Board 8 > So, I finally came to terms with the fact I am not a Christian.

(+) Yeah! (+)

That topic title is probably one of the hardest things I ever typed. Ive always taken my religion seriously and with deep though. It would be what keeps me up at night every night. I found though as I got older that my *unique* beliefs cant just mesh with Christianity anymore.

I cant believe that the planet is 2000 years old
I cant hate on homosexuality
I cant believe that women can from the rib of a man and etc etc.
I dont think a lack of belief can damn someone to an eternal hell

I admire and love the teachings of Christ and I believe they hold tremendous value but I dont buy into a creator which has a specific focus on humans.

I can believe in something that made all of this via the Big Bang, like an ultimate higher being beyond perception through space and time.

I do not believe there is this romantic creation that put forth this book with a very specific and timely set of rules and guidelines to follow that make humans out to be this ultimate creation.

If something made all of this, we dont matter any more to it than the rocks on Saturns moons imo.

So yeah, after 26 years of considering myself a Christian and fearing the flames of eternal damnation If I said otherwise ( sounds dramatic but this was a legitimate fear) I have to say I am a Theist.

Ahh fuck.
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INCEPTlON posted...

If something made all of this, we dont matter any more to it than the rocks on Saturns moons imo.

Fuck you any of Titan's rocks are orders of magnitude better than mankind collective.
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Apostates get a greater punishment.
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INCEPTlON posted...

I cant believe that the planet is 2000 years old
I cant hate on homosexuality
I cant believe that women can from the rib of a man and etc etc.
I dont think a lack of belief can damn someone to an eternal hell

Im a Christian and I agree with all these points

Maybe a little religious education wouldn't hurt
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SantaRPidgey posted...

INCEPTlON posted...

I cant believe that the planet is 2000 years old
I cant hate on homosexuality
I cant believe that women can from the rib of a man and etc etc.
I dont think a lack of belief can damn someone to an eternal hell

Im a Christian and I agree with all these points

Maybe a little religious education wouldn't hurt

He also wrote more than that
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Oh dude you can still be a Christian, sounds like you're just in with the wrong ones if they're the creationist types

INCEPTlON posted...

I dont think a lack of belief can damn someone to an eternal hell

for what it's worth, the current pope has pretty much said that's not true

I mean I haven't been Christian in like 10 years now, so I'm not the best resource

but I do think it's possible to be Christian without necessarily believing in all literal interpretations of the Bible
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And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
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Atheism is the best, welcome to the winning side.
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The way I go about things is that, fuck religion it's all about YOUR relationship with God. I really really dislike the religious system and the whole organization of it all, but your relationship with God and whatnot can still remain true.

This is coming from someone who went to those Catholic after school classes and been through communion and confirmation, but settled on being agnostic. So I don't much HAVE a relationship with God but can appreciate people who do without all the bullshit of religion, particularly Catholic.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Atheism is the best, welcome to the winning side.

Atheism and theism are pretty significantly different
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D'oh, I thought that was a typo
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But wouldnt I at the least need to believe in the idea that God cared ( or experienced the sensation of caring) about humans enough to give us a son ( saying son feels wrong to me; avatar i could deal with) to die and save us from a damnation?

That part I feel like I conflict with because I dont believe that whatever is responsible for everything, even experiences the sensation of emotions or thought in such a simple way. If it does experience caring, I definitely cant believe it cares about humans more than other things.
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Ahhhhhhhhh ok Night in the Woods got to you eh
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Jesus had some good teachings, but he had some bad ones too.

Honestly, I just don't see how people can put faith in a book (be it the Quran, the Bible, the Torah, or whatever) without even knowing who originally wrote it.
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It's cool man, I realized recently I'm not Mark Henry. We can't always be our favorite wrestlers.
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INCEPTlON posted...

But wouldnt I at the least need to believe in the idea that God cared ( or experienced the sensation of caring) about humans enough to give us a son ( saying son feels wrong to me; avatar i could deal with) to die and save us from a damnation?

That part I feel like I conflict with because I dont believe that whatever is responsible for everything, even experiences the sensation of emotions or thought in such a simple. If it does experience caring, I definitely cant believe it cares about humans more than other things.

FWIW, the Bible does state that God allows humanity to kill animals to provide sustenance, which imo creates a heirarchy of which humans are at the top. Of course this hinges on whether or not you take the Bible as truthful, but there is that at least.
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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

Ahhhhhhhhh ok Night in the Woods got to you eh

Listen Bane, why cant we go do Crimes?
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INCEPTlON posted...

But wouldnt I at the least need to believe in the idea that God cared ( or experienced the sensation of caring) about humans enough to give us a son ( saying son feels wrong to me; avatar i could deal with) to die and save us from a damnation?

That part I feel like I conflict with because I dont believe that whatever is responsible for everything, even experiences the sensation of emotions or thought in such a simple. If it does experience caring, I definitely cant believe it cares about humans more than other things.

if god is infinite and omnipotent and omnipresent he is aware of everything going on simultaneously and would have the capacity to care about and pay attention to everything always and creating a son or avatar or whatever would take zero actual thought or effort because infinite beings is a dumb concept

but anyway every intelligent species could have a messiah from the same universal diety that can teach the lessons each specific race must learn which removes the human focus from the god but still preserves the important bits

basically when you believe in an all-powerful being you can justify literally anything you want
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Yeah dude it's 2018, you can not believe in a single thing about Christianity but still be Christian for psychological convenience
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Johnbobb posted...

ExThaNemesis posted...

Atheism is the best, welcome to the winning side.

Atheism and theism are pretty significantly different

Yeah, definitely dont consider myself an atheist. I think something is responsible for everything. I just dont think we know what.
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Sorry for dropping this here guys. Kind of lame talk or the late night, but I had to get it off my chest.
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No worries, it's interesting and I'm glad you shared. It's important
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It's more that most organized Christianity is bad and horrible and has little all to do with what Jesus was even saying. Keep to your own personal viewpoint (whatever that is), you'll be fine
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creationists believe in a 6000 year existence. you might have confused that with when christ was born, which was around 2000 years ago

also, I view "dominion" as stated in genesis to mean caretakers, not overlords, as too many people seem to interpret it as

NFUN posted...

SantaRPidgey posted...

INCEPTlON posted...

I cant believe that the planet is 2000 years old
I cant hate on homosexuality
I cant believe that women can from the rib of a man and etc etc.
I dont think a lack of belief can damn someone to an eternal hell

Im a Christian and I agree with all these points

Maybe a little religious education wouldn't hurt

He also wrote more than that

Also there is no God
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neonreaper posted...

NFUN posted...

SantaRPidgey posted...

INCEPTlON posted...

I cant believe that the planet is 2000 years old
I cant hate on homosexuality
I cant believe that women can from the rib of a man and etc etc.
I dont think a lack of belief can damn someone to an eternal hell

Im a Christian and I agree with all these points

Maybe a little religious education wouldn't hurt

He also wrote more than that

Also there is no God

also true*
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Sorry to hear that you have strayed off the right path. Christianity is not about whether you believe everything in the Bible literally. It was never meant to be taken completely literally, but those waging war on Christianity will pretend so - and you have fallen for their attacks.

INCEPTlON posted...

If something made all of this, we dont matter any more to it than the rocks on Saturns moons imo.

Nihilism will destroy you.

You must realise how important it is to embrace morality, to know right from wrong, and to live your life accordingly in service to yourself, your family, your friends and your people - there's nothing more important in life.

Remember, you always have a choice.
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Vlado posted...

Sorry to hear that you have strayed off the right path. Christianity is not about whether you believe everything in the Bible literally. It was never meant to be taken completely literally, but those waging war on Christianity will pretend so - and you have fallen for their attacks.

INCEPTlON posted...

If something made all of this, we dont matter any more to it than the rocks on Saturns moons imo.

Nihilism will destroy you.

You must realise how important it is to embrace morality, to know right from wrong, and to live your life accordingly in service to yourself, your family, your friends and your people - there's nothing more important in life.

Remember, you always have a choice.

Oh dont worry about Nhilism. I want the best life possible for my family and friends. Im important in my world and those in my life.
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That's good. Keep it up.
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INCEPTlON posted...

That topic title is probably one of the hardest things I ever typed. Ive always taken my religion seriously and with deep though. It would be what keeps me up at night every night. I found though as I got older that my *unique* beliefs cant just mesh with Christianity anymore.

I cant believe that the planet is 2000 years old
I cant hate on homosexuality
I cant believe that women can from the rib of a man and etc etc.
I dont think a lack of belief can damn someone to an eternal hell

I admire and love the teachings of Christ and I believe they hold tremendous value but I dont buy into a creator which has a specific focus on humans.

I can believe in something that made all of this via the Big Bang, like an ultimate higher being beyond perception through space and time.

I do not believe there is this romantic creation that put forth this book with a very specific and timely set of rules and guidelines to follow that make humans out to be this ultimate creation.

If something made all of this, we dont matter any more to it than the rocks on Saturns moons imo.

So yeah, after 26 years of considering myself a Christian and fearing the flames of eternal damnation If I said otherwise ( sounds dramatic but this was a legitimate fear) I have to say I am a Theist.

Ahh fuck.

If you view what you said above as what Christianity is, you probably were never really a Christian anyways as you clearly have no real grasp on the actuality of the religion. (Said as a non Christian)
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Well I do understand your viewpoint at least partially. There might be a greater power, but it doesn't mean that Christianity is necessarily the explanation. The same can be said to Islam, Judaism, Mayan, Nordic, etc. religion. Being fully sure that any one (especially deist) religion has got it right is just...not for everyone.
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INCEPTlON posted...

I cant believe that the planet is 2000 years old
I cant hate on homosexuality

I don't think these are incompatible with Christianity! The other two, maybe, but there are folks who can reconcile those as well.

also I kinda feel like the whole thing kinda implodes once you discard inerrancy of Scripture but that seems to be a minority opinion in the faith these days
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Vlado posted...

Sorry to hear that you have strayed off the right path. Christianity is not about whether you believe everything in the Bible literally. It was never meant to be taken completely literally, but those waging war on Christianity will pretend so - and you have fallen for their attacks.

No, that's what a damn good portion of Americans believe.

Like, the term "Jesus Freak" exists for a reason. A literal interpretation of the Bible may be the majority interpretation over here.
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As I said, war on Christianity. Of course such a term exists, and it exists for a reason: Those who wage war on Christianity introduced it.

But let's not needlessly derail Stripey's topic. If you wish to discuss this further, you know where to find me. :)
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This isn't derailing at all xD

stripey, what, came from Florida and moved to Pennsylvania? (correct me if I'm wrong there)

Very likely that he's been around literal interpreters of the Bible for a lot of his life. He's just going through something similar to what most people have in the past 2-3 decades when they leave their home and community where the Bible is literal history.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

This isn't derailing at all xD

stripey, what, came from Florida and moved to Pennsylvania? (correct me if I'm wrong there)

Very likely that he's been around literal interpreters of the Bible for a lot of his life. He's just going through something similar to what most people have in the past 2-3 decades when they leave their home and community where the Bible is literal history.

Colorado. You are right about my town in Florida though. If you didnt take the Bible literally, you were an outcast.
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Religion makes me really uncomfortable. To think that very very large groups just "take their word for it" with absolutely no shred of any kind of evidence is absolutely terrifying.

Oh hey it's kind of like #metoo
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Ok so, people who say that these views aren't incompatible with Christianity, could you explain that? I guess my question is, what specifically do Christians believe in--in the religious sense--if not what has already been outlined in this thread?

Edit: More specifically, the second half of the first post seems in direct contradiction with the notion that God specifically sent his son to Earth for the purpose of saving humans from their sins, which from my perspective is pretty much the fundamental tenet of Christianity.
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I love how people come in here being like 'personal relationship', form your own thing, organized religion sucks just talk to jesus and stuff. So silly. Christianity is literally based on a book that says if you don't believe every single word it's just as good as if you didn't believe any of it. It's just deluded to think otherwise and try to stay Christian even tho you literally oppose almost everything it stands for.

wg64Z posted...

Religion makes me really uncomfortable. To think that very very large groups just "take their word for it" with absolutely no shred of any kind of evidence is absolutely terrifying.

Oh hey it's kind of like #metoo

Call me when we have the metoo crusades. Insert eyeroll here.

It turns out most people pick and choose which religious beliefs to put more value on and sometimes which ones to discard.

Just like normal non-religious morality.
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Vlado posted...

That's good. Keep it up.

I can't really keep up with your viewpoints in a logical way sometimes.

He's throwing away his religion, which you claim is a trap because of all the morals it entails. But then he says, it's ok, I'm still moral, I just won't be a Christian.

So what does it matter if you embrace Christianity or not? If you really only care about it in a figurative sense, what's the difference with just being an atheist who does moral things all the time?
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Non-religious morality doesn't explicitly predict and say you'll be severely severely punished for picking and choosing like the Bible does. And if you decide to think that's crap, why trust any of it? I understand why some people cling so hard to their childhood religion, but

It's not about trust it's about making you feel good about yourself, like normal morality.

For a non-cynical answer, it's because it allows you to get on with your life like a normal human being (like norm- you get it)
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Thanks for the even tempered responses everyone. Its going to take me a while to come to feel comfortable with it.
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PerfectChaosZ posted...

I love how people come in here being like 'personal relationship', form your own thing, organized religion sucks just talk to jesus and stuff. So silly. Christianity is literally based on a book that says if you don't believe every single word it's just as good as if you didn't believe any of it. It's just deluded to think otherwise and try to stay Christian even tho you literally oppose almost everything it stands for.

To be fair, most people pick and choose what they believe about Christianity (or Islam or any of the other religions) anyway. Most of them don't even read the bible. (Reading the bible coincidentally is what turned me atheist)

I could see someone saying "The bible is corrupted, but Jesus was still the son of god" though it sounds like TC is more of a Deist.
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Ashethan posted...

PerfectChaosZ posted...

I love how people come in here being like 'personal relationship', form your own thing, organized religion sucks just talk to jesus and stuff. So silly. Christianity is literally based on a book that says if you don't believe every single word it's just as good as if you didn't believe any of it. It's just deluded to think otherwise and try to stay Christian even tho you literally oppose almost everything it stands for.

To be fair, most people pick and choose what they believe about Christianity (or Islam or any of the other religions) anyway. Most of them don't even read the bible. (Reading the bible coincidentally is what turned me atheist)

I could see someone saying "The bible is corrupted, but Jesus was still the son of god" though it sounds like TC is more of a Deist.

How can anyone justify only believing "some" of a religion? That entire notion just boggles my mind trying to justify it from any point of view.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Atheism is the best, welcome to the winning side.

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wg64Z posted...

How can anyone justify only believing "some" of a religion? That entire notion just boggles my mind trying to justify it from any point of view.

"The people writing the book added to it, in order to appeal/control the masses."

I mean I don't believe in any of it for explicitly that reason, but I can see why some people might.
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