Poll of the Day > Okay some serious shit happened to my friend and he is in jail

(+) Yeah! (+)

one of my best friends.

According to the mother of another friend(who came to find me at work) he is in jail because of allegations he raped one of the children he babysits for.

Now I dont have much information other than talking to her for a few minutes and reading one news report(his photo is in all the local news outlets), so i cant say much.

My initial reaction was shock, thinking there is no way he would do this. when he would mention his babysitting i never once got any sort of creepy vibes from him.

Time will tell if he is innocent or guilty. Like I said my initial reaction was one of shock and disbelief. But I dont have much information at the moment so I dont even have an informed opinion outside me being one of his best friends and thus, biased.

if he is guilty his name deserves to be ruined, but if it turns out he didnt do the alleged crimes, then his life will still likely be ruined.

Bail is ten Gs large.

this is really shitty. i dont know what the fuck is going on.

Bullish!t
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lets say my friend is innocent and didnt do anything wrong. Obviously i dont know at the moment what happened, but if he is innocent hes looking at lengthy, costly court battles that will effectively remove several years of his life.

god damn

Why would a child rapist hint at their activities?
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Sounds very serious, and I doubt the family would set him up on something like this. Unless ypur friend is rich or he really pissed them off. I am sure it actually happened. Either way innocent or guilty, your friend will never escape from this and he won't be able to find a job ever. His life is ruined.
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I dont mean to be a buzzkill or anything, but your friend is probably guilty.

What makes you think he is? just curious.

ive never met the family he babysat for making these allegations. closest ive gotten is seeing a photo of the two boys he would watch, but thats it.

argonautweakend posted...

What makes you think he is? just curious.

ive never met the family he babysat for making these allegations. closest ive gotten is seeing a photo of the two boys he would watch, but thats it.

Why would the family accuse him of it? The only way he isn't guilty is either the kids lying. The parents are psycho and just want his head, or he got caught in a really weird position when the parents walked in.

But even if he is innocent, his life is fucked over and no one will ever believe that he isn't a child molester and he probably will be a registered sec offender, even if innocent. Your friend will have no life after this. He is fucked. Sorry about your friend dude.
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Most rape and sexual assault allegations are not false.
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argonautweakend posted...

My initial reaction was shock, thinking there is no way he would do this. when he would mention his babysitting i never once got any sort of creepy vibes from him.

Well, you can never really tell and you certainly don't want to believe it.

argonautweakend posted...

if he is guilty his name deserves to be ruined, but if it turns out he didnt do the alleged crimes, then his life will still likely be ruined.

Pretty much. It's why the US should probably consider some law shielding defendants' identities until they're convicted, at least in the case of certain crimes.

yutterh posted...

Sounds very serious, and I doubt the family would set him up on something like this. Unless ypur friend is rich or he really pissed them off. I am sure it actually happened. Either way innocent or guilty, your friend will never escape from this and he won't be able to find a job ever. His life is ruined.

You're assuming malice on the part of the parents (which doesn't necessarily need to be there for a bad allegation) and, more importantly, playing into the stigma of guilty-even-if-found-innocent-beyond-the-shadow-of-a-doubt that comes with these kinds of crimes. You know, the very thing you almost seem to criticize at the end of your post.
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yeah, i know most allegations like this arent untruthful, so im really just waiting to hear more as I go along and not really making any definitive calls at the moment.

i did check his facebook page and one person already posted an article from the local news and called him a sick fuck...which might be true but at the moment we dont know. Not gonna post anything in response because my friend could have done it, i dont have a clue right now so im just kinda playing it safe.

Zeus posted...

argonautweakend posted...

My initial reaction was shock, thinking there is no way he would do this. when he would mention his babysitting i never once got any sort of creepy vibes from him.

Well, you can never really tell and you certainly don't want to believe it.

argonautweakend posted...

if he is guilty his name deserves to be ruined, but if it turns out he didnt do the alleged crimes, then his life will still likely be ruined.

Pretty much. It's why the US should probably consider some law shielding defendants' identities until they're convicted, at least in the case of certain crimes.

yutterh posted...

Sounds very serious, and I doubt the family would set him up on something like this. Unless ypur friend is rich or he really pissed them off. I am sure it actually happened. Either way innocent or guilty, your friend will never escape from this and he won't be able to find a job ever. His life is ruined.

You're assuming malice on the part of the parents (which doesn't necessarily need to be there for a bad allegation) and, more importantly, playing into the stigma of guilty-even-if-found-innocent-beyond-the-shadow-of-a-doubt that comes with these kinds of crimes. You know, the very thing you almost seem to criticize at the end of your post.

Yes, I am assuming malice if the allegation is bad. How many of these are false accusations in general anyways? But I don't know any false allegations where either the parent or the kid had malice. Has there been false allegations that have had no malice and were overturned? How many child molestation allegations been overturned with the accused not having their lives ruined?

I have had first hand experience with two friends. One was accused of sexually assault and got put on the list for 10 years, it is almost impossible for him to get a job and it's hard for him to hold them when be does.

My other friend possibly raped a chick but no chargers were brought up on him. Some think it was regret sex, some think they were both just drunk, and some think he raped her. But he got lucky and it didn't go to court.

The first friend, I am sure he may have said something without realizing it. But didn't deserve the charge. The other I don't know what to make of the story, at first I was on his side but then more facts came put and it was blurry, I think it was regret sex but he denies it ever happened. But it's been years so I may be getting some facts wrong.
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That sucks. And while most allegations may be true, I wouldn't just assume that he did it. That's how people's lives get ruined. While it should be innocent until proven guilty, it's not really like that anymore. It might have never been like that, tbh. Anyway, I hope he's innocent. But even if he is, it still sucks. He life will most likely be ruined. And even if he can fix it, it can take years to do so.

Anyway, it could be the kids lying if they were mad at him for something... depending on age. It could be the parents if they were mad about something. Or maybe he's rich. Or he might have some money if they are really in need of some. I mean, this is pretty extreme if they just needed money. But you never know...
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LinkPizza posted...

That sucks. And while most allegations may be true, I wouldn't just assume that he did it. That's how people's lives get ruined. While it should be innocent until proven guilty, it's not really like that anymore. It might have never been like that, tbh. Anyway, I hope he's innocent. But even if he is, it still sucks. He life will most likely be ruined. And even if he can fix it, it can take years to do so.

Anyway, it could be the kids lying if they were mad at him for something... depending on age. It could be the parents if they were mad about something. Or maybe he's rich. Or he might have some money if they are really in need of some. I mean, this is pretty extreme if they just needed money. But you never know...

I think we are in a world where rape, or sexual harassment allegations are more of a guilt until proven innocent thing. If someone gets accused of theft, or robbing a bank, etc... I think we are still in an innocent until proven guilty world. Now how the courts and juries view each case is more vital than others going off the rails the second an allegation gets laid out.
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How old is your friend, and how old is the kid he allegedly raped?

26. and there are two children, i dont know if the allegations are against only one or both but i think ages 4-8 or something.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Why would a child rapist hint at their activities?

Same reason hundreds of them would still get caught by Chris Hansen.

They usually aren't the brightest of bulbs.
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argonautweakend posted...

ten Gs large

So, 100,000,000?

Ten large is 10,000
Ten Gs is also 10,000

So wouldn't Ten Gs large be 100,000,000?
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i might not be 100% current on my slang terms for money but ten thousand dollars.

Monopoman posted...

LinkPizza posted...

That sucks. And while most allegations may be true, I wouldn't just assume that he did it. That's how people's lives get ruined. While it should be innocent until proven guilty, it's not really like that anymore. It might have never been like that, tbh. Anyway, I hope he's innocent. But even if he is, it still sucks. He life will most likely be ruined. And even if he can fix it, it can take years to do so.

Anyway, it could be the kids lying if they were mad at him for something... depending on age. It could be the parents if they were mad about something. Or maybe he's rich. Or he might have some money if they are really in need of some. I mean, this is pretty extreme if they just needed money. But you never know...

I think we are in a world where rape, or sexual harassment allegations are more of a guilt until proven innocent thing. If someone gets accused of theft, or robbing a bank, etc... I think we are still in an innocent until proven guilty world. Now how the courts and juries view each case is more vital than others going off the rails the second an allegation gets laid out.

Probably. But cases or sexual nature and murder are both very guilty until proven innocent(Which means legally innocent, but lots of people still might think you did it). And those are the two that can ruin you life. Theft is also bad, but you can usually recover easier. Either way, it still kinda sucks that all it takes is an allegation to ruin your life. Even if you're innocent, a false allegation basically means you're not...

argonautweakend posted...

i might not be 100% current on my slang terms for money but ten thousand dollars.

I figured...
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yutterh posted...

Yes, I am assuming malice if the allegation is bad. How many of these are false accusations in general anyways?

With children and overprotective parents in this highly charged age, you can get a large number of malice-free bad allegations. And while the guilty can go free, the innocent also wind up going to jail because many of these trials are based more on testimony than physical evidence.

yutterh posted...

Has there been false allegations that have had no malice and were overturned?

Unless the child later recanted or the investigators got in trouble over a similar case, probably none.

yutterh posted...

How many child molestation allegations been overturned with the accused not having their lives ruined?

Well, as soon as an accusation hits a newspaper, you're already guilty in the court of public opinion. Which, again, is why defendants should have some protections.

yutterh posted...

My other friend possibly raped a chick but no chargers were brought up on him. Some think it was regret sex, some think they were both just drunk, and some think he raped her. But he got lucky and it didn't go to court.

The first friend, I am sure he may have said something without realizing it. But didn't deserve the charge. The other I don't know what to make of the story, at first I was on his side but then more facts came put and it was blurry, I think it was regret sex but he denies it ever happened. But it's been years so I may be getting some facts wrong.

One more reason not to drink and to discourage others from doing the same.

LinkPizza posted...

Anyway, it could be the kids lying if they were mad at him for something... depending on age. It could be the parents if they were mad about something. Or maybe he's rich. Or he might have some money if they are really in need of some. I mean, this is pretty extreme if they just needed money. But you never know...

Or the kid can show signs that may suggest abuse for whatever reason, the parents can immediately suspect the worst because we live in an age of high-profile sex abuse cases, investigators can either intentionally or inadvertently coax false testimony out of the child (such as asking questions which create a narrative in the child's mind), and by the time it reaches a judge, everybody is convinced that something absolutely happened even if it didn't. And a lot of it is completely well-intentioned, since child welfare is a serious issue, children are particularly vulnerable to abuse, and abuse cases are aren't that uncommon.

LinkPizza posted...

Probably. But cases or sexual nature and murder are both very guilty until proven innocent(Which means legally innocent, but lots of people still might think you did it)

It's worse with sex crimes because it often relies far less on physical evidence and more just on testimony. And while it's usually easy to establish that a murder happened (thanks to having a body), oftentimes the only evidence you have of a sex crime happening is the word of the accuser (who, in the case of child sex crimes, may not even be the person allegedly impacted).
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Zeus posted...

One more reason not to drink and to discourage others from doing the same.

Or just don't have sex drunk. Not that hard, honestly...

Also, don't have sex with someone while they're drunk...
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LinkPizza posted...

Zeus posted...

One more reason not to drink and to discourage others from doing the same.

Or just don't have sex drunk. Not that hard, honestly...

Also, don't have sex with someone while they're drunk...

What if both parties are drunk and both consent

Are both parties allowed to cry rape after the fact?
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LinkPizza posted...

Zeus posted...

One more reason not to drink and to discourage others from doing the same.

Or just don't have sex drunk. Not that hard, honestly...

Also, don't have sex with someone while they're drunk...

Given that drinking impairs decision-making and blurs events after the fact, easier said than done.

Muffinz0rz posted...

What if both parties are drunk and both consent

Are both parties allowed to cry rape after the fact?

Silly Muffinz, non-statutory sex laws only punish men!
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Zeus posted...

Muffinz0rz posted...

What if both parties are drunk and both consent

Are both parties allowed to cry rape after the fact?

Silly Muffinz, non-statutory sex laws only punish men!

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Muffinz0rz posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Zeus posted...

One more reason not to drink and to discourage others from doing the same.

Or just don't have sex drunk. Not that hard, honestly...

Also, don't have sex with someone while they're drunk...

What if both parties are drunk and both consent

Are both parties allowed to cry rape after the fact?

I remember it was said that you can't legally consent if you're drunk. Or not sober or whatever. There are a lot of mature adults who can have sex drunk. But if you don't have sex drunk or with a drunk person, it just you covering your own ass. Like if someone has sex with you drunk and regrets it, they can call rape. Same if someone had sex with you, then realized you were someone different. It's rape. And while I don't want this to sound sexist, it is usually in favor of the female...
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LinkPizza posted...

Muffinz0rz posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Zeus posted...

One more reason not to drink and to discourage others from doing the same.

Or just don't have sex drunk. Not that hard, honestly...

Also, don't have sex with someone while they're drunk...

What if both parties are drunk and both consent

Are both parties allowed to cry rape after the fact?

I remember it was said that you can't legally consent if you're drunk. Or not sober or whatever. There are a lot of mature adults who can have sex drunk. But if you don't have sex drunk or with a drunk person, it just you covering your own ass. Like if someone has sex with you drunk and regrets it, they can call rape. Same if someone had sex with you, then realized you were someone different. It's rape. And while I don't want this to sound sexist, it is usually in favor of the female...

Well, the laws are pretty explicitly sexist so you don't have to worry about sounding it yourself.
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Rest assured that investigators generally know what they are doing and have experience looking for any red flags to determine guilt or innocence.

I was accused of rape in the workplace by a patient with dementia. It was incredibly stressful and scary but I did everything my employer told me to do and let the investigators do their job and I was able to go back to work the following week.

Sometimes the system fails but chances are your friend will either get the punishment he deserves or get his name cleared.
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Mead posted...

Rest assured that investigators generally know what they are doing and have experience looking for any red flags to determine guilt or innocence.

I was accused of rape in the workplace by a patient with dementia. It was incredibly stressful and scary but I did everything my employer told me to do and let the investigators do their job and I was able to go back to work the following week.

Sometimes the system fails but chances are your friend will either get the punishment he deserves or get his name cleared.

It depends. I think that the investigators probably will find out whether he did it or not. But when it comes to his name getting cleared, there's a lot of other things that affect that. I mean, he's already got people calling him a "sick fuck" even though they probably know nothing about the case except what the papers or news say. You may have some people apologize, and may still have some who will always think you did it, even if it was proven other-wise. And this will still stain his record, most likely...

But it could always turn out differently. Either way, I hope everything works out the best it can. It's a shitty situation for all involved...
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LinkPizza posted...

Mead posted...

Rest assured that investigators generally know what they are doing and have experience looking for any red flags to determine guilt or innocence.

I was accused of rape in the workplace by a patient with dementia. It was incredibly stressful and scary but I did everything my employer told me to do and let the investigators do their job and I was able to go back to work the following week.

Sometimes the system fails but chances are your friend will either get the punishment he deserves or get his name cleared.

It depends. I think that the investigators probably will find out whether he did it or not. But when it comes to his name getting cleared, there's a lot of other things that affect that. I mean, he's already got people calling him a "sick fuck" even though they probably know nothing about the case except what the papers or news say. You may have some people apologize, and may still have some who will always think you did it, even if it was proven other-wise. And this will still stain his record, most likely...

But it could always turn out differently. Either way, I hope everything works out the best it can. It's a shitty situation for all involved...

Agreed
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yutterh posted...

Sounds very serious, and I doubt the family would set him up on something like this. Unless ypur friend is rich or he really pissed them off. I am sure it actually happened. Either way innocent or guilty, your friend will never escape from this and he won't be able to find a job ever. His life is ruined.

Doesnt he know in western society there are certain jobs men just CANNOT do without female supervision due to suspicions and false alligations that will always be seen as true due to society being trained to be fearful and suspicious of men?

I wouldnt go into childcare or teaching as a career for all the money in the world in the west.

Im terribly sorry if this is not true.
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Honestly even if he is guilty he'll probably be able to cut a deal for a&b of some kind and get out in 2.5 (less with good time) years.
I have a guy in my worker pod who raped his kid, he plead to a&b and got 6 months.

Depending on the evidence, would you consider it a good idea to stand as a character witness?
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Hopefully he doesn't get his wig split or his cheeks busted

ASlaveObeys posted...

Honestly even if he is guilty he'll probably be able to cut a deal for a&b of some kind and get out in 2.5 (less with good time) years.
I have a guy in my worker pod who raped his kid, he plead to a&b and got 6 months.

And defend a suspected child rapist?

Have you been watching the news?
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This is terrible, don't know what to think about.
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bulbinking posted...

ASlaveObeys posted...

Honestly even if he is guilty he'll probably be able to cut a deal for a&b of some kind and get out in 2.5 (less with good time) years.
I have a guy in my worker pod who raped his kid, he plead to a&b and got 6 months.

And defend a suspected child rapist?

Have you been watching the news?

What? I deal with these guys everyday.
I don't know what you're saying about defending.

I would definitely be a character witness. I couldnt offer much else because I have never met this family he babysits for or the children.

I spent about 3 hours talking to another friend of mine who is his best friend, and he doesnt know much at all right now, like I. My thoughts are at the moment that I will fight for my friend as long as need be, but if evidence in the court of law comes out he did abuse the children he will be cut from my life for good.

first step seems to be us finding out how we can contact his social worker in prison. We are also going to contact at some point(though not before we are sure this is a good idea) a previous man he babysat for and see what his thoughts are. This man seemed to really respect my friend, so we'll see.

ultimately this is upsetting either way because if he is innocent he's done for, because nobody will care when the news releases a 30 second blurb about him being found innocent months/years from now. On facebook even one person posted on his wall calling him a piece of shit and that people need to know who he is....while posting the link to a local news station where they use heavy language and seem a little light on the use of the word "alleged" because of course at this moment nothing either way is proven.

argonautweakend posted...

We are also going to contact at some point(though not before we are sure this is a good idea) a previous man he babysat for and see what his thoughts are.

why? this is not for you to do. you are not detectives.
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Jen0125 posted...

argonautweakend posted...

We are also going to contact at some point(though not before we are sure this is a good idea) a previous man he babysat for and see what his thoughts are.

why? this is not for you to do. you are not detectives.

I get what you're saying, but they are just trying to help their friend. Depending on what the cops think, they may not contact him. Or if they do, and the other guy has only good things to say, they wouldn't want him at the trial. Detectives are usually on the side of the prosecutor. So, this could be a good idea if it really comes down to it... possibly... Or the other guy may start thinking that his children were abused, too. Which is probably why they said if it's a good idea. At least they are trying to look out for their friend...
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not really sure what to do right now.

ultimately until i get more information i am not doing much of anything except trying to get into contact with his social worker at the prison, and i think he has a preliminary something or other on june 6th so im going to try to go to that if i can.

argonautweakend posted...

not really sure what to do right now.

ultimately until i get more information i am not doing much of anything except trying to get into contact with his social worker at the prison, and i think he has a preliminary something or other on june 6th so im going to try to go to that if i can.

You don't do anything except support your friend. You shouldn't contact anyone. You're not the police or a detective. That's not up to you.

LinkPizza posted...

Detectives are usually on the side of the prosecutor.

What? Detectives are investigating if there is a crime. They on anyone's side.
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argonautweakend posted...

lets say my friend is innocent and didnt do anything wrong. Obviously i dont know at the moment what happened, but if he is innocent hes looking at lengthy, costly court battles that will effectively remove several years of his life.

god damn

If he wins, the other party will have to reimburse is court costs... But still.
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i want to try to get into contact with his social worker to see if i can get some idea of the situation. i dont know a whole lot aside from news reports at the moment.

but ultimately the best thing to do would be to play it safe, i think. im going to think this over and not make any hasty moves without consulting his family. i havent spoken to his mother yet, so i dont know how she is feeling. all ive spoken to is his best friend and the mother of his best friend.

Jen0125 posted...

What? Detectives are investigating if there is a crime. They on anyone's side.

They're not suppose to be bias, but a good amount are. They even said that sometimes, when people confess, they only look for evidence convicting that person. But that person sometimes only confessed because they wanted to go home after being there for so long with no real sleep and in a stressful situation. And they thought they even if they confessed, the police would find more evidence and prove it wasn't them. But in the end, while they shouldn't be biased and only look for all the evidence, some are. Not to mention, it is quite possible they might just overlook that other family he babysat for by accident. I agree that his friends should have to play detective. But I also think that them helping their friend in a good idea, too. At the very least, they can remind their friend of the other guy and let he lawyer do something about it.
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

argonautweakend posted...

lets say my friend is innocent and didnt do anything wrong. Obviously i dont know at the moment what happened, but if he is innocent hes looking at lengthy, costly court battles that will effectively remove several years of his life.

god damn

If he wins, the other party will have to reimburse is court costs... But still.

You can get court cost back, but he still has to deal with everything else...
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LinkPizza posted...

They're not suppose to be bias, but a good amount are. They even said that sometimes, when people confess, they only look for evidence convicting that person.

Source with statistics that show this is an actual problem.
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Jen0125 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

They're not suppose to be bias, but a good amount are. They even said that sometimes, when people confess, they only look for evidence convicting that person.

Source with statistics that show this is an actual problem.

If you don't believe me, that's fine. I don't want to find it again. This is stuff I found when I had all night to go from one link to another looking up stuff. I was problem pretty deep in it somewhere. I could probably find something similar, but this was like a couple years ago when I first started learning a little more about this...

Anyway, I still agree that helping their friend in some compacity is fine. I do think that they shouldn't do anything without permission, but...
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a news report i saw just now said police believe he has abused other children.

I dont know what they are basing that off of since the article gives no further clarification. Maybe he said something suspect? not really sure what to think.

Jen0125 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

They're not suppose to be bias, but a good amount are. They even said that sometimes, when people confess, they only look for evidence convicting that person.

Source with statistics that show this is an actual problem.

My dad was in federal law enforcement for 38 years and never held a bias. Granted, he's a lot more uptight about rules than most people. My general interpretation of things is that cops don't really like any lawyers, regardless.
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