around the Anything Agency in AA7
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also don't talk about "aging out of prime years without romance" when I'll be as old as Hobonix next year
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LeonhartFour posted...

also don't talk about "aging out of prime years without romance" when I'll be as old as Hobonix next year

hey now, you're a real life person, not a character controlled by writers who need to appease their fans

you get to appease your own fans!
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well I have no fans to appease

and no Iris to speak of either

but yeah the fact that they let Iris just disappear from the face of the earth means the series isn't really interested in writing any more romantic arcs for its major characters

well they teased Apollo/Juniper in DD a bit I guess but that's about it
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also I like that the final testimony of 6-3 is about Tahrust accusing Maya of channeling Lady Kee'ra and Phoenix having to prove she couldn't have done it

I like that SoJ really tried to take advantage of its unique setting to give you stuff you wouldn't otherwise be able to do
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Giggsalot posted...

- the queen has to be the mastermind between both crimes. it would seem fairly absurd for her to be physically murdering people herself (surely she has people for that), but I can't see any other suspect. if there's nothing in the sarcophagus, I wonder if she could enter/exit the tomb through there?

bedtime crackpot theory: what if nayna did it, dressed up like dhurke so that inga (and divination seance viewers) would think it was him? in any case, I love that nayna is becoming a plot point here, she's fantastic.

Also, there have been so many callbacks and recycled ideas from 3-5 at different parts of this game that it never occured to me until now that dhurke is basically godot. If he ends up having committed murder to save maya and then dies on us, that might be a little ridiculous.

Anyway, will take on the trial tomorrow and/or thursday and report back!
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reading people's 6-5 theories is consistently entertaining because the possible permutations are seemingly endless

there was one big 6-5 theory I came up with that I nailed (although I was right for the wrong reason but hey) but I was laughably wrong in other areas
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LeonhartFour posted...

well they teased Apollo/Juniper in DD a bit I guess but that's about it

Turns out Apollo and Junpier have been going out in the background and AA6 just didn't show it.

well Apollo does have a Bum Rap Rhiny strap on his phone in SoJ
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There's a definite lack of romantic relationships for AA characters. SD's point about appeasing fans is pretty much to blame here, I think - they know that any relationship they would write would annoy some of the fanbase (because it's not their preferred pairing), so by and large they just don't. It's a bit cowardly IMO but it's not the end of the world, and hey I kinda like that Edgeworth seems to be outright asexual since that's a pretty underrepresented demographic in media.

Though I gotta say I hate Phoenix/Iris. Their entire interaction consists or Iris trying to ask Phoenix for something and Phoenix completely ignoring her, seems like a terrible basis for a relationship to me. I definitely read Young Phoenix as an idiot phase he needed to grow out of (and he did!), and that includes getting over his love for someone who didn't give a damn about him. Saying "oh but she grew to love him over time anyway" perpetuates some bad ideas about relationships.
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the problem with that is that 3-5's ending is meant to validate his feelings about Iris

"You really are the person I always thought you were."

the one he needed to get over was "Dahlia," and he did that

Pink Sweater Phoenix is definitely an idiot, but he's also portrayed as discerning (even if he himself isn't totally self-aware about it). Also, I don't think Phoenix is completely ignoring her when she asks for the necklace back. He just doesn't think she's serious (and why should he? She gave him the thing, or so he thinks), and Iris isn't assertive/cold-hearted enough to just steal it from him.

but regardless most fantasy romances perpetuate falsehoods about how relationships actually work so Phoenix/Iris certainly isn't unique in that regard
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anyway I love in 6-3 how the fact that the Plumed Punisher is a Steel Samurai ripoff is actually a case-making plot point
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Giggsalot posted...

in any case, I love that nayna is becoming a plot point here, she's fantastic.

aw yeah

LeonhartFour posted...

there was one big 6-5 theory I came up with that I nailed (although I was right for the wrong reason but hey) but I was laughably wrong in other areas

which was this?

NeoElfboy posted...

It's a bit cowardly IMO but it's not the end of the world

i pretty much agree with you, it's just something that lowers my investment in the characters and kind of keeps me on the outside looking in
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SeabassDebeste posted...

which was this?

Don't read this until you're done, Giggs

That Ga'ran doesn't have any spiritual power.
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