Board 8 > Game of Thrones Season 7 - The enemy always wins. (SPOILERS)

(+) Yeah! (+)

also: dragonglass kills wights in the show, confirmed. at least the living have a chance.

also: GOLDEN COMPANY HYPE
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I feel like Tywin would have agreed to the truce, sent his forces with the Alliance, but worked to subvert it from within. A more sensible Cersei-lite variant would be to actually send the Lannister troops with them but then hire the Golden Company/anyone with the Iron Bank money and retake the South with that.

Not sending anyone at all is just going to be noticed immediately with no plausible deniability lol. Obviously the Alliance can't afford to turn around and immediately depose her but it's still an awful plan.
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also: god damn i'm so bitter that jon's name is aegon

rhaegar literally already had a son named aegon

ughhh
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Forgive me if the question has already been asked/answered but I don't have time to read all this. Wtf happened at Casterly Rock? Last we saw the unsullied were about to get wrecked by euron's fleet and then they all magically show up at Kings landing unscathed like nothing happened. Any ideas?
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I'd guess they abandoned the castle and marched across the land. The timeframe fits. They weren't in time to fight for Highgarden (to the South) but managed to make it to King's Landing (to the East).
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Commodore posted...

Forgive me if the question has already been asked/answered but I don't have time to read all this. Wtf happened at Casterly Rock? Last we saw the unsullied were about to get wrecked by euron's fleet and then they all magically show up at Kings landing unscathed like nothing happened. Any ideas?

I mean, I guess Euron's objective was just to torch the fleet and then leave. I suppose the Unsullied marched to KL by land? It's the only way I think it works.
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Man that whole Winterfell plot was so contrived and dumb. Theon's fight scene was pretty dumb too but his convo with Jon makes up for it

theon's fight scene is perfect if he gets kicked once, and then kicks other dude right in his non chopped off dick
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So both sides just decided to forget Casterly Rock and leave it wide open after they both fought to claim it?
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the lannisters ransacked and abandoned CR, leaving it without provisions or food. the unsullied would have been unable to hold it without food. the idea of jaime's power move in 7x03 was to render CR worthless from a military strategy standpoint.
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True. I just fail to see how both sides would face each other and be like "nah we're good". Unsullied could've stood their ground or Euron could've capitalized
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Commodore posted...

So both sides just decided to forget Casterly Rock and leave it wide open after they both fought to claim it?

Apparently!

To be fair, Cersei seems to have abandoned it on purpose because it actually holds little value now (recall Tywin explaining to her they're actually broke) instead using it as bait to draw in Daenerys and deal damage to her army. Also, she doesn't care about the Rock so long as she holds KL.

Meanwhile, the Unsullied (mind you, this now all assumes they're in contact with Tyrion or Varys or someone who knows their Westeros ****) will have noticed that the Rock has been abandoned and thus there's no real value in holding it if no one cares about it.

tl;dr: KL is the real prize. You win the Iron Throne you can likely take Casterly Rock unopposed. Team Daenerys simply misjudged Casterly Rock's importance to Cersei and thought taking it would actually be significant to the war.
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kirbypikachuhat posted...

My favorite part was clegane bowl not happening and I truly hope it never does.

who hurt you
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I completely get that from the Unsullied side, but why would Euron have them at his mercy and let them go?
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Commodore posted...

I completely get that from the Unsullied side, but why would Euron have them at his mercy and let them go?

Did he though? The Ironborn are supposed to be best at naval combat. So wrecking a bunch of ships that are likely largely empty (since the Unsullied would have left them to attack the Rock) would be easy. Trying to engage them in a land fight would be much more in the Unsullied wheelhouse.

Euron could destroy the fleet with minimal effort or risk. Trying to actually engage the Unsullied would likely incur massive causalities. If anything, we're supposed to think they'd be the superior fighters in a direct conflict. Euron could only have so much siege weaponry on him too, so it's not like he could just try and blast them from the sea forever.
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Also the disgusting image of such a great character like Littlefinger on his knees begging such a catastrophically bad character like Sansa for mercy before having his throat cut is going to be stained into my brain forever.

Tragic episode. There were some good bits, like the opening press conference of CLEGANEBOWL, and the tension between the Lannister siblings.

But ugh some of that was atrocious.
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Fair. So the Unsullied tucked tail and ran, Euron wasn't gonna chase them bc they might lose plus the logistics of docking a fleet and trying to make up ground. Makes sense but should've been addressed given the last scene we saw
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ExThaNemesis posted...

But ugh some of that was atrocious.

i feel like i have been VINDICATED for both saying that was the only logical conclusion to Littlefinger's arc and that Cleganebowl made no sense.

i did lol when the hound went up to him to talk smack though.

if not for your topic on the board earlier i might actually have believed it was about to happen >_>
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Sorry for the spoilers I was stupidly drunk last night.

The logical conclusion for Littlefinger's arc was HIM ENDING UP ON THE IRON THRONE out of sheer manipulation.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Sorry for the spoilers I was stupidly drunk last night.

No worries. I could tell you didn't do it out of malicious intent or anything.
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It's irredeemable because there's no suspension of disbelief strong enough to convince me Littlefinger would've stayed in Winterfell to walk into that trap.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

It's irredeemable because there's no suspension of disbelief strong enough to convince me Littlefinger would've stayed in Winterfell to walk into that trap.

But it was strong enough to last through him not knowing Ramsay Bolton was a psychopath and thinking marrying Sansa to him was a good idea?

show littlefinger has been dumb for a long time
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Like there's zero sense in him not BOLTING the second he heard Bran say chaos is a ladder.
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maybe he figured "well if he hasn't told sansa anything yet i must be safe"

not accounting for the fact that bran keeps highly relevant info to himself for no apparent reason >_>
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Also they TOTALLY botched Rhaegar's casting.

He was not supposed to look like a goober like Viserys. He was supposed to look awesome.
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I am disappointed that they didn't have the budget to bring down more of the wall.
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They didn't even have the budget to have Ghost go with Jon and the squad.

dragons taking all the budget
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I feel like this season had a lot of plot points that needed to be hit, but how we got to those plot points was thoroughly underwhelming.

The Littlefinger death needed to happen, but how we got there was pretty dumb.

The zombie dragon needed to happen, but the entire plot that led to it was super dumb.

Theon going after Yara, and that fight scene. Bleh.
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That was a standard episode. Some dumb stuff, some cool stuff.

Favorite thing by far was Cersei shenanigans. Going out and in and around the truce was the best.
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I hate the way Littlefinger went out. I know he had to die to Sansa in the end, that was always obvious, but Bran basically told him that he can see the past and knows what he's up to... so he conspires against Arya? Either you try to kill Bran or you immediately leave Winterfell, but you don't just continue on as normal. Even if you assume Bran told Sansa and Arya everything happening off-screen and that Littlefinger's plan would have worked otherwise (which undoes the entire "Sansa overcoming Littlefinger" part), it still makes no sense that Littlefinger just ignored Bran.

I guess they just had to write out one more subplot.
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They look like they carved Rheagar out of a block of wood and then beat him over the head with a steel pipe a few times.
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The whole Winterfell thing was awful, LF's death was awful, etc etc

What exactly was the point in giving Sansa to the Bolton's again??
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By the way, to the people annoyed at Rhaegar naming two sons Aegon...

He didn't divorce his wife, he had the marriage annulled. That means that the marriage was never valid and his children in it are just bastards. That means Aegon Targaryen (Jon) is to be his 'real' son and Aegon Sand (his original son) is just kicked to the curb.

It makes sense if you assume Rhaegar is a completely heartless jackass.
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Menji posted...

What exactly was the point in giving Sansa to the Bolton's again??

IIRC, they thought they'd lose people if they had Sansa chill with Littlefinger in the Vale and learn/play politics. So they gave her something else to do.

that it didn't make any sense in-universe was ignored
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Also, does this mean that ANYONE that dies now will come back from the dead?

WHAT IF LITTLEFINGER COMES BACK

and if the Dorne ladies are still alive
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Menji posted...

Also, does this mean that ANYONE that dies now will come back from the dead?

WHAT IF LITTLEFINGER COMES BACK

There's probably not a lot of politicking to be done in the army of the dead.
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Anagram posted...

Menji posted...

Also, does this mean that ANYONE that dies now will come back from the dead?

WHAT IF LITTLEFINGER COMES BACK

There's probably not a lot of politicking to be done in the army of the dead.

I'm sure there'll need to be one that can communicate somewhat.
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You know, I have no opinion about this episode, it might have had good scenes, it might have some bad one, I don't care I never paid too much attention
I woke up at 5AM to see it because I was curious about one part in particular and I couldn't care about the rest of the episode
You see, I came into this episode with 2 spoilers - one of them didn't happen - -it might have been delayed to season 7, a fake spoiler or just scrapped (I want to believe it's the last one, it really is a dumb thing) and the other one is Littlefinger death.

I just..couldn't believe it. I didn't want to believe it, when I read it after episode 6 and it seemed like Littlefinger plan worked, I thought "wait, what? how did it escalate so quickly?"
And I just had to watch this episode as soon as possible to see it happen

And I saw it. It sucked. It was the worst scene in the entire show. People might say shit to "bad pussy" but this one was worse. This is the most disappointing death I have ever seen in any media whatsoever.

This is fucking Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish. This is the fucking person that planned EVERYTHING. He is the reason the show exists. He set everything into motion. He was responsible to the death of Ned Stark which was as close to a main character as possible. He was responsible to the death of Joffrey. He was responsible to Cersei getting caught by the Sparrows.
He is the show most cunning character. He was supposed to be the biggest mastermind in the entire show.
And you want to tell me he got bested by two little girls? seriously?

A mastermind can/should only be bested by someone of equal intellect. He shouldn't get bested by the likes of Sansa which is one of the dumber characters in the show.
Using someone like Bran or someone with mind reading traits to reveal a mastermind is so damn cheap

And just when I thought the idea itself is bad - they way they did is even worse
Littlefinger begging for his life? crying? SERIOUSLY? is this really how they wanted him to die? by acting so out of character, by making him turn out to be a pussy?
Yeah tough characters that reveal they are actually weak when they are going to die and beg for their life is nothing new, but usually it does fit the character - but it doesn't apply here
This is not the way I imagined it to go, this is not the way it should have gone.

When people bitched about the bad writing this season, I couldn't give a shit.
Jon surviving ice cold water? fine. The whole plan to catch a wight with just 10 people? fine. Tyrion going to talk with Cersei alone? fine
But getting rid of Littlefinger so easily? making him beg for mercy? using Bran cheap power to expose him? no, I refuse to accept that as good writing
This is the lowest point of the show
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Dude chill and watch death note or something if you want that
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Nanis23 posted...

A mastermind can/should only be bested by someone of equal intellect. He shouldn't get bested by the likes of Sansa which is one of the dumber characters in the show.

Sansa isn't supposed to be dumb. The past 3 seasons were supposed to show that Littlefinger has been teaching Sansa everything he knows about playing the game, it's the whole student outsmarts the teacher thing and it's been obvious that it would end this way for a LONG time.
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I'm actually a bit surprised at all the hate for Littlefinger's death. Again, Show!Littlefinger has shown a noticeable drop in competence since... Season 4, I want to say? Even as far back as when he and Sansa were in the Vale.

It's just he's avoided the consequences of that drop until now. I mean, is that all it really is here? The fact that he'd been significantly less intelligent in the show didn't matter to people because the writing shielded him as if he still were?
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foolm0r0n posted...

Dude chill and watch death note or something if you want that

please game of thrones hasn't sunk that low yet

and i don't even think it could if it tried
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Nanis23 posted...

A mastermind can/should only be bested by someone of equal intellect. He shouldn't get bested by the likes of Sansa which is one of the dumber characters in the show.

He always had a weakness for Sansa and her mom. It made perfect sense that she would be his downfall. He can see the big picture, but she was his Achilles' Heel. Always was.

Nanis23 posted...

Using someone like Bran or someone with mind reading traits to reveal a mastermind is so damn cheap

When Littlefinger learned of Bran's powers, he had many choices, some of which could have involved killing Bran or leaving Winterfell. Killing Bran would make already suspicious people more suspicious of him, and leaving Winterfell would put him apart from Sansa again, and go against his longterm plans for power. He may have thought that since Bran already knew everything, he didn't care.

Nanis23 posted...

Littlefinger begging for his life? crying? SERIOUSLY? is this really how they wanted him to die? by acting so out of character, by making him turn out to be a pussy? Yeah tough characters that reveal they are actually weak when they are going to die and beg for their life is nothing new, but usually it does fit the character - but it doesn't apply hereThis is not the way I imagined it to go, this is not the way it should have gone.

Littlefinger was never shown to be someone strong. He told a story a while back about being bested in a duel, and how he would never fight like that. It's fitting that when he was confronted with true danger once again, he reverted back to his sniveling and crying, because he was so used to being in the shadows away from danger.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

True, but I gave up hope for him years ago when it became clear this show was going full feminist.

I heard in the original script he was explaining to the winterfell guards how to donate to the Trump 2020 campaign when Arya slit his throat (wearing a JFK mask of course)
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Also friends told me that in the books Littlefinger is much more cunning than show Littlefinger
I want to see what will happen to him in te books..because from what I understand, this shit wouldn't fly there
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a lot of things in the show wouldn't fly in the books

including a lot of the things littlefinger did in the show
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brace yourselves, salt incoming

everything leading up to the meeting in the dragonpit felt like filler

the meeting itself was incredibly awkward and poorly done.
I think if you take every scene where Dany has met with someone, it usually starts with a big introduction, reading of titles, and getting right into the discussion
I think you you take every scene where Cersei has met with someone it usually starts with a big introduction, reading of titles, and getting right into he discussion

somehow when you put the two of them together it leads to people awkwardly sitting around and staring at each other for 5 minutes

also the hound pausing to talk shit to his brother while they're standing 5 feet away from the queen and none of the people in charge have even said hello to each other yet was just cringeworthy
even rory mccann's awesome delivery could not save it

all of the lannister/lannister interactions were amazing
tyrion and jaime outside of cersei's chambers
you get the subtle feeling that jaime is less and less angry with tyrion as time goes on
tyrion and cersei alone was pretty good. probably the weakest of the lannister scenes.
jaime and cersei together at the end was great. everything we could have hoped for.
they slowed jaime's development from the books a bit but the payoff was great here.
especially since a big theme of this episode was about honor and doing the right thing.
well, uh, at least for parts of it. the tonal inconsistency is another issue.
but him refusing to go back on the oath he swore and then departing king's landing was well done,
and it fit some of the messages they were trying to convey at least
similarly when they reveal that everything in the dragon pit was part of cersei's ploy
that was just amazing
once again I think she's way more competent than book cersei
but as for this version of the character I think she is really great and this is consistent with her development

the littlefinger stuff is sloppily done from a directing standpoint
it makes sense that sansa first gets the idea that LF was playing them against each other
specifically because of his "I play a game" speech
she probably in that moment thought about LF's own motives and behaviors
and that's what caused her to realize that LF was working against her
this explains why her and arya were truly antagonistic toward each other earlier
here's the part that doesn't make sense
later on her and arya seem to already be on the same page
did this meeting happen offscreen?
why did arya trust that sansa was telling the truth when she said that littlefinger had been playing them?
it was just a really poor choice not to show how the conflict between the sisters was resolved
it makes it seem like they were just playing LF all along which is not internally consistent with their previous behavior
the truth is that it was simply done for dramatic effect. because it's a TV show.
that's never a good reason to do anything in terms of writing.
similarly, calling in a big fake ceremony to accuse arya and then revealing dramatically that she was accusing littlefinger.
LOL
holy shit that is so fucking corny
can't believe they actually went there

theon's scene with jon was good.
would've been better if it ended with jon saying "you're my brother" rather than "you're a stark"
but whatever, that's a nitpick
good acting and character interactions from both characters

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