Lurker > darkphoenix181

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z77JFw2D6f8

This world will pass away yes.

Matthew 6
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

What is the first thought that comes to your mind?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/7/8/AAL8Z2AAC3E2.jpg

dawwww

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPp8_4qTucE

Do you pray to a god, a deity, or do you stand euphoric in your own enlightened intelligence?

Real trick is there is no trick. If they really like you, you can make tons of little mistakes and it won't be a dealbreaker.
Even some big ones, as long as you show willingness to fix them.

Size matters as many women have experienced what they call too big

some translations have it say

the love of money is root of all manner of evil

https://biblehub.com/1_timothy/6-10.htm

but the point shouldn't be lost that the love of money motivates one to be tempted to do all sorts of evil

Gendo: That boy ain't right

Maybe he has compassion on the daughter cause he knows her mom too well.

keeping up with the jones, just a year or so ago $100k been the number

but of course inflation is crazy

Behold a man who lived his life just to live in ease and luxury. By the Christian doctrine, he is condemned:

15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
22 And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.

What is wrong with building a big retirement fund and enjoying your life?

Well, Jesus finds it wrong because his claim is this:
a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

Ephesians 2
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Titus 2
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Basically hording money is not really good works to Jesus. He said as much when he was not impressed by the rich people donating great wealth to God via the temple collection:

Luke 21
1 And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, 2 and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites.[a] 3 So He said, Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all; 4 for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings [b]for God, but she out of her poverty put in all the livelihood that she had.

Ironically, many Christians believe their pursuit of riches is justified if they plan on donating wealth to their churches. Yet, if that were so, then why did Jesus not commend these men?

Alternatively Jesus whole condemning riches did say it was not impossible for a rich man to convert:

Mark 10
25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

We actually know what he is referring to however as many rich in the early church liberally gave away their wealth for no other reason than that the Christians in Jerusalem might continue to learn from the apostles.

Acts 4
34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Infact a couple was greedy and got punished by death as an example for it:

Acts 5
But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

Yes, his crime was lying to the Holy Spirit, he did not have to sell his land, but greed and pride is what motivated him to lie to the Holy Spirit.

However, suppose a man with great wealth decided in his heart to not participate in this and he saw his brother in need but refused.
This man would have erred for he would love money. This is what most Christians who say "riches aren't evil, loving them is" do today.

For who is my neighbor? The man who needs to GET A JOB and get off his LAZY BUTT?
Is THAT my neighbor? NO!

Right?

Nevertheless, the idea of just general charity being something that proves you do not love money is also false. Much charity today is done for 2 things.

1. Tax write off
2. Appear righteous before man like the Pharisees

Infact the Pharisees would do this very thing to be seen of men.

There is much complexity and nuance to the issue, but the bottom line is most who claim they do not love money infact spend all their days pursuing it, and they rarely will let it go even when it is for a good cause.

Sad_Face posted...

Let me rephrase since I misspoke. If I choose not to go the path Jesus spoke of, this doesn't imply that I love money, it's that I chose not to take his route to become perfect.

You misunderstand.

The man wasn't asking Jesus how to be perfect, he was asking how to be a Christian.

Matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Jesus reply here means complete, not perfection in the sense we usually see it as today.
The man just wanted eternal life.

Same is used elsewhere:

2 timothy 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

This isn't extra you can choose to just not do, this is the basics.

If you say "I choose not to go that route" you made the same choice as the rich young ruler, yes, you love money.
But I am sure you can find a pastor that could lie about it make you feel good.

Sad_Face posted...

He said if you want to be perfect, not if you don't love money.

What do you think that means?

Sad_Face posted...

Because I don't want to burn money, I must love money. This doesn't make sense. I don't understand why there would be only 2 options here.

I am sure this is what the rich young ruler thought as he departed Jesus sorrowfully.

Matthew 19
20 The young man said to Him, All these things I have (I)kept [d]from my youth. What do I still lack?
21 Jesus said to him, If you want to be perfect, (J)go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

This is burning money right? This wouldn't even help those poor people right? Teach a man to fish, etc.

Put simply, a man who keeps his money because he says things your last post said, is love of money. Raises don't bankrupt companies, they bankrupt profits. Charities aren't perfect, but they help people. Elon sitting on his wealth infact actually is a net negative for the world.

Jesus proved what he meant by the good samaritan.

Luke 10
35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. Look after him, he said, and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.
36 Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?

What if the man stayed at the inn for months?
The good samaritan didn't care about burning money, he cared about PEOPLE.

The workers in the plant walked in turned 1 degree and walked out.

g980 posted...

do you think physical labor is the only labor that creates value?

What labor are they doing that is worth billions? The great irony is what is often argued as the value these people at the top of companies provide is making up ways to not pay their employees and exploit them further. Things like removing retirement benefits and eliminating jobs.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/0/5/AAL8Z2AACza5.jpg

@g980

PrsdntHeidecker posted...

It's not untrue and it is an important clarification. Money is an inanimate tool that society uses to organize. Greed is what really makes things ugly, and greed is what is in the hearts of people. Greed is what you need to use self control to manage.

Being an agnostic person that just pays attention to themes in story telling, it's explicitly obvious here no one is using this as a "Gotcha!" and TC is just misinterpreting discussion about self control and greed.

The clarification exists because extremely wealthy people who got converted if just having money was a sin, would then not be able to be Christians.
However, once converted, acting as they did before and pursuing the wealth, would make the verse ring true that they indeed love money.

And so it goes today where the #1 thing in the lives of many who say God is #1, is actually pursuing a life of riches and luxury. If that is what they desire, then from a secular perspective, there is nothing wrong.
From a Christian perspective, there is much wrong.
But they will gladly explain why it is not wrong by saying it is the LOVE of money that is evil, and they do not love it, despite devoting their days to pursuing it.

See this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Ramsey

In 2014, The Daily Beast reported that Ramsey had lashed out against former employees he claimed were discussing working conditions at the company on Facebook and Twitter. At company staff meetings, Ramsey allegedly recounted conversations from a private Facebook group of former employees that he had infiltrated, eventually offering cash rewards for the identities of some members who took to anonymous Twitter accounts once they realized Ramsey had joined the private group. The incident prompted increased backlash, a meeting Ramsey set up to confront alleged critics, and the eventual deletion of several of the critical Twitter accounts.[18]

Why would a man who DOES NOT LOVE money, lash out against employees discussing working conditions and stalk them on social media?

In addition, first thing I think of when I hear his name is not "super charitable Christian man" but a dude who talks about money way too much.

Unsugarized_Foo posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/0/8/AAIpQ1AACzZY.jpg

You must mean this man

Thanks. Odd that first post is a guy acting like I made this up.

Jesus: "The love of money is the root of ALL EVIL."

Wow, that is pretty condemning.

Christians" WAIT WAIT! HOLD A MINUTE! See here sir, look, it say THE LOVE of money! THE LOVE of money! NOT MONEY!"

Ok, I guess you can explain to Jesus when he asks why you bought a lambo?

Inb4, Jesus didn't say that was just his lowly apostle or w/e.

g980 posted...

If i would have bren willing to pay $10k to fix my toilet but a plumber only charged me $200, did i just exploit that plumber?

Do you pay millions of dollars to prevent plumbers from unionizing every year like Walmart does with its workforce?

Damn_Underscore posted...

No, because there are plenty of businesses, no matter which type of business you're looking for, that treat their workers fine. If that is a concern to you you don't have to shop at Walmart or Amazon, etc. And in the near future we have the strong possibility of workers that are typically treated poorly (such as retail workers and restaurant workers) being replaced by AI.

Now if you are implying that capitalism is inherently evil or a failed system and we must abandon it, I'm going to respond with a hearty lolno

Exploitation is not about how you TREAT workers, it is about how much they are paid in relation to the profits that you obtain from said labor.
Walmart is extremely profitable.

Damn_Underscore posted...

I never said any of that. I said So you think financial markets are a pyramid scheme? Ok, I disagree with you but...

I thought your point was that these investments aren't worth it.

Then you agree that capitalism necessitates an exploited worker class?
yes or no ??

Damn_Underscore posted...

No? I'm saying that if you think Walmart's business model is basically hanging on a thread because they treat their employees badly and all the employees have to do is not take it anymore, then you shouldn't invest in them and you won't have to worry about that.

Just to give an example, the most expensive stock I own is a Google share and it has only increased in value since I bought it. I don't know what will happen to Google in the next few decades, but I'm pretty confident that mass strikes will never be an issue for them.

Also one reason why it's a good idea to invest in ETFs or mutual funds is that you don't have to worry about single businesses failing and the only way you'll go broke is basically if the economy as we know it collapses.

Ah, so you are trying to avoid the question and change what we are talking about.

YOU said: capitalism doesn't necessitate an exploited worker class

I asked: Do the owners of Walmart do the work themselves? If not, how do they make money?

So, when a Walmart makes a ton of profit, where exactly does the labor for that profit come from and how is it profitable?

COVxy posted...

Loooll. No, this comes out of grant money or the PI's pocket.

I do not work in this field. Does that mean your salary?
If so, sounds like professors\researchers should start pushing on Universitys to pick up these costs by organizing.

Won't the university pay for you anyways?

Why are you leaving?

Damn_Underscore posted...

The way Walmart treats its workers is considered in its share valuation tho. In fact if you think that Walmart's business model isn't sustainable because all the employees could just walk out one day, them don't invest in them.

What? You are saying all their employees can quit and they would still be making loads of money?

Sad_Face posted...

This why the condition of loving money is explicitly made as it leads to one willing to compromise on their morals to make a quick buck and this is the slippery slope that leads to the corruption we see now.

This is how business in general works. Why do you not give all your employees who did a good job a huge raise? Because you love money.

The argument you are putting forth just doesn't work. Most who amass loads of wealth do infact love money. If they do not, then in addition to giving it away freely to help people in need, they would also for example give burger flippers $30+ an hour, let people live freely in their properties, etc.

But that seems INSANE to do, right? Why? Because.... you would be LOSING money. Which means you do love money. As such, Jesus did say with God it is possible for the rich man to be a Christian, but we find what he means elsewhere when he asks a rich man to give all he has to the poor.

monkeysRfunny posted...

Whats the third word in that bible verse you just quoted?

Sad_Face posted...

Key phrase there: "love of money".

i find this an interesting conversation. What do you define as the love of money if you cannot say people pursuing more wealth than they could ever spend do not love money?

What this boils down to is that many Christians disagree with Jesus and say it is impossible to love money. Or can you explain how one can love money?

@monkeykid453
@Sad_Face

Damn_Underscore posted...

Ok... I don't agree with you,

How do the people who own walmart make money?
Do they sit in a store themselves, stock the shelves, crunch the numbers all themselves?

He will find more actresses to date by doing this.

What was the post about?