Poll of the Day > The game is free...

(+) Yeah! (+)

O_o
---

It honestly annoys me how people go nuts over the loot box issue, if you dont like loot boxes dont buy loot boxes. Simple.
---

as long as it isn't pay-to-win lootboxes in pvp, idgaf.

you are not forced to buy them.
they are not gambling
---

J_Dawg983 posted...

It honestly annoys me how people go nuts over the loot box issue, if you dont like loot boxes dont buy loot boxes. Simple.

Wanna know why people go nuts?

Krazy_Kirby posted...

pay-to-win lootboxes

People have put 1 and 1 together so many times. No you aren't forced to buy it but when you deliberately lower chances of something occurring in order to make it more tempting for people to buy an item or whatever to increase the chance of said something occurring, people see the rubbish
---

If the game's free then it's probably shit so idgaf.
---

If the items in the lootbox give you an edge over other players (i.e. it's pay to win) then it sucks.

if the items in the lootbox are for convenience (i.e. extra storage space) or cosmetic then it's annoying, but at least understandable in a F2P game.

This really goes for any microtransactions.

if the game is not free, has lootboxes that influence your character (giving them an edge), and the game is designed in which lootboxes are highly encouraged (e.g. Shadows of Modor) then it sucks too.
---

Zangulus posted...

Being optional to purchase has zero effect on their status as a gamble.

QFT
---

Krazy_Kirby posted...

they are not gambling

Actually they are by definition.
---

Revelation34 posted...

Krazy_Kirby posted...

they are not gambling

Actually they are by definition.

guaranteed returns.
---

Revelation34 posted...

Krazy_Kirby posted...

they are not gambling

Actually they are by definition.

TO BE FAIR...they're kind of like buying a blind bag. You're definitely getting SOMETHING, it just may not be worth what you put into it. An actual gamble has a real chance with you leaving with nothing at all.
---

Zangulus posted...

Krazy_Kirby posted...

you are not forced to buy them.
they are not gambling

Lolwut...

So youre saying blackjack, poker, and craps arent gambling because you arent forced to play them? Lololol.

No. Loot boxes are definitely gambling. Youre paying money for a chance to get something worth it. Countries are starting to make companies treat them as such.

Being optional to purchase has zero effect on their status as a gamble.

Well, that's assuming you paid for it. I've opened hundreds and hundreds of loot boxes in Overwatch. And haven't paid for one. If that she gambling, then playing an RPG where enemies drop items would be like gambling. Some enemies drop an item that sometimes has like a 1% drop rate. And people will keep fighting it trying to get it. And if that's also gambling, then the word gambling starts t lose some of it's meaning...

As for the main question, I don't mind them. As long as they are cosmetic only. Something like Overwatch(as least since the last time I played). They were costumes, voice lines, spray paint, etc... Things that don't give anyone an edge... and you could also get tons of them for free...
---

Zangulus posted...

Krazy_Kirby posted...

you are not forced to buy them.
they are not gambling

Lolwut...

So youre saying blackjack, poker, and craps arent gambling because you arent forced to play them? Lololol.

No. Loot boxes are definitely gambling. Youre paying money for a chance to get something worth it. Countries are starting to make companies treat them as such.

Being optional to purchase has zero effect on their status as a gamble.

those two points are separate. people complain about them but they aren't forced to buy them.

and it isn't gambling. you always get something back.
---

Krazy_Kirby posted...

and it isn't gambling. you always get something back.

Irrelevant.

gamble
amb()l/
verb

take risky action in the hope of a desired result.
"he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel"
synonyms:take a chance, take a risk, take a leap in the dark, leave things to chance

You risk money for a chance of a desired result, you gamble your money.
---

Zangulus posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Zangulus posted...

Krazy_Kirby posted...

you are not forced to buy them.
they are not gambling

Lolwut...

So youre saying blackjack, poker, and craps arent gambling because you arent forced to play them? Lololol.

No. Loot boxes are definitely gambling. Youre paying money for a chance to get something worth it. Countries are starting to make companies treat them as such.

Being optional to purchase has zero effect on their status as a gamble.

Well, that's assuming you paid for it. I've opened hundreds and hundreds of loot boxes in Overwatch. And haven't paid for one. If that she gambling, then playing an RPG where enemies drop items would be like gambling. Some enemies drop an item that sometimes has like a 1% drop rate. And people will keep fighting it trying to get it. And if that's also gambling, then the word gambling starts t lose some of it's meaning...

Youre purposefully obfuscating the point. Free loot boxes has never been apart of this conversation and you know it. Even Overwatch isnt really apart of it because theyre purely cosmetic items. That does not mean not paying for them means theyre not gambling.

Trying to shoehorn drop rates of in game mobs is completely outside of this to the point its nearly worthless to respond to.

But you're putting all lootboxes in the same boat. And they.'re not all the same. And even if Overwatch charges, you can also win lots of them for free. All lootboxes aren't the same, yet in this topic, it makes it sound like they are...
---

LinkPizza posted...

Zangulus posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Zangulus posted...

Krazy_Kirby posted...

you are not forced to buy them.
they are not gambling

Lolwut...

So youre saying blackjack, poker, and craps arent gambling because you arent forced to play them? Lololol.

No. Loot boxes are definitely gambling. Youre paying money for a chance to get something worth it. Countries are starting to make companies treat them as such.

Being optional to purchase has zero effect on their status as a gamble.

Well, that's assuming you paid for it. I've opened hundreds and hundreds of loot boxes in Overwatch. And haven't paid for one. If that she gambling, then playing an RPG where enemies drop items would be like gambling. Some enemies drop an item that sometimes has like a 1% drop rate. And people will keep fighting it trying to get it. And if that's also gambling, then the word gambling starts t lose some of it's meaning...

Youre purposefully obfuscating the point. Free loot boxes has never been apart of this conversation and you know it. Even Overwatch isnt really apart of it because theyre purely cosmetic items. That does not mean not paying for them means theyre not gambling.

Trying to shoehorn drop rates of in game mobs is completely outside of this to the point its nearly worthless to respond to.

But you're putting all lootboxes in the same boat. And they.'re not all the same. And even if Overwatch charges, you can also win lots of them for free. All lootboxes aren't the same, yet in this topic, it makes it sound like they are...

Linkpizza has said pretty much everything I want to. Just want to reinstate the point that not all lootboxes are bad solely based on the fact that they are lootboxes.

Overwatch implements them in the best way possible. Legendaries aren't too difficult to get, it's easy to earn the loot boxes in game, and everything you get out of them are purely cosmetic.

That being said there is a problem with loot boxes such as not just cosmetics (looking at you cod ahem) loot boxes being an early access (looking at you pubg), artificial inflation such as having items have a .001% drop rate, and no possible way to earn them in game.

As others have said, it depends on how they're implemented.
---

As long as the free content is good, I see no problem.
---

not my cup of tea so I won't play it. I only get mad at lootboxes though when they get forced into a game that they have no business being in. even not costing real money loot boxes in injustice 2 annoy me. I deal with it because its free, but still annoying.
---

Even in a free game, I don't like the concept. There are other ways to monetize besides lootboxes anyway.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Krazy_Kirby posted...

and it isn't gambling. you always get something back.

Irrelevant.

gamble
amb()l/
verb

take risky action in the hope of a desired result.
"he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel"
synonyms:take a chance, take a risk, take a leap in the dark, leave things to chance

You risk money for a chance of a desired result, you gamble your money.

Then why aren't trading cards regulated like gambling? Or gumballs from a supermarket? Clearly you have a desired outcome that you won't always get.
---

The game is free... but are the loot boxes free? The issue with loot boxes is 2-fold.
First is the atrocious practice of including of a micro-transaction system in a paid game.
Second is paying for something and not knowing what you'll get in return for the expense.
---

If the lootboxes affect gameplay at all I'll steer clear, no tolerance for that nonsense. If they're purely cosmetic I'm still not completely comfortable with the practice, but I'll deal with it for what is otherwise a fantastic business model.

Not sure why people keep bringing up overwatch when it's not a free game. Companies double dipping by putting f2p mechanics in games that already charge up front is an entirely different can of worms.
---

funkyfritter posted...

If the lootboxes affect gameplay at all I'll steer clear, no tolerance for that nonsense. If they're purely cosmetic I'm still not completely comfortable with the practice, but I'll deal with it for what is otherwise a fantastic business model.

Not sure why people keep bringing up overwatch when it's not a free game. Companies double dipping by putting f2p mechanics in games that already charge up front is an entirely different can of worms.

yeah thats part of why I deal with it in injustice. it does affect fighter stats, but not so much so it breaks the game imo, and if it does you can turn gear stats off. and once you turn gear stats off its literally just cosmetics.
---

I don't mind lootboxes as long as theyre completely optional like in TF2 (is that where they originated?) and you can sell or trade them off to others who might want them

funkyfritter posted...

If the lootboxes affect gameplay at all I'll steer clear, no tolerance for that nonsense. If they're purely cosmetic I'm still not completely comfortable with the practice, but I'll deal with it for what is otherwise a fantastic business model.

Not sure why people keep bringing up overwatch when it's not a free game. Companies double dipping by putting f2p mechanics in games that already charge up front is an entirely different can of worms.

There is no can of worms since they're literally just cosmetics in the boxes.
---

Revelation34 posted...

funkyfritter posted...

If the lootboxes affect gameplay at all I'll steer clear, no tolerance for that nonsense. If they're purely cosmetic I'm still not completely comfortable with the practice, but I'll deal with it for what is otherwise a fantastic business model.

Not sure why people keep bringing up overwatch when it's not a free game. Companies double dipping by putting f2p mechanics in games that already charge up front is an entirely different can of worms.

There is no can of worms since they're literally just cosmetics in the boxes.

What I believe they are trying to say is that since you pay for the game, it's different. But only because they were talking about a free game that sells you lootboxes vs other lootboxes(I guess). But I don't agree with that line of thinking if that is what they were trying to say. The lootbox concept is still the same. Whether you pay for the game or not. As they said, that just means the company can double dip.
---

LinkPizza posted...

Revelation34 posted...

funkyfritter posted...

If the lootboxes affect gameplay at all I'll steer clear, no tolerance for that nonsense. If they're purely cosmetic I'm still not completely comfortable with the practice, but I'll deal with it for what is otherwise a fantastic business model.

Not sure why people keep bringing up overwatch when it's not a free game. Companies double dipping by putting f2p mechanics in games that already charge up front is an entirely different can of worms.

There is no can of worms since they're literally just cosmetics in the boxes.

What I believe they are trying to say is that since you pay for the game, it's different. But only because they were talking about a free game that sells you lootboxes vs other lootboxes(I guess). But I don't agree with that line of thinking if that is what they were trying to say. The lootbox concept is still the same. Whether you pay for the game or not. As they said, that just means the company can double dip.

and i'd rather just have the selection put in front of me and me pay for exactly what I want if i'm going to be paying either way.
---

mooreandrew58 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Revelation34 posted...

funkyfritter posted...

If the lootboxes affect gameplay at all I'll steer clear, no tolerance for that nonsense. If they're purely cosmetic I'm still not completely comfortable with the practice, but I'll deal with it for what is otherwise a fantastic business model.

Not sure why people keep bringing up overwatch when it's not a free game. Companies double dipping by putting f2p mechanics in games that already charge up front is an entirely different can of worms.

There is no can of worms since they're literally just cosmetics in the boxes.

What I believe they are trying to say is that since you pay for the game, it's different. But only because they were talking about a free game that sells you lootboxes vs other lootboxes(I guess). But I don't agree with that line of thinking if that is what they were trying to say. The lootbox concept is still the same. Whether you pay for the game or not. As they said, that just means the company can double dip.

and i'd rather just have the selection put in front of me and me pay for exactly what I want if i'm going to be paying either way.

I would like that, too. That would be nice. But if they have lootboxes, but they is a way to get them for free, and all the items are cosmetic, I'll be fine with it. Especially if duplicate items still give me a decent amount of in game money. Which I can then use to buy the stuff I want.
---

LinkPizza posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Revelation34 posted...

funkyfritter posted...

If the lootboxes affect gameplay at all I'll steer clear, no tolerance for that nonsense. If they're purely cosmetic I'm still not completely comfortable with the practice, but I'll deal with it for what is otherwise a fantastic business model.

Not sure why people keep bringing up overwatch when it's not a free game. Companies double dipping by putting f2p mechanics in games that already charge up front is an entirely different can of worms.

There is no can of worms since they're literally just cosmetics in the boxes.

What I believe they are trying to say is that since you pay for the game, it's different. But only because they were talking about a free game that sells you lootboxes vs other lootboxes(I guess). But I don't agree with that line of thinking if that is what they were trying to say. The lootbox concept is still the same. Whether you pay for the game or not. As they said, that just means the company can double dip.

and i'd rather just have the selection put in front of me and me pay for exactly what I want if i'm going to be paying either way.

I would like that, too. That would be nice. But if they have lootboxes, but they is a way to get them for free, and all the items are cosmetic, I'll be fine with it. Especially if duplicate items still give me a decent amount of in game money. Which I can then use to buy the stuff I want.

eh its just in injustice 2, it took me sooooo long to get superman, batman and joker looking how I want them. and I technically don't have the joker perfect, just close enough I can deal with it. oh yeah sub-zero too, almost forgot about him but I didn't care as much since he was a guest character
---

What ever happened to making a product and selling it, and that's the end of it?
---

WarGreymon77 posted...

What ever happened to making a product and selling it, and that's the end of it?

Thanks to always-on Internet, publishers can continue to interact with consumers post-purchase. Why not use the opportunity to make a quick buck?
---

Depends on the game.

I Have put around $100 into PoE but I always play for 200 or more hours a league. I don't buy their MTX (Their MTX is expensive) and they do the $3 random cosmetic lockbox shit which have items which rarely make up for it. Plus their MTX is horribly expensive ($30 for a cosmetic armor set or a pair of Wings).

Warframe's Lootboxes on the other hand are never worth buying (Mod Packs) and Plat is pretty pricey, but the game basically doles out Plat like candy to anyone who wants it.
---

I don't care if a game has loot boxes or not, I'll play it as long as it seems interesting. Actually paying for the fuckers though, that is another story. I am not paying real money for a loot box. If the game seems like the kind that won't be enjoyable unless I do, then I'll stop playing it.

It is called self control people, learn it.
---

If a game has loot boxes or a cash shop then it is not free to play.

i don't gamble, so lootboxes are a no-go.
---

J_Dawg983 posted...

It honestly annoys me how people go nuts over the loot box issue, if you dont like loot boxes dont buy loot boxes. Simple.

B-but! Some p-people just cant help it!!!1!

I still cant believe how up in arms people get over this shit.

Even the pay to win games arent really pay to win. When Battlefront II came out, I didnt put a single extra dime into the game (aside from the base game, obviously) and I never had any problems playing the game, winning, doing well. Well just because YOU didn't have any problems, doesnt mean its that way for anyone else!1!!... well, its not like its a difficult game. And I dont even play it very hardcore either.

I was just like this is what people are getting their undies in a twist and having [blank] screeching shitfits over?

Dont buy them. Literally as simple as that.
---

rexcrk posted...

J_Dawg983 posted...

It honestly annoys me how people go nuts over the loot box issue, if you dont like loot boxes dont buy loot boxes. Simple.

B-but! Some p-people just cant help it!!!1!

I still cant believe how up in arms people get over this shit.

Even the pay to win games arent really pay to win. When Battlefront II came out, I didnt put a single extra dime into the game (aside from the base game, obviously) and I never had any problems playing the game, winning, doing well. Well just because YOU didn't have any problems, doesnt mean its that way for anyone else!1!!... well, its not like its a difficult game. And I dont even play it very hardcore either.

I was just like this is what people are getting their undies in a twist and having [blank] screeching shitfits over?

Dont buy them. Literally as simple as that.

But the game might be shit if you dont.
---

Um, it's not "gambling" in the common sense (i.e. - betting money where you're not guaranteed to win anything in return) but is definitely a gamble.

Like, I wouldn't go so far as to compare it to poker, blackjack, or even a slot machine but it's still in the same ball park.

It's closer to buying a pack of pokemon/yugioh cards than it is to gambling. You might get something good, you might get crap, but you always get something.

Seems fair to me.
---

Bacon_Pancakes posted...

Um, it's not "gambling" in the common sense (i.e. - betting money where you're not guaranteed to win anything in return) but is definitely a gamble.

Like, I wouldn't go so far as to compare it to poker, blackjack, or even a slot machine but it's still in the same ball park.

It's closer to buying a pack of pokemon/yugioh cards than it is to gambling. You might get something good, you might get crap, but you always get something.

And it's probably better on a certain sense. For some games, you get in game money for duplicates...
---

Zeus posted...

Then why aren't trading cards regulated like gambling? Or gumballs from a supermarket? Clearly you have a desired outcome that you won't always get.

You are told you will get 7 cards and you get 7 cards, their values relative to eachother are subjective. You don't get 1 card 3 cents and some lint, which means one item you would desire from a card pack and many undesirable/lower value items.

Gumballs have an average amount you will get varying by flaw, you are welcome to complain that you didn't get what you paid for but you can't call it gambling.
---

Lootboxes arent fun. Makes it feel like a hassle in overwatch. Unlockables are an important part of gaming. But looking at the thing and holding A makes it a little weird. I wish when I level up the stuff i get just shows up in the gallery
---

MirMiros posted...

If a game has loot boxes or a cash shop then it is not free to play.

I don't think you know what free to play means.

Bacon_Pancakes posted...

Um, it's not "gambling" in the common sense (i.e. - betting money where you're not guaranteed to win anything in return) but is definitely a gamble.

Like, I wouldn't go so far as to compare it to poker, blackjack, or even a slot machine but it's still in the same ball park.

It's closer to buying a pack of pokemon/yugioh cards than it is to gambling. You might get something good, you might get crap, but you always get something.

The definition was already posted. It is gambling.
---