Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic: It Likes The Smell Of Dead Things

(+) Yeah! (+)

I don't really see sorcerers apprentice as a problem. I think ice block removal is a big enough nerf to mage that you could see different archetypes evolve from cheating out apprentices since they can't just stall until exodia anymore.
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Iceblock I think will do a lot to push mage

Mannnn I wanna buy kobold packs. Blizzard pls revamp the dust economy
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spent some time trying to figure out what the hell Rin was saying before I decided to just look it up

Ered'achor! Havik! Galar!

wtf is this gibberish and what does it mean
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It's the Demonic language of Warcraft, Eredun.

It doesn't have a full public translation, but I'm sure someone at Blizzard knows and that phrase specifically is something about summoning or communicating with demons.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

I don't really see sorcerers apprentice as a problem. I think ice block removal is a big enough nerf to mage that you could see different archetypes evolve from cheating out apprentices since they can't just stall until exodia anymore.

2 Sorcerers Apprentices is not a problem. Replicating it until you have four is. Being able to play them and Antonidas, without any interaction, is the real problem. In that regard, it would be simpler to deal with Antonidas.
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davidponte posted...

Nothing like opening a Lorewalker Cho to reset your pity timer.

I don't even want to dust it in fear of opening another one next time. This might be the third time I've opened one now, I've learned my lesson.

With my brawl pack, which was the only Classic pack I've opened since the one above, I opened a Tinkmaster Overspark.

Yay, I guess?
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azuarc posted...

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I don't really see sorcerers apprentice as a problem. I think ice block removal is a big enough nerf to mage that you could see different archetypes evolve from cheating out apprentices since they can't just stall until exodia anymore.

2 Sorcerers Apprentices is not a problem. Replicating it until you have four is. Being able to play them and Antonidas, without any interaction, is the real problem. In that regard, it would be simpler to deal with Antonidas.

Was Exodia as an archetype really a problem pre-quest? Was quest mage a problem pre-simulacrum?

The archetype is about stalling until you have the combo. Removing ice block means removing two from the deck, as well as any that pop up as a result of Cabalist's Tome, glyph. Mage still has other stall tools, but nothing as oppressive as ice block. A 3 mana spell that makes your opponent's turn meaningless.
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Keep taking Mage cards away and you're eventually going to have to rotate others back in to make up for it.
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Currently at rank 6. Queue up against a Murloc Paladin and get Patches, Free From Amber, and Mind Control in opening hand. Concede after a turn 4 Megasaur on a half-full board of Murlocs.

Queue up again. Get the same opponent. Get Free From Amber and Mind Control in opening hand. Concede after a turn 4 Megasaur on a half-full board of Murlocs.

I just want to get to rank 5, man.
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You know it's not your day when you lose to a Shaman.

No rank 5 for me tonight.
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I opened up my brawl pack and got Malygos and a mountain giant. So now I only need one giant. Maly is nice too.

Also, I hear that some balance changes are on their way. Maybe as soon as next month. Seems like a bunch of pros/streamers have overheard that stuff is going to get hit. Although I've heard mixed reports on what it's going to be.
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Changes are being made to ladder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH5d7ROjsHc&feature=em-uploademail

Summary:

-Ladder experience different depending on where you end up on the ladder each month: top of ladder has a long grind, bottom has too short a grind before hitting rank 20.
-New changes: every season you get set back 4 ranks, every rank is now 5 stars
-More stars at the bottom, less setback --> better matchmaking
-Monthly cardbacks now need 5 ranked wins, as the ranks below 20 are now much further away from rank 20

Rank floor stays.
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Man that is gonna suck for anyone who takes a break. Like right now I'm not even ranked but I know I can usually get to rank 10 in a few days. Those added stars are just going to add to the grind whilst leaving the top of the ranks unchanged

Like sure you aren't going to get pushed back far each reset but getting up to above rank 10 wasn't that big a deal anyway

And checking Reddit seems only I feel that way, likely because I take frequent breaks and don't always play ranked every month

I think it's great. Instead of getting to rank 5 at the end of the month and not having time to attempt to hit legend, I can potentially get to rank 5 within the first week and then complain for the rest of the month about not hitting legend.

Should be fun.
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davidponte posted...

I think it's great. Instead of getting to rank 5 at the end of the month and not having time to attempt to hit legend, I can potentially get to rank 5 within the first week and then complain for the rest of the month about not hitting legend.

Should be fun.

and at the end of the month you'll only be pushed back to rank 9 instead of all the way back to rank 19

seems pretty good honestly
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Yeah joking aside, I like the change.
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as for me I barely ever play ranked but if the matchmaking at the bottom really does improve I'll just be happy to not be playing legend decks at rank 20
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I have a feeling this won't do anything to fix the rank 20 issue, but any change is a positive at this point. Let's mix shit up!
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The main problem with lower ranks is that the game has just been around for a long time. Even at upper legend I feel disadvantaged because my card pool is limited (cant run some counter decks).
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Rank 5 finally get. It was definitely a grind this time. Aggro Paladin and Dragon Priest to rank 10, then I spent about a week there (not playing very often) without gaining any ground, so I gave in and crafted Prince Keleseth for the other Dragon Priest build and instantly got to rank 6. After getting stuck there for a bit, I decided to try out some Zoo, and went 5-0 to get me over the hump.
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What's the record for most Hydrologists played in a single game? I think I had eleven today. Maybe ten? I'm pretty sure my opponent was killing it first on purpose just to trigger Kodo for me over and over.
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Damn I love Hydrologist Kodo. Everytime I trigger it on the murloc or out of my jungle I giggle to myself about infinite value
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Kingsbane Rogue is quickly cementing itself as my second least favourite deck to play against off all-time, just behind Quest Rogue, and it's not even that good.

Rogue sucks.
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I have a game against a quest mage. I'm a priest so it's very unfavored for me.

I like shuffled a ton of cards into his deck because I used scream THREE TIMES (from lyra) and like it looked like i was going to win. He time warps and he's at one. I have one card left (Shadow word death)

he top decks arcane artificer.

fuck quest mage.
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davidponte posted...

Rogue sucks.

Many archetypes of it do, yes. Somehow I end up playing every version of rogue except the really popular, obnoxious ones. (Well, okay, mill can be pretty obnoxious to play against, and I used to love that.)
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Wow they just nuked Corridor Creeper, Patches, and Raza.

https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/blog/21361570/

Bonemare is still ok, fair nerf.
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Those are all amazing.

ShatteredElysium posted...

Those are all amazing.

You say that until it sinks in that there were no major Warlock nerfs and Cubelock will dominate any and every deck on the ladder.

Welcome to Lockstone.
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I'm gonna turn my Corridor Creepers into Voidlords. Gonna be great.
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Good nerfs. I'm always in favour of less reasons for people to play aggro.

Better still, Evolve Shaman doesn't even especially care about the Creeper nerf, so I can still play that without any fuss.
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Bear in mind the rise of Warlock came about in response to the suffocating dominance of Priest (which is taking a hit here).

Although these are indirect buffs, they're not as severe as they first seem.
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RIP Patches
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And I just made a second creeper the other day! But yeah, those are massive nerfs besides bonemare
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turning creepers into voidlords
patches into guldan
raza into skull

going full warlock can't stop me
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https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/7tu5l9/upcoming_balance_changes_update_102/dtf7hv4/

No longer in charge.
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FFDragon posted...

turning creepers into voidlords
patches into guldan
raza into skull

going full warlock can't stop me

Doing exactly this.
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It only took them Patches entire time in Standard for a nerf.

Still, this is great stuff. This kills Raza Priest (thankfully), but only slightly effects certain builds of Spiteful Priest which generally do well against Cubelock.

Has there ever been changes to this many high impact cards in one single balance patch? Maybe the Force of Nature/Knife Juggle patch? I can't think of anything else.

EDIT: They gave Creeper the full Warsong Commander treatment too, it's actively unplayable at this point. Also interesting that this is essentially a nerf for Wild since Patches and Raza are about to rotate out anyway.
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wow they actually decided to not make wild a dumping ground

also all of those cards needed nerfs pretty badly, they all are extremely swingy cards that can decide the game if you draw them. Bonemare on curve is nuts
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Cubelock also loses to like, almost all other versions of Priest still I think

Wonder if Big Priest makes a comeback with no more creeper + patches hurting aggro decks
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Camden posted...

I really don't think anything from Cubelock needs to be nerfed, but Lackey would be my choice if I had to choose something. My nerf wish list doesn't contain any cards from my HoF wish list.

Raza
Patches

That's it. Don't want to hear about April.

I would get personal enjoyment out of a Patches nerf, but they'll never do it. That cancer will continue to infest wild for the entire duration of the game.

I am, quite literally, in shock at the Patches nerf. I remember one of the designers talking long ago about trying to get him into the game for multiple expansions before it finally happened so I was fully expecting the developer baby status of the card to make it immune from nerfs. Unless I've completely mixed it up with something else, entirely possible.

I still think a better Patches nerf would be to leave him with Charge if a weapon is equipped. Still allows it to be obnoxious in a few decks but you can't play it in everything. That said, oh well get fucked Patches, makes the day ever so slightly better since I was up all night and just got back from the vet.

Edit: The only negative to this is I don't have any Creepers or Raza so my dust refund isn't going to be as great as it could be.
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Kinda wish Creeper was knocked down to a 3/5 instead, because then you could still run it in control or midrange decks and it could contest the board pretty well with 3 attack. But man, 2 attack does nothing.

If there was an easy way to change Raza's interaction with Shadowreaper, so maybe it's 0 mana hero powers, but 1 mana for Shadowreapers, so you could still do silly Inspire things in Wild, I'd be all for that.

And maybe give Patches a Battlecry: Charrrrge or something. Drawing him is going to be even more disastrous now.

All that said, I'm definitely more glad they did something over nothing, and the Bonemare nerf is perfect.
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Still dont know what Im going to do with raza, patches, and my creepers. I already have a lot of the warlock cards and prince 3 and umbra would probably be up there .
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Someone mentioned keeping the reduction to 0 but only have it effect your current hero power, any future changes resetting it back to 2. That way you would have to hold Raza until after the death knight to get the full effect instead of playing it on curve.
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really happy with all of these nerfs, especially how there are some super important wild nerfs in there.

the state of wild HS would be forever made worse if cards like patches and raza had stayed there forever as is. also despite these adjustments coming super, super late... I'm almost hesitant to say "too late" in this specific case. with it coming at the end of the standard cycle it seems almost fitting. like, standard meta is supposed to be its own unique, distinct thing. so the standard cycle that just ended was the one where patches dictated a lot of the meta, and raza had a huge impact in the later half of the cycle. but now that this standard cycle is ending the experiment is kinda over and we need to fix these cards so they don't ruin wild forever.
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So...cubelock far and away the best deck and probably not losing anything unless Doomguard goes to HoF? Wew
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Some brief thoughts

-Keleseth decks are done, I believe. the key strength of the deck was a buffed patches. Tempo Rogue may still exist, but I think the archetype may start running Evis and maybe even Sap. Zoo is also going to go full demons.

- Think we are going to start seeing pure aggro with less bonemare and creeper leading to strong trading. Aggro Pally may still run Deckhands cause they are good burst, Hybrid Hunter is going to go full face again, Zoo will likely chuck the midrangey demons and go more aggressive, Aggro Druid is going to be around still I think.

-The death of Patches boosts decks that are weak to aggro and strong against control significantly. I'm thinking Miracle Rogue, Secret Mage, and Big Priest are going to be big winners in a Cubelock matchup

-Honestly may be more interested in regular control lock, with Rin and N'Zoth, than Cubes, but time will tell.
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

So...cubelock far and away the best deck and probably not losing anything unless Doomguard goes to HoF? Wew

Yes but Priest getting worse means decks that lose to Priest but beat Cubelock can start coming into play.
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True, but because every aggro deck just got worse (except Secret Mage?) , it frees you up for more tech against those decks. I was thinking people would start doing Cube/Control hybrids but maybe going hard control is just better. I guess mainly I think Warlock is very well positioned.

Unrelated, but from a Wild perspective, while I'm glad this will do a lot to fix Wild's "dumpster format" reputation, I'm still doubtful people will care. Blizzard is actually doing a half decent job of supporting Wild, so hopefully they push it a little more this year. Also, I'm in the minority because I didn't quite mind Wild being high-power, but now I kind of want to see an "anything goes" format that reverts all cards to pre-nerf, just to see what happens. The Worlds Tavern Brawl showed they have the technology! Get on it Blizzard.
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