Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Dark Samus Raiden Lightning Morrigan Poison Dizzy vs. Diablo and Chrom

(+) Yeah! (+)

Alany posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

Does Alany always vote how Kanz does

No, there's been several exceptions.

Only when it doesn't matter if they split. Otherwise it is always the same.
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raiden

serious width vs. density tradeoff on that hose and too many threats to tag them all

Team Dizzy.
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Are you serious, there are four insane threats on one side vs Diablo, come on

Beyond that Morrigan has revive and buffs.

Diablo isn't going to kill every single one of them in 5 seconds, it's not like he's starting on top of them. Light has curaga use to mitigate, Morrigan can revive dead ppl, Raiden is tank af and so is Damus who is also parameter boosted.

This a stomp come on now
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MajinZidane posted...

Are you serious, there are four insane threats on one side vs Diablo, come on

Beyond that Morrigan has revive and buffs.

Diablo isn't going to kill every single one of them in 5 seconds, it's not like he's starting on top of them. Light has curaga use to mitigate, Morrigan can revive dead ppl, Raiden is tank af and so is Damus who is also parameter boosted.

This a stomp come on now

Diablo being able to kill 4 stunned targets in 5 seconds is less believable than fighting armies?
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Oh yeah armies of tanky 6 upkeep mercs
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MajinZidane posted...

Oh yeah armies of tanky 6 upkeep mercs

Upkeep doesn't make a difference on the merc. And, according to some, a single Nephalem is a 7 upkeep merc. (Not really but you know).
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Point was these guys are on a different level than the armies he fights, that's all
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Corrik, he still has to deal with a non-stunned Dizzy.

You know, the person who blows up mountains as warning shots. And flies. And can get ordered to attack by Poison before Poison kicks it.
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trdl23 posted...

Corrik, he still has to deal with a non-stunned Dizzy.

You know, the person who blows up mountains as warning shots. And flies. And can get ordered to attack by Poison before Poison kicks it.

Where was this 'Dizzy flies' respect vs Raiden, damnit.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

trdl23 posted...

Corrik, he still has to deal with a non-stunned Dizzy.

You know, the person who blows up mountains as warning shots. And flies. And can get ordered to attack by Poison before Poison kicks it.

Where was this 'Dizzy flies' respect vs Raiden, damnit.

I snap-voted Dizzy there, yo!
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trdl23 posted...

Corrik, he still has to deal with a non-stunned Dizzy.

You know, the person who blows up mountains as warning shots. And flies. And can get ordered to attack by Poison before Poison kicks it.

Dizzy comes 30 seconds late. The others are dead by then.
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Corrik posted...

trdl23 posted...

Corrik, he still has to deal with a non-stunned Dizzy.

You know, the person who blows up mountains as warning shots. And flies. And can get ordered to attack by Poison before Poison kicks it.

Dizzy comes 30 seconds late. The others are dead by then.

That doesn't mean it's a TKO. She still comes in. Only Sephiroth has the text of "if his team dies before he arrives, he still loses."
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Diablo basically gets two free shots on Dizzy, though. Once because you have to assume there's some kind of time for the whole "Poison's orders" thing to take effect, whether because Poison actually has to give the orders right then, or because Dizzy has to process them + the battlefield, and then two because Dizzy immediately snaps back into "Do not attack until attacked" mode the second Poison dies, which... She will. Quickly.
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StealThisSheen posted...

Diablo basically gets two free shots on Dizzy, though.

Not really, no. It says refuses to fight until she's attacked. This doesn't mean "until damage is dealt", this means until she thinks she's under attack. Which will be pretty clear and considering her agility it wouldn't be surprising if Diablo didn't hit at all.

Alany posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

Diablo basically gets two free shots on Dizzy, though.

Not really, no. It says refuses to fight until she's attacked. This doesn't mean "until damage is dealt", this means until she thinks she's under attack. Which will be pretty clear and considering her agility it wouldn't be surprising if Diablo didn't hit at all.

I could buy her trying to dodge until damage was dealt, but she certainly isn't attacking back until damage is dealt.
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StealThisSheen posted...

Alany posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

Diablo basically gets two free shots on Dizzy, though.

Not really, no. It says refuses to fight until she's attacked. This doesn't mean "until damage is dealt", this means until she thinks she's under attack. Which will be pretty clear and considering her agility it wouldn't be surprising if Diablo didn't hit at all.

I could buy her trying to dodge until damage was dealt, but she certainly isn't attacking back until damage is dealt.

Does it say "damaged" or "attacked"? The wording is as it says, man.
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trdl23 posted...

Corrik posted...

trdl23 posted...

Corrik, he still has to deal with a non-stunned Dizzy.

You know, the person who blows up mountains as warning shots. And flies. And can get ordered to attack by Poison before Poison kicks it.

Dizzy comes 30 seconds late. The others are dead by then.

That doesn't mean it's a TKO. She still comes in. Only Sephiroth has the text of "if his team dies before he arrives, he still loses."

And? Dizzy isnt beating diablo 1v1
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Gotta love fanboyz nulling ability text.
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Lopen posted...

Gotta love fanboyz nulling ability text.

Who u referring to cuz i read all text despite the again wrong write up.
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I'm talking about 'Dizzy gets attacked, dodges, and fights at full capacity the whole time '

Why even put any bold there if that's all it amounts to.
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trdl23 posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

Alany posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

Diablo basically gets two free shots on Dizzy, though.

Not really, no. It says refuses to fight until she's attacked. This doesn't mean "until damage is dealt", this means until she thinks she's under attack. Which will be pretty clear and considering her agility it wouldn't be surprising if Diablo didn't hit at all.

I could buy her trying to dodge until damage was dealt, but she certainly isn't attacking back until damage is dealt.

Does it say "damaged" or "attacked"? The wording is as it says, man.

If it's just "Attacked in a way that can miss," then that makes the ability useless, since anybody attacking the team at all would put Dizzy under the impression that she's "under attack."

I think it's been very clear that it's intended as "successfully attacked," and to argue otherwise is very dishonest.

EDIT: Actually, I think that even spells out the difference. The ability says "Attacked," not "under attack." That suggests that the attack has to succeed. In almost any RPG, somebody will be awaken from Sleep if they're "attacked," but the attack has to hit. A miss doesn't work. I definitely think it's like that.
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Lopen posted...

I'm talking about 'Dizzy gets attacked, dodges, and fights at full capacity the whole time '

Why even put any bold there if that's all it amounts to.

Samus can't survive diablos initial barrage without suit debilitating effects. Anyone arguing otherwise is insane. Then a compromised samus versus both chrom and diablo is an easy mop up before the others come into the fight.
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And most are just assuming chrom can't also attack into samus following the stun when dark samus is fuckedddd up.
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Corrik, he's not referring to you.

He's referring to people like Alany and trdl that are basically going "If somebody swings a sword in Dizzy's direction at all, even if twenty feet away, she can attack back."
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Here is how board 8 sees it as dumb as usual. The fight starts with the enemy team stunned for 5 seconds in an arena close by with no cover. Diablo knows this (with 125% params?). But he starts the fight confused and thinks what to do. Chrom flexes in victory like a dumbass and doesn't move. Diablo last second decided to attack barely hurting a mage with no durability, an unarmored lightning, a speed but lack of durability raiden, and an armored Dark samus. Someone died randomly and Morrigan revives them cuz she totally isn't dead. Chrom dies to a stroke. Dark Samus kites in the completely undamaged suit until Dizzy and Poison shows up... dizzy attacks diablo and kills him with dark samus and raiden and then go out for shawarma to celebrate ^5.

Like half of board 8s arguments are always this person stands still til the team i want wins.
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Wait so Dizzy has to take damage for the passive to go away? Not that it matters because Dizzy can take out Diablo even after being hit once by him, it's not too important.
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GANON1025 posted...

Wait so Dizzy has to take damage for the passive to go away? Not that it matters because Dizzy can take out Diablo even after being hit once by him, it's not too important.

Then why ask
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GANON1025 posted...

Wait so Dizzy has to take damage for the passive to go away? Not that it matters because Dizzy can take out Diablo even after being hit once by him, it's not too important.

It certainly makes much more sense that way, since Dizzy ABSOLUTELY does not want to fight. So it makes more sense to treat it as... She gets hit and goes berserk, over... An attack comes in her direction and she suddenly decides to fight.
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There seem to be a lot more bad faith arguments today than usual.
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Hm, I don't know. It's hard because the Dizzy seen in the Xrd story absolutely would not hold back against Diablo, but her mercs passive forces her to. I just don't see Dizzy coming in, seeing her friends dying/dead and the evil monster that did it, said monster attacking her, the attack missing in some way and Dizzy still refusing to fight.
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But it says "attacked," not "under attack."

I can't think of a single instance in any game where something that triggers once "attacked" triggers on a missed attack. It just doesn't make sense.
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FFDragon posted...

There seem to be a lot more bad faith arguments today than usual.

I stopped trying much when kanz said he didn't care and it took several people to say it should be restarted for it to happen . No one should have had to say it when I pointed out the error it should have been fixed
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ScareChan posted...

FFDragon posted...

There seem to be a lot more bad faith arguments today than usual.

I stopped trying much when kanz said he didn't care and it took several people to say it should be restarted for it to happen . No one should have had to say it when I pointed out the error it should have been fixed

Chrid is the real one that got fucked. I didnt realize til his match was over that it wasnt a legit chess match.
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Yeah that's just a bad look for Kanz overall
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I'm not claiming hidden agenda or. Anything like that by the way. Nothing to gain from it
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StealThisSheen posted...

trdl23 posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

Alany posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

Diablo basically gets two free shots on Dizzy, though.

Not really, no. It says refuses to fight until she's attacked. This doesn't mean "until damage is dealt", this means until she thinks she's under attack. Which will be pretty clear and considering her agility it wouldn't be surprising if Diablo didn't hit at all.

I could buy her trying to dodge until damage was dealt, but she certainly isn't attacking back until damage is dealt.

Does it say "damaged" or "attacked"? The wording is as it says, man.

If it's just "Attacked in a way that can miss," then that makes the ability useless, since anybody attacking the team at all would put Dizzy under the impression that she's "under attack."

I think it's been very clear that it's intended as "successfully attacked," and to argue otherwise is very dishonest.

EDIT: Actually, I think that even spells out the difference. The ability says "Attacked," not "under attack." That suggests that the attack has to succeed. In almost any RPG, somebody will be awaken from Sleep if they're "attacked," but the attack has to hit. A miss doesn't work. I definitely think it's like that.

Hmm. That's a fair point, actually. I'm still iffy on it (and do think that still Dizzy who gets tagged once > Diablo, but my Diablo respect isn't super high) but I see where you're coming from.
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Those seem like weird semantics. I'd personally say if you're dodging attacks aimed at you (because that's what she would be doing, she's not going to just sit there and take attacks in pretty much any circumstance), you're still being attacked even if you're not being hit.
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FFDragon posted...

There seem to be a lot more bad faith arguments today than usual.

Get ready for 2 more weeks of Dizzy dude
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Dizzy is probably the worst thing in Mercs

Like, what's the point of the writeup if people are just going to go "Dizzy will just dodge and then fight full force gg Dizzy wins"
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StealThisSheen posted...

Dizzy is probably the worst thing in Mercs

Honestly, she's up there. As much as I clearly like an respect her, we should axe her for future games.
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trdl23 posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

Dizzy is probably the worst thing in Mercs

Honestly, she's up there. As much as I clearly like an respect her, we should axe her for future games.

Or just remove the dumb passive from her and make her a straight 7 or something

(I'm still baffled that we didn't get Sol on that note. May as well pick the guy who has eight games' worth of showings, not the waifu with three cutscenes IMO)
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Or just remove the dumb passive from her and make her a straight 7 or something

This would probably be better, if not outright axed

People are too obsessed with her and just ignore the passive
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I mean honestly, both Sol and Potemkin aren't exactly good for mercs because both consistently fight with limiters on for literally no reason.

Put in life/death situations, it'd make more sense for them to remove them, but they only sometimes do and sometimes not all the way or the entire time?

Just put Bedman in, strongest most cutscene-heavy fighter in the series. He'd appreciate the walls of text.
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KJH posted...

I mean honestly, both Sol and Potemkin aren't exactly good for mercs because both consistently fight with limiters on for literally no reason.

Put in life/death situations, it'd make more sense for them to remove them, but they only sometimes do and sometimes not all the way or the entire time?

Just put Bedman in, strongest most cutscene-heavy fighter in the series. He'd appreciate the walls of text.

Sol hasn't had limiters on in forever

they literally stopped working a while ago
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Dizzy's bad even without considering the derpy passive because her fans are too willing to go GameFAQs Dizzy when arguing her. Which is to be expected with waifu bait + the main issue she realistically has in a fight being her personality.
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Dizzy's passive is a huge deal in any terrain that doesn't have the parties directly facing off against each other, because I would see her saying "oh no, a fight, I don't want to have to hurt anyone" and running off to hide. Which in practice means she's not going to be around for any teamfight ever.

Also I agree that personality is a big deal even with the passive removed - like I don't see her willing to nuke enemies ever (barring ability use like Poison).
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Lopen posted...

Dizzy's bad even without considering the derpy passive because her fans are too willing to go GameFAQs Dizzy when arguing her. Which is to be expected with waifu bait + the main issue she realistically has in a fight being her personality.

Gatarix posted...

Dizzy's passive is a huge deal in any terrain that doesn't have the parties directly facing off against each other, because I would see her saying "oh no, a fight, I don't want to have to hurt anyone" and running off to hide. Which in practice means she's not going to be around for any teamfight ever.

Also I agree that personality is a big deal even with the passive removed - like I don't see her willing to nuke enemies ever (barring ability use like Poison).

I don't think it's disingenuous for me to argue "GameFAQs Dizzy" on any terrain because of Poison tho.
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we should call the next iteration of mercs "Gamefaqsmercs" and only include gamefaqs versions of characters


wait
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Poison is a game changer, though I think Dizzy still tries to obey Poison's orders in line with her own personality as much as possible. For instance if Poison just says "Attack!" then I think Dizzy would not immediately go for lethal force (while still obeying the letter of the command).
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