Board 8 > This is how political correctness dies

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://pastebin.com/qmXsEY5a

TL;DR: Senior Google employee exposes politically correct nonsense in the company and points out how this is bad for business. Not even a right-winger, just someone isn't so much to the left to fall off the map.

The madness is coming to an end. Fortunately, it didn't take as long as communism in the Eastern bloc...
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Yeah, pretty much that entire essay has already been debunked from what I've read.
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debunked from what metroid composite read? that settles it, none of the 4000 words in that thing are worthy of any consideration then
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interesting read. just finished it.

also it's an opinion piece. how can it be debunked? are you saying someone went through and proved that he doesn't actually believe all of the statements he typed out there? each of them? one by one? must have taken a lot of work.
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MariaTaylor posted...

interesting read. just finished it.

also it's an opinion piece. how can it be debunked? are you saying someone went through and proved that he doesn't actually believe all of the statements he typed out there? each of them? one by one? must have taken a lot of work.

Opinions can be wrong. It's always cute to say they can't be, but also mistaken because fundamentally, an opinion is a personal appraisal of a given fact or set of facts. If the facts you're opining on do not exist (ie they aren't true) or your opinion contradicts reality (every instance of assuming correlation implies causation, for example), your opinion is in fact wrong (or if you'd prefer, invalid and unworthy of being heard because it's as valuable to other people as a delusion). Opinions aren't voiced just to hear the sound of your own voice, they are voiced to advance a discussion with worthwhile observation, and from a more selfish point of view to acquire respect off of their perceived value to listeners. Thus if you cannot in fact provide something valuable to the discussion, your opinion is wrong.
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Newsflash: Two contradicting opinions can be valid.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

MariaTaylor posted...

interesting read. just finished it.

also it's an opinion piece. how can it be debunked? are you saying someone went through and proved that he doesn't actually believe all of the statements he typed out there? each of them? one by one? must have taken a lot of work.

Opinions can be wrong. It's always cute to say they can't be, but also mistaken because fundamentally, an opinion is a personal appraisal of a given fact or set of facts. If the facts you're opining on do not exist (ie they aren't true) or your opinion contradicts reality (every instance of assuming correlation implies causation, for example), your opinion is in fact wrong (or if you'd prefer, invalid and unworthy of being heard because it's as valuable to other people as a delusion). Opinions aren't voiced just to hear the sound of your own voice, they are voiced to advance a discussion with worthwhile observation, and from a more selfish point of view to acquire respect off of their perceived value to listeners. Thus if you cannot in fact provide something valuable to the discussion, your opinion is wrong.

Sure but this article didn't have any factual inaccuracies or anything so it's not really "debunkable" in the way that it might otherwise be.
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If anything, it's written in a ridiculously try-hard polite way. It only tells a third of the story at best - and even that is more than enough to destroy what little is left of the cultural marxism's credibility.
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I think she means stuff like this:

[4] For heterosexual romantic relationships, men are more strongly judged by status and women by beauty. Again, this has biological origins and is culturally universal.

stated as fact, but is just a flat out falsehood.

Also how bad is Google doing, business-wise?
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WhoopsyDaisy posted...

Sure but this article didn't have any factual inaccuracies or anything so it's not really "debunkable" in the way that it might otherwise be.

Actually, it does. It has a severe case of opinion-as-facts. Example:

Men’s higher drive for status

We always ask why we don’t see women in top leadership positions, but we never ask why we see so many men in these jobs. These positions often require long, stressful hours that may not be worth it if you want a balanced and fulfilling life. Status is the primary metric that men are judged on[4], pushing many men into these higher paying, less satisfying jobs for the status that they entail. Note, the same forces that lead men into high pay/high stress jobs in tech and leadership cause men to take undesirable and dangerous jobs like coal mining, garbage collection, and firefighting, and suffer 93% of work-related deaths.

Just a quick set of notes from reading this over:

-Unstated assumption that the percentage of women with capacity to bear the burden of leadership is severely inferior to men, as a primary cause for a lack of women leaders (note the absence of any sources indicating that the number of leadership-capable women is sensibly inferior to the number of men, as opposed to any amount of societal biases).
-Unstated assumption that status not being the primary metric that women are judged on is a desirable thing, and that we should not work to change that.
-Unstated assumption leadership is hard, unrewarding and unsatisfactory. I have to sleep now but ping me in like 8-10 hours if you can and I'll look for studies debunking this. Generally speaking, people who climb to leadership positions don't despise their jobs, because you need a certain temperament that relishes in organizing people to be noticed as leader material in the first place. Nobody assigns leadership by seeing who gets the shortest straw, leaders are a self-selecting population for the most part.

Three unstated assumptions indicating the writer's biases, which he takes as gospel, in just a single paragraph. You see the problem here? It's one thing to act like your opinion is correct but invite challenges (this is in fact a common method of inciting serious debate in learned circles, with a longstanding history in academia). It's another to act like your opinion is correct and want the world to change to suit it without properly justifying it. This is more the latter than the former. The whole memo is like that.
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Vlado posted...

If anything, it's written in a ridiculously try-hard polite way

So the document which ends political correctness was written in such a way as to not offend anybody.

How ironic.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

-Unstated assumption

i.e. "I'm making this up."

Jakyl25 posted...

Vlado posted...

If anything, it's written in a ridiculously try-hard polite way

So the document which ends political correctness was written in such a way as to not offend anybody.

How ironic.

Indeed. Political correctness dies with a whimper rather than a bang.
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Oh, fun fact BTW, picking out a line because it stands out to me:

the Left tends to deny science concerning biological differences between people (e.g., IQ[8] and sex differences).

This is dogwhistling for saying 'blacks and hispanics are dumber than whites and asians'. Source: I literally just had a conversation like four hours ago with a guy who I thought was my friend who revealed he was a Nazi, who used exactly this fucking argument in favor of why every ethnicity except european whites and northeast asians should be sterilized and stopped from breeding. So, y'know, this kinda stuff should always be questioned, thoroughly explored, sourced, and if debunked, people who champion it should be laughed out of the room. It's not super healthy to let these kinds of statements go unchallenged.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

This is dogwhistling for saying 'blacks and hispanics are dumber than whites and asians'. Source: I literally just had a conversation like four hours ago with a guy who I thought was my friend who revealed he was a Nazi, who used exactly this fucking argument in favor of why every ethnicity except european whites and northeast asians should be sterilized and stopped from breeding. So, y'know, this kinda stuff should always be questioned, thoroughly explored, sourced, and if debunked, people who champion it should be laughed out of the room. It's not super healthy to let these kinds of statements go unchallenged.

lmao, using a probably fabricated anecdote to justify anything.

Nobody sane believes group statistics apply to every single individual in the group. Least of all, the author of the original article.
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And one more for the road before I go to sleep:

Yes, in a national aggregate, women have lower salaries than men for a variety of reasons. For the same work though, women get paid just as much as men. Considering women spend more money than men and that salary represents how much the employees sacrifices (e.g. more hours, stress, and danger), we really need to rethink our stereotypes around power.

Read this bit. Like, actually, properly read it. It's saying 'women make less money than men. In spite of this, women get paid just as much as men for the same jobs'. The subtle implication here is that women aren't doing the same jobs as men and that is why they're making less money. This is demonstrably false. The wage gap exists and women do, in fact make less money than men for the same jobs. Took me five minutes of googling to find an example in exactly google's area, tech:

https://www.glassdoor.com/research/studies/gender-pay-gap/

You see why this piece is a bunch of nonsense? It doesn't stand up to scientific scrutiny, and it makes tons of false assumptions conforming to the writer's biases. Dude is stuck in his own personal lalaland instead of reality.
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Vlado posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

This is dogwhistling for saying 'blacks and hispanics are dumber than whites and asians'. Source: I literally just had a conversation like four hours ago with a guy who I thought was my friend who revealed he was a Nazi, who used exactly this fucking argument in favor of why every ethnicity except european whites and northeast asians should be sterilized and stopped from breeding. So, y'know, this kinda stuff should always be questioned, thoroughly explored, sourced, and if debunked, people who champion it should be laughed out of the room. It's not super healthy to let these kinds of statements go unchallenged.

lmao, using a probably fabricated anecdote to justify anything.

Nobody sane believes group statistics apply to every single individual in the group. Least of all, the author of the original article.

Feels nice when I get to bury your face in the dirt by using quotes from the piece you like so much just preemptively. You're so predictable I crafted a response incidentally just by wanting to make sure better people than you who didn't look at this piece more closely didn't get suckered by it.
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lmao, are you serious? There have been countless sources disproving this myth now. You're way behind the times. Time to let go.
https://archive.fo/ndct5

It's funny to watch people who jumped on the "political correctness" train AFTER it became clear it was heading right off the edge of a cliff. :)
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Vlado posted...

lmao, are you serious? There have been countless sources disproving this myth now. You're way behind the times. Time to let go.
https://archive.fo/ndct5

It's funny to watch people who jumped on the "political correctness" train AFTER it became clear it was heading right off the edge of a cliff. :)

Moreover, even if the bulk of the BBC’s 9,000 female employees are not underpaid relative to their male colleagues, the list does suggest a problem among the broadcaster’s top brass. That pattern is fairly common. Pay gaps between men and women in the same roles at the same employers are narrow across Europe for 15 of the 16 job levels in Korn Ferry’s database—but the highest one is the exception. In Spain and Germany, top-ranking women make 15-20% less than similarly high-flying men.

(Graph above this quote in the article: shows off pay gaps, which steadily increase as you rise up the ranks and then go ultramassive at the executive level)

You should actually read what you quote, Vlado. Data means something and you should learn to interpret it.
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lmao

According to data for 8.7m employees worldwide gathered by Korn Ferry, a consultancy, women in Britain make just 1% less than men who have the same function and level at the same employer. In most European countries, the discrepancy is similarly small.

But surely data on 20 ridiculously high-paid journalists is more reliable!
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how is this the death of political correctness

it's literally a single employee whining that the rest of the company is a liberal bastion
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It's because the capable employees largely share his views. You can't purge your capable employees because your company dies (especially if it's a giant like google). Thus, you ease the politically correct madness gradually, until it's marginal.

Needless to say, processes at google will be reflected across other tech giants.
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Remember, it's only confirmation bias if you don't agree with it!
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Vlado posted...

lmao

According to data for 8.7m employees worldwide gathered by Korn Ferry, a consultancy, women in Britain make just 1% less than men who have the same function and level at the same employer. In most European countries, the discrepancy is similarly small.

But surely data on 20 ridiculously high-paid journalists is more reliable!

Why do they make 1% less?
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I was wondering when Vlado would come out of the shadows to boast about things he doesn't understand again.
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Vlado posted...

You can't purge your capable employees because your company dies (especially if it's a giant like google).

I just want to isolate this little gem, btw. It starts out like a Luster statement and then swerves into full wtf.
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Vlado posted...

Nobody sane believes group statistics apply to every single individual in the group. Least of all, the author of the original article.

I do love when vlado inserts himself into his fan fictions.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

I'm full of myself, despite having no basis whatsoever for it.

We knew, but thanks for the post, I guess.
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Oh you guys
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Kanzaris seems just as biased if not more than Vlado
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Why the fuck are you taking a Vlado topic seriously


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^
This is the last place to be posting that. I mean, unless you choose to ignore facts.
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lol they're talking about this on the news this morning. But they're takeaway is that a google employee made anti-diversity statements. Sort of missing the point of all this.
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Vlado posted...

^
This is the last place to be posting that. I mean, unless you choose to ignore facts.

You are a pigeon 'playing' chess so all of your topics are an appropriate place for UBW.
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

lol they're talking about this on the news this morning. But they're takeaway is that a google employee made anti-diversity statements. Sort of missing the point of all this.

It's what cultural marxists do. By now, you shouldn't be surprised.
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Vlado posted...

EndOfDiscOne posted...

lol they're talking about this on the news this morning. But they're takeaway is that a google employee made anti-diversity statements. Sort of missing the point of all this.

It's what cultural marxists do. By now, you shouldn't be surprised.

I just googled "google employee" and literally every news article is about how a google employee wrote an anti-diversity manifesto. I don't usually buy into the "fake news" accusations that get thrown around, but this really highlights how the overwhelmingly liberal media will set the narrative to whatever they want. I don't see how anyone can support this.
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I don't see how anyone can support "you are worse with technology because of your internal organs"
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Hey Vlado, how have you been lately? Haven't seen you in a while
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Always such a fun subject. Facts that make us feel bad aren't true, right? I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

So often I wish humans were capable of just accepting facts while also accepting we don't want to discourage anyone from pursuing their goals despite who's more statistically apt at what. We're all equals as human beings first and foremost.

Edit: and oh yes, the media narrative could not be any less subtle. Not fake news, but sheesh, slant. Almost a vertical line. :P
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Just read the article and I wouldn't be surprised if this changes nothing.

My initial reaction is that I believe the authors writing isn't strong enough to cause change--though maybe not being very strong is the right style. I also think he should've cited sources to backup his points, though maybe he never really intended for this to go viral. Or maybe he doesn't care about citing his sources and knows many people don't need to have sources cited to incite this making a difference.

Also the media slant is strong.
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A company too far to the right may be slow to react, overly hierarchical, and untrusting of others. In contrast, a company too far to the left will constantly be changing (deprecating much loved services), over diversify its interests (ignoring or being ashamed of its core business), and overly trust its employees and competitors.

Literally what
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Poor Vlado, he's fallen so far.

If you want attention just write some more fanfiction, people loved that. No need to waste your time with dumb shit like this.
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Political correctness is a boogeyman I'll never understand.
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Umbreon posted...

Political correctness is a boogeyman I'll never understand.

People just straight up want to be assholes and not get called out for it, simple as that.

Without the ability to make jokes about Mexicans, what else does the white man have?
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Here are valid criticisms that should be addressed, regardless of whatever biotruths may or may not be true or racist or sexist or whatever:

" Programs, mentoring, and classes only for people with a certain gender or race [5]
A high priority queue and special treatment for “diversity” candidates
Hiring practices which can effectively lower the bar for “diversity” candidates by decreasing the false negative rate
Reconsidering any set of people if it’s not “diverse” enough, but not showing that same scrutiny in the reverse direction (clear confirmation bias)
Setting org level OKRs for increased representation which can incentivize illegal discrimination [6]"
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This was not a senior employee, it was a rank-and-file engineer. This, on the other hand, was written by an actual senior employee who only just left the company extremely recently, and tears down some of the less-obviously bullshit parts of the letter: https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788
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Are you saying Vlado's info was, gasp, bullshit?

Oh, wait, it already WAS the start of his fanfiction!

My favorite part is the implication that the original author's poor understanding of engineering implies he's a fairly new employee.
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The vlado I know would never try to deceive anyone by twisting facts to fit his narrative.
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WazzupGenius00 posted...

This was not a senior employee, it was a rank-and-file engineer. This, on the other hand, was written by an actual senior employee who only just left the company extremely recently, and tears down some of the less-obviously bullshit parts of the letter: https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788

While both articles show a lot of bias, I honestly think this one is more emotion fueled and written in a less reasonable way. I like how he admits that there are physiological difference between men and women, but only acknowledges the ones that are beneficial to women. And his "your views are unwelcome because they suck" is what I dislike most about the left, and this elitist attitude is what I believe keeps conservatives from opening up and wanting to work with liberals.
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

and this elitist attitude is what I believe keeps conservatives from opening up and wanting to work with liberals.

Really. You think this is why.
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

this elitist attitude is what I believe keeps conservatives from opening up and wanting to work with liberals.

Haha
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