Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 444: The Figure 444 Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

Solioxrz362 posted...

RaidenZeroX posted...

The Miz even got a good match out of Hardy. When did he start being able to carry people like that.

I just wanted to revisit this

Yes, Miz is pretty great in the ring now. He knows how to get a match over just as well as anyone else, and he has some moves to keep up too. But he definitely is not carrying Jeff Hardy. Jeff Hardy has had some bad moments in the past, but the guy is gonna be a Hall of Famer at some point for good reason. His offense is fun to watch, he hasn't slowed down a whole lot with his age, and he gets crowds behind him easily. Not to mention, the Swanton Bomb always ends the match (until Miz decided he was just gonna eat it and reverse with a pin).

I would have agreed with this like 10 years ago, but Jeff hasn't been putting on great matches since his return. I was a huge fan of his in my younger days, still like the guy now, but I think he's definitely lost a step over time, which is expected. I also don't think he was putting on amazing matches with everybody even when he was in his prime.
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Miz is just generally a good match for guys like Jeff or Dolph who are good at doing exciting things that get the crowd to pop, but can fall into spot fest mode at times where they just do stuff for the hell of it. Miz is really good at pacing and working the crowd so they're hyped for the face comeback, but kind of bad at doing things that are actually exciting. So you give him an opponent that can bring the hype and let him build up to it and you get great things.
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Jeff Hardy is like high flying John Cena.

His matches are sloppy and need a ring general to truly transcend the mundane but really earnest and I find him just incredibly easy to get behind.

Honestly as more and more Ring Generals emerge the skillset Jeff and Cena possess becomes that much morr valuable due to its rarity.
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Shit, Cena may be a little sloppy in the ring but count how many fantastic matches he's had. And with how many different people too. I consider his sloppy-looking offense to be more of a style than a hindrance, although it does result in an extra botch here and there.

And I'd also argue that every match singles match Jeff has had since coming back has been entertaining, which is all I need for TV and usually it's good enough for midcard PPV matches. Maybe discount his match with Orton, but I liked that well enough.

The guy is just entertaining. IMO not every wrestler needs to be a fantastic technical wrestler. He's got his spot on the roster and for his part he executes it very well each time.

EDIT: Note that Jeff Hardy was my favorite wrestler when I was young (I was like 10 or 11 when he was feuding with Umaga and I ate that shit up). Perhaps I just think he's entertaining because I still love to see my favorite kicking ass.
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He's in better shape than Matt anyway. Matt looks like he walks on stilts half the time. If you'd told me Jeff would ever wrestle better than Matt, I would laugh, given the bumps Jeff took.
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Hey this is a thing!

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/05/08/saudi-man-arrested-criticizing-pro-wrestling/
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In response, WWE executive Triple H touted the companys advancements in the Womens Evolution, a fictional company initiative where WWE congratulates itself for treating women wrestlers as mostly equal to the men, correcting years of injustice and equality created by WWE itself for the decades it treated women wrestlers as sex objects and bimbos and said he hoped women would be allowed to wrestle in Saudi Arabia in a few years.

This is a great paragraph
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The people who run Saudi Arabia are a blight on the world. Jesus christ. Those poor people.
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Didnt you hear WWE, ExTha? Theyre a very progressive country making great strides towards equality!
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Just to put things in perspective, everyone who posts in this topic would be jailed if we were in Saudi Arabia for the crime of criticising wrestling.
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So Icehawk works for the Saudi Arabia government and is trying to warn us?
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Boo Roman Reigns at your peril
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Just to put things in perspective, everyone who posts in this topic would be jailed if we were in Saudi Arabia for the crime of criticising wrestling.

I think its more that he criticized the IDEA of wrestling
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Although yeah, Vince is probably like God damn pal, lets move the whole company over there! I like it!
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Love listening to Alvarez get LEGIT pissed at WWE on Observer Live and not just playing up his gimmick. You can tell the difference for sure.

You people want to sit here and blame the writers, blame the agents for this awful product, but NONE of this gets on the air without the approval of one man, and you fuckers bow down and worship him every time he comes on screen.
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Sempervive is trying to say vote with your wallet and your viewing habits like when WCW died. So many people stopped watching wrestling then and never came back, why cant that happen again?

Bryan had a good response.
You know why? Because even at the very lowest, WCW still got better ratings than Raw this week. Those people didnt leave until Nitro was literally canceled. Thats not happening to Raw.
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I don't see why this is the time for Bryan to get madder than any other point in the past 10 years.

If we go by pure quantity, there's more quality than ever.

WWE just had two 5 star matches and we're not even in the summer. He's overreacting and I'm not even that keen on the WWE product.
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I think judging the overall quality of WWE based on a few matches that happened to be good despite WWE isn't really that logical
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The point is they produce so much content that you can filter out the bad stuff and still be left with more good content than anyone else.

No one is expected to watch everything.
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voltch posted...

I don't see why this is the time for Bryan to get madder than any other point in the past 10 years.

If we go by pure quantity, there's more quality than ever.

WWE just had two 5 star matches and we're not even in the summer. He's overreacting and I'm not even that keen on the WWE product.

He admitted a large part of it was because the PPV crashed their site
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Agreed - no one here has any problem just following the major events that NJPW puts on and praising their quality.

I am sure if you had to sit through every minor card and 3 hours of NJPW RAW you would get sick of it too
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voltch posted...

The point is they produce so much content that you can filter out the bad stuff and still be left with more good content than anyone else.

No one is expected to watch everything.

But the other way of looking at that is that you have to filter out more bad stuff to see good content than anyone else
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Watch Takeovers only, boom you're already ahead of RoH.
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HashtagSEP posted...

voltch posted...

The point is they produce so much content that you can filter out the bad stuff and still be left with more good content than anyone else.

No one is expected to watch everything.

But the other way of looking at that is that you have to filter out more bad stuff to see good content than anyone else

Eh look at it this way

Sure Backlash sucked, but Mania was good as long as you dont think too hard about the booking implications and Greatest Royal Rumble was enjoyable enough and going back in time Rumble was pretty good and so too do I expect Money in the Bank to be good.

WWE has little problem putting on a solid in ring product - its just the booking that makes you wanna uninvest and just enjoy the matches as they come.
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Also keep in mind those two 5* matches were NXT matches. If you're talking Raw and Smackdown, the shows that get on TV and feature on the PPVs, then yeah the product isn't doing its best.

The two highlights are the IC Championship on Raw and the WWE Championship on Smackdown (and sadly, this maybe isn't producing like it should for the time being. It's pretty good, but not amazing). The main event scene on Raw is pretty bad for the time being and hasn't been that good since Royal Rumble when they had the most predictable finish in that 3-way match. The tag champions on Raw are cool, but I'm not really sure if they have much direction there. The tag champions on Smackdown are dominant big guys, but honestly there's a lot of talent in that division that isn't getting the spotlight they deserve. And that division is also slightly lacking in direction for the time being. You know, like, what's the story here? Even worse in this regard is the United States championship, which has the least direction of any of the belts in the whole company right now. I think we just went through a big program of "I don't give a fuck who has it right now" through the Orton/Roode/Jinder stuff, and now we have an exciting champion, but the least exciting story.

For the women's division, we have what should've been an interesting story with Sasha and Bayley, and they just keep not pulling the trigger. Female stars are getting their momentum killed for no good reason (Bayley and Becky especially), and excitement is pretty low. I have enjoyed the Nia and Alexa matches, but most people haven't. I'll give a decent point to Carmella and Charlotte's feud right now because it keeps Charlotte on the chase and gives fans a reason to stay behind her, and the IIconics are doing a good job, but it's like what do we do with Asuka right now? Are we gonna let her star power just run itself out?

So, right now you're looking at a 5/10 product overall at best when really, with all the insane talent WWE has, we should be getting an 8/10 at least.
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I think its time to admit that if wwe's talent was all people keep cracking it up to be then they would like the product more.

Like theres a lot of great ring technicians and a decent number of good talkers but there isnt a whole lot tying it together and very few with the sort of in ring charisma necessary to really become real stars - theres a few people who are there and they're predictably the most popular people like Braun Bryan and AJ.
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I mean I don't think that's true at all when you have things like 205 constantly putting out good content with nearly its entire roster with little oversight, and then comparing it to stuff like the last AJ/Nakamura match only being ruined by the booking
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I think WWE has

1. A lot of guys who basically phone it in because they've accepted what they do doesn't matter all that much. They think just having some in match gimmicks is enough and they just fall back on those as a crutch but never really have great characters or matches. Guys like Dean Ambrose and Roman Reigns.
2. A lot of guys who don't fully get what a good wrestler needs to be really good. Bust their asses with "good matches" but just don't have the complete package down from the character end. Guys like Seth Rollins, Finn Balor, and Dolph Ziggler.
3. Some legitimately great wrestlers. Guys like The Miz.

Thing is I think WWE themselves are a lot more at fault for 1 and 2 being more common than they should be.
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Lopen posted...

I think WWE has

1. A lot of guys who basically phone it in because they've accepted what they do doesn't matter all that much. They think just having some in match gimmicks is enough and they just fall back on those as a crutch but never really have great characters or matches. Guys like Dean Ambrose and Roman Reigns.
2. A lot of guys who don't fully get what a good wrestler needs to be really good. Bust their asses with "good matches" but just don't have the complete package down from the character end. Guys like Seth Rollins, Finn Balor, and Dolph Ziggler.
3. Some legitimately great wrestlers. Guys like The Miz.

Thing is I think WWE themselves are a lot more at fault for 1 and 2 being more common than they should be.

No.

The most complete package in the company.

I still think Am Drag and AJ are the two top of the company, but it's because they are more over. But from an average perspective of every attribute combined, Seth is THE GUY

Tell me something about Seth Rollins's character that shows in his moveset or in ring mannerisms

He's basically a high flying create a wrestler.

J&J Security were actually great because they gave him an in-ring character focus that he sorely sorely needed. As a solo act it's pretty glaring though.
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Lopen posted...

Tell me something about Seth Rollins's character that shows in his moveset or in ring mannerisms

He's basically a high flying create a wrestler.

J&J Security were actually great because they gave him an in-ring character focus that he sorely sorely needed. As a solo act it's pretty glaring though.

How do you show ReConstruction in your moveset?

You tell me what he could even conceivably use to paint that character and I'll try to tell you what he's doing with it.

Signature taunts of some sort, if nothing else, could help a lot.

If you were to ask me what Seth Rollins's character is after watching a match of his, I'd guess his schtick is a guy who has chronic knee injuries, yet for some reason does flippidoos all over the place anyway. Not a great character-- also not actually Seth's character. (Still not really sure what his character actually is since he's turned face)

If you can't show your character in the ring in wrestling, it means your character sucks for wrestling and you need a better one. Or you're bad at showing your character. With Rollins it's probably a bit of both to be honest.
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Charlotte boobs busted apparently.

She's out indefinitely.....

(Indefinitely seems weird, doesn't this seem like something that should be pretty quick....)

UInstinctGogeta posted...

Charlotte boobs busted apparently.

She's out indefinitely.....

(Indefinitely seems weird, doesn't this seem like something that should be pretty quick....)

Surgery to remove/repair
Draining
Healing
Surgery to replace
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StealThisSheen posted...

UInstinctGogeta posted...

Charlotte boobs busted apparently.

She's out indefinitely.....

(Indefinitely seems weird, doesn't this seem like something that should be pretty quick....)

Surgery to remove/repair
Draining
Healing
Surgery to replace

Oh... thought step 1 and 4 would be the same.

Didn't know about step 2.

So any idea how long?

UInstinctGogeta posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

UInstinctGogeta posted...

Charlotte boobs busted apparently.

She's out indefinitely.....

(Indefinitely seems weird, doesn't this seem like something that should be pretty quick....)

Surgery to remove/repair
Draining
Healing
Surgery to replace

Oh... thought step 1 and 4 would be the same.

Didn't know about step 2.

So any idea how long?

Depends how bad the "busting" was

Step 2 technically isn't always necessary but usually with "busting" there's some kind of internal damage as well so you have to check for/treat infection
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StealThisSheen posted...

UInstinctGogeta posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

UInstinctGogeta posted...

Charlotte boobs busted apparently.

She's out indefinitely.....

(Indefinitely seems weird, doesn't this seem like something that should be pretty quick....)

Surgery to remove/repair
Draining
Healing
Surgery to replace

Oh... thought step 1 and 4 would be the same.

Didn't know about step 2.

So any idea how long?

Depends how bad the "busting" was

Step 2 technically isn't always necessary but usually with "busting" there's some kind of internal damage as well so you have to check for/treat infection

Thx

UInstinctGogeta posted...

Lopen posted...

Tell me something about Seth Rollins's character that shows in his moveset or in ring mannerisms

He's basically a high flying create a wrestler.

J&J Security were actually great because they gave him an in-ring character focus that he sorely sorely needed. As a solo act it's pretty glaring though.

How do you show ReConstruction in your moveset?

You tell me what he could even conceivably use to paint that character and I'll try to tell you what he's doing with it.

not every character is a great wrestling character.
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Eddv posted...

UInstinctGogeta posted...

Lopen posted...

Tell me something about Seth Rollins's character that shows in his moveset or in ring mannerisms

He's basically a high flying create a wrestler.

J&J Security were actually great because they gave him an in-ring character focus that he sorely sorely needed. As a solo act it's pretty glaring though.

How do you show ReConstruction in your moveset?

You tell me what he could even conceivably use to paint that character and I'll try to tell you what he's doing with it.

not every character is a great wrestling character.

He's at worst the 4th most over person on the roster. (And one of those 3 is a chant people like to yell)... he is the most over person on Raw. I think at that time it becomes a great character irregardless if people are behind it.

I still don't know what ReConstruction even is or if it's even an actual character.

Seriously though just get some taunts. It's not hard. Roman Reigns shows a lot more character than Rollins and he has 2 moves
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Imagine how much better Rollins would be if he had an actual character or an in-ring THING that defines him.

He's just "generic wrestleman who is talented"
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UInstinctGogeta posted...

boobs

in before preston
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Eddv posted...

Imagine how much better Rollins would be if he had an actual character or an in-ring THING that defines him.

He's just "generic wrestleman who is talented"

He's outpopping the roster and got such a reaction last week he literally had to stop in the middle of his promo to be like "what the fuck is happening right now".

What should he change? Honestly Would you change if you were currently the hottest thing in wrestling?

UInstinctGogeta posted...

Honestly Would you change if you were currently the hottest thing in wrestling?

I do think Bryan should be careful not to re-injure himself
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Tom Bombadil posted...

UInstinctGogeta posted...

Honestly Would you change if you were currently the hottest thing in wrestling?

I do think Bryan should be careful not to re-injure himself

I don't really consider Am Drag "the hottest" the way that term is usually used....

Because he's perpetually mega attitude era levels of over.

He's no hotter or colder than usual, he just is.

Rollins at least started doing the belt swing again
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The more I think about it, the more I can't help but think Miz's moveset is almost too perfect for his character

He's got stuff that he obviously stole and thinks he does better, like the figure four and the "It" kicks (though those clearly aren't stolen)

He's got stuff that is more flashy than effective, even from casual observation, such as the corner clothesline

Hell, stuff like the Skull Crushing Finale and the snapmare driver arguably target the opponent's face, which fits right in with him being the face of the WWE
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Well, to be clear, the hottest thing in wrestling is Kenny Omega.

Rollins is on an upswing, but there were reasons for the downswing and they haven't been addressed.
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Eddv posted...

Well, to be clear, the hottest thing in wrestling is Kenny Omega.

Rollins is on an upswing, but there were reasons for the downswing and they haven't been addressed.

This would be true if Gedo wasn't an idiot....

But he is. And he's about to fucking kill Omega just like he did Naito despite the fact there is ZERO reasoning for doing so....

It's easy to say Naito got killed if you haven't been following along this year but

Dude is JUST as over as ever. They love him. His pops are usually the best, and they ALWAYS chant NA-I-TO! with his entrance theme.

Naito, unlike Bullet Club, is fine.
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