Board 8 > How will you feel if Rey surpasses Luke in The Last Jedi?

(+) Yeah! (+)

And do you think it will happen? I hope it does. Girl power!
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Wouldn't bother me, I think it should happen.
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I would prefer it to happen in the third movie as opposed to the second... and it could be left ambiguous and debatable
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RaidenZeroX posted...

Wouldn't bother me, I think it should happen.

I mean does anyone really want a 60+ year old Mark Hamill trying to laser sword fight?
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Eh, they're generational characters. Doesn't really matter who's stronger than who, it'll probably be left ambiguous

Although if she's not a Skywalker then fuck that.
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The one bizarre thing about Episode 7 was that despite being almost beat for beat copied from ANH, Rey actually defeated Kylo Ren. It put this weird question mark on how much she can really improve from here.
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Build her up to watch her fall to the daaaaaaaaaaaarksiiiiiiiiiiideeeeeeeeee.
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I'd dig it. I don't really care either way, though.

SwiftyDC posted...

Build her up to watch her fall to the daaaaaaaaaaaarksiiiiiiiiiiideeeeeeeeee.

Except this. Please don't do this.
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I'm game for Darth Rey
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will it happen? probably.

will i like it? depends on how it's executed.
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... wait

Luke as in the movies

Or Luke as in in the old Expanded Universe?
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GuessMyUserName posted...

I'm game for Darth Rey

Her fighting style is already eerily similar to Palpatine's. Strong possibility.
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I'll be annoyed, but also not surprised. They've already done irreparable damage to Luke's reputation in TFA--why not finish the job by having some newbie outshine him after a few months of training?
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Turducken posted...

I'll be annoyed, but also not surprised. They've already done irreparable damage to Luke's reputation in TFA--why not finish the job by having some newbie outshine him after a few months of training?

Well to be fair, Luke himself spent maybe a long weekend training with Yoda, compared to the lifetime dedication of guys like Obi-Wan.
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tag
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Luke never impressed me much in the OT. Luke isn't a fighter in his first movie (which is the point), skips out on training to save his friends in the second (which is the point), and outright loses his big climactic fight in the third, only winning by appealing to Vader's goodness (...which is the point). The idea of the super badass Jedi Luke is something invented by other Star Wars properties -- it was never really in the three films.

Rey had been fighting for longer than Luke before she even touched a lightsaber. That's why she could beat people's asses with a staff, whereas Luke had to be saved from a bar fight. Whether she surpasses Luke in legend status is whatever (I don't really expect it), but she's pretty much already stronger than Luke was in ESB and I'd be surprised if she didn't crush his RotJ peak.
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Ambivalent.

Mostly i wont care.
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Kenri posted...

outright loses his big climactic fight in the third

http://customstarwars.x3.hu/film/vader.jpg

This looks like winning to you?
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MrGreenonion posted...

Kenri posted...

outright loses his big climactic fight in the third

http://customstarwars.x3.hu/film/vader.jpg

This looks like winning to you?

I feel like you're forgetting the other guy who was on Team Evil and almost killed them both. <_<
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? She clearly surpassed Luke in TFA

It'll happen, but I hope they wait until a third movie to do it.
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Kenri posted...

MrGreenonion posted...

Kenri posted...

outright loses his big climactic fight in the third

http://customstarwars.x3.hu/film/vader.jpg

This looks like winning to you?

I feel like you're forgetting the other guy who was on Team Evil and almost killed them both. <_<

Yeah but that wasn't a fight. Luke won the fight.
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MrGreenonion posted...

Yeah but that wasn't a fight. Luke won the fight.

I mean, sure.

I guess "he nearly dies outright to one of his enemies in his big climactic scene" is what I mean, "fight" just sounds more pithy.

He definitely beats Vader, but Vader isn't that impressive of a swordfighter in the OT either. (His force abilities are impressive but IIRC he barely uses them against Luke, except to throw shit at him.)
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We're talking about the chick who despite zero force training was able to use the Jedi Mind Trick with small effort.

She's probably already surpassed Luke and with more training will probably be on Emperor levels in no time.
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MrGreenonion posted...

Turducken posted...

I'll be annoyed, but also not surprised. They've already done irreparable damage to Luke's reputation in TFA--why not finish the job by having some newbie outshine him after a few months of training?

Well to be fair, Luke himself spent maybe a long weekend training with Yoda, compared to the lifetime dedication of guys like Obi-Wan.

Sure, this is true. I mean it's assumed he continued his practices in the time frame between Empire and ROTJ, but yeah for actual hands-on training under a proper Jedi, he didn't have a lot. I'd say though it's worth pointing out that in the context of the original trilogy Luke's never really outshining Ben or Yoda (of course Yoda doesn't really do anything than grouse on Swamp World but we don't expect him to).. He manages to not die against Vader for obvious reasons, and then gets turned into a human battery by Palpy. He does well against mooks, but everyone does well against mooks.

Having Rey outstage Luke when he's still able to fight is going to feel pretty unearned to me. Let her be competent, let him be impressed by her skills, let it be blatantly obvious than he sees her as his successor, that's all fine. But if they make it clear that she's on or past his level when Dooku could still whoop ass in his 80s that's going to tarnish Luke more than build her up to me. And Luke's already been through enough of that.
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Turducken posted...

Having Rey outstage Luke when he's still able to fight is going to feel pretty unearned to me. Let her be competent, let him be impressed by her skills, let it be blatantly obvious than he sees her as his successor, that's all fine. But if they make it clear that she's on or past his level when Dooku could still whoop ass in his 80s that's going to tarnish Luke more than build her up to me. And Luke's already been through enough of that.

Got some bad news for you dude
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Hey I said from the jump I wouldn't be surprised.
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Rey needs a heel turn but not to the "dark side". More like a third, new paradigm that unites all force users (and opposes those who wish to stick to the Jedi/Sith duality). She will use both light and dark powers, for her own purposes, not for justice or evil necessarily. She will kill Kylo Ren and also Finn and Luke.

Basically we need a Rey Katarn
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I wouldn't be shocked if Luke is handicapped by his age in the same way Obi-Wan was (and to a lesser extent, Vader). Dooku is kind of a special case in that the prequels were garbage so of course he was still doing a bunch of flips and shit.

But I think it's going to end up a lot like Obi-Wan in A New Hope, where everyone thinks he's their savior but actually he's just some old dude whose main impact will be inspiring the next generation.
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foolm0r0n posted...

Rey needs a heel turn but not to the "dark side". More like a third, new paradigm that unites all force users (and opposes those who wish to stick to the Jedi/Sith duality). She will use both light and dark powers, for her own purposes, not for justice or evil necessarily. She will kill Kylo Ren and also Finn and Luke.

Basically we need a Rey Katarn

They've been creating a lot more "neutral" Jedi lately so I would not be surprised if this is the result.
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How old was Obi-Wan in Episode 4 and how old is Luke in Episode 8?
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TRE Public Account posted...

How old was Obi-Wan in Episode 4 and how old is Luke in Episode 8?

can't speak to the character ages but

alec guinness was 63 when a new hope came out
mark hamill is currently 65
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MariaTaylor posted...

can't speak to the character ages but

alec guinness was 63 when a new hope came out
mark hamill is currently 65

i am legitimately shocked by this
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Some good ideas in here that are hella interesting but waaaaaay too unsafe for them to actually try. Darkside Rey, or Grey Jedi Rey in the vain that foolmo is talking about would be extremely cool but are too "risky".
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Kenri posted...

MariaTaylor posted...

can't speak to the character ages but

alec guinness was 63 when a new hope came out
mark hamill is currently 65

i am legitimately shocked by this

yeah, me too. mark hamill looks a lot younger.
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Also according to a google search that I did not check the sources on, Kenobi was 57 in New Hope and Luke is 53 in Force Awakens.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Some good ideas in here that are hella interesting but waaaaaay too unsafe for them to actually try. Darkside Rey, or Grey Jedi Rey in the vain that foolmo is talking about would be extremely cool but are too "risky".

Only the first movie had to be extremely safe. They have people hooked on the new characters, so they can try new things. Especially since Rogue One wasn't that safe and was well received.
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foolm0r0n posted...

ExThaNemesis posted...

Some good ideas in here that are hella interesting but waaaaaay too unsafe for them to actually try. Darkside Rey, or Grey Jedi Rey in the vain that foolmo is talking about would be extremely cool but are too "risky".

Only the first movie had to be extremely safe. They have people hooked on the new characters, so they can try new things. Especially since Rogue One wasn't that safe and was well received.

But not as well-received as TFA >_>
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SeabassDebeste posted...

The one bizarre thing about Episode 7 was that despite being almost beat for beat copied from ANH, Rey actually defeated Kylo Ren. It put this weird question mark on how much she can really improve from here.

This is always a weird thing to say to me. "TFA copied ANH beat for beat, except for this part where it did something completely different." So... did it actually copy ANH?

Paratroopa1 posted...

SeabassDebeste posted...

The one bizarre thing about Episode 7 was that despite being almost beat for beat copied from ANH, Rey actually defeated Kylo Ren. It put this weird question mark on how much she can really improve from here.

This is always a weird thing to say to me. "TFA copied ANH beat for beat, except for this part where it did something completely different." So... did it actually copy ANH?

Nah, there's obvious parallels, because Vader is defeated by a combination of two protagonists during the Death Star trench run and Kylo Ren is defeated by a combination of two protagonists in a snowy laser fight.

Vader's victory was killing short-term mentor Obi-Wan, just like Kylo Ren killed short-term mentor Han Solo.
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There's definitely a lot of parallels between TFA and ANH, some pretty eye-rolling, but I just think it's funny to say that it's a copy, except for like one of the most climactic moments of the film which is totally different

TheRock1525 posted...

Nah, there's obvious parallels, because...

I realize most people in this thread have likely seen both, but you still might want to spoiler tag most of this or I reckon some overzealous ninny will call you on it.
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Not going to spoiler tag a 1.5 year old movie.
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If Rey turns to the Dark Side, Luke is gonna look like such a chump.

> tries to revive Jedi Order, one student turns to the Dark Side and slaughters the rest
> becomes a hermit
> comes out of retirement to train another student
> that student turns to the Dark Side too
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Luke has never struck me as a powerful jedi in the OT

dunno nothin about the EU
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I'm not sure about "power", he's not made out to be a great fighter or anything but Luke is definitely shown to be well in tune with the Force.

The OT just isn't action packed enough for power feats.
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I'm guessing Rey will in fact become something neither Jedi nor Sith but greater than both.

The teaser points pretty strongly in that direction. Luke's lines about it being so much bigger than the balance and it being time for the Jedi to end have me thinking that. Might be misdirection maybe but we'll see.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

The one bizarre thing about Episode 7 was that despite being almost beat for beat copied from ANH, Rey actually defeated Kylo Ren. It put this weird question mark on how much she can really improve from here.

I mean, dude took a bowcaster shot to the stomach beforehand. He wasn't exactly fighting at 100%.
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VintageGin posted...

SeabassDebeste posted...

The one bizarre thing about Episode 7 was that despite being almost beat for beat copied from ANH, Rey actually defeated Kylo Ren. It put this weird question mark on how much she can really improve from here.

I mean, dude took a bowcaster shot to the stomach beforehand. He wasn't exactly fighting at 100%.

And he was trying to take her in alive per Snoke's orders which would make fighting even harder for him.
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Also he's pretty much using a cracked khyber crystal.

Lightsabers are hard enough to move as it is (while the blade technically has no weight, it's resistant to motion, so you actually do need a measure of strength to move it) and behave more like chainsaws of plasma energy than frozen light. His cracked crystal makes the energy unstable and the blade's the size of a frigging claymore.

Meanwhile, Rey's been fighting with a cool stick and fights with a lightsaber in the same way you'd expect a quarterstaff specialist to fight if you suddenly gave them a sword.

All in all, the odds were pretty much stacked in her favor. Faster weapon, has probably been lowkey using the force her entire life without realizing it (Luke was a bit more coddled growing up in that regard, though he could shoot wampa rats with startling accuracy, so there's that), Kylo Ren is wounded, and he has to capture her alive. Not that Kylo Ren is a slouch - he's using tried and true lightsaber forms and is drawing upon the dark side, taking advantage of a disadvantage (pain fuels the dark side, hence why you see him pounding the blaster bolt wound).

Like all in all, Kylo Ren is a whiny fanboy who wants so badly to be Darth Vader and doesn't measure up to him - and that's precisely what makes him a fairly dangerous villain, because this is the universe where angst is literally power, and unlike Darth Vader, he doesn't have the grace and experience to control his anger and so his tantrums are just as devastating to his side as they are to the enemy's.

Like, he's pretty much what you'd get if you took a deconstruction and then proceeded to play it completely straight, without playing off of the fact that it's a deconstruction. It's low-key brilliant. Or perhaps I'm just over analyzing it.
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