Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 444: The Figure 444 Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

FFDragon posted...

Miz is easily top three in the company now as an overall package of character, talking, and in-ring ability and he really does deserve another crack at the main event scene in a little while.

I think a program with Bryan to culminate the like past six years would be white hot and pull him up into that realm again.

I assume this is full timers only... cause there is no way he's better than Jericho or Cena on average...

But even if not... top 3 seems really high.

Rollins and Joe are definitely above him.

Owens probably is pretty safely as well.

Heel Zayn is a much better talker now so it's hard to say he's not.

And honestly, Am Drag and AJ are SO over and SO good in the ring that it's difficult to say it doesn't still beat Miz on averages just cause they are so much higher than him in those 2 categories, that Miz being a better talker and better at being his character wouldn't make up for it.

oh look, more miz being right and awesome
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RaidenZeroX posted...

http://www.wrestleview.com/wwe-news/104165-the-miz-upset-wwe-title-main-event-ppv-events/

I hope Miz doesn't get a punishment depush for this. He's right though, with the exception of something like maybe a Royal Rumble, the title should always headline. Not a non-title Roman match.

Keep in mind he's doing it in a totally kayfabe way. "If I win the title, they'll have no choice but to put it in the main event." Basically his own self-importance per usual.
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Unlike Punk, who after a while, was almost begging and pleading rather than being in character. Which is fine...but at least Miz is doing it while HE'S NOT CHAMPION! It does't sound nearly as self-serving.
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Rollins lacks character and is lower on talking. Same with Joe.

I won't argue AJ/Bryan, but I personally put him above Owens and Zayn at this point though too. I'd entertain arguments on them though.
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RaidenZeroX posted...

http://www.wrestleview.com/wwe-news/104165-the-miz-upset-wwe-title-main-event-ppv-events/

I hope Miz doesn't get a punishment depush for this. He's right though, with the exception of something like maybe a Royal Rumble, the title should always headline. Not a non-title Roman match.

I assume he'll be fired by tomorrow.

"Well god damn pal, you can beat women, rape them, assualt them, do steroids, sell drugs, do coke in the locker room, cover up killing someone, even do it yourself, but there's one thing we don't tolerate.....

YOU'RE FIRED!!!!"

FFDragon posted...

Rollins lacks character and is lower on talking. Same with Joe.

I won't argue AJ/Bryan, but I personally put him above Owens and Zayn at this point though too. I'd entertain arguments on them though.

I wanna have a discussion on this real quick...

You think Miz is a better talker than Joe?

Unequivocally, yes.
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Miz is a better talker than Joe but Joe is still really good.
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Miz is the better talked, Joe is the better storyteller
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I'm gonna say an unexpected thing and say I think Joe is kind of a better talker than Miz when given bad material to work with. Which unfortunately happens a lot, particularly when Miz is in a feud that should've ended months ago.

Like if Miz is doing a totally stagnant promo he can't really save it. Joe can usually salvage most things just by delivery.

Miz with good stuff to work with is better than Joe though.
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Wow, so these XFL ideas from this survey they sent out. lol

20 second huddles because Vince doesn't have three hours to spare to watch a show.

No face guard so people can see the players' expressions like in wrestling and basketball.

I think this is going to go well. Especially since they can't get anyone to get a team since that other league is already getting teams in all their markets.
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FFDragon posted...

Unequivocally, yes.

TheRock1525 posted...

Miz is a better talker than Joe but Joe is still really good.

We'll just agree to disagree.

I believe every word both of them say, (in a suspension of disbelief type way, not in being a mark and ACTUALLY Believing it of course).

But when Joe talks I also FEEL what he is saying.

That happens rarely with Miz.

To me, every promo Joe cuts is like when Miz went off on Am Drag.

In that moment I absoltely felt what the Miz was saying. And he's had a couple promos like that, another was last year during the Cena fued. It's not to say he can't do it, he certainly can. But to me Joe does it every time.

I would absolutely put the way Joe cuts a promo up there with like a Punk,serious Rock, Jake, Foley, serious Jericho, Dusty and serious Flair.

Now I'm not saying these are the best mic workers of all time (no Austin, Vince, Brain, Savage, Heyman, Cornette, Edge, etc) but I am saying that they had a style where (if they wanted you to in that moment, obviously lots of Rock,Flair, Dusty Jericho and Foley promos were just supposed to be fun come along for the ride) you both believed what they were saying, and you felt it as they were saying it as well.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Wow, so these XFL ideas from this survey they sent out. lol

20 second huddles because Vince doesn't have three hours to spare to watch a show.

No face guard so people can see the players' expressions like in wrestling and basketball.

I think this is going to go well. Especially since they can't get anyone to get a team since that other league is already getting teams in all their markets.

He has to be trolling us, right?

Also, someone is going to die.... no, I'm being serious here, no joke. Someone is going to die in this league if they do that.

RaidenZeroX posted...

http://www.wrestleview.com/wwe-news/104165-the-miz-upset-wwe-title-main-event-ppv-events/

I hope Miz doesn't get a punishment depush for this. He's right though, with the exception of something like maybe a Royal Rumble, the title should always headline. Not a non-title Roman match.

https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/miz-isn-t-defending-ic-title-summerslam-and-he-s-not-happy-about-it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUusZfqqIuI" data-time="

In life, youre always told that if you work hard, if you chip away, if you plug away, and if you do your job, then your moment will come. I am sick of waiting for my moment while two undeserving people like you two get moments week after week after week.

Yay consistency!
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Mega Mana posted...

RaidenZeroX posted...

http://www.wrestleview.com/wwe-news/104165-the-miz-upset-wwe-title-main-event-ppv-events/

I hope Miz doesn't get a punishment depush for this. He's right though, with the exception of something like maybe a Royal Rumble, the title should always headline. Not a non-title Roman match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUusZfqqIuI" data-time="

In life, youre always told that if you work hard, if you chip away, if you plug away, and if you do your job, then your moment will come. I am sick of waiting for my moment while two undeserving people like you two get moments week after week after week.

Yay consistency!

That's another reason Reigns is fucking cancer....

Both from a meta and kayfabe standpoint you can't say that shit about Cena anymore and have it make sense.

From a meta standpoint, Cena did get over huge before being pushed (and consequently not nearly as over).

From a kayfabe standpoint... When was the last time Cena got an undeserved Title shot....?

Cena almost always was challenged by the Chanpion, was Champion, or won a contenders match to get Title shots...

Reigns won a Rumble and this year Chamber...
I litwrally don't think he's ever earned any other Title shot at all.

Id say Joe cuts promos in the STYLE of Jake but much like Miz compared to Flair his base credibility is significantly lower.
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Eddv posted...

Id say Joe cuts promos in the STYLE of Jake but much like Miz compared to Flair his base credibility is significantly lower.

I mean, I'm not saying he's as good as Jake.

Jake is one of that group that you could say is top 5 and I wouldn't bat an eye. And depending on the day he may be in mine.

But I am sayijg like with Jake, I can feel something when Joe talks.

To touch on the "suspension of disbelief" thing with Miz, I think the whole thing with him is that he DOES believe his own hype up until a certain point.

Like, Miz fully believes he's great, and unlike most cowardly heels, will often actually wrestle mostly on the up and up to try and prove it. He wanted to prove he was better than Rollins, etc. etc. But when that doesn't work, or when it's obvious from the start that he's not gonna pull it off (like against a Braun), then he starts to act cowardly and seems to have that "...Oh shit I'm not that great after all" moment, which is something I think he delivers really well with nuance, and you can just see the bravado chip away.
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Okay, does anyone else watch Dragon Gate?

Im three shows in to following them, having never seen them before (outside of DGUSA when it existed).

Im 100% sold.

At DEAD OR ALIVE, the Triangle Gate Title Match was amazing, and the 7-way cage match with the insane rules was maybe the craziest thing Ive ever seen in wrestling.

How can you hate a match where every faction in the company gets a designated 5-minute interval to interfere, and they do shit like hit baseballs and launch soccer balls at the cage, pie face people, and strip down to speedos for no real reason
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Jakyl25 posted...

Okay, does anyone else watch Dragon Gate?

Im three shows in to following them, having never seen them before (outside of DGUSA when it existed).

Im 100% sold.

At DEAD OR ALIVE, the Triangle Gate Title Match was amazing, and the 7-way cage match with the insane rules was maybe the craziest thing Ive ever seen in wrestling.

How can you hate a match where every faction in the company gets a designated 5-minute interval to interfere, and they do shit like hit baseballs and launch soccer balls at the cage, pie face people, and strip down to speedos for no real reason

Hi
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Some quality GIFs

https://twitter.com/narukiroy/status/993321937089847298?s=21

https://twitter.com/narukiroy/status/993325504777289728?s=21

https://twitter.com/narukiroy/status/993326434310598656?s=21

https://twitter.com/narukiroy/status/993328011469639680?s=21

https://twitter.com/narukiroy/status/993328525519224832?s=21

https://twitter.com/narukiroy/status/993331558504452098?s=21

And finally a good old fashioned face turn reveal via t-shirt change
https://twitter.com/narukiroy/status/993334545041764353?s=21
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voltch posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Okay, does anyone else watch Dragon Gate?

Im three shows in to following them, having never seen them before (outside of DGUSA when it existed).

Im 100% sold.

At DEAD OR ALIVE, the Triangle Gate Title Match was amazing, and the 7-way cage match with the insane rules was maybe the craziest thing Ive ever seen in wrestling.

How can you hate a match where every faction in the company gets a designated 5-minute interval to interfere, and they do shit like hit baseballs and launch soccer balls at the cage, pie face people, and strip down to speedos for no real reason

Hi

1.) Are they usually this good or did I catch them at a good time?

2.) Who will win King of Gate?
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Is Dragon Gate a comedic Fed? I thought DDT was the comedy Japan fed.
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1.) You caught them on their big yearly gimmick PPV.

The best one is probably the one where BxB Hulk kickstarted a big face run, sometimes that match sucks, like the time they started dismantling the ring, it made everything slow as fuck.

Dragon Gate's been not that good of late because they're in a transition phase with talent getting old, long time stables breaking up and WWE taking away some of the hot talent that could have helped during this transition period.

2.) No one cares about King of Gate, the next event that matters is Kobe Festival.

You are also now learning that their champion Mochizuki is 48 years old. He's a good champ, but if you're interested in seeing how good this can be, watch his match against Shingo from a couple of years back.
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Maniac64 posted...

Is Dragon Gate a comedic Fed? I thought DDT was the comedy Japan fed.

Think of it like PWG. Theres plenty of allowance for comedy but also they know how and when to get serious
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At its core DG is very very stable oriented and plays up lore and history a lot.

This is why these Dead or Alive Survival Escape matches often use not just current feuds and plots, but use throwbacks from years ago.
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voltch posted...

2.) No one cares about King of Gate, the next event that matters is Kobe Festival.

Any reason why? Because it runs against BoSJ maybe? Seems like an odd thing to not care about.
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Satin with the scoop on why Big Cass is in the doghouse

Were told Cass was directed to be done with the attack after hitting the impersonator with a big boot, but the wrestler asked if he could take it further with a beatdown. Backstage officials said no, but BC felt strongly about doing so and took the issue up with Vince McMahon who also shot him down.

When the segment happened in the ring though, Big Cass went against what he was told after hitting the big boot and mounted the little person to throw a barrage of punches.

Sources tell us backstage officials were very unhappy and it landed the recently returned wrestler in hot water. A few days later he lost to Daniel Bryan at Backlash, then wasnt used on TV during SmackDown Live this week. No word on whether that was already the plan before he went off-script.

Dont non-consensually punch people
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Jakyl25 posted...

Satin with the scoop on why Big Cass is in the doghouse

Were told Cass was directed to be done with the attack after hitting the impersonator with a big boot, but the wrestler asked if he could take it further with a beatdown. Backstage officials said no, but BC felt strongly about doing so and took the issue up with Vince McMahon who also shot him down.

When the segment happened in the ring though, Big Cass went against what he was told after hitting the big boot and mounted the little person to throw a barrage of punches.

Sources tell us backstage officials were very unhappy and it landed the recently returned wrestler in hot water. A few days later he lost to Daniel Bryan at Backlash, then wasnt used on TV during SmackDown Live this week. No word on whether that was already the plan before he went off-script.

Dont non-consensually punch people

Can't wait for Big Cass to get the Title now....

Being in the dog house=Title or new contract.... everytime.

IE: He'll be wrong.

What in the world did he think would happen? Did he think that Vince would've seen him punching a little person and then say "God damn! That kid has some tenacity! Maybe he was fucking right after all!"

And then he shows literally nothing in his match with Daniel Bryan. Stunning.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

What in the world did he think would happen? Did he think that Vince would've seen him punching a little person and then say "God damn! That kid has some tenacity! Maybe he was f***ing right after all!"

To be fair, stuff like this HAS happened before. It totally depends on what side of his mind Vince woke up on that day

But most of those examples are from ages ago before the micromanagement (pun not originally intended but LOL) started happening
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King of Gate is a bit like DDT's big tournament, it's used as a setup for a biggish singles match on a PPV, but not THE PPV like the Rumble/G1.

Also as stables matter more in Dragon Gate, something like Doi Darts has far greater storyline consequence than a singles match built up through a tournament.

The G1 Finals have always been about building the finals as this big epic 5 star match, but the King of Gate hasn't produced from what I've seen a spectacular final match of that level.
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Guess he's a big ass instead.
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One would hope he at least told "Daniel Bryan" he was going to do the extra stuff. It's bad enough Vince and everyone else said it was a bad idea.
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And I kinda see Casss argument in that it really drives home how insecure his character is about being overshadowed by Bryan

But still if Vince directly tells you no, that SHOULD be final
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Strife2 posted...

One would hope he at least told "Daniel Bryan" he was going to do the extra stuff. It's bad enough Vince and everyone else said it was a bad idea.

I would hope so too! They clearly were not shoot punches but still <_<
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I thought Jericho said Vince likes guys who stand up to him, shows him they got balls.
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Vince is every shade of insane, you can't predict anything he will say or do. Even if you think he's fucking with you to motivate you, 9 times out of 10, it could be the ONE time he is legit telling you no.
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voltch posted...

I thought Jericho said Vince likes guys who stand up to him, shows him they got balls.

Thats kind of what I was referring to earlier

But I think theres a line between challenging Vince and defying Vince
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voltch posted...

I thought Jericho said Vince likes guys who stand up to him, shows him they got balls.

Well.... he did...

But then Vince said no.

AFTER Cass had disagreed.

Orton and Christian told Vince very sternly we NEED to finish this program. Stood up to him and wouldn't take no for an answer. Had Vince howver after all that still said no, and Orton did the DQ finish title change at MitB anyway.... Vince would have been pissed, no matter how much he wants people to stand up to him.

Plot Twist: Vince thought it was really Bryan and was just concerned about brain trauma
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MWC, not every punishment lands someone a title. Baron Corbin is a perfect example from last year.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

MWC, not every punishment lands someone a title. Baron Corbin is a perfect example from last year.

In Corbin's defense, he did win the US title.

Sure, Corbin did absolutely nothing with it for 2 months and it didn't help us forget that he jobbed to Jinder Mahal in 4 seconds, but still, he won a title.
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Someone did some research on CM Punk and Brock Lesnar's reigns, since Brock is set to break Punk's record in a little bit.

Punk defended the WWE title 141 times during his 434 day run, on PPVs, TV and house shows.

Brock has defended the Universal title 10 times during his 400+ day run, with four house show defenses and six PPV defenses.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Someone did some research on CM Punk and Brock Lesnar's reigns, since Brock is set to break Punk's record in a little bit.

Punk defended the WWE title 141 times during his 434 day run, on PPVs, TV and house shows.

Brock has defended the Universal title 10 times during his 400+ day run, with four house show defenses and six PPV defenses.

Well, it was obvious that Punk's reign was way better anyways, but this is pretty damning evidence if anyone ever tried to argue otherwise.
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Fun Fact:

PPV main events for Punk during that reign: 5
PPV main events for Lesnar during this reign: 4
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Jakyl25 posted...

Fun Fact:

PPV main events for Punk during that reign: 5
PPV main events for Lesnar during this reign: 4

Hey man, you can't expect CM Punk to main event with the title over John Cena vs. John Laurinitis.
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At least that was a fight for control of RAW.

Wasn't the next PPV a stakeless cage match between Big Show and Cena?
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Fun Fact:

PPV main events for Punk during that reign: 5
PPV main events for Lesnar during this reign: 4

Hey man, you can't expect CM Punk to main event with the title over John Cena vs. John Laurinitis.

I fucking loved that match.

"Five Time...Five Time"
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