Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic - July 2018 Edition

(+) Yeah! (+)

azuarc posted...

VeryInsane posted...

Oops I totally deleted that by mistake thinking it was someone who was raging at me >_> (I added you again though)

On a side note, hit legend again, this time as Token Druid

Yeah, I deleted mine, too, I think.

You're both jerks :'(

Not really. I still need to do that Challenge-a-friend quest if anyone is around.
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Some new cards got leaked

Think the 1 mana Warrior mech is pretty solid for the early game

Hunter Legendary is kinda ehhh but it depends on what else gets out

Warrior Spell is pretty good in a big warrior deck and gives them a win con against like, Shudderwock
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VeryInsane posted...

Hunter Legendary is kinda ehhh

You dont say.
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Hey Hunter has gotten good Legendaries lately! That meme is dead!
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I copied a control warlock zalae was playing on stream. Played 10 games

Wins (spell hunter (x2), egg hunter, control mage, odd rogue (x2), zoo.)

Losses (shudderwock, odd rogue, midrange hunter)

One of the spell hunter games my opponent threw by turning into ds rexar and giving up the hero power. The control mage game I gnomeferatsued a card late or I would have hit jaina (and would have saved probably 15 minutes)

In the shuddeewock game both gnomes and guldan were bottom 4.
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Just had a game where I clearly lost due to opponent drawing their DK when I didn't, which got me thinking about the recent talk in this thread about how the DK cards were a bad idea from a design perspective.

Here's what I'm thinking at the moment. The way the hero cards let you totally transform your strategy once they hit the board is awesome. They open up entirely new avenues for deck building. Buuut...draw RNG is a pain. It's no fun when your opponent plays FL Jaina on 9 and you fight tooth and nail to survive another 10 turns, miraculously clinging to life, only to never draw the card in your deck that gives you infinite value.

So...what if they explored some with just making different heroes? Not hero cards, but heroes. Within the existing classes.

Like for a random off the cuff example, you play as a Hunter, meaning you have access to hunter spells, but it's a different character, with different characteristics. Like maybe starting HP, starting Hero Power (maybe even implement passive hero powers like we've seen in solo adventures?), or other perks which don't already exist as a concept in the game.

I know obviously there's a hurdle to overcome with balance. But, that aside...I guess what I'm getting at is the hero card idea is so cool and fun but it's biggest downfall is the fact it's entirely unreliable. Why not just make it a permanent thing like Baku and Genn?

I guess/hope that's what they are working toward with those cards?

What do you think?

Unrelated to my last post...I just saw DK Uther for the first since, uh ....forever? Like I paused and stared blankly for a minute because I was so shocked.

Shaman is probably seen less, but I imagine most people forget about it since they have Hagatha now. Those two seem pretty relegated to wild at the moment.
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I love the new Rogue epic spell
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Yeah I still have Tess, so that type of deck is probably gonna be the first one I try in the new expansion.
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So more Legendaries were revealed

I dunno what to make of them as of right now, but outside of both Warrior ones And Shaman/Druid minions there isnt anything super exceptional. Maybe Myra Spell as a super Aluneth
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Its 10 percent luck, 20 percent skill, 15 percent concentrated power of will

5 percent pleasure, 50 percent pain and 100 percent reason to go for the face
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No one is saying that luck doesn't matter at all.

Not one person is saying that.

But skill *also* matters.
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50.01%
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Skill is knowing which cards to play in your turn based on the ones currently in your hand.

Skill is knowing which cards to hold onto based on the matchup.

Skill is knowing which cards you are more likely to draw into and planning accordingly.

Skill is building the deck in such a way that minimizes your chance of having something impactful to do.

.

At a high level Hearthstone is not as simple as "play 2 on 2 then 3 on 3 then 4..." or playing your best cards as soon as they turn green.

There was a priest vs token druid game in HGG that showcased how important it can be to play the matchup correctly. The priest identified by turn 7 that their win condition was going to be to clear boards with wild pyro clears and other small aoes and to play to win in fatigue. By doing this they held onto their they psychic scream instead of using it when the opportunity presented itself so they could maintain their fatigue advantage.

This is an example where skill mattered and their draw order after turn 9 or so was irrelevant to their game plan.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Forceful_Dragon posted...

But skill *also* matters.

I will actually concede somewhat and agree with this, because it's clearly above 0% of why someone wins.

What percentage would you give it? I'd go as high as 15% or so.

This is the most heel post Ulti has ever made in his time on B8.

We've spent over a year at this point arguing with him about skill being a factor, and he never budged until now, on his own, without any real resistance.

Fantastic post. This was the ultimate long con.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

What percentage would you give it? I'd go as high as 15% or so.

I always said somewhere between 20% and around 33% when I was analyzing my arena stats. depending on the era. never really thought about it while playing constructed but intuitively it feels like a bit less than either of those. most of the time when I queue into ladder it feels like the deck my opponent is playing is the most important factor in at least 4/5 matches. that means 20% would be the absolute maximum if there was no draw RNG or anything else involved. and that's before you even get into cards that create new cards from outside of your deck. 10% would be my guess based on all of that information.

haven't really tracked the stats enough to say that confidently though, but that's my raw estimate.

davidponte posted...

This is the most heel post Ulti has ever made in his time on B8.

We've spent over a year at this point arguing with him about skill being a factor, and he never budged until now, on his own, without any real resistance.

Fantastic post. This was the ultimate long con.

lol yeah somewhat amusing that he literally refused to accept it when I would always say 'RNG is way too large of a factor, but it's obvious there is at least some skill involved' and now suddenly it's like he achieved this divine truth on his own. but whatever.
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Its almost like he likes messing with board 8 people or something

I miss discussing new cards
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Guys I have a good solution

Click on ultis name

Click ignore

Voila youre one more liar free on gamefaqs

Then again Im worried about Floop making Druid super overpowered again so D:
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ColZach posted...

Guys I have a good solution

Click on ultis name

Click ignore

Voila youre one more liar free on gamefaqs

seems like reasonable advice

'this person did something somewhat amusing

'IGNORE THEM!!!'
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Its amusing now

Give it a few weeks and ulti will swing back to saying people who think HS is skill related should be sterilized

LiquidOshawott posted...

So more Legendaries were revealed

I dunno what to make of them as of right now, but outside of both Warrior ones And Shaman/Druid minions there isnt anything super exceptional. Maybe Myra Spell as a super Aluneth

I think the paladin spell and Zilliax could be useful, but the rest seem mostly niche so far. We haven't seen any real build-around legendaries so far, mostly stuff that has single effects, so maybe things will change a bit.

The final card reveal livestream was also announced:

Join Game Designer Mike Donais and Sean Day[9] Plott as they dive into the last of The Boomday Projects cards, showcasing their own brand of weird science with some interesting decks weve brewed up for the stream.

The stream goes live on Blizzard's Twitch channel Wednesday, August 1 at 10:00 am PT. Be sure to follow us to be notified when we go live!

It's a bit earlier this expansion since there's the pre-release event on Friday of that week, and the set goes live the next Tuesday.
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LiquidOshawott posted...

Then again Im worried about Floop making Druid super overpowered again so D:

I'm more than worried.
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Druid so far this expansion...

1 Mana Nourish
4 Mana Malygos
4 Mana Sprint
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You put me against a brand new Hearthstone player (with access to all the cards) and i will beat them 9 times out of 10 because i have have more knowledge(skill) than them at hearthstone. This is not debatable.

On the flip side you finish around rank 5 each month having reasonably consistent win rates against the similarly skilled people it matches you against, all this in spite of what you claim to be absurd variance in draw rng and other random effects.

So in my scenario skill will dictate a 90/10 advantage no matter what.

In your scenario complete rng fuckery has resulted in a near 50% winrate.

So tell me again which one is more important.

micdrop.gif
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Id say variance and that some new players are just good makes the split a little worse than 90:10.
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Camden posted...

LiquidOshawott posted...

Then again Im worried about Floop making Druid super overpowered again so D:

I'm more than worried.

Yeah the Psychmelon card basically confirms it

though what would the legendary spell even be when they literally have UI
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Again? Druid already is overpowered.
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I've pretty much always thought spreading plague is the most vile card printed in the history of hearthstone, so seeing all of the druid hate lately is A+
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https://image.ibb.co/h8FEDo/download.png
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"Drawing cards is powerful in Hearthstone, and Ancient of Lore easily found its way into nearly every popular Druid deck. We?d like Druid players to feel that other cards can compete with Ancient of Lore, so we?ve reduced the number of cards drawn from 2 to 1."
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Druid is one of my main classes and even I admit Plague is a dumb design. It's the same problem as Unleash the Hounds except on an even more dumb fuckoff effect. Worst part is that you almost need it to win as Druid against the most efficient aggro decks. The dichotomy of "did I draw my tech card" vs "did they draw their tech card (Ripper/Devolve)" isn't super exciting.

Melon is a huge consistency boost for Tog druid in Wild, but I'm not as concerned as reddit because Dirty Rat murders that deck. Same kind of lame tech gameplay though. I can't speak for Standard.
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Toast put a video out today of the Shudderwock/Boar OTK I was using when the set first came out, appropriately named the deck Worst Idea Ever. I don't need to watch the rest of the video to know how true that is.
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Shudderwock and worst idea ever are just a match made in heaven.
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